Well obviously she's not going to kill again unless she has kids again, right?

That's a long stretch of logic - even for a neocon.

Nemo's Brother
Do all of you brain washed fem-Nazis think that the wives of murderers should be killed?

No, we don't. But feel free to keep thinking that, if it keeps you warm at night. It certainly seems to.

Oh I get it, being christian made her do it. What happened to the crazy defense? Is she getting thrown under the bus because feminist hypocrisy is being revealed?

time for a strawman?

mount.diablo

Wrong, for the Vatican No Jesus = No heaven.

ask any catholic missionary

Hardly seems like you had the time to research that. I had the opportunity to ask this question (teen years crisis of faith and catholicism lost) and was told he made it to heaven somehow. too long ago to remember. Catholic priest and I got away anal virginity intact! :-)

MR_DING:

Wild Bluebonnet

"she should have killed Rusty instead"

she should have killed herself instead.

In a perfect world, yes Mr. Ding, she should have.

Unfortunately, the world is not perfect and Andrea is insane.

eqtworld: "Those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them - bring them here and kill them in front of me." - Jesus (Luke 19:27).


[Luke 19:11] While they were listening to this, he went on to tell them a parable, because he was near Jerusalem and the people thought that the kingdom of God was going to appear at once.

The listeners in Jericho recalled how King Archelaus slaughtered his enemies, and recognized how the parable was true to life.

uhm, all this insanity stuff - i'm sorry, but couldn't you then pretty much claim that anyone would have to be insane to kill anyone? so hey, let's let all the farkers who've ever taken another person's life just go to the looney bins for a few years?

i'm not necessarily of the "let her fry" camp - honestly the whole story is so freaking warped to me that i can't ponder it so much as to *really* argue it. but really - killing someone, especially killing one's own children, is such an horrific abomination, you could always call it insanity.

so where does that put it?

That's a long stretch of logic - even for a neocon.

I like you. You can fark my sister.

eqtworld: "Those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them - bring them here and kill them in front of me." - Jesus (Luke 19:27).


[Luke 19:11] While they were listening to this, he (JESUS) went on to tell them a parable, because he was near Jerusalem and the people thought that the kingdom of God was going to appear at once.

The listeners in Jericho recalled how King Archelaus slaughtered his enemies, and recognized how the parable was true to life.
It wasn't Jesus who wanted to kill them. C'mon.

mount.diablo

I didnt have to research it because it has been catholic doctrine since 1000 years before they put Galileo under arrest. If what you are saying ever was issued by the Catholic Church it would be huge news. A few priests may say something else, I know the Jesuits say some off the wall stuff. You are probably talking about people who have never heard of Jesus. Not people like Gandhi who knew all about Christianity but rejected the idea that Jesus was born of a virgin, died for our sins and came back from the dead.

You are simply wrong on this point.

I like you. You can fark my sister.

Only if she says please...

I'm sorry, I refuse to believe that ANY mother who would do that to her children is sane.

What would killing her solve? I mean besides satisfying the bloodlust of the "kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out" crowd?

It's not like we need to send an example to mothers across the country about why killing their babies is wrong. What exactly does this deter? NOTHING!

And then there's the people trying to blame the husband for, you know, not assuming that his wife would kill their children while he was a way. Jeez, what an asshole.

Sigh.

Such a sad, sad, sick case. For so MANY reasons; not the least of which being the reaction to it.

Steezy What upsets me is the possibility that she could spend a few years in a hospital and then be back out on the street.

I don't think it would happen. Hinkley is still in the looney bin - although recently he's been allowed out on some supervised releases.

black_knight


blah blah blah Christian love to drown her kids blah blah blah mentally imbalanced blah blah blah

I'm sorry, but I have trouble taking a religion seriously that claims it's the "One True Religion" when it's central book says the Earth is flat.


*headdesk* Nowhere in the Bible does it say the earth is flat. In fact, a friend of mine is going to put something about this up on his site.

