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(Some Guy)   Let us not forget those who began the Nazi beatdown on this day in 1944   (historychannel.com) divider line 630
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16730 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Jun 2006 at 11:22 AM (8 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2006-06-06 02:20:53 PM
I'm just going to chime in with a big fat THANK YOU to all of the brave, hardworking folks who contributed to the Allied victory.

My WWII-vet grandpa (a bomber pilot) died when I was nine, but I've seldom been more proud of him. Cheers!
 
2006-06-06 02:21:41 PM
"Oppressors? Give me a farkin break. No one wants to hear it, especially not in this thread."
======================================================

I'm sure you don't. A lot easier to go on convincing each other that this was the greatest generation if no one brings up the truth.
 
2006-06-06 02:21:57 PM
Here's to my grandfather, George "Tony" Malyan. 4th Battalion of Her Majesty's Coldstream Guards. Hit the beach that day and still won't talk to me about the war. My mum said when he watched the opening scene of Saving Private Ryan, he said "Most of those lads will be dead before they ever get off the boat." Christ, I can't imagine knowing that.
 
2006-06-06 02:22:16 PM
/bow
/mourn
Thank you Uncle Bob, Uncle Eddie.
Thank you Dad, Bro

"It's the Soldier, not the reporter,
who has given us freedom of the press.

It's the Soldier, not the poet,
who has given us freedom of speech.

It's the Soldier, not the campus organizer,
who has given us freedom to demonstrate.

It's the Soldier, not the lawyer,
who has given us the right to a fair trail.

And it's the Soldier who salutes the flag,
who serves the flag,
whose coffin is draped in the flag,
that allows the protester to burn the flag"

- Adapted from Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, USMC
 
2006-06-06 02:22:23 PM
My grandfather was in the Army Air Corps. He built and maintained runways in Germany. One time they had to bulldoze an airfield so bombers could make emergency landings in Germany. There was a sniper in the treeline but they had to bulldoze the airway because there were bombers coming in. They kept sending out guys and they kept getting shot. About 3 of them. My grandfather was next. The guy on the bulldozer got shot and he was ordered to go out. (There were soldiers looking for the sniper, the guys in the bulldozer were bait I guess.) My grandfather got in the dozer and a shot rang out. He thought he was dead. He wasn't. The US soldiers hit the sniper.

Amazing how cheap life can be sometimes. Thanks for their service.
 
2006-06-06 02:22:56 PM
Devin172: Reality is never binary. There are always options.

This is not reality, this is a moral debate expressed in binaries.

You have the the choice to kill a man you've never met before, or to kill yourself, which one do you choose.

Don't wiggle around the damn question and just answer it
 
2006-06-06 02:23:22 PM
Tatsuma do you, like me, ever wonder a big "what if" The Madagascar Plan had been used, what would the world would be like today? It's staggering to think how many lives would have been saved and how different the world would be today if it had happened.
 
2006-06-06 02:23:23 PM
Tatsuma
Can you imagine how different the world would be, if Mexico had sided with the Axis?

The fence would be built a couple hundred miles to the south? :-P
 
2006-06-06 02:23:58 PM
You do know our government hired a lot of the high up nazis don't you? That and the fact that we waited to help until pearl harbor, yeah, real brave.
 
2006-06-06 02:24:46 PM
img428.imageshack.us

Best one I've seen ever. Ultracool.
 
2006-06-06 02:26:53 PM
Tatsuma


This is not reality, this is a moral debate expressed in binaries.

You have the the choice to kill a man you've never met before, or to kill yourself, which one do you choose.

Don't wiggle around the damn question and just answer it



Reducing your examples to binary sets in order to get an answer that fits into your argument is not proper. Not only is it intellectually misleading but it can, and often does, result in conclusions that are out of synch with real world situations. This makes such conclusions practically useless in terms of application.

Hence, I avoid answering binary questions entirely.


