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(SeattlePI)   Motorcycle rider dies in crash while returning from rally opposing mandatory helmet laws   (seattlepi.nwsource.com) divider line 285
    More: Ironic  
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10810 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Jun 2006 at 2:52 PM (8 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2006-06-21 03:07:07 PM
I'm going to go with not ironic.
 
2006-06-21 03:07:24 PM
I'll go for one or the other. You can either:

1. Have the law tell you that you HAVE to wear a helmet

or

2. Have the law tell you that if you aren't wearing a helmet, and get in an accident, you are wholly liable (not your insurance, nor the other party) for injuries you suffer, and you give up your right to sue for damages.

Take your pick, cyclists.
 
2006-06-21 03:07:41 PM
DarthDarthBinx

proper bike helmet


But it has a visor that sticks out over the eyes, which seems like it would really catch the air, especially going that fast. But then again, you can't see lasers in space or hear ships go by either, so I'm guessing proper helmet design wasn't one of Lucas' worries.
 
2006-06-21 03:08:20 PM
Just add an extra fee to insurance for those who don't want to wear a helmet. The law is there because the gov is tired of scraping your brains up off the sun baked highway . Extra fee will cover clean-up costs.

win/win

^^^bonus points for creative slashie useage?
 
2006-06-21 03:08:38 PM
Why do you want a choice not to wear a helmet unless you plan on doing so?

And you call untrustworthy's argument weak? Wow!
 
2006-06-21 03:08:48 PM
BrotherTheodore: No way.
Wearing a seat belt can very well prevent YOU from crashing into ME.
Vehicles are much harder to control while you're being violently flung about their interior.
It ain't all about just YOU.


Here's a tip: when you're trying to make up reasons why the government should control everyones lives, don't make it preposterous.
 
2006-06-21 03:08:49 PM
I was in a motorcycle accident. I was riding "biatch" with my brother driving. We were following the curve of a road and hit some sand. My most vivid memory of that wreck is the feeling of my helmet-encased head bouncing and scraping along the road as I slid head-first towards the ditch. We got back on the bike and went swimming anyway.

Anybody so stupid that they don't wear a helmet while riding NEEDS a law to tell them to protect themselves. The smart people in the world have a responsibility to protect our helmetless tards from themselves.
 
2006-06-21 03:09:08 PM
mc frontalot

I think the idea here as that there is a possibility of a choice being taken away.
 
2006-06-21 03:09:17 PM
great use of irony tag, man thats awesome. Motorcycles, just weedin out the dumb ones from society one at a time
 
2006-06-21 03:09:24 PM
DarthDarthBinx: proper bike helmet


And jacket.
 
2006-06-21 03:10:10 PM
2. Have the law tell you that if you aren't wearing a helmet, and get in an accident, you are wholly liable (not your insurance, nor the other party) for injuries you suffer, and you give up your right to sue for damages.

Take your pick, cyclists.


That's ridiculous. If you can find an insurance company willing to insure you, that's between you and them and is none of anyone else's business.
 
2006-06-21 03:10:35 PM
Oh... so he was drunk. Much betterer.

2 Grams But he's dead. how can he apply as the Steelers QB?

oh, wait.. they probably wont notice. ;)
 
2006-06-21 03:10:38 PM
I'm all for making seat belts not mandatory. There's a ton of idiots that need to be thrown through a window onto some nice hot Arizona asphault.

/seatbelt saved my life
//always wear a seatbelt
 
2006-06-21 03:11:36 PM
Kim Chee
here here! and that way of thinking goes for other things too. i told my 17 year old that wearing protective gear when he's skateboarding is his choice, however if he costs me one more trip to the ER it's coming out of his savings from now on. i am done paying for other people's poor choices.
 
2006-06-21 03:11:44 PM
ABATE Jason, not IMBIBE. He did everything but send an invitation for a visit from Mr. Death.

Of course, if it that second truck hit him, he probably died from being run over.
 
2006-06-21 03:12:43 PM
And don't try to argue that not wearing a helmet or a seat belt is a personal choice; people who don't wear helmets or seat belts affect more people than just themselves. They affect other drivers who may be struck and injured by their body, they affect their children who grow up parentless, they affect everyone's insurance premiums when they spend the rest of their lives on life support, they affect the taxpayers when they don't have insurance, and so on. Your personal freedoms end as they start infringing on others' rights.
 
