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(Officer.com)   Police officer shoots, kills gunman who waved the gun, fired shots into the air, then laid down in the middle of the street. Gunman's cousin said she felt the shooting was not justified   (officer.com) divider line 220
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12727 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Jul 2006 at 6:22 PM (8 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2006-07-07 06:48:41 PM  
Kebert Xela: You're telling me the "greatest nation on earth" can't devise a better way to apprehend a subject than shooting him to death and endangering innocents?

So you're saying that when only the criminals have guns, this country will be much safer?

Brilliant farking Plan!
 
2006-07-07 06:49:19 PM  
"Lethal force will always have to be on the table. But there are methods of trying to avoid that. Technology is one way, but I really believe better training to be a big part of that as well.

Unfortunately, law enforcement is slow to adapt to either."

I'm with you on that, untrustworthy.

I'm just thinking we might want to try to find different ways. The whole idea is that justice is served, right?

I'd rather see a guy go to jail for life for endangering people that murdered in "a blaze of glory."


Just my opinion, but I think it's funny how badly people will cling to a gun sometimes.

Makes you wonder why.
 
2006-07-07 06:49:26 PM  
Worst headline in a long time - and the submitter was up against some tough opposition.
 
2006-07-07 06:50:18 PM  
Kebert Xela: Funny. That doesn't sound like bringing someone to justice at all.

Cops don't deliver justice. That's for the courts to do. Cops deal with threats. And in this case it sounds like it was dealt with quite appropriately.
 
2006-07-07 06:51:03 PM  
Kebert Xela

Funny. That doesn't sound like bringing someone to justice at all.
It sounds like murder.

That is all.


That is the most ignorant statement I have ever heard. How can a cop defending his life be called a murderer? The suspect pointed a gun at him, that shows intent to kill.

Not everyone can be brought to justice. There is a point of no return, when you have no choice but to end someone's life or have your's ended. I'd say having a gun pointed at you by a dangerous man would fall under that category.
 
2006-07-07 06:54:10 PM  
Kebert Xela

You need to learn what the word murder means. A murder is a premeditated killing, meaning the cop would have had to have it in his mind to kill him before going in.

Lets make this simple:

Cops have a right to defend their lives. Do you disagree?
 
2006-07-07 06:54:12 PM  
Kebert Xela: I'm just thinking we might want to try to find different ways. The whole idea is that justice is served, right?

Well, as I said, cops don't administer justice. But I agree that we should always be looking to find less lethal ways to handle a situation without compromising the lives of innocents or officers.

I'd rather see a guy go to jail for life for endangering people that murdered in "a blaze of glory."

Me too. But when you point a gun at a cop it becomes a matter of self defense.

Just my opinion, but I think it's funny how badly people will cling to a gun sometimes.

I agree. I love my guns, but I hate about 90% of farkers who blabber about how they'd cap somebody for doin' 'em wrong. Guns are used as a last resort and only when you feel you or someone else is in imminent grievous danger.

If somebody had fired rounds into the air, failed to cooperate and then pointed the gun at me I'd figure it was my life or theirs. I think the cop acted very appropriately. Too bad there isn't a way around it, though.
 
2006-07-07 06:54:13 PM  
Daymoose: It's still murder. I didn't say that it wasn't justified, but there is a difference. A cop is supposed to be bringing these people in to be tried-not play executioner.

It would seem to be better for society if we developed some other way to do this rather than encorage shootouts around innocents.

Darayman: Nice Straw Man, buddy.

Baron: Maybe, I wasn't clear. In that siutation the cop had little choice, but wouldn't we be better served to develop something that would do the job better. That's what I was trying to say.
 
2006-07-07 06:54:52 PM  
Kebert Xela: Really? You're telling me the "greatest nation on earth" can't devise a better way to apprehend a subject than shooting him to death and endangering innocents?

Between the fact that police departments across the nations are having a hard enough time keeping their officers equipped with what they have already, asking them to all convert over to the latest and greatest military weaponry would probably cost an amount comparable to what we've spent trying to re-build Iraq. Now unless you're telling me that you want us all to go peacenik, pussy-footing around and not stir up any more wars in the deserts, I suggest you keep your shut it.
 