/let's keep this friendly
//having a pretty sh*tty day today (work/personal life)
 
2006-06-06 02:27:09 PM
amindtat: Tatsuma do you, like me, ever wonder a big "what if" The Madagascar Plan had been used, what would the world would be like today? It's staggering to think how many lives would have been saved and how different the world would be today if it had happened.

Hitler could have been remembered as one of the greatest 20th Century politicians.

Exactly what would have happened, had it not been for WW2. The man was destined for great things, he only chose to do a great Evil instead of Good.
 
2006-06-06 02:28:11 PM
tfangel

"You do know our government hired a lot of the high up nazis don't you? That and the fact that we waited to help until pearl harbor, yeah, real brave."

Our waiting was the decision of the powers of government. It had nothing to do with the common man who did the bleeding. We are discussing the soldiers, who went and fought and died. Only an ignoramus is incapable of seeing the difference.
 
2006-06-06 02:28:25 PM
Devin172:

Basically, you'd shoot him but don't want to say it out loud. i can understand.

/kidding
//well.. kinda.
///hope you'll have a nice day, let's drop it
 
2006-06-06 02:29:21 PM
My Dad served on a Navy carrier in the Pacific. A tail gunner on a dive bomber. He finished his Navy Tour mid-war and re-signed with the Army who put him on a sand dune in Tripoli. When the war ended he stuck around to train flight crews in Korea. Not being one to miss the party he spent a year in Viet Nam as a DoD consultant.

He has a Purple Heart. And My lasting respect.
 
2006-06-06 02:29:27 PM
I had three grandparents to thank for their contributions to WWII.

One grandpa who got a Bronze Star at Guadalcanal, one who risked his neck stringing wire for the Army (he did it again in Korea), and my grandma was a Marine ('was' only because she's passed away).

None of them talked about their experiences much. I think my maternal grandfather (the one who strung wire) was in Europe during this time period. He never even told my grandmother exactly what he did in the Army. Probably because she'd have worried too much, given the tendency of those who set up communications lines to get killed. I do have a vague memory of him mentioning V-E day, though.

My paternal grandfather finally told my dad his story and a couple others about Guadalcanal, because my dad found out about the Bronze Star while digging through old records. Apparently he and another guy rescued a number of injured troops while they were under heavy fire. I don't know all the details, though.

I don't know too much about my grandma's doings in the Marines, either, except I have an amusing anecdote. When she was 65, some guy tried to mug her in the women's locker room at the Y. She beat him senseless, called the cops, and detained him until they arrived.

I had a great uncle, too, who was involved in D-Day. He and another relative stormed Utah Beach. He's never talked about it, either.

Really, about the only ones who have are my dad, who was in First Recon in the USMC for two tours of duty in 'Nam, and my uncle, who was an officer in the USMC. I had another uncle on my mom's side who was in 'Nam, too, but I haven't heard any of his yarns about it.

I'm actually the first one in my direct family line (eldest son of the eldest son, etc...), that I know of, who hasn't joined up. I had relatives in WWI, the Civil War, the Mexican-American War, the American Revolution (an ancestor on my mom's side rode with Paul Revere). If we go back far enough on my dad's side, I have relatives who also fought in the Texas "War for Independence," and a Bavarian general.

I'd join up, too, if it weren't for the fact that our current President is a worthless bum, and the war in Iraq is a farce.
 
2006-06-06 02:29:33 PM
Thanks to all the vets who gave what they had on that day, and every other time freedom has been on the line. We truly appreciate it - not just Americans, either: Thanks to all the French, Poles, Canadians, Brits, and everyone else who fought for our freedom.
 
2006-06-06 02:29:39 PM
 
2006-06-06 02:31:17 PM
I don't always agree with Tatsuma, but I do agree with his assessment of the baby boomers. I am a child of baby boomers. I have watched my parents and relatives. I have noticed that as they lean, so does our political spectrum. A generation that doesn't accept responsibility very well (if at all). It is never their fault.
 
