Actually, no. Since it didn't work.

Actually this will be the beginning of a new trend, "your development stopped by an endangered species? Claim it was planted!"

Let's review, shall we? The voting stands at:

Developer: Fake!
Dept. of Fish & Game (notice, fish&game, not plants): Fake!
Native Plant Society: Real!
Sonoma State prof.: Real!

Oh oh, looks like a deadlock! Let's bring in an "expert" to "break" the "tie" -- how about Penn and Teller, Bill Buckley, or the winner of "American Idol?"

SnowCrashed: Actually, no. Since it didn't work.

It would have, if it hadn't been for you meddling kids.

Yeah, great idea, until you get told you can't do any development on your land either, as it is part of the creature's habitat.

DAMN YOU ENDANGERED SPECIES!!!!

DAMN YOU!!!!

If you think that 'anything goes' for your cause please shoot yourself.

Endangered species seem to be everywhere these days

well, given that a lot of treehuggers are morons (unfortunately) this could be a terrible trend for the endangerment of endangered plants, bandying them about not knowing how to keep them alive and whatnot...

If one uses native species, might not be so hard. The trick would be to find a believable one, and to introduce them over a wide area, not just (say) one platt. Might work in the right place.

They only tried this because the Black Rhino they put there wandered off...

Regardless of where you stand on this, is it really any worse than what developers will do to get their hands on land?

I think the real solution is a population cut. 25% should fix things up for a while.

There's a good episode of the Bullshait show with Penn and Teller on this.

We're backing ourselves into an ecological and evolutionary corner.

A hundred years from now, we'll be absorbing water through tox filters in our skin. We'll have no mouths, only holes to shove the food pellets in. We won't need light because we can see in the dark. Procreation will occur at a laboratory where the genetic enhancements can be adjusted as needed, for the global workforce....


JUST CUT THE FARKIN' FLOWERS!!!!!

I don't want MY doodads to fall off!

Well could be like near me where they just drain wetlands start to build and pay a fine less than the price of even one house for a net gain of millions.
EPA whaaa?

can just test the soil to see if it matches. didn't say they did just said it looked off "alien".

Memo to Greens: we're onto you. At the top of your organizations, it's NOT about the trees, it's NOT about the cute little bunny-wunnies, and it's NOT about the environment.

It's about POWER. The power to decide how other people's resources are used. That's the driving force for all of you, and this is a great example of the extremes you will go to in order to get that power.

Through the ranks are the automaton "true believers" who are unknowingly the agents of this power.

/flame on.

This scam *can* be done correctly, it just takes more effort than these guys used.

They needed to use the native soil to grow their transplants. Not just native soil, it had to be soil from each plant location.

/developers are teh sux0rs/

This may seem all funny till some jackass wants to put up a 18 condo complex and a commercial center simply because the people of Oregon decided to enact the "no more zoning" law that is Measure 37. Since the city only allowed 15 units instead of 18 units this asswhipe is suing the city for $3.5 million because he can't do what he damn well pleases with his property.

I'll be moving some snowy plover nests onto this jackasses site.

Oh, I forgot to mention the entire years budget for the city in question is $85,000

zorgon
"Let's review, shall we? The voting stands at:

Developer: Fake!
Dept. of Fish & Game (notice, fish&game, not plants): Fake!
Native Plant Society: Real!
Sonoma State prof.: Real!

Oh oh, looks like a deadlock!"

Native Plant Society? I must have missed that in the article.
Sonoma State Prof...Bob Evans, a resident, claims a professor agrees with him that the flowers were not planted but that professor is nowhere to be found.

Looks like 2 to nothin' in the developers favor to me.

It's getting goddamned annoying that anything remotely scandalous is immediately given a title of some asinine word with "-gate" affixed to it.

Watergate wasn't a scandal about water, and it happened more than a generation ago.

/Rant

ygc123

If you want to go ahead and build a development without affecting me at all, fine.

Unfortunately, you don't live in a vacuum. Your actions affect me. And until they don't, I'm going to meddle.

Want to start development on your land, but a pesky endangered species is stopping you? Bring in a mongoose.

This may seem all funny till some jackass wants to put up a 18 condo complex and a commercial center simply because the people of Oregon decided to enact the "no more zoning" law that is Measure 37. Since the city only allowed 15 units instead of 18 units this asswhipe is suing the city for $3.5 million because he can't do what he damn well pleases with his property.


What's wrong with him putting up what he wants, on his own property?

fappomatic: We're backing ourselves into an ecological and evolutionary corner.

A hundred years from now, we'll be absorbing water through tox filters in our skin. We'll have no mouths, only holes to shove the food pellets in. We won't need light because we can see in the dark. Procreation will occur at a laboratory where the genetic enhancements can be adjusted as needed, for the global workforce....

JUST CUT THE FARKIN' FLOWERS!!!!!

I don't want MY doodads to fall off!

Jesus, dude. Lay off the drugs.

Are you actually trying to say that if we don't allow endangered species to die off, we'll lose our mouths? Or if we DO allow species to die off, this will happen? It's not really clear. Either way, you need to step back into reality.

Anyhoo, if it's true that they were planted, then move them.

Sad that people resort to this kind of thing to preserve wild areas that someone believes needs preserving so badly.

Wal-Marts and Best Buys for everybody!

Meh. If this is for real why doesn't a bottle of Roundup just accidentally spill onto the "fake" plants?

/a few weeks ago I sprayed a bunch of weeks
//then I walked on the weeds I had just sprayed
///then I walked across my lawn
////oops, that Roundup shiat really farking works

Loves me some Eco-fascists! Next thing you know, there'll be some crazy people climbing trees in urban gardens to keep the owners from using their land as they see fit.