2006-06-21 03:13:00 PM
What if you've paid thousands and thousands of dollars into insurance over the years. Why shouldn't you get it back? Its your "just in case" money. The insurance company gets to make money off of your money then they refuse to give it back to you based on their judgement of weather or not you deserve it?

Or am I completely out to lunch?
 
2006-06-21 03:13:16 PM
Okay lets set the record straight on this whole "irony vs. coincidence" debate that crops up every time this tag is used.

From Webster:

Main Entry: iro·ny
Pronunciation: 'I-r&-nE also 'I(-&)r-nE
Etymology: Latin ironia, from Greek eirOnia, from eirOn dissembler

3 a (1) : incongruity between the actual result of a sequence of events and the normal or expected result (2) : an event or result marked by such incongruity b :

It is the incongruity of an individual protesting a safety measure then dying in an accident that makes it IRONY.
 
2006-06-21 03:13:16 PM
Him wearing a helmet ruins any potential irony.
 
2006-06-21 03:13:58 PM
WE have mandatory seatbelt laws here in MA.

Except on school buses. Cuz, that would be just stupid.
 
2006-06-21 03:14:14 PM
has anybody ever even read the definition of irony? everybody assumes it has to be the opposite of what is expected. guess what! It's not! Irony is a very loosely defined term; you can find it in pretty much every situation in life.

this situation, like pretty much every other article on fark today, is ironic. it is not the HEIGHT of irony, but it is, without a doubt, a textbook example of irony. anyone who says otherwise is both a know-it-all, and an ignorant retard who should not have passed high-school english
 
2006-06-21 03:14:17 PM
Major Thomb: Him wearing a helmet ruins any potential irony.

I think its ironic because he WAS wearing a helmet (it didnt even help), returning from a rally opposing helmet laws.
 
2006-06-21 03:14:33 PM
JRHoward
That's ridiculous. If you can find an insurance company willing to insure you, that's between you and them and is none of anyone else's business.

What about the other people who pay for insurance from that company? Should I have to pay more because some idiot didn't wear his helmet and is now a vegetable, living off of the insurance that I help pay for?

And how much do you think insurance would be if the company that offered it specially catered towards idiots who didn't wear seatbelts or helmets?
 
2006-06-21 03:14:44 PM
In the case of seatbelts, how can a 150lb+ meatbag tossed around in a car not be a danger to a seatbelted child in a car accident? How about we ammend seatbelt laws so that seatbelts are optional for everyone over 18 ONLY if everyone in the car is over 18. Also, if you are hurt in a car accident where you are not wearing your seatbelt, you are ineligible for ANY government assistance related to those injuries.

Nobody has the "right" to take a child's life in their hands.
 
2006-06-21 03:14:45 PM
The Icelander: I repeat: It's not about protecting YOU. It's about protecting ME from being gouged by the insurance company by idiots like YOU.

I agree. Furthermore, I think we should have mandatory bathtub pad laws so that my homeowner's insurance won't go up because of idiots slipping in the tub. And we should ban fast-food to protect my rates from be jacked up by all the fatties having heart attacks.

/when is personal responibilty going to come back in fashion?
 
2006-06-21 03:15:09 PM
mc frontalot: they affect everyone's insurance premiums when they spend the rest of their lives on life support,

We need a pull the plug clause for people that stupid.

But, come on now, if anyone had ever been hit by a flying body after an accident, you know it would have made the main page.
 
2006-06-21 03:15:14 PM
The Icelander

You call it nanny-state.

I call it making sure my insurance doesn't go up because you can't be bothered to take basic safety measures.


I presume you're in favor of the government enforcing you to upgrade your old car to have ABS, have airbags installed throughout your vehicle, have chains in the winter, make sure your fluids are always topped off and your wiper blades fresh? Let's make sure you're buckled in and wearing a helmet, and while we're at it let's put cameras everywhere, GPS in your vehicle, and a computer that communicated continually with local law enforcement to be sure that you're following all laws.
 
2006-06-21 03:15:42 PM
JesseL: when is personal responibilty going to come back in fashion?

When republicans create a fiscally responsible budget?
 
2006-06-21 03:15:44 PM
submitter needs to look up irony.

biker was wearing a helmet


in other news, biker was (suspected to be) drunk. has nothing to do with ABATE or the ongoing DEbate over helmet laws.
 