2006-06-06 02:32:02 PM
Mihail: 90% of the fighting was done in the soviet union, yeah congrats to a general who did 2% of the remaining 10%.


History is not your strong point eh? The Russians were a valiant people fighting for their survival and they deserve much credit for the success of the Allies in the war. So also do the partisans and resistance fighters and especially the brave men who fought in the Pacific Theater. However, todays thread commemorates the bravery of the men, not the generals, who stormed those murderous beaches on June 6, 1944.

God bless the British, Canadian, Free French, Poles and American soldiers who launched the great assault on Fortress Europe. The world salutes you. You men deserve the all of the accolades in this thread and much, much more.
 
2006-06-06 02:32:02 PM
Tatsuma


Basically, you'd shoot him but don't want to say it out loud. i can understand.

/kidding
//well.. kinda.
///hope you'll have a nice day, let's drop it



Getting in the last word and then declaring a truce? Oh that's sly.


/Agreed
//It wasn't going anywhere anyway (because it was binary)
///ah-HAH
 
2006-06-06 02:32:28 PM
A great grand uncle of mine was an amphibious commander at Omaha beach. There's a pretty decent chance most of the men mentioned above served under him.

/Also had both Grandfathers in the war, in Europe and Asia, respectively.
 
2006-06-06 02:35:36 PM
They WERE the greatest generation because they would never have put up with the PC bullsh*t we put up with now. They would have never become second class citizens in their own country.
 
2006-06-06 02:35:52 PM
Just want to add to the other farkers who joined this thread to thank the men and women who stormed that beach that horrible day.
I pledge to defend your honor and sacrifice.
Thank you.
 
2006-06-06 02:39:43 PM
Lard_Baron: You got a site for RAF bomber crew?

Nope, but I certainly should have qualified: highest casualty rate amongst US forces. D'oh!

Of course, if you're going to throw a subgroup like "RAF bomber crews" into the mix, I'll just toss my "Canadian infantry on the very first landing craft to hit Juno". I'm guessing 100% casualties for those poor bastards. My point is: you can certainly select a special group that especially high casualties, but as far as branches of the Armed Forces go...

I guess from that POV, "submarine crews" is really an especially hard-hit subgroup of Navy.
 
2006-06-06 02:40:33 PM
Finally somebody mentioned the Coast Guard thank god for the "Hooliogan navy".



some WWII Coast Guard stats
www.60wwii.mil/Presentation/Education/FS_coastguard2.cfm
 
2006-06-06 02:41:10 PM
Okie Cynic

>"The Army Air Corp had the highest allied casualty rate of any service.
> Including the marines in the Pacific."

I'm pretty sure the submarine service actually had the highest rate of U.S. services. Something like 20%.


630 U-Boats were lost and out of 40,000 U-Boat crew members, only 13,500 survived. This was the greatest losses suffered by any branch, of any service, of any nation involved in WWII, the next closest being the losses suffered by allied bomber crews.

So yes, the German submarine service. Followed immediately by allied bomber crews.
 
2006-06-06 02:41:22 PM
WWII v. Iraq

What was the difference?

1940's Axis__________________________2000's Axis
------------------------------------------------
Dictator Dictator & Islamic nutjob
kills thousands kills thousands
Pearl Harbor 9/11 (more die than PH)
Freedom threatened Freedom threatened
Public supports effort Public whines

__________________________________________________

Difference between then and now: Then, the countries we fought wore uniforms. Today, they are unidentifiable without peeing off the politically correct police. Then, this country was populated by people who had to make sacrifices every day, earned livings and did more with less. Today, country is populated by people who sue because the "coffee was too hot" and complain that their $60,000 Caddy is fuel efficient.

