Wow. Rove really picked the low hanging fruit on this one.

What a load of crap. A bunch of losers are approached by a con man offering them money and other fun stuff. They bite, and now they are a huge, important group of terrorists? This looks like entrapment and was done just for the headlines.
If I got together with a bunch of dumbheads who hate Bush, got really, really stoned with a new guy who brought pizza, Mountain Dew and some awesome smoke, and we 'plotted' Bush's demise (something about making it look like buckshot) and the guy who brought pizza turned out to be a junior secret agent intern with Homeland Security....would that guarantee the midterm elections? And a life sentence for me?
I shout ENTRAPMENT

Caseyallaround: They bite, and now they are a huge, important group of terrorists?

Well, hate to derail your very important and well thought out rant, but the govmint never claimed they were a "huge" or "important" group of terrorists. "This group was more aspirational than operational," said John Pistole, the FBI's deputy director.

You might want to look those words up. And while you got the dictionary out, look up entrapment.

Read only the headlines, that's what most idiots do.

Dancin_In_Anson

Here you have the same kind of people. Ignorant and easliy led. They get an idea in their head and all it takes is someone to motivate them based on that idea and fostered by their ignorance. Validate their thought process and they will do anything for you. Islam the perfect place for someone like this.


Let's wait until the trial or at the very least until the investigation is through before declaring these guys anything but bored losers in their parent's basements who happened to talk to the wrong undercover cop.

Your comparison of these guys to Bush--a proven sociopath and religious fundamentalist whacko who has NUCLEAR WEAPONS and the world's most advanced military at his disposal to carry out his mad ambitions--is laughable.

Dancin_In_Anson

Ok, if we're nit-picking then I concede it should have read: "Your comparison of these guys to the idiots who worship Bush..."

stiletto_the_wise: Let's wait until the trial or at the very least until the investigation is through before declaring these guys ...




... Guilty?


How nice of you.

but the govmint never claimed they were a "huge" or "important" group of terrorists

Considering there was a significant dog and pony show put on by the Attorney General of the United States I would say that this statement is inaccurate.

many of you like to talk about

Any post that starts out like this is immediately suspect and should get your strawman detector to start up. I love the logic though.

"You guys say stupid stuff that I don't agree with so I will make assertions based upon the same presuppositions and generate conclusions using the same thought process."

Brilliant.

Leak it to the media and grandstand the story world wide that we're making progress in the war on terror.

*swing and a miss*

it certainly is a good thing that the gov't was checking phone logs and bank records to catch these guys, who apparently didn't have any contact with real terrorists, only cops.

i'm glad they're watching out for us.

shiate: i'm glad they're watching out for us.

And if they watched them from a didtance, let their plans develop ... and they slipped away, and ended up killing a few thousand americans, and it later comes out that the government was tracking them, knew about them, and lost them ... you'd pretty much be one of the people screaming bloody murder and calling for Bush's impeachment because he didn't keep Americans safe.

Dancin_In_Anson

And therefore renders the rest of your statement totally sans foundation in this thread. Perhaps you would like to start over?


Not at all... You're essentially comparing these clowns with Bush supporters and saying the clowns are more dangerous.

Let's be honest, they'd have to be a bunch of idiots to even think of messing with the city of Chicago.

Dancin_In_Anson

Why am I even trolled into these conversations? I should know better. I must admit, however, that you successfully diverted me from from arguing your main point to arguing over literary minutiae. Bravo!

I'm still not sure these clowns crossed the line of commission of a crime, unless "hey, we want to blow up a building, will you help us?" is a crime.

It usually takes more than that, such as gathering tools and equipment, recon, etc.

Be interesting to see exactly how far these guys went.

It occurs to me that if the feds had busted McVeigh and Nichols while they were in the planning stages for Oklahoma City, we would have concluded that they were a pair of delusional nobodies who were a threat to nobody but themselves.

Just another day in Liberty City.

I call shenanigans on this so-called "terror cell"

this story breaks the same day as the press finds out about big brother going through citizens' bank accounts.

