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(National Review)   "In this war, there is no meaningful distinction between Iran and Syria, they work in tandem"   (article.nationalreview.com) divider line 66
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1141 clicks; posted to Politics » on 13 Jul 2006 at 11:51 AM (7 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2006-07-13 09:01:14 AM
Wow. A warmongering PNAC-er? I'm stunned.
 
2006-07-13 09:07:41 AM
Considering the stunning success we're seeing in Iraq, just imagine the progress we'll see in Syria and Iran.
 
2006-07-13 09:10:52 AM
I never thought Syria was worthy of enemy status. They were always more of a Soviet proxy state.

Now China, there's an enemy worth picking on. Too bad we owe them so much cash.
 
2006-07-13 09:14:26 AM
My God is Michael Ledeen a douchebag.

Jesus Christ, is there any shady dealing or this asshole hasn't had his hand in?
 
2006-07-13 09:34:37 AM
Marcus Aurelius
Now China, there's an enemy worth picking on. Too bad we owe them so much cash.

Meh, money aside, I'd like to avoid a conflict with China unless absoloutley neccessary. I mean, they do outnumber us by what? 3 to 1?
 
2006-07-13 09:38:59 AM
Is it time to call it WWIII yet?
 
2006-07-13 09:43:22 AM
Tatsuma: Is it time to call it WWIII yet?

Almost. But I say we need to spice it up a bit. How about W:W:III? or World War III: Reign of Chaos?
 
2006-07-13 09:59:27 AM
Is it time to call it WWIII yet?

No.
 
2006-07-13 10:10:33 AM
World War III: Atomic Boogaloo
 
2006-07-13 10:27:19 AM
W's War.
 
2006-07-13 10:59:07 AM
Iran is partly behind this, they want to distract the world from the nuclear stand off that is playing out in the UN.

If the UN is busy with this shiat they won't have time to haul Iran in front of the Security Council for their nuclear research.
 
2006-07-13 11:47:19 AM
Preposterous.

Why aren't these shrill shills ever called out as the conspiracy-theorist that they are?

On second thought, Ledeen's record is one of being more of a liar than a paranoid. As someone said upthread, he's a commissar for the PNAC.
 
2006-07-13 11:59:17 AM
Syria doesn't really work in tandem with anyone.

They just take money and guns from anyone, and pass them to other nasty folks.
 
2006-07-13 12:10:54 PM
kanyon

Every US president needs a big scary foreign enemy. If they don't have one, they have to make one up.
 
2006-07-13 12:17:32 PM
2wolves
W's War, too.

See, by saying Syria == Iran, then when Iran doesn't back down from enriching Uranium, we can lay the smack down on another feeble, non-threat of a country and pretend we're reining in Iran.
 
2006-07-13 12:17:40 PM
In a 2003 column entitled "A Theory," Ledeen outlined a possibility that France and Germany, both NATO allies of the United States, "struck a deal with radical Islam and with radical Arabs" to use "extremism and terrorism as the weapon of choice" to bring down a potential American Empire.

Wow. And this guy has the ear of the White House?
 
2006-07-13 12:20:29 PM
Blues_X: Wow. And this guy has the ear of the White House?

This surprises you?
 
2006-07-13 12:20:38 PM
See, by saying Syria == Iran, then when Iran doesn't back down from enriching Uranium, we can lay the smack down on another feeble, non-threat of a country and pretend we're reining in Iran.

It worked once. Why not?
 
2006-07-13 12:21:30 PM
Remember that the point of the Sept 11th attacks was to provoke a widespread war between Islam and the west.

So far, the neocons have been remarkably successful at giving bin Laden exactly what he wants.
 
2006-07-13 12:30:14 PM
uh_clem
Remember that the point of the Sept 11th attacks was to provoke a widespread war between Islam and the west.
So far, the neocons have been remarkably successful at giving bin Laden exactly what he wants.


You're right. Because the terrorists are Islamic we should not oppose or fight them.
 