/personal opinion
//you know it's true
///get off my lawn
 
2006-06-06 02:42:17 PM
wraithmare: Also let's remember the brave soldier who never existed who allowed the invasion to happen with less Nazi forces than normal. British and U.S. forces cooked up some very nice false intellegence for this.

Go find a copy of the book "The War Magician". It's amazing reading. A professional British magician named Jasper Maskelyne used his talents to help misdirect the Nazi's in all sorts of amazing ways. I've read that a movie based on him is in the works.
 
2006-06-06 02:42:32 PM
"They WERE the greatest generation because they would never have put up with the PC bullsh*t we put up with now. They would have never become second class citizens in their own country."

Translated into English, they were racist, sexist, homophobic, and it made life easier for them, the straight white males.
 
2006-06-06 02:44:52 PM

It's more important for me to be killed for refusing to do something that goes against my values so much than to live and do it, just for survival's sake.


I always say that I would rather be shot in the chest than shot in the back.

On another note:
I got to talking to this old gent, about 90 years old, and I noticed he had pins and patches on his jacket that were military related. I casually asked him if he was in the war, and he said that he was. I wasn't going to pry because the last thing I wanted to do was bring up old memories as he was having his morning coffee, staring off at the mountains. After a couple of minutes of silence he said out of the blue "the SS, those guys were the bastards. They knew what was going on. The infantrymen were for the most part clueless".
Another minute of silence went by..I didn't know what to say, but I had a million questions that I wanted to ask him. The only thing I managed to utter was "did you keep anything from the war". He said "I got rid of all that shiat." Got up, shuffled to his car and drove off".

Don't really have a point to the story but I thought I'd share as this has been my only q+a opportunity w/ a ww2 vet.
 
2006-06-06 02:46:06 PM
TheWolfdog

Does anyone else have profound interest in WWII for no reason at all? I'm well displaced from that generation at 25 years old but have always found myself drawn into the history of events.

Yep. I'm 37, but continually fascinated by that era.

My only living grandfather is 87yo. He's a very quiet, polite, gentlemanly, retired Tennesseean farmer. Salt-of-the-earth type. Dyed in the wool democrat. Very hesitant to talk of his ww2 experiences.

Only recently did I find out that my beloved gentle gramps...was a sniper in the war.(!)

Still, he won't talk about it.
 
2006-06-06 02:47:57 PM
FleaRHCP: Translated into English, they were racist, sexist, homophobic, and it made life easier for them, the straight white males.

Don't you have a bridge to hide under?
 
2006-06-06 02:48:15 PM
RIP Angus Martin, HMCS
RIP Robin Brooks, HMRCR

/Miss you, grandpas
 
2006-06-06 02:49:01 PM
tfangel,

That and the fact that we waited to help until pearl harbor, yeah, real brave

Tell the merchant marines who died at a sickening rate who, defenseless, had to navigate a Nazi stranglehold of submarines and dive bombers to deliver supplies to England in it's greatest time of need.

Tell that to the Flying Tigers who voluntarily left the US armed forces to become mercenaries to defend China and Burma from a vastly larger Japanese air force.

Tell that to Billy Fiske and the other US pilots who, seeing the Nazis burn and pillage Europe, voluntarily went to the trouble to get British citizenship (or in some cases just flat out lied about it) just so they could join the RAF and defend Great Britain during the blitz. We had our first fighter aces in WW2 before we were even in the war.

And all of this happened before December 7th, 1941.

So shut thine piehole. We were doing everything we could above and below the table beforehand to stem axis expansion. Pearl Harbor just made it official.
 
2006-06-06 02:49:09 PM
Yeah...

I'm gonna go ahead and say "God bless each and every soldier who fought in World War II and on D-Day," then back very quickly out of this thread.
 
2006-06-06 02:49:33 PM
FleaRHCP: Translated into English, they were racist, sexist, homophobic, and it made life easier for them, the straight white males.

Yes. America is a very evil place. You should give it back.

