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(BBC)   British power company creates 450 jobs by closing its call center in India and onshoring the jobs back home, saying it is "not prepared to achieve savings at the risk or expense of customer satisfaction"   (news.bbc.co.uk) divider line 170
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5764 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Jun 2006 at 8:02 PM (8 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2006-06-15 09:28:53 PM
I hope Pakistan gets a holy righteous bug up it's ass and nukes India soon. The place is a shiathole and the world would be better off if India was a giant radioactive crater.
 
2006-06-15 09:32:30 PM
biggeek - What I don't get is how someone can get off on imagining a child, say an indian child, learning to read and write and being full of her early abilities and loving her family and feeling safe in the arms of whichever parent, suddenly being turned into a patch of ash after a second or so of screaming. Do you have to be an American to be so casual about this, or can any psychopath do it? How do you get to get off on so many at once?
 
2006-06-15 09:53:09 PM
Gavino:Do you have to be an American to be so casual about this, or can any psychopath do it?

Hey now, we don't have a monopoly on morans here... there's plenty all over the world.

Before 9/11 I'd have argued with you about how Americans aren't generally like that and everything, but these days I just can't do it since I'm not sure I'd believe myself.

There are some reasonable ones left, it's just the yahoos are louder. Also keep in mind that this is Fark, often the tard magnet of the internet and living proof that just because someone can voice their opinion freely doesn't mean they should.
 
2006-06-15 09:56:33 PM
biggeek

Just curious are you Pakistani ? Ever been to Pakistan?
 
2006-06-15 09:57:32 PM
biggeek:


I hope Pakistan gets a holy righteous bug up it's ass and nukes India soon. The place is a shiathole and the world would be better off if India was a giant radioactive crater.


You say that now, but when you have to go out to the Quickie-Mart for condoms at two A.M. and there is no one there to let you in the store, you might feel differently.
 
2006-06-15 09:58:11 PM
The idea that a business' first responsibility is to shareholders is a recipe for disaster. Think about it, what does it take to do business and keep doing it? Customers and employees. If they're not happy, it doesn't matter how happy the shareholders rae. Also not all large corops are public, so not many shareholders.

The thing to remember is the mantra of the shareholder and EPS, earnings per share, is only 20 years old. Can thank men like Carl Icahn for it. In order to get money for corproate raiding he had hoodwink people. How to hoodwink them? Buy a company, gut, point to increased earnings per share and ask for more money. The companies weren't making more money they were gutted, so of course their earnigns went up. Granted sometimes very briefly.

Anyone who worries about earnings per share first above other things deserves to end up investing their life savings in the next Enron. Anyone who cares more about shareholders than how a company treats customers and employees? Ditto. Mean? Not really. Just honest.
 
2006-06-15 09:58:43 PM
Given the choice between paying more to talk to a person that can speak good clear English and actually solve my problem and paying less to speak to a clueless Indian that will not end up solving my problem I will gladly pay more.
 
2006-06-15 09:59:41 PM
crypt0z0ic: You say that now, but when you have to go out to the Quickie-Mart for condoms at two A.M. and there is no one there to let you in the store, you might feel differently.

not saying that anything should be done to India, but if it were destroyed, I'm pretty sure people who came to the US (or wherever) from there would still be alive.
 
2006-06-15 10:00:13 PM
AtomicPenguin - I know you're right. I guess I just lost it in amongst the glass car park comments. FWIW, I'm partly (administrively) American and know very few people stateside who'd willingly cause harm to another person on a one to one basis, but the whole cheerleading psycho shiat is getting a bit much.
 
2006-06-15 10:00:17 PM
I feel bad for the poor Indians who lost their jobs.
 
2006-06-15 10:04:01 PM
crazy_gaijin:

...if it were destroyed, I'm pretty sure people who came to the US (or wherever) from there would still be alive.


Most people from India that I know are very family-oriented, so it stands to reason that they would catch the first flight there, to help their loved ones.
 
2006-06-15 10:07:26 PM
sonny_gordon: I feel bad for the poor Indians who lost their jobs.

First the Black Hole of Calcuatta, now this!
Oh the Huge Manatee!
 
2006-06-15 10:08:55 PM
*cough* Calcutta *cough*
 
2006-06-15 10:13:49 PM
Before handing out the hero medal, think this over.
It's a power company, who are they competing with?


Useful note for people who don't live in Britain: the utility industry is deregulated, and consumers in practically all parts of the country may, at will, choose between a number of different electricity, gas and water companies. So there is, actually, a reasonable amount of competition.
 
2006-06-15 10:18:13 PM
I can sum what is wrong with a lot of business execs up in one sentence: Cost is not a competitive advantage.