2006-06-21 03:15:55 PM
I dont wear a seatbelt because i have a firm belief that i will be thrown to safety. super man watch out here i come
/yip, yip yippeee weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
///\\\ wolverine healing factor commence
 
2006-06-21 03:15:57 PM
The Icelander

You call it nanny-state.

I call it making sure my insurance doesn't go up because you can't be bothered to take basic safety measures.


And I call you an idiot. For every biker who becomes a vegetable (and costs insurance money) because he didn't wear a helmet, there is a biker who died (and didn't cost insurance money) because he didn't wear a helmet. It works out about even.
 
2006-06-21 03:15:58 PM
If he wasn't wearing a helmet would have been in a different place in-time, by several seconds and probably still be alive. Those damn helmets are a menace to society.

Ride helmet-free and live!
 
2006-06-21 03:16:12 PM
"Those damn libs can't tell me to wear a helmet!"

*crash*

"OMG, I can't believe conservatives are against socialized medicine!"
 
2006-06-21 03:16:42 PM
I'm not trying to start a flame war here at all. I'm just bringing up my thoughts and want to get information and comments on them.

A seatbelt saved my life once and not having one on saved my boyfriend (different crash).
 
2006-06-21 03:17:23 PM
JRHoward: That's ridiculous. If you can find an insurance company willing to insure you, that's between you and them and is none of anyone else's business.

If you knew how health insurance works, you wouldn't say that. Health insurance essentially pools together everyone's resources; the premiums you pay don't cover just you, they cover all insurance payers. Insurance payers who take care of themselves, e.g., wearing helmets, exercising, etc, end up paying much of the costs of those who don't take care of themselves.
 
2006-06-21 03:17:50 PM
Shadow Fairy

Just because you paid in thousands and thousands to the insurance co., don't mean they owe you anything other than honoring the contract you signed with them.

Your rates are based om a combination of the risk they agree to assume by insuring you and the amount they expect to pay out in the case of a claim (and admin and profit, which I agree can be a ripoff).

You may be out $1,000s to them, but they pay out $100,000s for extended medical care...

And if you think their profits are excessive, become a shareholder and get some of it back.
 
2006-06-21 03:18:04 PM
If you choose to not wear a seatbelt or helmet, as a tax payer can I choose to not have my taxes pay for your body clean up?
 
2006-06-21 03:18:07 PM
Shadow Fairy

What if you've paid thousands and thousands of dollars into insurance over the years. Why shouldn't you get it back? Its your "just in case" money. The insurance company gets to make money off of your money then they refuse to give it back to you based on their judgement of weather or not you deserve it?

Or am I completely out to lunch?



You are out to lunch. (or maybe just a snack)

But think about this (and i'm typing slow here....)
How do you think they pay Mrs Smith $350000.00 when her house burns down, when she has only paid $2500 in premiums? huh?

How can they do that, pay all thier employees and still make a profit?

/actually some life insurance provide a cash rebate.
 
2006-06-21 03:18:11 PM
The Icelander - right on! From reading the rothlisberger articles, I noted that half of bikers do NOT have insurance. So who pays for massive head injury treatments when someone wants to look like a rebel? We all do.

/most HD riders are poser old men weekend James Dean wanna be's
//rides every day, in Texas, in leather, with much ink
 
2006-06-21 03:18:15 PM
scseth: I think its ironic because he WAS wearing a helmet (it didnt even help), returning from a rally opposing helmet laws.

You can oppose helmet laws and still always wear a helmet.

RTFT.
 
2006-06-21 03:18:16 PM
Most motorcycle deaths are caused by injuries to the chest. Helmet laws are a slippery slope of government eliminating our rights to choice. I ride and wear a helmet by choice but don't want it legislated that way.
 
2006-06-21 03:19:06 PM
"But, come on now, if anyone had ever been hit by a flying body after an accident, you know it would have made the main page."

People are injured/killed in car accidents from funny things like:

Pens on the dashboard,

pets that fly thru vehicles and break necks

occupants heads smashing into eachother
 
2006-06-21 03:19:16 PM
I wear a seatbelt, and wear a bike helmet (bicycle, not motorcycle, but still). I think that mandatory laws aren't the answer. My negligence with regards to these matters does not place anyone else in danger. If I don't wear those, and I get hurt in an accident, I get what I deserve. (Children are an obvious exception, most of them aren't old enough to know better. Of course, lots of adults are too stupid to know any better.) Someone argued that youan't control your vehicle when you are being thrashed about in the interior of a car. True, but I've never en thrown about that heavily inside a car until I have already farked up the driving and hit something or gone off the road.