If you minded your own business, all of Europe could be one glorious socialist utopia after the defeat of Hitler! We had a great plan for the working families of Europe, but you American sexist, racist, homophobic, capitalists wanted it all for yourself!
 
2006-06-06 02:52:21 PM
WWII Casualties by Country

Pretty good list of countries and the price they paid.
 
2006-06-06 02:52:43 PM
"Don't you have a bridge to hide under?"

I guess that's a good tactic, once you realize there is nothing you can do to dispute what I said...
 
2006-06-06 02:55:00 PM
www.recolored.com
 
2006-06-06 02:55:36 PM
www.mullings.com

Thanks fellas.
 
2006-06-06 02:55:45 PM
Thank you Dad.
Thank you Uncle Billy.
 
2006-06-06 02:55:54 PM
FleaRHCP: I guess that's a good tactic, once you realize there is nothing you can do to dispute what I said...

The moon is just an illusion made by UFOs and it's really only a big rock

Now, prove to me that this is not true

Oh wait, you can't?? IM RITE LOL!
 
2006-06-06 02:55:55 PM
RIP Uncle Leo, Grandpa Frank, and the rest of your brothers.

I never knew my grandfather, but he had quite the experience in the war. He fought against Rommel in Africa, went through Italy and then into Germany. Somewhere in the middle of this, the War Department sent home a telegram stating that he had been killed in action. During his funeral a few days later, another telegram was received stating that a mistake had been made and that he was actually ok. His older brother Leo was in England and didn't find out about this until after the war. His other brothers were sent home for the funeral from training in the South (home was in northern Michigan). He ended the war with two Purple Hearts and also a Bronze Star. I guess he was supposed to get a Silver Star too but he never followed up with the paperwork. My grandmother recently gave me a neat scrapbook with all of his medals and telegraphs from the War Department, etc. Something that I really treasure.

Uncle Leo passed away just last Friday. I'm really going to miss him. He was the only one of my great uncles that I got to know. He was stationed in England for a decent part of the war and entered Europe sometime after D-Day. He fought through France to Germany and when the Nazis surrendered was stationed as a peacekeeper or patrol or whatever.

Probably the most interesting thing is when my grandfather was marching on the way to Germany. Apparently Leo rode by on his motorcycle. They hadn't seen each other since saying goodbye when Leo shipped out in 1942 or so. My grandpa stopped marching and his officer got all pissed and he said that his brother just rode by and they hadn't seen each other in two years, etc. His commander let him hop on a bike and chase Leo down. They spent the rest of the day catching up and whatever. I just always thought this was really neat and one of those one in a million type things.

Thank you to everyone served and helped give us an America where we can become as fat as we want to be. Truly the greatest generation.
 
2006-06-06 03:00:21 PM
Parkeway,

WWII v. Iraq

I saw what I thought was an astonishing documentary on the History Channel not so long ago.

It delved into the history of the Baathist movement and drew parallels from WW2 to modern times. It was very chilling.

The Baathist movement was directly inspired by Mein Kampf and German docrine and the entire idea was to encourage the exact same 'master race', in this case Arabs, to cleanse their homeland, etc. right up to and including terrorism. It hadn't occured to me the coinciding of the reshuffling of the middle east and the seeds planted by the Nazis during and immediately after WW2, the whole 'oppressed people' bit, and the rise of radical Islam. It never dawned on me that Islamofascism was a direct descendant of the mother of all Fascism, the Nazis.

Looking through that prism at modern day behavior of the Irans, Iraqs, Syrias, and supposedly 'freelance' terrorists (Al Qaida, etc) everything makes crystal clear sense right down to the demonization of the Jews.

They literally are trying to pull off the exact same crap Hitler did.
 
2006-06-06 03:00:25 PM
fishrockcarving: One of my high school teachers drove one of those boats on D-day, and said that on one of his runs, not a single man got off his boat alive. The doors dropped to a long burst from an MG42 nest, and all 30 something men were killed in an instant.