/not as funny in writing as it was in my head
//I thought that I was clever
///I just proved myself wrong
////Known slashie abuser

That is AWESOME.

A much better bit of civil diobediance than say spiking trees or other bullshait pulled by enviornmental whack jobs.

What ISN'T adressed is why an out of town developer gets to foist his projects in a community that clearly doesn't want it against the wishes of the local community.

Or is it REALLY against the popular will? Surely the duly elected local officials have to approve this sort of thing?

More info needed, but I think that is the more intriguing conversation to be having.

Indeed! why not just pave over farking everything and build 95 brazillion McMansions for all of the people who can't afford to live in them! that would be a great use of our natural resources - as long as developers and venture capitalists make jabillions of dolloars - because in the end, that is what is really important, right?

What's wrong with him putting up what he wants, on his own property?

This is in a small coastal town and he is going directly against all zoning in the area simply because he can.

How about if I come over to where you live and build a mother farking wal-mart right next door to you? There's a reason why zoning laws exist and it's to keep crap like this from happening.

Interesting my ass submitter

Wait until you buy land and the Army Corps of Engineers comes knocking on your door talking about wetlands.

submitter = teh dumb

ygc123: Memo to Greens: we're onto you. At the top of your organizations, it's NOT about the trees, it's NOT about the cute little bunny-wunnies, and it's NOT about the environment.

It's about POWER. The power to decide how other people's resources are used. That's the driving force for all of you, and this is a great example of the extremes you will go to in order to get that power.

Yes, this makes total sense.

Power to stop people from doing what they want to do. Power to tell people how to use common natural resources.

Um...yeah. And what would that power be used for, then? Some kind of elaborate kick-back scheme?

Unlikely.

There's an invasion of mulberry on the levee by where I live (American River). It's eroding the levee and poses a realistic risk to numerous native species because it's parasitic and invasive.

It is also the home of the mulberry bark beetle, which is tiny, and also a non-native (introduced), yet also "endangered" species of bug.

My buddy is a supervisor with the levee district, and they're not allowed to cut down the mulberry. It's killing California oaks, native cottonwood, native elm, native walnut, and makes the river bank look like a big green mass of ugly weedlike shiat... but the friggin' endangered beetle we never see ever, he's good.

I mean, it's not like a friggin' lion or big horn sheep or whatever, it's a damn beetle.

/Some things go too far.

CreepyNeighborGuy
What's wrong with him putting up what he wants, on his own property?

What's wrong with your neighbor having a strip club in their house? Or burning a cross? Or storing toxic waste for a fee? Or storing his feces in piles in his backyard? It is, after all, "his own property."

\Hint: it's not your property to begin with
\\Google: Eminent Domain

I just release a few Siberian tigers. Can't fark with their native habitat.

No I didn't release the tigers. They must have migrated here...

I say we form that committee to cut populations, and we begin with any Arabic- or French- speaking countries. That should take care of much of it.

/France sucks
//So do Muslim countries
///so does my sense of humor

LEADER OF THE FREE WORLD...SHHH
Native Plant Society? I must have missed that in the article.

It's mentioned in the last paragraph.

And why is it the Fish & Game commission makes the determination that this was not a native plant (as mentioned in the last post before this)? Seems like there should be more input than just from them.

Some research:

"The City of Sebastopol is a small semi-urban community located in California, on the western edge of the Santa Rosa plain. It is 50 miles north of San Francisco, 8 miles west of Santa Rosa, 10 miles from Bodega Bay, and about 15 miles from the Russian River. The City, incorporated in 1902, currently has a population of about 7,800 people and serves a trade area population in excess of 50,000 people.

"The Laguna Vista Mixed Use Project is a major proposed Sebastopol development. It consists of up to 145 dwelling units, of which 30 would be apartments affordable to low-income households, plus limited commercial space. Approximately half of the 21-acre site would be permanent open space. "

This development will be "just south of the Fircrest Mobile Home Park". (I guess it's not in a rich part of the city)

"The site is within the City limits, can be readily served by existing infrastructure, and with a map amendment, is consistent with the General Plan, as well as the Urban Growth Boundary adopted by the voters of Sebastopol (Measure O), which supports "...efficient
housing development in the City through measures such as encouraging infill development,
facilitating construction of second units, requiring the creation of affordable housing units, and
seeking to diversify housing opportunities in the City."

"The project owner is offering to sell the rear open space area below the 76-foot elevation of approximately seven acres in size to the City or other qualified entity for permanent dedication for public open space, environmental restoration, and trail development. This area would be a significant addition to the City's Laguna Wetlands Preserve and an asset to the entire community."



Looks to me like they held public hearings, made the developer comply with all applicable ordinaces and rules, did an enviornmental assesment, he will have to keep about half of it open space, he is donating 7 acres to the city, 20% will be low income housing, AND drop half a million into "ownership assistance programs" and so on.

It does not appear that the opponants of this subdivision and the electedcity council members see eye to eye on this. And given that this project was first proposed 4 years ago, and the supporters of this plan were not voted out of office at some point, I can only assume the general voting population of the town does not have a serious problem.

sinanju, you win the thread

BojanglesPaladin: . And given that this project was first proposed 4 years ago, and the supporters of this plan were not voted out of office at some point, I can only assume the general voting population of the town does not have a serious problem.


That would only make sense if people paid attention to city council elections. I'd bet most people can't even name one person on their city council.

Well, the voting public doesn't have a problem with it. Unfortunately, only about 20% of the population votes in local elections.

\Still, if you don't vote, don't whine.