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(Some Guy)   Boy Scouts want to have their cake and eat it too -- continues to discriminate, but demands free stuff other private organizations are required to pay for   (mercurynews.com) divider line 680
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15690 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Jul 2006 at 3:13 AM (8 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2006-07-12 07:16:26 PM
I don't know about you, but a gay man's intentions of joining the Boy Scouts smacks of either molestation or indoctrination.

While you are certainly entitled to your opinion, it should be weighted against the fact that you are out of touch with reality.
 
2006-07-12 07:20:40 PM
DoesItReallyMatter: Hey, I've gone out of my way to clarify my point. Do you really think average conservative Christians tune into farkin Pat Robertson and his 600 Club or whatever? Do you think I shorthand and
document Rush Viagraugh?


That was kinda his point - why do you assume that the average gay person tunes into farkin NAMBLA?

Can someone yet explain what a grown adult homosexual man wants with a group of boys, and why this fight is so important to the gay community?

What does any grown adult man want with a group of boys? The major fights, however, are over gay and atheist Scouts, not scoutmasters.

I still contend that it's because it is a conservative diety-respecting institution

Diety?

and that is simply not tolerated by the gay community.

More like the gay community isn't tolerated by them. Get your priority of tolerance straight here.

Different from your thinking, perhaps. But deserving of a penalty like ripping funding, both Public AND urging companies to withold PRIVATE fundings also? I disagree.

They're not ripping funding - the City is prohibited from funding discriminatory activities or groups. The City *cannot* legally fund them.

But punishing the Boy Scouts financially is NOT tolerance by ANY stretch of the imagination.

Who's punishing them? They're just telling them that they have the choice between being a private club or being open to the public and thus being eligible for public funds.
 
2006-07-12 07:30:17 PM
Well, Sloth, I'll let you have the last word then.

Gotta get going here. Nice talking with you guys.
 
2006-07-12 07:41:00 PM
so you're saying if a grown man likes little boys he is not gay. that is like saying a straight man likes big boys is not gay. If you like to "mingle" with the same sex, you're gay. Doesn't matter if the kid is 8 or 18. It's still the same sex, right? And last I heard gayness was same sex on sex there was nothing specific to ages.

/could give 2 flying rats asses if the BSA got their funding cut.

//Growing up I always thought the Boy Scouts were gay
 
2006-07-12 08:11:15 PM
BSA is full of elitist old farts who are too ignorant to get over it. Give it another 50 years and most of these assholes will have phased out.

/Also an Eagle Scout
 
2006-07-12 09:21:36 PM
Hillary08:
I support Hillary and ...
/Democrat who wants to win

These are mutually exclusive positions.
 
2006-07-12 09:22:17 PM
Damn.

/i
 
2006-07-12 10:35:10 PM
Drakkenmaw

Just as an FYI, the Salvation Army care fer teh gheys.

Lest the uppity homos think their relationships are valid, they officially say that gay relationships are "not equal to, or an alternative to heterosexual marriage."

And "Christians whose sexual orientation is primarily or exclusively same-sex are called upon to embrace celibacy as a way of life."

/The kettle gets zip.
//They can suck it.
 
2006-07-12 11:29:42 PM
If this is wrong, I don't want to be right:

img84.imageshack.us
 
2006-07-12 11:34:18 PM
Should I keep going?

img100.imageshack.us

There is something VERY, VERY wrong with you if you think that this is bad.
 
2006-07-13 12:03:58 AM
You're not a real American man unless you got poked in the ass by a scout leader as a child.
 
2006-07-13 12:49:00 AM
Concerning the Girl Scout questions:

gentlax13
Girl Scouts hardly make a killing on Cookie sales. Each Girl Scout Council sets the amount of money troops receive from each box of cookies sold. In our council it is 65 cents per box--seems like Boy Scouts make more profit off their popcorn sales although Girl Scouts do sell alot of cookies.

LadyRepublica
Yes, GSUSA allows lesbians/bisexuals to join--as volunteers or as girl members. Also the word God in the Girl Scout Promise can be substituted with any word a member wishes.

Bozdech2
Girl Scout do not deny any male of any age. Males over the age of 18 may be volunteers or employees. At all Girl Scout meetings and events there must be atleast two unrelated registered adult volunteers. It can be either two unrelated registered females or one registed male and one unregisted female who are not related.
 
2006-07-13 02:47:15 AM
McGovern 72

was a member of the boy scouts before I was gay, and I'm on the side of the boy scouts. I really dislike this hatred towards the group. Who gives a shiat if they don't want gay leaders? (I mean besides the six nerds that affects.)