Anyone can make goods cheap. That will not distiguish you in the market. Someone will undoubtably be able to make the same good cheaper than you.

An ex-CEO of Continental during their restructuring said "Anyone can cut costs, it takes a true leader to build value."

As such, there have been many documented cases of companies leaving India: 1.) As their economy picks up, the cost savings aren't what they once were. 2.) As their economy grows, citizens with decent English proficiency are finding better jobs than 'call center agent'

JPMorgan Chase, Dell, and Capitol One are all companies that have left India (or at least part of their business did). It took Apple 3 months to reverse their decision to move a Call Center to India http://news.com.com/Apple+hangs+up+on+India+call+center/2100-1047_3-6079967.ht ml

Something like 60% of all Businesses that outsource their call centers don't meet their cost savings goals, and 80% see a significant increase in customer attrition.

It doesn't pay.

/aparently I've done some research on this...
 
G2V
2006-06-15 10:19:19 PM
Nobodyn0se
I hate to say it, but I think that was a dumb move. A company's loyalty is to its stockholders, and anything that drives costs down is good for stockholders.

And they probably have professionals who understand exactly that better than you. Do you really think they did this from the goodness of their hearts? Undoubtedly the cons outweighed the savings. Piss off the customers and you won't have any income to save.
 
2006-06-15 10:22:33 PM
MaximX

I work in tech support for a major company and honestly, you have NO IDEA what it's like dealing with people who can't find the start button on their computer.. all day.. everyday

Er, that's not how the cliche goes.

/what?
 
2006-06-15 10:33:38 PM
Funny thing is outsourcing actually _creates_ jobs in many cases... by saving money in these positions, it creates resources (saved cash) for new R&D and other higher positions.

Perhaps I should dig out my old (couple month old) college textbooks, but I'm lazy.
 
2006-06-15 10:42:37 PM
Before handing out the hero medal, think this over.
It's a power company, who are they competing with?

Useful note for people who don't live in Britain: the utility industry is deregulated, and consumers in practically all parts of the country may, at will, choose between a number of different electricity, gas and water companies. So there is, actually, a reasonable amount of competition.

Not so with the water, your stuck with whoever serves your area. This is great news tbh now if only 3 would do the same maybe i wouldnt get disturbed by sales calls everytime i watch a film, i swear they know sometimes......
 
2006-06-15 10:49:43 PM
Too Bad for the Dirkas. This is the first example of many hopefully.
 
2006-06-15 10:52:28 PM
British - Gavino: I guess I just lost it in amongst the glass car park comments.

Ahem, let me help. I speak fluent American!

'Murican - I guess I just lost it in amongst the glass parking lot comments.

I spent quite a few years in Hong Kong and met citizens from all over the world, and the British and Australians were, by far, the most fun to hang out with. The Canadanians were just as nice, but they didn't seem to have the same droll sense of humor.

Indians and Pakistanis were also nice. In fact, the only time I wanted to punch someone was in an argument I didn't start with some asshat from Indonesia who had about as tolerant a worldview as Fred Phelps has.

The French? Perfectly fine, even though I'm sure they talked about us behind our backs. The Spanish? Wonderful. Germans? Err, great as long as dinner conversation didn't require small talk. They don't seem to have a talent for it.

Asians were also very polite, with the exception of the native Cantonese on HK island itself - they had developed a somewhat pushy outlook on life because it was the only way to get things done.

And a special shout out to any citizen of a country that was a member of the former Soviet Union. Not only can those people drink, they can tell you a great story at the same time.
 
2006-06-15 10:52:30 PM
Sure they created British jobs, but they took away jobs from Indians!
 
2006-06-15 10:52:34 PM
Guess you could say this company did the needful.
 
2006-06-15 10:55:35 PM
"oil companies in the mid-1930's were doing the right thing..."

WHo the fark said anything about right and wrong? I'm not arguing right and wrong, I'm arguing good business and bad business. And those examples you gave were examples of good business.


"If they simply shot employees in the back of the head..."

This and the other examples you gave are ILLEGAL. No matter what news services try and tell you, large corporations try to keep their illegal activities to a minimum.
 
2006-06-15 10:58:56 PM
Dave L: but the average Brit who calls isn't used to speaking 'international' English. Plus, the Indians usually learn with an american accent as well - so you get a sort of Amerindian mix that's just impossible.

The worst thing - and this is something that really, deeply offends me, for some reason, is when some error of translation that whoever is in charge over in India doesn't see gets past their management to the scripted workers.

Case in point: I had a Mobile phone company ring me up. Woman with an indian accent. Might be in England, might be outsourced.

