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(CBC)   Doctor admits that zero-tolerance guidelines for drinking in pregnancy are based on shaky scientific grounds, and are really about protecting doctors from liability. (Read through to end of TFA)   (cbc.ca) divider line 216
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10989 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Jun 2006 at 9:59 AM (8 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2006-06-26 09:06:32 AM
My wife OB said the occasional drink was fine. And my kids turned out....hey, wait a minute.
 
2006-06-26 09:11:50 AM
My mom drinked a lot. And here I am.
 
2006-06-26 09:12:16 AM
My wife believes in moderation in all things, so while pregnant she only smoked 1 pack a day rather than 2, drank a twelve pack instead of a case, took only 1 hit of acid, snorted only half a gram of coke, did only 2 balloons of nitrous and only popped 2 Xanax.

Our kid is moderately just fine.
 
2006-06-26 09:16:25 AM
Yeah, no kidding. CYA procedures and treatment are off the chart due to malpractice concerns.
 
2006-06-26 09:17:35 AM
submitter: shakey...liabaility

submitter's mom clearly drank during pregnancy.
 
2006-06-26 09:22:05 AM
Barbara Bush drank during George's pregnancy, and he turned out fine.
 
2006-06-26 09:23:18 AM
Why risk it? Why not just work from the basis that alcohol is not necessary and potentially bad for baby and avoid it altogether for nine months. That's not so much of a sacrifice to make surely?
 
2006-06-26 09:26:49 AM
Throughout my wife's pregnancy the advice was always "We don't know if it's just one drink at the wrong time, constant binge drinking or somewhere in between" and they basically said "We don't recommend you drink but if you want to have a small glass now and again you should be fine".

My wife sufficed with the odd sip of my beer or a small glass of wine and the kid turned out A-ok...
 
2006-06-26 09:33:19 AM
Why risk it? Why not just work from the basis that alcohol is not necessary and potentially bad for baby and avoid it altogether for nine months. That's not so much of a sacrifice to make surely?

But then they can't blame lawyers.
 
2006-06-26 09:44:02 AM
Fjool:Why risk it? Why not just work from the basis that alcohol is not necessary and potentially bad for baby and avoid it altogether for nine months. That's not so much of a sacrifice to make surely?

That seems to make the most sense to me as well.
 
2006-06-26 09:59:38 AM
Fetal Alcohol Syndrome keeps the baby small and makes labor easier (especially if you're drunk when you give birth).

img215.imageshack.us
 
2006-06-26 10:03:04 AM
Are you really going to risk it anyway?

If you're pregnant, don't drink or smoke. If you drink or smoke, don't breed.
 
2006-06-26 10:04:42 AM
I wish mommy was drunk when she was pregnant with me, instead of just the conception.

//Are you my daddy? Are YOU my daddy?
\\Is the mailman my daddy?
 
2006-06-26 10:04:53 AM
No, subby, I will NOT read to the end of TFA. And there's ain't a got-damned thing you can do about it!


Enlgish motherfarker, do you speak it?
 
2006-06-26 10:04:54 AM
So if my daughter looks like WC Fields, then I guess we shouldn't have been drinking Mad Dog every night?

/Now you tell me!?!
 
2006-06-26 10:05:01 AM
images.google.com

REJOICE!
 
2006-06-26 10:05:01 AM
Bottle of guinness a day won't harm you.

Bottle of gin...well...I guess its obvious how you became pregnant then.

/everything in moderation never hurt anyone
//except Steve-The guy who swallows broken glass-McJohn
 
2006-06-26 10:05:08 AM
My idiot ex niece-in-law never stopped smoking or drinking and didn't take care of herself at ALL when she was pregnant. She gave birth to Timmay! from south park, and I'll be paying for his sped classes for the next 16 years.

Oh and of course she's on public assistance.
And unemployed
and just had her third kid

//not bitter
 
2006-06-26 10:06:38 AM
I read one article that said the most likely time to do harm is drinking at conception time. So, no more getting drunk and screwing.
 
2006-06-26 10:08:44 AM
www.uglyjackass.com

I always thought he looked like he had FAS.
 
2006-06-26 10:08:54 AM
TFA didn't really say this... not at least as I read it. Fark has this magical way of letting not news become corrupted without really a second glance. Careful, cause some of the kids take it at face value.
 