They are a good group who do good things and the war on boy scouts is not a good thing for the progressive movement. Perhaps you have noticed the lack of leading Democrats who think the boy scouts are bad for America???

There are so many more issues that are more important for our future.


wow... it only took a few hours, but someone else said exactly what I was trying to say! Only noone jumped on his ass cos he is gay. My point of view was evil and suspect. His is just let to go by the way-side cos it makes sense but doesn't serve the agenda so many angry folks here are trying to assert.

thanks McGovern... maybe two of us will = a voice since mine only garnered hatred and personal attacks.
 
2006-07-13 06:49:26 AM
Hehe, so essentially they're saying that atheists and gays should be forced to pay money towards an organisation that discriminates against atheists and gays? Priceless.

Should charge extra for discriminatory groups, call it an 'exclusion fee' or something like that.
 
2006-07-13 09:24:50 AM
Can someone yet explain what a grown adult homosexual man wants with a group of boys, and why this fight is so important to the gay community? I still contend that it's because it is a conservative diety-respecting institution, and that is simply not tolerated by the gay community.

Believe it or not, some of those gay men were at one time ... boy scouts. They have memories of being scouts when the scouts weren't all political.

People are people, it's just a fact. And just because a man is gay does not mean he will be a bad scout leader.

Asking why a gay man would want to be a scout leader is like asking why they would want to be a soldier, firefighter, doctor or any other job. Because it's what they want.

I use to be an Aethist and I would have made a good scout leader, it didn't mean I was going to try and make all the scouts aethists, it meant I could show them how to make a decent box car or those little wooden race cars we use to race down the track.
 
2006-07-13 03:24:25 PM
anyone in support of same sex marriages who is not gay themselves is a cultural relativist... anyone that thinks being gay is good for society needs a darwin award... the reason being gay is "cool" now is because it is contraversial and therefore attracts attention... being attracted to the same sex is NOT genetic... none of your ancestors was ever gay, i promise... it is a fad and it is fun to party with them... once it is widely accepted it wont be fun anymore
 
2006-07-13 03:47:10 PM
gte269

This is a troll right? I know you can't be completely ignorant when it comes to natural occurences, sexual orientation, genetics, and history all at the same time. Can you explain why, if homosexuality is going to be the downfall of mankind (or any mammalian species), it hasn't been a problem in oh... well since the existance of humanity.

/not a homosexual
//supports the right for people to marry who they want as long as they are consenting adults
 
2006-07-13 03:53:51 PM
i didnt say it doesnt occur in nature.. whether it is "natural" or not is in the eye of the beholder... you obviously are a cultural relativist... maybe we can meet up in that party town in central africa where they have sex with consenting zebras... i heard its a good time
 
2006-07-13 04:10:16 PM
i knew i was different when i turned 13... i didnt look at the girls like the other boys in the class... i only had one thing on my mind all day... that zebra that had been eyeing me on the range... we are going to make out and have dirty zebra sex all afternoon
 
2006-07-13 04:22:11 PM
gte269

So much for hoping you were a troll. No, homosexuality being natural isn't "in the eye of the beholder". Your holy book doesn't like it, that's fine and dandy but it doesn't mean you get to ignore the fact animals practice it both in the wild and in captivity, nor that it has existed as far back as ancient Greece and possibly ancient Egypt if not farther. It didn't destroy them (in fact the ancient Greeks had the strongest military of their time largely in part due to said homosexuality).

You keep using that term, "cultural relativist", I don't think it means what you think it means. You keep applying it to me as if I'm somehow apart from your culture just because I hold a different (and apparently more educated) view on homosexuality than yourself, when it is supposed to be applied to compare other cultures to your own ie "The West" in comparison to The Middle East, or "The East" compared to "The West".

As for the Zebra comment, trying to say homosexuality is equivalent to bestiality is really tired and old. It's been debunked so many god damn times it is ridiculous but people still keep trying to make a reach for it. Bestiality is about control. Homosexuality is about who you are attracted to. Please tell me you can see and understand the difference. Another thing, homosexuality is not defined by who you fark, but who you are physically (or emotionally) attracted to. Buttfarking a guy doesn't make you a homosexual anymore than farking a woman makes you heterosexual. Sexual orientation is different from sexual acts, one is a choice (acts) and the other is preprogrammed biologically.
 
2006-07-13 04:28:33 PM
It didn't destroy them (in fact the ancient Greeks had the strongest military of their time largely in part due to said homosexuality).

should read:

It didn't destroy them (in fact the ancient Greeks had the strongest military of their time largely in part due to said homosexuality) so I doubt it's going to destory us with our scientific know-how or our 6 billion person population.
 