Heroic Poser

I have heard that quote used by many people in many situations, if that is the way you take it that is fine.

there are several others

"And whoever offends against one of these little ones ... it would be better for him to have a millstone hung from his neck and be drowned in the sea" Jesus- Mark 9:39

It makes sense really, if someone tells a kid about another world view, that child might not have blind faith Jesus was a god. Then the kid will burn in hell for ever. Better to drown someone than let him talk to children about different ideas.

OK, eqt. A duel. You post links against mine. This is your pennance for making me look well after my bedtime. I'm blaming you, mister.

"Roman Catholics, at the Second Vatican Council, moved from extra ecclesiam nulla alus (outside the Church, no salvation) to 'The Catholic Church rejects nothing of what is true and holy in other religions.' Devotees of non-Christian religions may be 'implicit believers' or, in Karl Rahner's phrase, 'anonymous Christians'. Hans Kung says these religions may provide ordinary, whereas the Christian Gospel provides extraordinary means of salvation. "

http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/4813.htm

I'm too tired to read more links at the moment. I may return with some tomorrow, but this is fark and I may well not.

As a Mother of 2 I am horrified by this....this saon came to mind....


"Little Susie" by MJ

Somebody killed little Susie
The girl with the tune
Who sings in the daytime at noon
She was there screaming
Beating her voice in her doom
But nobody came to her soon...

A fall down the stairs
Her dress torn
Oh the blood in her hair...
A mystery so sullen in air
She lie there so tenderly
Fashioned so slenderly
Lift her with care,
Oh the blood in her hair...

Everyone came to see
The girl that now is dead
So blind stare the eyes in her head...
And suddenly a voice from the crowd said
This girl lived in vain
Her face bear such agony, such strain...

But only the man from next door
Knew Little Susie and how he cried
As he reached down
To close Susie's eyes...
She lie there so tenderly
Fashioned so slenderly
Lift her with care
Oh the blood in her hair...

It was all for God's sake
For her singing the tune
For someone to feel her despair
To be damned to know hoping is dead and you're doomed
Then to scream out
And nobody's there...

She knew no one cared...

Father left home, poor mother died
Leaving Susie alone
Grandfather's soul too had flown...
No one to care
Just to love her
How much can one bear
Rejecting the needs in her prayers...

Neglection can kill
Like a knife in your soul
Oh it will
Little Susie fought so hard to live...
She lie there so tenderly
Fashioned so slenderly
Lift her with care
So young and so fair

I stand by my original statement

Andrea Yates asks for forgiveness = she goes to heaven with all the Christians.

Ann Frank a jew who did not believe in christ = burning in hell forever.

/Imagine going to heaven and finding the worst killers
//Imagine going to hell and finding nice people who think jesus might not have been a god

"Those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them - bring them here and kill them in front of me." - Jesus (Luke 19:27).

That's pretty cut and dried there. Luke must have been a terrorist to write such things.

eqtworld: if that is the way you take it that is fine.

Um...that's the way it's written in the Bible. There's pretty much no other way to take it, as opposed to so many other passages, so I guess I will. Telling it any other way is just either ignorance or twisting words**like you did** to fit their agenda.
I don't like the whole "believe in me or burn" type faiths either. And also, I'm in favor of her AND her husband getting the death penalty as well.
I'm just tired of seeing people twist this story so they can turn people from believing in something that's made a positive difference in most peoples lives.
Of course, this is Fark, so I'm in the minority when I say that because "if it bleeds, it leads" mentality.

JungleBoogieShe was willing to kill five people because she was desperately unhappy with her situation.

What ever happened to running away?

Good question! I mean, that's what any sane person would do. What's her problem, anyway?

attention span As a Mother of 2 I am horrified by this....this saon came to mind....
Little Susie
blah blah blah etc.

Lady...that maudlin song is f-ed up. Did posting the lyrics really add anything to the discussion?

Heroic Poser

Um...that's the way it's written in the Bible. There's pretty much no other way to take it,

Um... Do you know how many christian sects there are? The Catholics and protestants killed each other for hundreds of years over the proper way to worship the lamb of god. If you have 10 people read the bible you will get 10 different interpretations of it.

If someone gives you a passages and tells you "this is what this passage means, there is no other way to interpet it" I guarantee you I can find 5 people with 5 fundamentally different ideas of what that passage means.

