If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Some Guy)   Insurance companies to start putting implantable microchips in policy holders. Nope, nothing could possibly go wrong here or the bars you're hanging out in a lot lately, Drinky McDrinker   (starttherevolution.org) divider line 62
    More: Scary  
•       •       •

11418 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Jul 2006 at 1:10 PM (7 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



62 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all
 
2006-07-16 10:51:30 AM
For example, diabetics with low blood sugar may become confused or unconscious.

Have these people NEVER heard of a medical bracelet? All the diabetics I know wear (As well as people with other conditions.) one and they work great. Even better, you don't need a special reader to find the info.(IE: Joe Dumbcrap can read it and put 2+2 together and have an idea of what is wrong.) You just look at the bracelet. RFID tags are highly overrated and vulnerable to damage from EMF and EMP. Not to mention an MRI will probably toast those suckers. These companies are just looking to peddle their wares.
 
2006-07-16 11:27:12 AM
Horizon Blue Cross and Blue Shield of New Jersey

So THAT's why I have a lump where the doctor gave me a shot.
 
2006-07-16 12:35:06 PM
Idiocy.

Idiocy.
 
2006-07-16 12:42:09 PM
"And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name."
Revelation, 13. 17

Kinda makes you wonder some times....

Religious objections aside, I just don't like the thought of slimebag insurance goons having an easy way to track people. They *will* abuse that sort information system. You can make book on that.
 
2006-07-16 01:13:23 PM
hmmmm, im with horizon BCBS new jersey, and a diabetic to boot... would lmao if they started to make this project more wide-spread
 
QBJ
2006-07-16 01:13:41 PM
Does anyone have a website on how to make a good tinfoil hat?
 
2006-07-16 01:14:32 PM
"Vice President and Chief Medical Officer Richard Popiel"

??

img133.imageshack.us
Is Ronco Branching Out?

//Still trying to get a refund on that Salad Shooter.
 
2006-07-16 01:16:23 PM
"TFA" "needs" "more" "scare quotes."
 
2006-07-16 01:17:00 PM
I worked for one of the largest insurance companies in the country for some time and must say- they are this fricking evil.

If you don't think they're making every inroad to screw consumers over for profit, then you don't know the industry. I saw enough questionable practice to never look back after quitting.
 
2006-07-16 01:17:29 PM
An MRI will rip them out of their skin.
 
2006-07-16 01:21:42 PM
Crosshair: Have these people NEVER heard of a medical bracelet? All the diabetics I know wear (As well as people with other conditions.) one and they work great. Even better, you don't need a special reader to find the info.(IE: Joe Dumbcrap can read it and put 2+2 together and have an idea of what is wrong.) You just look at the bracelet. RFID tags are highly overrated and vulnerable to damage from EMF and EMP. Not to mention an MRI will probably toast those suckers. These companies are just looking to peddle their wares.

I have a diabetic friend with a tattoo on the inside of his forearm. Just as cheap and effective as a bracelet, can never be lost and doesn't need a scanner to be read.
 
2006-07-16 01:24:16 PM
Insurance means you're placing a bet with someone that something bad's going to happen to you. Either way, you lose.
 
2006-07-16 01:25:06 PM
That IS some scary shiat. If you have that insurance for a time (let's say through your employer) and you have high blood pressure or go through rehab, whatever...good luck ever getting group or private insurance again without paying through the nose or refusing to pay bills even remotely associated with a pre-existing condition.

I don't think the article mentioned it, but I'm certain all this data will go into the industry's national database.
 
2006-07-16 01:26:58 PM
Sombody's been watching House, eh, bullock.?

But seriously isn't this great news? Next, all carriers will start doing this, then insurance coverage will be made mandatory. Then the gubmint will "borrow" their surveillance codes. We can someday whisper to our disbelieving kids and grandkids about what privacy used to be. (but verrry quiety)

/great now I've got to go buy another roll of foil
//if the hat fits...
 
2006-07-16 01:28:20 PM
This headline hurts my brain.

/didn't RTFA
 
2006-07-16 01:30:33 PM
So there they are, in the emergency room, where every second counts.... and they are scanning everyone all over just in case they might be part of a test program - instead of TREATING THE PATIENT!

Times like this I wish I was a lawyer.

/could buy a private island with the take from a case like that
//would probably make all the natives wear chips
///can't have them stealing my liquor
 
2006-07-16 01:33:05 PM
What's the range of these implantable chips? From how far away can you read them?