2006-07-07 06:56:02 PM  
Criminal have you pinned down and about to shoot you and a few other people?

Have no fear!!!

You can now call Nick Burns: Your Company's Computer Guy!

He'll use the magic of technology to save your ass from the cracked out madman!

"My man used to whoop the shiat out of me until I called "Nick Burns: Your Company's Computer Guy"! He came over and sparked his ass with a tazer or stun gun or some shiat. Now my man just sits on his ass all day drinking 40's and watching Pokemon. Just like he used to. But he don't whip my ass no more.

Thank you technology."
 
2006-07-07 06:56:36 PM  
Kebert Xela: A cop is supposed to be bringing these people in to be tried-not play executioner.

But part of the job of law enforcement is to handle threats. A cop that doesn't shoot back at somebody who points a gun at them will soon become a dead cop if they aren't lucky.
 
2006-07-07 06:57:22 PM  
Say, Baron, so if I point a gun at a corrupt cop who is threatening my rights, do I deserve to die?

If you are looking to go ad-hominem, then I'll be ignoring you from now on, but if you want to actually discuss the issue I brought up, I'm all ears.
 
2006-07-07 06:58:39 PM  
Kebert Xela: Say, Baron, so if I point a gun at a corrupt cop who is threatening my rights, do I deserve to die?

You can't point a gun at somebody just because they are threatening your rights. They have to be actually threatening your life. And if they are doing so wrongly, I'd suggest you shoot fast and accurate or else you won't get a chance to tell your side of the story.
 
2006-07-07 06:59:17 PM  
bwahaha, methinks Kebert Xela is a tad idealistic.
justice? you must be mad.

if the court system ever arrives at justice it's pure luck.
the court system is about compensation either to individuals or to the government.
the guy owed compensation to the government for waving a gun around and shooting it in public, probably in the form of money or jail time.
what is this justice you speak of?

anyway, disobeying police instructions makes you a threat, pointing a weapon at police officers escalates that threat, if you get pepper sprayed/tazered/shot at that point it is nobody's fault but your own.
 
2006-07-07 06:59:37 PM  
Kebert Xela

A cop is supposed to be bringing these people in to be tried-not play executioner.

A cop has other duties, and sometimes those duties supercede bringing a person in to be tried. A cop has to protect the lives of innocent bystanders, the lives of his fellow officers, and his own life.
 
2006-07-07 07:00:02 PM  
Kebert Xela: Darayman: Nice Straw Man, buddy.

Nice counter argument. I take that as consent of defeat.

Criminals don't care who they shoot. Police need a little more then "Drop your weapon or we will hit you with the glue gun!"
 
2006-07-07 07:00:12 PM  
replace "They" with "Dey," "you're" with "you," "the" with da," and "This" with "Dis," and you'll probably have a more accurate quote from the woman.

/it would be funny if it wasn't true.
//i deliver pizza for the only pizza shop that serves "the hood" in my area and it seems pretty universal.
///half the black people that work in my store can't understand the ghetto people that call up.
////slashies yo!!!
 
2006-07-07 07:00:15 PM  
Kebert Xela:
Funny. That doesn't sound like bringing someone to justice at all.
It sounds like murder.


Funny, sounds like a clean shoot to me. Fully justified.

Everyone, cops included, have the right to use lethal force to defend themselves if their life is threatened.

Anyone with a brain KNOWS that pointing a gun at a policeman will (very likely) get you shot. Not with a pepper spray, not with a tazer, not with a beanbag, but with the slug thrower that the cop unholstered once you started threatening them with your own gun. That's textbook "life threatening".

The asshat in question further done himself in by discharging his weapon in public, and then using an apartment building as a shield, endangering the lives of anyone in the apartment. And the cop only needed one shot, from a shotgun, to take care of the situation. HERO tag for sure.
 
2006-07-07 07:00:57 PM  
Kebert Xela: Baron: Maybe, I wasn't clear. In that siutation the cop had little choice, but wouldn't we be better served to develop something that would do the job better. That's what I was trying to say.

Maybe if we deployed ROBOCOP, things would be different and this little maggot will still be alive to suck the citizens dry of their tax money to keep him alive for the next 50 years in prison. Does that sum up your plan?