And another thing. Good thing you're a mother of 2, or you wouldn't have been horrified, right?

ridiculous

Jesus is the final judge, there exists a purgatory for those who committed lessor sins. Yet even those who take Jesus as their lord and savior will be judged and might not enter heaven. Christians and Non-Christians will be judged by Jesus.

It stands to reason that someone as forgiving as Jesus would allow Gandhi to at least enter Purgatory and later into Heaven because of the good things that he did.

In some religions, like Islam, Hell is temporary and like Purgatory, yet eventually people will enter paradise.

Hell was originally created to punish the Devil and his followers. However for those who are really evil and without redemption, like say Adolph Hitler, they may end up there if judged.

The main argument is if Andrea Yates was insane at the time she killed her children. Did she not know the difference between right and wrong? Well she claims that killing her children was the right thing to do. If so, she was not insane because she knew the difference between right and wrong, just not the right and wrong that our law follows. An insane person would have not known the difference between right and wrong and wouldn't have said that killing their children was the right thing to do or not. It would have been something they just did, because voices told them to or they had a racing thought to do it if really insane. Which clearly was not the case here. She did call 911, and doing so shows she knew it was socially wrong to kill her children, if someone is really insane, they just do not snap out of it a few minutes later or so. The insanity lasts until the chemical imbalance or whatever has been corrected.

orion

I think you mean "The Catholics made up purgatory even though it does not exist in any passage of the bible."

So, I get to reject Jesus as a god and savior, spend some time in purgatory and then go to heaven?

Ok, if you say so

/takes note

eqtworld: Do you know how many christian sects there are?

Yes. And find me one that mis-interprets this.
19:11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable,

While I understand some religions quibble and fight over some things that are written, I've never heard of anyone using this certain sentence to say Jesus said to kill and bring him the dead.

LISTEN UP, PEOPLE:

Post-Partum Depression ≠ Post-Partum Psychosis!

Get it? Got it? GOOD!

/PPD is to PPP as a mild chest cold is to the "galloping pneumonia" that killed Jim Henson.

//PPD is to PPP as a summer shower is to Hurricane Katrina.

///PPD is to PPP as a Black Cat firecracker is to Tsar Bomba (most powerful nuke ever detonated).

Ya see, I got the same problem ol' Andrea has...a hormonal imbalance that I can't do anything about. My imbalance involves testoterone, so I guess it's okay I killed my family. I'm sure you all understand.

My imbalance involves testoterone, so I guess it's okay I killed my family

as long as you did it in the manliest way available to you at the time.
Bathtubs are for sissies - chainsaws and dynamite, all the way.

Bovey: OK, that's a reasonable position, just so long as they don't declare her "cured" a few years down the road and decide to release her.

Oh, no. Don't get me wrong. If she's looney enough to kill her kids she should definately be locked up. But any idea of somehow achieving justice by imprisoning somebody without any complete diagnosis and plausible reformation it is foolish to let these people back onto the streets.

Additionally, if in extreme cases one is found to have some sort of psychosis which causes irrational and uncontrollable behavior which may result in criminal behavior, it seems disingenuous to inflict punishment. Treatment and prevention of further harm should be foremost in dealing with people like this.

Not sick, evil.

COMALite J: /PPD is to PPP as a mild chest cold is to the "galloping pneumonia" that killed Jim Henson.

A mild chest cold can quickly develop into pneumonia.

//PPD is to PPP as a summer shower is to Hurricane Katrina.

Weather systems like showers can help develop hurricane conditions.

///PPD is to PPP as a Black Cat firecracker is to Tsar Bomba (most powerful nuke ever detonated).

Ok, now you're just being stupid.

eqtworld:

I stand by my original statement

Andrea Yates asks for forgiveness = she goes to heaven with all the Christians.

Ann Frank a jew who did not believe in christ = burning in hell forever.

/Imagine going to heaven and finding the worst killers
//Imagine going to hell and finding nice people who think jesus might not have been a god


Imagine if it's a fraud and you've just been had.