If you can read them from a distance then there are truely evil possibilities for this tech as well, running from identity theft to proximity triggered bombs. (e.g. the bomb only detonates when a threshold number of people of a certain religion, ethnicity, etc wander into its detection range.)
 
2006-07-16 01:35:20 PM
I for one, welcome our claims adjustment, risk underwriting and acturial table writing overlords....
 
2006-07-16 01:38:30 PM
Purple Hayes


Sombody's been watching House, eh, bullock.?

I've never seen the show. CNN/Comedy Central only.

/Insurance adjudicator.
 
2006-07-16 01:43:03 PM
Crosshair
Have these people NEVER heard of a medical bracelet? All the diabetics I know wear (As well as people with other conditions.) one and they work great. Even better, you don't need a special reader to find the info.(IE: Joe Dumbcrap can read it and put 2+2 together and have an idea of what is wrong.) You just look at the bracelet. RFID tags are highly overrated and vulnerable to damage from EMF and EMP. Not to mention an MRI will probably toast those suckers. These companies are just looking to peddle their wares.

While I agree with your points about the MRI and the companies just looking to peddle their wares and generally trying to sell a solution where there is no problem, I think that you might have isunderstood the purpose of these chips.

If I understand this right and the people behind this are not completly stupid this is not actually meant as an alternative to a medical barclet. The ships function is to carry around the patients medical files with him. (or perhaps to carry around his ID so they can look up his medical info on a shaired database.)

It is supposed to help with patients who are likely to be uncommunicative because things like diabetis or general geriatric problems. When they get rolled into the ER and the nurse starts asking questions like "Sir what is your name?", "Where are you insured?", "When was the last time you got x-rayed in that leg?" or "Are you alergic to anything we might give you?". Tha patient might not always be capable of answering and the staff wastes time doing identifying him getting his records, doing tests and diagnostics that they would not need toif they could just look it up and genrally wasting their time.

A chip implant might be overkill for this. A chipcard would do just the same if the patient can be trained to keep it with him in his wallet at all times. It also would only work if the underlying IT-infrastructure actually works. For a good example on how not to do that look at England. You of course will still need competent users so the particpating doctors and hospitals really can manage to share their info usefully.
 
2006-07-16 01:43:58 PM
I miss the good ol' days when it was 'The practice of medicine' and not the 'business of medicine' like it is today.

Coming next year, the follow up story on how insurance lobbiest have pushed for a new law requiring everyone to get the implants and a stiff penalty if the chip is removed. The law will have the chip implanted in new borns and the rest of the population installed over time.
 
2006-07-16 01:44:59 PM
What's wrong with this? It alleviates moral hazard. I'm sure there will be plenty of non-chip alternative policies, just at higher rates because it'll be full of tinfoil-hat paranoids and people trying to defraud the system.

Unless there was a demonstratable risk that the chip data was insecure, I would happily submit to being chipped to save money.
 
2006-07-16 01:45:26 PM
NutWrench
the bomb only detonates when a threshold number of people of a certain religion, ethnicity, etc wander into its detection range.

woah... how long have you been sititng on that idea?
 
2006-07-16 01:46:27 PM
Insurance means you're placing a bet with someone that something bad's going to happen to you. Either way, you lose.

Unless you live in Canada, you pretty much NEED health insurance of some kind. They'll start it off with cases that are hard to argue against, like the diabetics, but what worries people is where this could go. What if they start offering VOLUNTARY implants to poorer patients as a means to get a healthy discount on coverage? "We need to make sure that you aren't engaged in dangerous activities that would cancel your coverage in order to give you these great rates".

Then what if coverage without the implant gets expensive....

I have strong doubts that the people could be made to accept mass implantations without ridiculous unrest (which pretty much defeats the purpose), but OTOH I used to be of a mind that I would have thrown away a book in disgust that had the U.S. government take away rights and freedoms under a so-called "Patriot act".

Get real, author, nobody would fall for something that blatant and unsubtle. Will they call the legislation that allows the police state in chapter 8 the "Mom act" so they can ask dissenters why they hate Mom so much? LOL

But even still, implants are more than a step beyond. The Merkin people would start shooting at shiat.
 
2006-07-16 01:56:32 PM
so if someone were to run around with a magnet, could the data be influenced in any way ?

////just asking
 
2006-07-16 01:56:45 PM
The hope is that the chips will help doctors avoid medical errors like duplicating medical tests, dangerous drug interactions and bad diagnoses.