I hope that he was able to come to terms with such a horrible image. That sounds like the kind of thing that could haunt a man for the rest of his life. Thanks to your teacher, and to all those troops on the LCI that never made it onto the beach.
 
2006-06-06 03:00:57 PM
FleaRHCP

Since war is so wrong and you are so smart, what would you have done against Hitler and the Germans?
 
2006-06-06 03:02:28 PM
"The moon is just an illusion made by UFOs and it's really only a big rock

Now, prove to me that this is not true

Oh wait, you can't?? IM RITE LOL!"

I guess I made the mistake of expecting a semi-intelligent response. Let me put it this way, in the hopes that you might be able to comprehend: I can find numerous scientists, physicists, astronauts, etc. to dispute what you said; can you find ANYONE to dispute the fact that what I said is generally true? Best of luck...
 
2006-06-06 03:03:55 PM
I heard the other day that World War II vets are dying at the rate of 1,000 per day.

I don't know if that number's true, but obviously, we won't have them around too much longer.

If you know one, tell them you appreciate what they did. If you're lucky, maybe they'll let you document it.

During my freshman year of college, I traveled from San Antonio to Panama City with a friend of mine and her family. We stayed overnight at her grandfather's house in Pascagoula.

Though he had fought in the Pacific, he had never really spoken about it. For some reason, he and I got to talking and he just opened up - his family was amazed and thanked me profusely afterwards for getting him to tell about a most significant chapter in his life.
 
2006-06-06 03:06:00 PM
Most people will know (hopefully) that there were many brave people of many nationalities involved in that operation and the entire war. And that other people made sacrifices and showed courage too, doesn't make the Americans involved any less heroic.

Those who do not learn the lessons of history are condemned to repeat them. Sad to say, a terrifying number of Americans do not know that we did not, in fact, single-handedly win WWII. Most do not know about the huge price paid by our allies. Hell, there are college graduates today who could not tell you what side the Russians were on, or just what New Zealand had to do with anything. The names Omaha and Utah beach might be familiar to some of you, but what about Juno, Sword, and Gold? Those were the British and Canadian landing points on D-Day; look 'em up.

I see all too many people of my own (baby boomer) generation and later who seem to think that because we won a world war all by ourselves sixty years ago, we can do it again no problem. We didn't, and we can't. But people who think we did make bad policy, and they vote for people who make bad policy. The wheel turns again.

There was more than enough heroism to go around. Acknowledging all of those who showed bravery far beyond anything that most of us (in an era when seeing 9/11 on TV causes "devastating emotional trauma") can possibly comprehend does not lessen the thanks owed to any one of them. I have never known a WWII veteran who was not quick to praise and thank the men of every nationality he served alongside.

There are civilians who deserve our thanks as well: the British who endured the Blitz and kept their industry functioning to supply the war effort; imagine 9/11 in your back yard, night after night. The underground in Europe, primarily French, that provided intelligence, carried out sabotage, and helped shot-down Allied airmen get safely home; their fate, when caught, is something most of us would prefer not to imagine. The indigenous people of the Pacific islands who became coastwatchers, guides, and innumerable other things that contributed to victory in the Pacific. And there were many, many more.

Yes, there were more than enough heroes to go around. They all deserve our acknowledgment and our thanks. It is no credit to ourselves to ignore any of them.

No, they weren't perfect and their world wasn't perfect. But what they did made it possible for us to strive to build a better world today. We stand on the shoulders of giants. We owe it to them, and to future generations, to be worthy of what they bought at such a high price.

As a lifelong civilian (physical disability made that choice for me) I'm not entitled to salute anyone. But I must add my voice to the thanks being given here to all those who fought against Hitler's tyranny, exemplified by the heroes who waded ashore in that branch office of hell called Normandy. Thank you, all of you. We haven't all forgotten.
 
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