/run on sentence record?
 
2006-07-07 07:01:18 PM  
"Between the fact that police departments across the nations are having a hard enough time keeping their officers equipped with what they have already, asking them to all convert over to the latest and greatest military weaponry would probably cost an amount comparable to what we've spent trying to re-build Iraq. Now unless you're telling me that you want us all to go peacenik, pussy-footing around and not stir up any more wars in the deserts, I suggest you keep your shut it."

Umm, you don't visit many police stations, do you?

Money is not a problem. Perhaps instead of driving Suburbans around the could invest in some better offensive weapons?

Why is it such a radical idea to at least consider the thought that we could probably endanger fewer innocents and kill fewer suspects.

That's all I'm saying, but thanks for the open mind.
 
2006-07-07 07:01:55 PM  
Say, Baron, so if I point a gun at a corrupt cop who is threatening my rights, do I deserve to die?

If you are looking to go ad-hominem, then I'll be ignoring you from now on, but if you want to actually discuss the issue I brought up, I'm all ears.


That wasn't an ad hominem. I called you statement ignorant and then rebuked it, I never made a personal attack. If I wanted to ridicule you, I would have by now.

And, no, you don't have a right to point your gun at him for simply abusing your rights. Thats what the courts are for. Now, if he is unlawfully threatening your life, shoot away.
 
2006-07-07 07:04:18 PM  
Darayman: You can't argue with a Straw Man. It has no counter. I took your defeat in stride right after you typed it, but thanks for playing.
 
2006-07-07 07:04:39 PM  
Kebert Xela: ...so if I point a gun at a corrupt cop who is threatening my rights, do I deserve to die?

Um, yes!

Funny how you conveniently ignore the cops right to not get shot.

fark your rights.
 
2006-07-07 07:04:51 PM  
Let me start by saying that I HATE JUSTIN TIMBERLAKE.

hitparade.ch

I honestly can't say why I hate him. I've never listened to his music. But I do which he'd lie down in the street...at least until this bilious taste in my mouth goes away.
 
2006-07-07 07:06:46 PM  
untrustworthy: Metal Storm kicks ass. They have a handgun that can fire lethal and non-lethal rounds. It is capable of firing very rapidly and can't possibly jam. And if the gun is taken from the officer it won't fire without the ring that goes with it.


OhmyGod... you didn't just think a video game weapon is real, did you? Now, you're gonna want those goggles in the Tom CLancy game, too... right?
 
2006-07-07 07:07:02 PM  
"That wasn't an ad hominem. I called you statement ignorant and then rebuked it, I never made a personal attack. If I wanted to ridicule you, I would have by now."

Sorry, but your personal opinion is not a rebuke. Damn, I knew arguing skills were bad on the internet.

You and I, apparently aren't going to disagree. Talk to me agin if one of your loved ones is ever gunned down illegally or in a crossfire.

Maybe, you might change your tune.
 
2006-07-07 07:07:39 PM  
Daraymann: fark your rights

there it is in a nutshell ladies and gentlemen
 
2006-07-07 07:07:42 PM  
Do you think the cop feels like a hero for killing some drunken idiot?

Oh geez lostcat, are you trying to paint cops as sympathetic friends of the people? I'm sure this guy has told his story to fifty thousand friends how he "took down" the dangerous guy laying in the street.

I've never been arrested, never in jail, but I've also never interacted with a cop who wasn't a self absorbed, arrogant, mysoginistic asshole.

Chicago is a helluva a town, but I'll be teaching my kids to AVOID cops, not to ever go to them for farking help. They're more liable to be farking shot for looking at them wrong.
 
2006-07-07 07:10:26 PM  
RocketRod: OhmyGod... you didn't just think a video game weapon is real, did you? Now, you're gonna want those goggles in the Tom CLancy game, too... right?

You didn't even go to the website, did you? They've already developed a lot of different weapons far beyond just the handgun.

If I were to want a video game gun, I'd take the redeemer.
 
2006-07-07 07:11:38 PM  
Jarbabyj: Thats kind of where I'm coming from on that.
I don't think a person who only had to have 20 hours of college with a"C" average is qualified to be judge, jury and executioner.

Apparently, it's just me, though.
 