/imagine if you will

Wild Bluebonnet

Hippie ;)

Mitrovarr: Everything you think and therefore everything you do is due to your brain. If your brain malfunctioned in the right way, due to the capriciousness of physics, chemistry, and biology, you could walk out your door RIGHT NOW and commit crimes more heinous than hers. No high morality, or feat of intelligence, or strength of will would save you, because everything you are would be corrupted, and you would not even understand that there was a problem with what you were doing.

Ah, but therein lies the rub. You see, in order to believe in any religion that preaches the existence of a personal afterlife in which one retains one's memory, personality, etc., then one cannot believe what you just said. There has to be a soul, or spirit, that has the actual "self," that is distinct from the physical brain (and the rest of the body). Why are movies such as Freaky Friday so popular? The idea of the self as being separate from the body is at the heart of the religious beliefs of much of the nation, and at the heart of this case.

To believe in an afterlife, you cannot believe that any of the following actually exist: mental illness of any kind, mental retardation, drunkeness (how can alcohol, a mere chemical, do anything to the soul or spirit?) or any other mind-altering drug or substance (not even caffeine), amnesia, etc. This also hits at the heart of such issues as homosexuality (many cannot accept that it has a physiological cause because that would mean that it's not chosen, and that would mean that the soul or spirit doesn't exist, and that would mean that when you die, there's no Heaven, no Hell, no Purgatory, no being a ghost, no Elysian Fields, no Valhalla, no nothing. Lights out. Game over. No thought, no memory, no existence. Good, bad, or indifferent, that's what happens when you die, if in fact the totality of the self exists in the physical brain). And too many people just can't bring themselves to accept that: that someday, they're going to die, and that's going to be the end of them. And those poor little Yates kids are not in the loving arms of Jesus, either. They just don't exist anymore.

Didn't RTFA, OR TFT. The coont needs to boil...slowly, and PAINFULLY. I don't care WHY she did it. She did it. I hope she dies. Not SOON, mind you. Just SLOWLY and PAINFULLY.
Oh God, I hope it hurts when she dies.

I would gleefully put the hurt on her, if I could.

Prospero424:

Wild Bluebonnet

Hippie ;)



Not at all, I'm a Conservative Republican.

/that happens to be not particularly religious
//it can happen
///Dubya told me

Wild Bluebonnet: Not at all, I'm a Conservative Republican.

I know, that's why I thought the "hippie" thing was funny.

Oh, never mind.

I guess this isn't the thread for humor anyways.

actraiser2k1: Didn't RTFA, OR TFT. The coont needs to boil...slowly, and PAINFULLY. I don't care WHY she did it. She did it. I hope she dies. Not SOON, mind you. Just SLOWLY and PAINFULLY.
Oh God, I hope it hurts when she dies.

Translation for you farkers:

Black itty blook black BLACK, BLOP, DEE-BLOOP. Dee bloop doody blip blarp bloop dee bloop diddy BLIP BLOP.

Doo bloop, Duh bluff diddy-blap blooey.

A couple points- For those advocating she kill herself- her religion forbids her to, and as you can see her religion had her firmly by the throat. Secondly- her husband HAD to have known how crazy she was, and that she should have been put on medication. Those of you saying the fact that she waited till everyone was gone shows premeditation- I find it far more likely that she had been that crazy for quite some time and was prevented from doing anything too wierd by the husband and mother in law. Having known people who have had psychotic breaks from reality AND families who have not wanted thier little crazy to be medicated because of religious beliefs....I'm sure Andrea had a loooong history of doing things that would have caused normal people to commit her, for her own good. Families like that are super controlling, and they want to deal with everything themselves. They do everything in thier power to convince the person that outsiders don't care about them, and for whatever reason they will tolerate all kinds of really bizzare behavior, violent and self destructive behavior, and try to hide it from other people, and lie about it. The husband should be culpable, because he left a person who he must have known to be completely insane with paranoid delusions alone with the kids.

paulv: My sympathies lie with the family members who already bought gifts for the kids and had to find the reciept so they could get cash and not just store credit.