2006-06-26 10:09:22 AM
Sheesh, if you can't put the cigarettes and booze down for a while so you can do something more important with your life (i.e. BRING ANOTHER HUMAN LIFE INTO THE WORLD) then you probably don't deserve a kid. Obviously your priorities lie elsewhere.

/why do stupid people breed so much?
 
2006-06-26 10:09:31 AM
Major_Thomb

What the hell? Sound's iffy to me, there's no fetus to be damaged at that point.
Also, how in the hell are the English gonna have any more children if you can't get drunk and make babies?
 
2006-06-26 10:09:47 AM
simusid:My idiot ex niece-in-law never stopped smoking or drinking and didn't take care of herself at ALL when she was pregnant. She gave birth to Timmay! from south park, and I'll be paying for his sped classes for the next 16 years.

All those inspections & paperwork they require to adopt a kid, yet anyone with a vagina can get make one (with a few minutes of assistance) and screw it up before it's even born. Seems odd somehow...

/it's amazing they dont' require a license to have children
// ...yet
 
2006-06-26 10:09:57 AM
What we're told is: it's unknown how much alcohol can affect the child. Thus, the only safe number of drinks is 0. And of course it's not like they're going to experiment to gove us a clearer picture. So just chill out and have lemonade for the 7 1/2 months between the time you find out and when you pop the little puppy out.

"Life is more complex than just pure science," he said.

Words to live by.
 
2006-06-26 10:10:52 AM
"If you drink or smoke, don't breed."

Your mom and gramma and great gramma smoked and drank, trust me. Gramma and great gramma probably dipped snuff and took the opium that was readily available in those days too.
 
2006-06-26 10:11:28 AM
Vengeful_Hobbit if you can't put the cigarettes and booze down for a while so you can do something more important with your life (i.e. BRING ANOTHER HUMAN LIFE INTO THE WORLD)

That's important? What? Any imbecile can do it and what? We need more kids on this planet?
 
2006-06-26 10:11:42 AM
Vengeful_Hobbit:/why do stupid people breed so much?

It's backwards-evolution baby! The more successful you are, the less you breed, and the less of the (n+1)th generation is descended from successful people.
 
2006-06-26 10:13:24 AM
Flaming Asshat:

"And there's ain't a got-damned..."
"Enlgish motherfarker, do you speak it?"


Is this a troll?
 
2006-06-26 10:13:45 AM
The emphasis on not drinking or smoking while pregnant is far bigger in the USA than anywhere else on earth. Women in Europe regularly drink and smoke while pregnant and their rates of birth defects aren't any higher than here in the States.
 
2006-06-26 10:14:44 AM
The real reason is to give the father a DD for 9 months.
 
2006-06-26 10:15:32 AM
You can have Fetal Alcohol Syndrome and still be President, here at least.
 
2006-06-26 10:16:02 AM
goeniegoegoe:

drinked? Don't you mean drank?

Of course poor language skills could be a sign of fetal alcohol syndrome. Is that your point?
 
2006-06-26 10:16:19 AM
both of our midwives and doctors told my wife it was ok to have a glass of beer at night.

granted my daughters now have tentacles and eat raw fish, but everything else seems fine.
 
2006-06-26 10:17:41 AM
jshine

It's backwards-evolution baby! The more successful you are, the less you breed, and the less of the (n+1)th generation is descended from successful people.


The Morons (fine, fine, Morans) are on the March.
 
2006-06-26 10:17:51 AM
TwoBitFratWhore

I always thought that picture was the best evidence that humans evolved from apes.

I instinctively want a banana now.
 
2006-06-26 10:19:06 AM
Fjool: Why risk it? Why not just work from the basis that alcohol is not necessary and potentially bad for baby and avoid it altogether for nine months. That's not so much of a sacrifice to make surely?


The same could be said for caffeine, just about any over-the-counter medication, and many mainstream foods, even getting your hair died. I think it's all a little over the top.

Mhen my wife was pregnant, we researched the findings, and saw that attitudes towards drinking in pregnancy were more cultural than scientific. We came upon this finding from the Royal College of Obstetritions and Gynaecologists:

There is an increasing body of evidence suggesting harm to the fetus from alcohol consumption during pregnancy. While the safest approach may be to avoid any alcohol intake during pregnancy, it remains the case that there is no evidence of harm from low levels of alcohol consumption, defined as no more than one or two units of alcohol once or twice a week.

That's the advice we followed, and everything turned out fine. My wife also ate whatever she wanted, and had a cup of coffee in the morning.