2006-07-13 12:32:19 PM
Interesting theory I read this morning:

"Note the releatively muted US and -so far- European condemnation of Israel's actions against Hamas.
Now Israel is moving against Hezbollah, after Hezbollah launched attacks on northern Israel and captured two Israeli soldiers.
Two quick theories:
Thoery One: Iranian insanity on nukes has tried European patience. Hezbollah is a financial creature of Tehran.
Theory Two, cast as a fair question: Have the Egyptians, Fatah, Saudis, and Lebanese
governments given Israel an implicit go-ahead? The strategem: Reduce
these violent factions (Hamas and Hezbollah) and then every one will re-set the chess table."

http://austinbay.net/blog/?p=1288
 
2006-07-13 12:32:20 PM
I see a lot of theory and wild conjecture. Need it also be reminded that the US and UK actively went into Iran and crushed its democratic movement in favor of a religious tyrant that served Western business interests?

/karma's a biatch
 
2006-07-13 12:38:26 PM
I can't wait till we invade Syranaqistan!
 
2006-07-13 12:39:52 PM
IHateHipHop:

I see a lot of theory and wild conjecture. Need it also be reminded that the US and UK actively went into Iran and crushed its democratic movement in favor of a religious tyrant that served Western business interests?

Afghanistan was the same, then we supported Saddam against Iran. It is like some bad science fiction novel where you bring in a bigger species to eat the one that is giving you problems currently with no thought about what that species is going to end up doing. It is some stupid vicious GOP foreign policy nightmare.
 
2006-07-13 12:40:52 PM
Of course we are also backing warlords in Somolia and a dictator in Pakistan... Shouldn't foreign policy have some type of 5, 10, 25 year type thinking about it?
 
2006-07-13 12:43:47 PM
Wow the wikipedia article is really not painting a very nice picture of this guy. I guess his involvement in Iran-Contra is pretty much beyond debate and he does seem like the most liekly candidate for the source of the Yellow-Cake fakes, if you believe that they were actually originally created by an american interest group. The way they hint at his possible involment in the attempted assasination of the pope is a bit more fishy and the quote they give of him are not selected to give a very balanced picture of him.

"the level of casualties (in Iraq) is secondary"
"we are a warlike people (Americans)...we love war"
"Change--above all violent change--is the essence of human history"
"the only way to achieve peace is through total war"
"The purpose of total war is to permanently force your will onto another people"
"Every ten years or so, the United States needs to pick up some small crappy little country and throw it against the wall, just to show the world we mean business"


I guess between what he openly says and what can be proven that he actually did this guy really is a very dangerous asshole.
 
2006-07-13 12:48:31 PM
AgeOfReason: Shouldn't foreign policy have some type of 5, 10, 25 year type thinking about it?

But a presidential term is only 4 years long! ;)

Seriously, though, the problem with foreign policy is that all sorts of random stuff gets thrown in all the time. It's not a science, where you can model weather patterns several years down the line. It's practically impossible to predict what people around the world will do and their reactions to it. Thus, foreign policy (unless concerning an established foe, i.e. USSR) cannot conceivably a long-term plan.

But whoever decided, "Hey, we don't like the Iranian Prime Minister that the Iranians elected in. Let's overthrow him and install a religious extremist, instead" was a complete jackass. All they had to do was look west a bit and see the violence that was being committed in the name of religious extremism (though really all about land) in Israel and surrounding countries.
 
2006-07-13 12:57:18 PM
I have a question: What made Hezbollah think that kidnapping two israeli grunts was a good idea? Did they not see what happened to Hamas. Is Israel ready to occupy Lebanon?
 
2006-07-13 01:01:51 PM
It's painful to read the news regarding Iran everyday...

"Our dream will be realized in a few months!"
"Iran given deadline, must cease by June or face sanctions!"
"Nations unveil proposal, Iran has until July to comply!"
"Iran will not comply until September!"

Am I the only one who sees an incredible amount of stall tactics by the Iranians, which are being allowed as they continue to work on whatever crap their doing behind the scenes?