2006-07-07 07:12:01 PM  
Kebert Xela
It's still murder. I didn't say that it wasn't justified, but there is a difference. A cop is supposed to be bringing these people in to be tried-not play executioner.

It would seem to be better for society if we developed some other way to do this rather than encorage shootouts around innocents.


No, it's killing. To be classified as murder, as someone mentioned before already, it has to be premeditated. Killing in self defense happens, it's a shame someone had to die, but in a you-or-me situation, it really doesn't matter.

Say, Baron, so if I point a gun at a corrupt cop who is threatening my rights, do I deserve to die?

If you are looking to go ad-hominem, then I'll be ignoring you from now on, but if you want to actually discuss the issue I brought up, I'm all ears.


Deserve to? No. However, depending on what he's doing, if you pull out a gun and escalate the situation, he has every right to shoot you.

If you have a problem with an authority figure, you go above him. If you can't go above him, it's time for a nice, bloody revolt. Don't tell me you expect the government not to fight back too, though.
 
2006-07-07 07:12:13 PM  
jarbabyj: but I've also never interacted with a cop who wasn't a self absorbed, arrogant, mysoginistic asshole.

How many cops have you interacted with?
 
2006-07-07 07:12:34 PM  
Kebert Xela

You and I, apparently aren't going to disagree. Talk to me agin if one of your loved ones is ever gunned down illegally or in a crossfire.

Maybe, you might change your tune.


Instead of bickering about debate tactics, why don't you just answer my question. I'll say it again: Cops have a right to defend themselves. Do you disagree?

Also, stop calling it murder, and saying that its "murder even though [you] think it was justified" is a cop out. Murder is inherently unjustifiable.
 
2006-07-07 07:13:19 PM  
Kebert Xela: Talk to me agin if one of your loved ones is ever gunned down illegally or in a crossfire.

Would you feel differently if the cops were unable to shoot the criminal first because they were overly concerned about his rights?
 
2006-07-07 07:14:44 PM  
Kebert Xela: I don't think a person who only had to have 20 hours of college with a"C" average is qualified to be judge, jury and executioner.

The cop didn't hunt this guy down and execute him for his crimes. He confronted someone that was waving a gun around, had already fired it, and then pointed it at the cop. How else was this person supposed to be dealt with? The cop is the only one, and he has the right not to get shot. The crazy guy waving the gun around has rights, too, but when he's putting others in danger he forfeits those.
 
2006-07-07 07:14:53 PM  
Kebert Xela
Jarbabyj: Thats kind of where I'm coming from on that.
I don't think a person who only had to have 20 hours of college with a"C" average is qualified to be judge, jury and executioner.

Apparently, it's just me, though.


Situation:
You're walking down the street, a man holds a gun to you and asks for your money. You're low on cash and give him the only bill you have, a 5. He becomes enraged and threatens to kill you. You're carrying a gun, and you see him point the weapon towards you, but you have enough time turn your gun towards him and fire first.

Do you? Or do you take the time to attempt call the police to arrest him so he can be tried for your murder?
 
2006-07-07 07:14:59 PM  
I find it funny that people who classify all cops as assholes are generally those who have made choices in their lives to bring the attention of law enforcement onto themselves either by appearance of numbskullery or their own action with wanton disregard to the effect on others or consequences. For example, a cop would much rather pull over Mr. Neon Green Honda Civic with the wing and fart pipe and a "Blow Me" t-shirt wearing his hat sideways versus the businessman in a three piece in a Light Blue Acura RL. If both are going side by side down the highway, who is going to trip the radar gun? Right. No way to tell for sure. Who is going to get the ticket? The logical choice, and the one that will probably stand up in court.

Please feel free to distort the circumstances to choices of clothing, hairstyles, tattoos, outward appearance of attitude, choice and use of words, and even law that is broken. This is where profiling came from.

If you feel compelled to stereotype a grand majority cops as assholes, remember they have a category for you too. They are all members of the human race and we all know there are plenty of assholes in the human race. Don't give these people a load of crap today because you got a ticket for speeding 10 years ago.
 
2006-07-07 07:15:07 PM  
"I'll be teaching my kids to AVOID cops, not to ever go to them for farking help. They're more liable to be farking shot for looking at them wrong."