I like how duplicating medical tests is listed first, least they got there priorities straight.
 
2006-07-16 02:01:25 PM
Remember you have no rights anymore folks. It's just like with driver's licenses. They'll make everything depend on it so you have to get it if you want to have a life. Insurance isn't a right, it's a privilege.
 
2006-07-16 02:04:26 PM
So what happens if I wave a big ol' rare Earth magnet over the implant? Will that toast it, or is it a ROM-like thing with the data literally burned into it?
 
2006-07-16 02:07:07 PM
jesusandeinstein: woah... how long have you been sititng on that idea?

People made the logical connection about twenty minutes after RFID technology was first announced.
 
2006-07-16 02:07:30 PM
rickrat:

so if someone were to run around with a magnet, could the data be influenced in any way ?

////just asking




They'll start selling these little gizmos everywhere from ebay to head shops for $15 apiece that you just have to put a few AA batteries in it, turn it on and then point it at the general area where the chip is located and it will EMP/fizzle it out. Fark the man. Just short it out and tell them to go fark themselves if they dont like it. Whenever they create a technology, the techno wizzes will invent something within a few weeks to short it out (like DVD and CD copying technology).

And if they say they dont like that their chip no longer tracks where you are, then suggest that you would like to put your own microchip into their arm so you can keep track of what they're up to.
 
2006-07-16 02:09:13 PM
gradatim
In my experience the data is not on the chip, just a number which is entered into a database and that is where the files are. A magnet will not do much other than maybe rip the chip out. If you work in a building where you use a little fob or card that you wave in front of the door/box on wall to get in this is basically the same thing.
 
2006-07-16 02:16:22 PM
Ratio of Cake: So there they are, in the emergency room, where every second counts.... and they are scanning everyone all over just in case they might be part of a test program - instead of TREATING THE PATIENT!

I have no problem with this program as long as it's voluntary.... mandatory would be kind of shady.
 
2006-07-16 02:17:11 PM
Goodfella
To be tracked by these things you would have to place it within inches of a reader every where you went. So until they start placing readers everywhere and forcing you too walk past them, this is not much of a real danger. The easiest way around this is not some new tech but to just remove it. They are inserted just below the skin. It is not much more complicated than removing a splinter.
 
2006-07-16 02:17:48 PM
img161.imageshack.us
 
2006-07-16 02:21:02 PM
This is awesome. Why.. because alot of times paramedics and ER doctors do not look at your braclet..they look at whatever is bleeding profusely first or broken in half-you get my drift.
Seriously. It's a good thing. Only if it scans you as you are going in though.
 
2006-07-16 02:36:03 PM
Insurance companies have always been more than willing to implement the plan of the devil. why RFID instead of bio-metric? Because there are RFID chips in credit cards and many other places. Soon the credit card RFID will merge with this as a 'convenience' measure. You know to make life simpler. You will use it instead of a badge at door scanners. It will be a replacement for Photo ID. Just give it time. If not in the USA first then some other technically advanced society without privacy and a facist government. I predict it will happen in the UK first. Fewer christians with fewer people to object. Look here, there is a smooth slope with grease on it!
 
2006-07-16 02:37:03 PM
How many times are people going to try to turn this old news into some kind of tin foil hat conspiracy?
 
2006-07-16 02:45:39 PM
2006-07-16 01:44:59 PM xX hhallahh Xx

Unless there was a demonstratable risk that the chip data was insecure, I would happily submit to being chipped to save money.


I'll help you out then. There is a demonstrable risk that data on RFID chips is insecure.
You could do a literature search on acm.org (I believe you can read abstracts and titles, anyway) to get an idea of just how intractable are the problems of securing data when potential attackers have regular access to the devices on which they are secured.
The only reason there have been no serious breaches related to RFID is that data worth stealing has not been placed on them yet.
 
2006-07-16 02:47:34 PM
Rev. Dave:
Where are credit cards produced using RFID? The US still uses magnetic striping and Europe uses smartcards. I'm not aware of RFID being used anywhere.
 
2006-07-16 02:53:04 PM
A lot of people are bashing insurance companies. What you do not understand is that the effort is to weed out the predatory doctors and conversion disorder wiener patients. YOU PAY FOR THEIR BEHAVIOR.

/short rant.
 
2006-07-16 02:56:55 PM
Great. I fall on the side against these RFID chips, which means I have to put up with a bunch of religious nutsos at the same time.