To me, when Iran declares to the world that they have achieved nuclear success, I will lose faith in the 'diplomacy' that so many have preached the US should follow.

Please note the WHEN not IF
 
2006-07-13 01:08:07 PM
Can't we come up with another word than "fascist"...such an overused misrepresented term, driven by people that want to push a known negative onto a present political climate that does in fact not resemble what interwar fascism was.

/studies fascism.
 
2006-07-13 01:11:25 PM

The eastern world it tis explodin',
violence flarin', bullets loadin',
you're old enough to kill but not for votin',
you don't believe in war, what's that gun you're totin',
and even the Jordan river has bodies floatin',
but you tell me over and over and over again my friend,
ah, you don't believe we're on the eve of destruction.

 
2006-07-13 01:16:51 PM
Syria is Sunni.
Iran is Shiite.

Under normal circumstances, they hate each other-unless the US butts in and makes them hate us more (think Stalin and Roosevelt vs. the Nazis).
 
2006-07-13 01:17:33 PM
Hang On Voltaire: You're right. Because the terrorists are Islamic we should not oppose or fight them.

we should fight them just not with all the pomp and circumstance that is favored by the "neocons", we should be choking their funding and quietly killing off the individuals involved with islamist extremism. A strong/bold CIA could nullify the whole al qaeda threat fairly easily.
 
2006-07-13 01:19:34 PM
W^3 ???
 
2006-07-13 01:19:40 PM
I don't get why anyone would bother with NRO. Everytime you see one of them on TV, it's some belligerent douchebag who acts like a snotty little brat and insists on solving every situation by blowing it up. It just seems like a collection of assholes who want to run the world according to their own personality flaws rather than any kind of reason.
 
2006-07-13 01:26:11 PM
i12.photobucket.com
 
2006-07-13 01:26:14 PM
Meet the new Cold War. Same as the old Cold War.
 
2006-07-13 01:28:15 PM
Headso: we should be choking their funding and quietly killing off the individuals involved with islamist extremism. A strong/bold CIA could nullify the whole al qaeda threat fairly easily.

The New York Times would never let it happen.
 
2006-07-13 01:37:14 PM
intrigue78m: The New York Times would never let it happen.

heh, I was going to put a caveat about that at the end of my post, but instead I figured I would leave that softball out there for the dim witted partisans among us to use as an ego boost.
 
2006-07-13 01:41:04 PM
Geotpf
Under normal circumstances, they hate each other-unless the US butts in and makes them hate us more

Or Iraq, for that matter.
 
2006-07-13 01:42:34 PM
Headso: heh, I was going to put a caveat about that at the end of my post, but instead I figured I would leave that softball out there for the dim witted partisans among us to use as an ego boost.

Glad I could help. My ego was already doing fine, though.
 
2006-07-13 02:04:46 PM
I hate to Godwin this thread, but this Ledeen guy said it:
"the only way to achieve peace is through total war"
/Does it count as Godwinning if someone not involved in the thread says it?
 
2006-07-13 02:18:25 PM
Let's see...

Nuclear proliferation...U.S.(check), Pakistan (check)

Enriched Uranium distribution...U.S.(check), Pakistan/Saudi Arabia (check), Brazil (Check), Russia (check)

Used a nuclear weapon during hostilities...U.S.(check, check)

Allowed inspection of Nuclear Facilities...Iran (check), Russia(check), Iraq (check)

We did nothing when Israel developed a bomb.

We did nothing when India developed a bomb

We did nothing when Pakistan/Saudi Arabia developed a bomb nor when it was caught selling the secrets around the world

We've done nothing to deter Brazil from enrichment of uranium or sale on the open market

We refuse inspections of our own nuclear programs.

Get off the high horse...we've sold more weapons to "freedom fighters" and third world dictators and spent more on "defense" than the other top 20 countries combined.

We've had the support of nearly every country in the world, yet shot that wad to attack Iraq and belittle other nations.