Then she introduces herself as "Mathew".

If you are going to try and sell me expensive useless tat, then at least make sure you don't appear to be blatantly lying to the customers. I'm not going to buy anything from someone who is lying to me on something so obviously basic.
 
2006-06-15 10:58:57 PM
Can't we all just get along?

Without the British, the U.S., as we know it today, would not exist.
Without Americans, the British would've had their asses handed to them by the Germans over 60 years ago.

Let's stop the petty quibbling and pass some love around.
 
2006-06-15 11:00:38 PM
Nobodyn0se: This and the other examples you gave are ILLEGAL. No matter what news services try and tell you, large corporations try to keep their illegal activities to a minimum.

Wow. Just wow. Get your head out of the sand.
 
2006-06-15 11:04:40 PM
Outsourcing blows my mind. I work for a company that outsources writing and I get the raw documents to clean them up and edit them. My god. They could pay me what they pay me, plus what they pay these dudes to write this -- and no more -- and I'd give them ten times the quality.

I can see why they do it in some industries, but when it comes to call centers or writing -- where communication is key -- it blows my mind.
 
2006-06-15 11:15:40 PM
A company's loyalty is to its stockholders

Yeah, take a look at computer companies that have outsourced their customer/tech support. Their stock is down and customer loyalty is gone because of this. Who wants to pay $2000 for a computer and have this conversation:

hindu tech guy: hello, my name is Bob (Riiiight. Just keep saying that Apu)
me: I'm having a problem with my email.
hindu tech guy : OK my friend, lets start by formatting your hard drive.
me:
 
2006-06-15 11:16:33 PM
StripeyJammies

Without the British, the U.S., as we know it today, would not exist.
Without Americans, the British would've had their asses handed to them by the Germans over 60 years ago.


Oh god, not that chestnut again...
 
2006-06-15 11:21:27 PM
So it's now heroic to take from the poor and give to the rich?
 
2006-06-15 11:21:38 PM
"not prepared to achieve savings at the risk or expense of customer satisfaction"

That's the kind of thing you say if you hadn't done it in the first place.
 
2006-06-15 11:23:01 PM
Without the British, the U.S., as we know it today, would not exist.
Without USSR, the British would've had their asses handed to them by the Germans over 60 years ago.


Edited for truth.
 
2006-06-15 11:29:01 PM
Fine, fine. You all just ignore the part of the message that matters.

Love, people. Love.
 
2006-06-15 11:38:18 PM
I hate to say it, but I think that was a dumb move. A company's loyalty is to its stockholders, and anything that drives costs down is good for stockholders.

This company did something good for their customers, and good for their country, but bad for business.


Ever think that they did the PERFECT thing for business? Maybe the money saved on wages didn't make up for the money lost due to customer dissatisfaction? And when they play it off as acting in the interests of the customer, (and even themselves mentioned in the media for such a noble act!), they are probably even better off than when they started?
 
2006-06-15 11:39:54 PM
They didn't create 450 jobs. They fired 450 people and hired 450 different, whiter, people.
 
2006-06-15 11:56:08 PM
Man it is entertaining to watch globalism-as-religion start to undergo a period of self-correction.
 
2006-06-16 12:10:36 AM
Should brown people really be providing tec support anyways? Don't get me wrong, they make fine Athletes, cooks, pimps,,,, but tec support?
 
2006-06-16 12:14:09 AM
It's not just the Indian accents that are a problem - it's the phone connection. The person's voice will cut in-and-out while he's talking, which makes him almost impossible to understand.
 
2006-06-16 12:20:35 AM
Shouldn't that be "at the risk of customer dissatisfaction or "at the cost of customer satisfaction"?
 
2006-06-16 12:32:44 AM
Man it is entertaining to watch globalism-as-religion start to undergo a period of self-correction.

www.casefresh.com

/Everything ever said or written has potential for a Marvel Comics reference.
 
2006-06-16 12:33:42 AM
Ever think that they did the PERFECT thing for business? Maybe the money saved on wages didn't make up for the money lost due to customer dissatisfaction? And when they play it off as acting in the interests of the customer, (and even themselves mentioned in the media for such a noble act!), they are probably even better off than when they started?

That had occurred to me as well, but in my experience customers tend to overvalue themselves. The greatest profit margin tends to come from the sheepish customers who will pay for a service time and again regardless of its quality. The rolling stones who are always complaining about this and that don't make up quite the chunk of the pie that they think.
 
2006-06-16 12:41:31 AM
DrSiN

Without the British, the U.S., as we know it today, would not exist.
Without USSR, the British would've had their asses handed to them by the Germans over 60 years ago.