It ain't the devil doing this, folks, just good old greedy capitalists. Then the government.
 
2006-07-16 03:00:54 PM
MacGabhain
Most credit card companies are re-issuing your card with an RFID. The visa Blink is one. Most movie theatres and some pay at the pumps have them now. You wave your wallet in front of them and it scans. Its short range like badges. You would also be surprised what data is stored on track 3 of many state issued driver's licenses. Stuff like past addresses and aliases. I used to work for a company who did Point of Sale development so I know a sick amount of details about credit processing. Although I never worked with the RFID I imagine that it communicates a code that can be translated rather than your raw credit card number like debit cards. Credit companies are getting better at preventing fraud so it surely is more secure than the magnetic stripe, but it probably can be copied by scanning it. Thieves have access to card makers so they may already know how to duplicate RFID. Evil is only a step behind the latest innovation.
 
2006-07-16 03:19:34 PM
Uncle Karl

Those cards that you wave near a cardreader to open a door can be ruined by a rare Earth magnet. At least mine can. (I don't know if it erases the number, or what, but it definitely farks something up.)
 
2006-07-16 03:24:41 PM
mmagdalene: "That IS some scary shiat. If you have that insurance for a time (let's say through your employer) and you have high blood pressure or go through rehab, whatever...good luck ever getting group or private insurance again without paying through the nose or refusing to pay bills even remotely associated with a pre-existing condition."

So, it's OK if YOU lie, cheat and perpetrate fraud for personal gain, but not the insurance co.?
(Not defending the Ins.Co, I just love the pious double standard)
 
2006-07-16 03:35:12 PM
This is just Not Good. Especially since, having temped for a Blue Cross, I know that most of their employees are morans (as in "635 - 20 = 635" was a common error, and apparently none of them had heard of a semicolon) and their computers are astonishingly obsolete.

There are legitimate medical reasons to put RFID implants in people - people with alzheimers who are prone to wandering away from their nursing homes, for instance. But if they just want something mandatory for chronic diseases, they should require medic-alert bracelets and/or wallet cards - it's not like emergency personnel don't already look for those.
 
2006-07-16 03:41:58 PM
fark that, I don't need be constantly traced by anyone. And what about the religious wackos, won't they be going on and on about the number of the beast or some such shiat? While i hate to agree with the religious wackos on anything I am 100% against any type of chipping. Oh and a hint to anyone who gets chipped and has second thoughts, its just below the skin, you can either short it out with a magnet or if you have a good pain threshold just cut it out of you. If you choose the cut option I would strongly suggest having someone with medical knowledge there to help you out so you don't bleed to death like a moron.
 
2006-07-16 04:13:24 PM
Slow down, hombres - it's not a tracking chip.

2006-07-16 02:09:13 PM Uncle Karl

In my experience the data is not on the chip, just a number which is entered into a database and that is where the files are.


Thanks for saving me the trouble of typing that.

As for the rest of you, slowly put down the tin foil hat and back away from the computer screen.
 
2006-07-16 04:39:48 PM
Where's the "consent" factor? Anyone with a reader and access to the data can view your entire medical history, without obtaining your consent. By accepting the chip, you consent to the data's access by emergency medical personnel, and that's how it should work, but not all personnel with access to the data and the reader are emergency personnel - thousands of non-emergency personnel have access to the database across the industry - strangers every last one of them. Those people having access to my data without my express consent is why I won't consent to being chipped.

It's the same thing with VeriChip's child chipping program, which allegedly tracks your child to ensure he/she hasn't been abducted by an evil pedophile or angry boyfriend. Who has access to the data in VeriChip's databases? They're all strangers regardless of their position in the company, so for parents to grant a bunch of strangers permission to track their children is BEGGING for trouble.
 
2006-07-16 04:52:59 PM
Whenever I need REAL news, I turn to Starttherevolution.org
 
2006-07-16 04:56:45 PM
I just have to laugh at everybody who thinks this can be used for tracking.

If you're so PARANOID about strangers tracking your every move: you'd better get rid of your CELL PHONE. Using the cellular network alone you can tracked to within a few hundred meters. Add GPS into the mix with newer phones...

The company essentially knows where you are all the time while the gadget is on (and what you're talking about on the phone, duh).

But it's not like they're gonna go give that info away without a warrant, right....wait.
 
Displayed 50 of 62 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all



This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report