2006-07-13 04:40:30 PM
huh? my holy book? i'm sorry your religion doesnt like my beastiality.. but stripes is quite cogniscent and i like how she gets apples out of the tree for me.. we make each other better species...

you bring up a nice point... buttfarking a guy doesnt make you a homo.. farking a dead guy doesnt make you a hemopheliac(or whatever it is)... i love my dog more than anything and if it werent for stripes we'd be married already..
there are many degrees of what our whom someone is attracted "biologically"...some people like hermaphrodites... some (like those wonderful romans) liked little boys... having a boy as a companion taught the boy loyalty and was a fastrack to learning battle techniques.. i think they had a better army than the greeks... i hope berkeley doesnt discrimminate against guys that like zebras (cause i pay taxes too)
 
2006-07-13 05:45:38 PM
gte269

1. I have no religion so that wouldn't be my problem with bestiality. My problem with bestiality is that it is on the same line of thought as rape since both are about control, not sex, though both involve sex. From the sound of your post the term you should use is zoophilia, and yes there is a difference.

2. Both the Romans and the Greeks took adolescent boys (meaning they were in puberty) as companions so trying to imply they are pedophiles is well, retarded.

3. Hermaphrodites (as in having fully developed genitals from both sexes) exist only in fantasy. There are some intersexed individuals out there but they are not "hermaphrodites" in the typical sense.

4. Liking to fark dead people is necrophilia and again, is different from homosexuality (corpses aren't sexual where as postpubescent humans are). Hemophilia is a blood disorder and I don't even want to know how your backwards little mind managed to come up with that mistake.

5. You can't marry an animal because they are incapable of giving consent or signing a contract. This is unlikely to change until science manages to demonstrate that the animals people want to marry are sentient in the same way, or to the same extent humans are (dolphins and possibly whales are about as close as we'll ever get and wouldn't you know it dolphins like the interspecies sex too). This doesn't include religious or symbolic ceremonies like the one in India where a girl was married to a snake that is believed to be an avatar of one of their gods.

6. I don't care what you fark personally, as long as you aren't hurting the animal or putting them in unnessecary danger. If people are ok with slaughtering them en mass then some lonely cowboy buggering his horse really isn't going to bother me.
 
2006-07-13 06:11:52 PM
You could have just said... yes... i am a cultural relativist.. then i wouldnt have to read any of your post

heh.. oops.. hemophilia.. i knew that sounded wrong

dogs are sentient... you are a speciesist... does that mean retards shouldnt be able to marry? (they are not sentient in the same way as yor or me or even a dog or monkey for that matter)
 
2006-07-13 06:35:38 PM
gte269

Please learn the definition of "cultural relativism" before you use it. Talking to people who use big words without knowing what they mean irritates me to no end.

Dogs aren't sentient in the same way humans are sentient, that isn't specism that's just what the evidence supports. As for the retards comment, telling as that terminology is about you, it depends on the capabilities of the person. If they have the mental attributes of a small child then no they can not marry, however, those that are at a level that is considered acceptable for them to make such decisions can.
 
2006-07-13 06:43:02 PM
From dictionary.com the concept that the importance of a particular cultural idea varies from one society or societal subgroup to another, the view that ethical and moral standards are relative to what a particular society or culture believes to be good/bad, right/wrong

You are the definition of it as well. I know many children that have much higher "mental attributes" than many adults. Besides, as far as i know, mental capacity is not protected by any marriage laws. There are monkeys that can do sign language and can communicate better than some retarded couples (but i still like stripes better).
 
2006-07-13 07:40:27 PM
gte269

Dictionary.com isn't really a good site. I've seen so many flat out wrong definitons there that I no longer see it as a good reference site, that's the first thing. The second problem with your use of that word is that we aren't discussing cultures, we are discussing biology and to a lesser extent choice. If you want to argue subcultures with someone find a sociologist, not a psychologist*. Am I a relativist of some sort, sure, everyone is to some extent(whether they admit it or not). Thinking everything is fixed in absolutes leaves you with a lot of false dichotimies and will make understanding the world at large far more difficult than realising that a lot of it is shades of gray.

*:Currently majoring in psychology, not officially one yet.

As for "children having higher mental attributes than adults" do you mean biological children or legal children? Do you refer to maturity or brain power? If someone has the cognizant powers of a 5 year old they are incapable of making the decision to marry and are usually under the care of their family or a home that caters to them. If by monkeys you mean apes, yes there are some that can be trained to use sign language. They're also the functional equivalent of young children as well. You keep bringing up "stripes" like that is going to affect something some how. Are you trying to garner an emotional response of some kind or just trying to show me you lack the ability to debate something logically?
 