I'm not certain, but I think you can go to hell for comments like that. Though humorous, I think you get to got to the hot place for shiat like that.

ambercat: A couple points- For those advocating she kill herself- her religion forbids her to, and as you can see her religion had her firmly by the throat. Secondly- her husband HAD to have known how crazy she was, and that she should have been put on medication. Those of you saying the fact that she waited till everyone was gone shows premeditation- I find it far more likely that she had been that crazy for quite some time and was prevented from doing anything too wierd by the husband and mother in law. Having known people who have had psychotic breaks from reality AND families who have not wanted thier little crazy to be medicated because of religious beliefs....I'm sure Andrea had a loooong history of doing things that would have caused normal people to commit her, for her own good. Families like that are super controlling, and they want to deal with everything themselves. They do everything in thier power to convince the person that outsiders don't care about them, and for whatever reason they will tolerate all kinds of really bizzare behavior, violent and self destructive behavior, and try to hide it from other people, and lie about it. The husband should be culpable, because he left a person who he must have known to be completely insane with paranoid delusions alone with the kids.



Die in a fire!!
If a man with a ruthless witch of wife killed his 5 children he would be dead long ago. It's a two way street sweet heart. Take your feminist double standard BS somewhere else.

It's either going to happen one of two ways:

1) She spends the rest of her life in an institution, bringing about mental health awareness worldwide. As a result, many innocent men, women and children will be saved from the ultimate doom of being killed by some batshiat crazy person who should have never been on the streets in the first place.

--or--

2) She's executed, accomplishing nothing other than her death.

/I'm voting for #2, it's easier to read.

For what it's worth, I have worked in a maximum security psychiatric hospital/prison, which is where people who are "guilty, but not guilty by reason of insanity" of violent crimes go. There's a running joke among staff there about how you'd HAVE to be insane to plead insanity, because it is actually much, much more difficult to get out of a forensic psychiatric hospital with that plea than it is to get paroled from prison. Some guys pled NGI for crimes like robbery or car theft and actually spent 20-30 years or more in the facility, much more time than what their crimes would have earned them them in regular prison with a regular guilty plea. Once you are found NGI, you have to meet certain, strict criteria to be released, and those criteria are basically impossible for people like Andrea Yates to ever meet, even with a boatload of meds and therapy and testimony of psychiatrists saying they're sane. Even if they can appear to meet them, the judge can deny them release anyway, especially if the prosecutor puts up a fight. Plus, in a forensic psychiatric hospital, she would have to attend multiple, daily therapy groups and talk about her crime over and over in detail with various therapists and other patients, where in prison she may have more opportunity to retreat into a fantasy world and try to push it away. In a way, prison might be easier than a psych hospital with a NGI plea for her (I thought I read somewhere death was off the punishment table?), if you're thinking of the "best" punitive value, how miserable it would be for her.

I don't know if NGI criteria are the same in Texas as in CA where I worked, but if anything I would think it's the same or harder to get out from under a NGI plea in Texas. Also, psychosis often displays a relapse/remit pattern, with symptoms varying in severity - I have seen patients fairly lucid one second and then something sets them off and they are completely whacked, making them a lifelong risk and therefore a lifelong resident of the hospital. Please don't misunderstand - what she did is horrible, I don't excuse it, nor the equally horrible crimes of other patients with whom I have worked. I just wanted to share what I learned about NGI on my rotation at the forensic hospital. :)

/future psychologist
//one more year
///likes working with psychotic people because no one else does

She should die, and in the worst way possible. No mercy.

Post pardum depression, what a pussy excuse. I have a kid, so STFU all of you "waaaaaaaaa, but she had a baby" a-holes. Her husband knew she had "issues" and he continued to leave those children alone with her. There should have been NO lag time between him leaving for work and someone coming over to help her. Ideally, she should have had no access to her kids. Regardless, she was the only one who killed them. She needs to take responsibility for that. Trust me, serving life in a mental hospital is not the same as a Federal country club.

Send her to PMITA prison for men, bend her over in the yard, and let the men have at her. For the love of God, she had to CHASE one of her children down to kill him. Think of the hell he endured. Why should she get anything better?