I laugh at the fools who believe everything this administration tells them.

I'm still not sure these clowns crossed the line of commission of a crime, unless "hey, we want to blow up a building, will you help us?" is a crime.

It is, actually. Conspiracy to commit a crime. Doesn't matter if you actually carried it out if it can be found that you intended to do so.

Today's word is agent provocateur.

donny'sdiscountgas: I laugh at the fools who believe everything anything this administration tells them.

fixed that for you.

You know, all of you like to critisize the Repubs out there saying they're a bunch of lying pigs. And you all like to say that they would do anything short of murder to gain political points. And you all say that the Bush administration is the most incompetent administration to ever take office in the history of the United States...
I'm sorry where was I?

/bring out the dog and pony show

Seems to me they had the desire, but lacked funding. Since the y were seeking funding they got busted. I have no issue with this, even if they were chumps. Chumps with explosives are still dangerous. What if they hooked up with a real terrorist intead of an undercover Ef Bee Eye? They might have actually done some damage. Even a dumbass can set off a bomb if he gets his hands on it

spelunking_defenestrator: It is, actually. Conspiracy to commit a crime. Doesn't matter if you actually carried it out if it can be found that you intended to do so.

Not always true. Although conspiracy lowers the bar a bit, there generally has to be some overt acts in furtherance of that conspiracy. Sitting around talking about it is generally not enough.

Imagine if they arrested every Farker who said Bush should be shot for conspiracy.

And you all like to say that they would do anything short of murder to gain political points.

...Like the Vince Foster thing, which some on the Right are still obsessing about, long after the case got thrown out of court?

stiletto_the_wise:

Because trolls love trolls. That's how they make more trolls.

/troll

If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck it must be.......I call bullshiat.

AND shenanigans.

I don't think these guys could have masterminded shoplifting a pack of smokes.

Can't help but wonder if maybe these guys were just scamming the guy for new boots.

ekdikeo4: I doubt that. It's not the President's job to keep Americans safe. It's the President's job to deal with policy.

Can't wait till we get one that can do either.

From TFA: The loyalty oaths were captured on videotape, indicating that FBI agents obtained a warrant to plant recording devices in the group's windowless warehouse headquarters.

BWWWWAAHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

dancin in anson

Here you have the same kind of people. Ignorant and easliy led. They get an idea in their head and all it takes is someone to motivate them based on that idea and fostered by their ignorance. Validate their thought process and they will do anything for you. Islam the perfect place for someone like this.

as is any nationalist right-wing group, as is any extremist christian group.

though your summary concludes 'we got lucky' and is phrased to imply some kind of correctness on the part of bush, we will probably find that these people were motivated by a reaction to bush's foreign policy adventures. it's interesting too because your rhetoric is phrased to attack islam itself, and bin laden is currently using the idea that bush has declared a 'war on islam' as his major propaganda angle. we have been telling you personally for years that bush's cavalier attitude will increase terrorist recruiting and spawn home-made terrorists. that this will happen right in front of your face, is something that we have predicted and that you have ignored in every conversation regarding bush's 'fight on terror'

so don't attempt to spin this as some kind of justification for your position. it is a direct assault to your position

He said he wanted to ''kill all the devils that we can,'' officials said, and he wanted most of his group to attend al Qaeda training this past April.



The what you say?

scotttothety

As far as I know, there only has to be shown an intention and that there had been some actions taken to advance the plan (funneling funding, etc.)

If prosecutors had to wait until there *had* been overt acts committed, shiat would be blowing up all over the place all the time. There are a lot of these situations, these little cells that get cracked that we don't ever hear about because the feds didn't wait around for something to happen.

It's stupid to say these guys weren't capable of this or that. We don't know all of the facts yet.

Whether or not one agrees with our gov't's tactics in getting the information that leads to these arrests is a seperate issue.

Bush should be shot for conspiracy

Sure you don't have to like him. what are you going to do when one day you wake up and gas cost $3.50 a gallon. Do you really think people are going to care how we kept it below that...oh wait...nevermind