I submitted this article because I find the arguments about alcohol in pregnancy so interesting. I think they're indicative of our (American and Canadian) wierd attitudes about booze, and our willingness to accept bad science if it suits popular wisdom.

I would never tell a woman she should drink during pregnancy. That would be stupid. But it's still a good idea for us, as intelligent people, to look a little further behind the conventional, or official wisdom that we're handed every day.

I also found it interesting how TFA seems to be written by a journalist who disagrees with the doctor's guidelines. It's kind of funny, actually, how she spends the last few paragraphs casting seeds of doubt, both through the doctor's own words and other sources.

For example, here she manages to get the doctor to talk about the other possible aggravating causes of FAS in lower-income women:

"If you are poor and unprivileged, in addition to drinking, you have poor nutrition, poor prenatal care and 30 other things, the chance of this child to be able to overcome (exposure to alcohol during pregnancy) is much more minimal," he said.

And here, she gets the doctor to admit that the guidelines are really mostly political (cultural?) and legal, not scientific:

In Koren's research, he hasn't been able to detect any harmful effects of minimal drinking during pregnancy. However, the long-term affects may not surface until later on in life, he said.

"If something is bad, you see it right away," he said. "Something may be safe for one million and not for the one million and one."

Koren notes that physicians also have to protect themselves against liability.

"Life is more complex than just pure science," he said.



Do what makes you comfortable. It's your pregnancy. But I don't think it hurts to enjoy a healthy dose of skepticism.
 
2006-06-26 10:20:26 AM
jshine


Vengeful_Hobbit why do stupid people breed so much?

It's backwards-evolution baby! The more successful you are, the less you breed, and the less of the (n+1)th generation is descended from successful people.


Haha, stupid people are a K-selected species.

/bio major. Yes, i know the argument is logically impossible.
 
2006-06-26 10:22:21 AM
Rozinante: The real reason is to give the father a DD for 9 months.


My wife had the occasional glass of wine, but at that minimal amount, she still made a great DD.

And yes, that was convenient.
 
2006-06-26 10:22:47 AM
TwoBitFratWhore

The sad part is: I got the joke w/o the link...

/ BTW, what "argument"?
 
2006-06-26 10:22:50 AM
From TFA: In Koren's research, he hasn't been able to detect any harmful effects of minimal drinking during pregnancy. However, the long-term affects may not surface until later on in life, he said.

Ah, so the bad things may appear later.

From the next paragraph: "If something is bad, you see it right away," he said.

Ah, so the bad things will appear immediately. Wait, what?!?

/ Methinks this doctor is prepped with his Chewbacca defense
// English, motherfarker!!!1
 
2006-06-26 10:23:41 AM
I thought the occasional glass of wine being ok (or even beneficial) was common knowledge?
 
2006-06-26 10:24:05 AM
Gothnet: Do we need more kids on the planet? I don't know and I can't really give you a straight answer on that one, but I think we can agree that condemning a child to an early grave or a lifetime of hardship and developmental problems because the mother doesn't want to give up a couple of vices for a while is terrible.
 
2006-06-26 10:24:22 AM
If you are pregnant you should do everything in your power to have healthy baby... Caffeine is probably worse than having the occasional drink. The main problem is alcohol clouds your ability to make decisions and one drink could turn into 5... blah blah....
 
2006-06-26 10:25:00 AM
captainover

I always thought that picture was the best evidence that humans evolved from apes.

I instinctively want a banana now.



www.randomimage.us
 
2006-06-26 10:25:39 AM
my sister in law was advised by her doc that 2 oz or a half glass of red wine was ok, especially right before bed to relax during the last month of her pregnancy---she is only 5 ft 2 in and my nephew was huge when he was born.
 
2006-06-26 10:26:02 AM
Life is more complex than just pure science

Wow, that's an underwhelming thing for submitter to point out as the important part. Kinda stuff they write on inspirational calenders and self-help books.
 
2006-06-26 10:26:32 AM
Guh.... well that WAS the "That's Racist!" kid but oh well. You get the drift.

/sigh.
 
2006-06-26 10:27:07 AM
Oh, wait. Okay, I just got it. That's funny.
 
2006-06-26 10:27:11 AM
Hey submitter: You do realize there are shades of grey in the world, right?

/rolling eyes
//if you want to, go ahead and drink while you're pregnant
///then my kids will be smarter than your kids
 
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