In short, just because you oppose a mandatory helmet law doesn't mean you wouldn't wear one.
 
2006-06-21 03:19:29 PM
fatal_exception

I'm okay with the idea of helmets and seatbelts being optional as long as the insurance companies don't have to pay out for death and injury if it's shown they weren't used.

Sigh. Didn't we cover this just a couple days ago?

How often do you go to the gym? How many times a month do you eat fast food? What are your hobbies? All of us do things that potentially cost insurance companies money. Don't single out motorcyclists unless you also want to get your favorite hobbies banned, or somebody looking over your shoulder as you order a greasy McDonald's burger.
 
2006-06-21 03:19:41 PM
Shadow Fairy: I'm not trying to start a flame war here at all.


This is Fark just saying that the sky is blue or the sun sets in the west will start a farking flame war.
 
2006-06-21 03:20:16 PM
ScreamingInDigital: RTFT

Maybe if you stopped screaming at people you would realize I did read the thread and was commenting on a more humorous side-thread about what is irony. But if you want to get all agitated about the definition of irony by all means be my guest.
 
2006-06-21 03:20:32 PM
Most motorcycle accidents are SINGLE vehicle events. Cyclists loosing control in or misjudging turns.

Helmets WOULD help
 
2006-06-21 03:21:07 PM
It's been said several times in different ways, but I'll say it again 'cause it probably needs it.

If you don't want to wear a helmet or seatbelt, don't. If you really care that little about your existence, then you're probably careless about other little things, like watching where and how the hell you drive, and likely don't care too much about people around you. By all means, crash your vehicle and be flung about the highway like a ragdoll. As long as my insurance premiums don't have to go up because of your dumb ass, please, gamble with death. It will be bleach in the local gene pool, which is badly in need of a cleaning now anyway.

Furthermore, it should be mandatory to show films like Red Asphalt --which they never showed us at my school because they're punks, >:( -- to show kids exactly what CAN happen to them if they drive stupid/drunk/without helmets or safety belts. After that, if they continue to be stupid, it's their problem, because we showed them the consequences and they chose to ignore it.

The reason I'm a safe driver is not just because I follow the farking traffic laws, but I'm compensating for the stupid shait other people pull. I'm always looking out for the asstard in the SUV talking on the cell phone, the f*cknut in the sports car crossing lanes randomly at +20mph the speed limit without turn signals because HE MUST HAVE THAT EXTRA CAR LENGTH, old grannies who sit in the right lane with their left blinker on while doing 45... I drive safely not just for myself, but out of consideration for others, too. It's pointless to try and shave off that extra five minutes if it's gonna get you hurt. I'd rather be five minutes late than be a red smear on the pavement.

Okay, sorry, stepping down from the soapbox. Lemme close my tags while I'm at it... /rant.
 
2006-06-21 03:21:25 PM
Shadow Fairy

your quote is from jerry seinfeld
 
2006-06-21 03:21:47 PM
Shadow Fairy
What if you've paid thousands and thousands of dollars into insurance over the years. Why shouldn't you get it back? Its your "just in case" money. The insurance company gets to make money off of your money then they refuse to give it back to you based on their judgement of weather or not you deserve it?

Or am I completely out to lunch?


You're not just out to lunch, you're a white chick on vacation in Aruba.

Insurance is like a bet. You're effectively saying "I bet $x/month I'll have an accident." The insurance company is saying "I bet $y you won't have an accident."

The money for the bet on the part of the insurance company comes from two sources: The bets of other customers of the insurance company, and capital gains based on the investments of the insurance company.

Insurance works by calculating probabilities and risks, and properly charging people so that the house (insurance company) always wins more than it loses, thereby making a profit and fulfilling its fiduciary duty to its shareholders. The more people who participate in insurance, the larger the population, and the lower the amount that needs to be collected to cover any potential "lost bets." This is why, generally, large insurers have lower rates than small insurers.

If it worked the way you postulated, someone who's held a $30/month policy would only be able to get $30 out if they had an accident after the first month.

\Held insurance agent license at one time
\\Might be a little rusty.
\\\Will appreciate corrections
 
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