Edited for truth.


You *do* realize that the US taught the Russkys a thing or two about industrialization, and lended not just food and materiel but *whole factories* to them during WWII?

How about this for editing:

Without the English chunderheadedness in maintaining New World holdings while the French and Spanish were trying to offload theirs, followed by a case of "mad king", the US as we know it would not exist today.

Without German arrogance to take on two fronts at once, noting that one of those fronts was *Russia* and they began their campaign at the *wrong* time of year, and Hitler's insistence on letting the Allied bombers reach German cities just so the people could (theoretically) watch the Luftwaffe try to knock them out of the sky, they wouldn't have handed themselves their own asses.
 
2006-06-16 12:43:54 AM
Thanks Dr SIN.

That was really helpful. Douche.

Without oxygen, the Mongolians would have never been able to project a death beam to Mars that eventually ushered in the technology to make a dancing angle fall from the head of a pin.

/Makes as much sense as your insipid post.
 
2006-06-16 12:45:52 AM
If you keep a customer you would otherwise disenfranchise or raise revenues, it can have the same net effect as lowering costs. Aside from that, when you have a high degree of brand loyalty, it much easier to convince that customer to buy your premium products--and those are the the ones that usually have the highest profit margins
 
2006-06-16 12:46:03 AM
DrSiN: Without the British, the U.S., as we know it today, would not exist.
Without USSR, the British would've had their asses handed to them by the Germans over 60 years ago.


Oh what a fun game: simplify history into two sentences and try not to leave anything out!

Without the British and the French, the U.S., as we know it today, would not exist.
Without the U.S.S.R., the US, and the British, the Germans would have had a much more successful war.


Come on, people, it was a collective effort on everyone's part, both for the founding and growth of the U.S. and World War II. Of course, you could easily make the statement: if not for Hitler's incredible tactical stupidity during key parts of WWII, he could have conquered Europe.

Oooh, or an even better one: If any other group besides the Puritans had established themselves in the new world first, Americans wouldn't have gone collectively apeshiat over Janet Jackson's nasty floppy tittie during a SuperBowl halftime show."

Man, this could go on all night...
 
2006-06-16 12:53:57 AM
Lord Nimon: It's not just the Indian accents that are a problem - it's the phone connection.

That's the Voice over IP kicking in - some call centers in India (I'd venture a guess that it might be a majority) are set up, literally, in warehouse fashion with one fat pipe running to it to provide phone and internet services. If the load gets to heavy and the system wasn't designed correctly, one overloaded switch or router can get behind in managing the traffic.

I read a fascinating paper about a year ago that explained in detail how China was better suited for manufacturing because they have an infrastructure in place to transport finished product to the rest of the world. The paper argued that India was getting call centers because a) their population is learning English at a rate unmatched anywhere else in the world and b) call centers can be set up at a minimal cost, and you don't have to transport anything.
 
2006-06-16 12:55:09 AM
that should be if the load gets too heavy
 
2006-06-16 01:00:58 AM
Nash...don't fall for it. Trolling at it's finest.

I mean, who the hell could possibly think the US had anything to do with any wars in Europe? Or that the 'Merkins ever did anything to benefit anyone but ourselves?!?

What an ego-centric (or whatever farking -centric thing we're being blamed for this week) thing to hold on to.

Americans are to blame. Get it right. Conform!!! I once saw an unladen swallow taken down over the Canary Islands due to fatigue.

I had to make some creative XL spreadsheets, but I was able to (with the help of some heavy-duty drugs) prove that the US was responsible for the death of a creature.

I meant to publish, but I sobered up and realized how ridiculous the idea was.

I expect a financed bender this weekend when PETA cuts the commission check. It's pure gold! Who doesn't love an unladen swallow?
 
2006-06-16 01:09:13 AM
LordGarius: That had occurred to me as well, but in my experience customers tend to overvalue themselves. The greatest profit margin tends to come from the sheepish customers who will pay for a service time and again regardless of its quality. The rolling stones who are always complaining about this and that don't make up quite the chunk of the pie that they think.

Fair enough, but I think it would be safe to assume that the average sheepish customer doesn't spend NEARLY as much time talking to customer service as a very demanding customer. Either way, the customers who would pay for a service regardless of quality don't REALLY matter in this - or any other - case anyways. The money from them would be the same either way, so business don't need to focus on them. The only thing needed to make this a smart business move is to offset the increase in wages by at LEAST an equal amount in increased profit. This is made easier by the fact that a customer treated well often stays loyal to a specific company, so rather than just having the initial boost in profits (or perhaps a small decrease), more customers are likely to remain with the company in the long term.
 
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