2006-07-13 08:13:12 PM
re: stripes - i'm saying i love my zebra


you're refuting the dictionary.. great


you bring up another nice point, though.. everything is not fixed absolutes... thats what im trying to get at... placing the absolute line that homosexuality sex is ok is no different than placing the line at zoophilia (as you call it) or incest... the point is, there is a right and wrong when it comes to who you should be attracted too... i dont judge homosexual, or child molestors, or zoophilias, or incestual people or heterosexuals... i dont expect to be judged for being a raging alcoholic... these things are all wrong but people, including me, partake in these activities... i would rather someone say "im a homosexual, i know its wrong, but thats what i like"... its not just wrong because it is different.. it is wrong because it is wrong (or maybe im wrong for being straight... but both cannot be right)... so the law has to draw the line somewhere... maybe in 100 years monkeys and retards can also legally join in holy matrimony
 
2006-07-13 09:28:35 PM
I was refuting dictionary.com, not "the dictionary".

you bring up another nice point, though.. everything is not fixed absolutes...

Glad we agree.

thats what im trying to get at... placing the absolute line that homosexuality sex is ok is no different than placing the line at zoophilia (as you call it) or incest...

You really really really want homosexuality to be comparable to buggering animals don't you. Why is that exactly? As for incest, there is so much that would have to be dug into to make sure that it wasn't programmed into the person by their brother/sister/[insert family member here] that it is almost a moot point. This is also on a different level than homosexuality.

the point is, there is a right and wrong when it comes to who you should be attracted too...

Who? No. What? Yes. You shouldn't be attracted to non-sexual things like children and corpses. Being attracted to sexual things like people is normal.

i dont judge homosexual, or child molestors, or zoophilias, or incestual people or heterosexuals...

One of these is not like the others, I'll let you try and figure out which one it is.

i dont expect to be judged for being a raging alcoholic... these things are all wrong but people, including me, partake in these activities...

Homosexuality, heterosexuality, and bisexuality are all normal human traits. Incest, if you believe the Bible to be literal, is how the world was populated not once, but twice. This is, to a lesser extent, also a part of humanity (used to be how the royalty from various periods in history kept the family bloodline "pure") but it is one that is dying out as we now know that the children from incestuous relationships suffer a larger myriad of genetic disorders than non-incestuous children.

i would rather someone say "im a homosexual, i know its wrong, but thats what i like"...

Then you want people to lie. Great. Super. Lying is better than honesty in your books.

its not just wrong because it is different.. it is wrong because it is wrong

So you have no justification for why it is wrong other than the fact it just is. You failed your logic course didn't you?

(or maybe im wrong for being straight... but both cannot be right)...

False dichotomy. There is more than just homosexual or heterosexual, there is also bisexual and, to a much lesser extent, naturally celibate types. None of these is "right" or "wrong" in the sense you think of "right" and "wrong" since that would imply one is superior to the other which isn't the case. Each has it's benefits to both the individual and the species at large.

so the law has to draw the line somewhere...

The law has no place drawing the line anywhere when it comes to sexual orientation. This isn't a legal or societal construct you nitwit, it's a biological one.

maybe in 100 years monkeys and retards can also legally join in holy matrimony

I doubt it since in 100 years monkeys still won't be considered on equal grounds with humans and mentally handicapped people will still have to demonstrate some level of competence before they are allowed to choose what they wear let alone who they marry.
 
2006-07-14 11:28:22 AM
First of all.. I'm not a church-goer.. My moral code is not from what you keep calling "the book"...

"i dont judge homosexual, or child molestors, or zoophilias, or incestual people or heterosexuals...
One of these is not like the others, I'll let you try and figure out which one it is."


Same sex, children, animal, sister, or opposite sex

I'm gonna go with.. opposite sex is different? Is that right?

Social relativism is exactly what it says it is.. its self explanatory and I believe every dictionary has about the same definition

I'm really interested in why you think someone can be pre-programmed to like one thing (like the same sex) and not another thing (like a child or sibling). Is it impossible that someone could be "pre-programmed" to like sex with little boys? It seems that the Romans (and Greeks as you say) were.

I know everything isn't absolutes... but you have to believe some things are right and wrong... this sense of right and wrong stems from rules that kept a society thriving...

Is it right to kill someone? No, probably not.
Is it right to do drugs? No
Is it right to drink alcohol? No
Is it right to sleep with the same sex? No


I'm not saying I haven't done one or more or all of those things. If you deny any moral code then you don't ask these types of questions. If, for some reason, you don't think homosexuality should be asked with these questions, I don't think I will understand why.
 
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