Senior officers in the Pentagon and State Department are resigning because Bush has been considering the use of nuclear weapons in Iran.

BushCo is the real rouge leader.

Starting a war with Iran/Syria will begin World War III. It is a war we will lose. We are in the wrong in Iraq and an attack on Iran would also be wrong. Iraq had little left,as far as effective fighting forces. Iran on the other hand has a modern army with state of the art weapons. Forget about being greeted with flowers. If we attack Iran the entire Shi'a world will attack us. By the way, Syria is 80% Sunni where as Iran's Muslims are 90% Shi'a since most of our citizens don't know nor care about the differences no sense starting to educate them now

As for the author...he's a troll

"Every ten years or so, the United States needs to pick up some small crappy little country and throw it against the wall, just to show the world we mean business"
or
"we are a warlike people (Americans)...we love war"


and from Wikipedia

In an interview on July 26, 2005, Cannistraro's business partner and columnist for the American Conservative magazine, former CIA counter terrorism officer Philip Giraldi, confirmed to Scott Horton that the forgeries were produced by "a couple of former CIA officers who are familiar with that part of the world who are associated with a certain well-known neoconservative who has close connections with Italy." When Horton guessed whether that was Ledeen, Giraldi confirmed it and added that the ex-CIA officers, "also had some equity interests, shall we say, with the operation. A lot of these people are in consulting positions, and they get various, shall we say, emoluments in overseas accounts, and that kind of thing."

So here's a guy who has been deeply involved in attempting to get the U.S. into war...even using fake documents that Bush used to justify war with Iraq



 
2006-07-13 02:18:45 PM
DeathbyGeekSquad:To me, when Iran declares to the world that they have achieved nuclear success, I will lose faith in the 'diplomacy' that so many have preached the US should follow.

Please note the WHEN not IF


You do realize that the only way to prevent anyone from obtaining a nuclear weapon (if they truly want one) is to invade said country, try to replace it's government with a friendly one. This has a dismal record at best, going all the way back to World War I aftermath.

Heck the reason Iraq is what it is today is the aftermath of WWII the Brits, US, and USSR.

People will develop nuclear weapons. It's not that hard in some ways. What is hard is a reliable nuclear weapon and delivery system. All you can do is provide incentives to not do it.

If you truly want to go at it with a dozen or so nations, feel free, but don't expect me to support your silly a$$. We're better off trying to convert their children to our ways with music and movies.

Oh and lose the double standard too. Pakistan and India anyone?
 
2006-07-13 02:20:59 PM
Oh and considering this a$$ was one of those who helped arm Iran with US Missile tech, he can go DIAF.

Iran-Contra scandal, meh, practice the "values" you idiots preach.
 
2006-07-13 02:23:50 PM
moxie17
I hate to Godwin this thread, but this Ledeen guy said it:
"the only way to achieve peace is through total war"


Next up we have Ledeen saying:

"the only way to achieve freedom is total slavery" (Ownership society);
"the only way to aceive strength is total ignorance" (NCLB);

etcetera, ad infinitum, ad hominem, ad boculum
 
2006-07-13 02:45:08 PM
inglixthemad
Iran-Contra scandal, meh, practice the "values" you idiots preach.

He is though... he and his ilk have always lobbied for an unstable Middle East, and have taken actions to destabilize the Middle East. The guy wants holy war against anybody who is not part of the "West"... its that whole "War of Civilizations" crap. He believes that all other civilizations must be destroyed for there to be a lasting peace in the world.

Personally I think he just played Sid Meier's Civ 3 just a few too many times.
 
2006-07-13 02:46:37 PM
"In this war, there is no meaningful distinction between truth and fiction, they work in tandem."
 
2006-07-13 02:51:59 PM
Hezbollah, natch

Am I the only one who read that as "Hello, biatch"?
 
2006-07-13 03:09:28 PM
carmody: "In this war, there is no meaningful distinction between truth and fiction, they work in tandem."

img67.imageshack.us
 
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