And remember Farkers that racial profiling is wrong... no one should ever judge someone based on a preconcieved notion that he or she is in the wrong simply for being a member of a certain nationality or race.

That being said please continue to make broad sweeping judgements about police officers who often stick thier necks out to protect you all. I figure that sounds about fair for Fark.
 
2006-07-07 07:15:17 PM  
untrustworthy But I'm not sure I'd call [the cop] a hero.

He chased an armed man into a building. Do you have what it takes to do that, untrustworthy?

/didn't think so
 
2006-07-07 07:15:25 PM  
Kebert Xela: But there are methods of trying to avoid that.


"Hold on, sir! I have to go back into my car, drive downtown, get my tazer, drive back and then stun you. Please wait here and try not to endanger others while I'm gone."
 
2006-07-07 07:16:24 PM  
I'm not a big fan of cops... after all, I live in Arizona, Maricopa County to be exact, and we have to deal with the grandstanding shenanigans of one of the most crooked, racist, self-serving sons of biatches ever to wear a Sheriff's badge... but I will say this.

If I were a cop and some douchebag was pointing a firearm at me, he would be one dead douchebag. I'd go all T.J. Hooker on his sorry a**!

In the end, it's not badge versus drunk, it's bullet versus flesh. Nobody wins, really.
 
2006-07-07 07:16:27 PM  
Makes me glad I don't live in the hood!
 
2006-07-07 07:17:50 PM  
jarbabyj: but I've also never interacted with a cop who wasn't a self absorbed, arrogant, mysoginistic asshole.


I know plenty. PUH-lenty since I was in law enforcement for two years.
You need to step away from the internet until you can say something smarter.
pssst. And by the way. Girls are cops now too, so the mysoginistic thing is now null and void. I hear they can even vote now too.
 
2006-07-07 07:18:35 PM  
Baron: A cop has as much right to defend himself as I do.

And let's be honest, it is murder. An execution is murder. Even by your definition. It's premeditated. Whether you have 6 months to plan someone's death or 6 seconds it's still planned.

We murder all the time and are okay with it, but, apparently, some people don't like that word.

Like I've said before, a "C" average student as judge, jury and executioner? I'm not that cool with it.
 
2006-07-07 07:19:09 PM  
Kebert Xela

You and I, apparently aren't going to disagree. Talk to me agin if one of your loved ones is ever gunned down illegally or in a crossfire.

Maybe, you might change your tune.


And, if you really want to get into debate skill, the above statement is a logical fallacy. I could just as easily say "talk to me again if one of you loved ones is ever killed because the cops cared too much about his rights and didn't take him out in time".
 
2006-07-07 07:19:39 PM  
Confined INDOORS with a dude behind a door pointing a gun in your face. Uh, yeah, ya think the cop is going to cap him?

What is with the stupid headline writers today? Geezuz.

i23.photobucket.com
 
2006-07-07 07:19:56 PM  
There's never a "cousin" who says "Ya, that nubian got what he deserved..."

They never say that.
 
2006-07-07 07:20:27 PM  
Kebert Xela
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: It's 2006. Is it not possible to equip police with a way to render a suspect harmless without killing him and creating/adding to a crossfire?

There is currently no way. There is a huge arms industry that would love to develop something, but have failed so far.

If you think you can do better then stop posting crap on fark and get your ass to a drawing board.
 
2006-07-07 07:20:40 PM  
bring_it: Don't give these people a load of crap today because you got a ticket for speeding 10 years ago.

I don't. Now I just wish they would stop giving me a load of crap because I remind them of the kids they picked on in high school--the kids who did a hell of a lot better than they did. You can whine and complain about how these awful farkers are generalizing about cops, but people say these things for a reason, which is that cops are not the farking angels half of this thread seems to think they are. Obviously not all cops are bad, there are exceptions to every rule (except that one). But if the majority of a person's experience with cops is negative, then you can't blame them for having a negative view of cops.
 
2006-07-07 07:21:07 PM  
""Hold on, sir! I have to go back into my car, drive downtown, get my tazer, drive back and then stun you. Please wait here and try not to endanger others while I'm gone.""

Wild hyperbole and a straw man. Nice!
 
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