If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(NBC30.com)   Man suing EMT's in dispute over whether or not he's dead   (nbc30.com) divider line 86
    More: Strange  
•       •       •

16000 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Jun 2006 at 2:50 PM (8 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



86 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all
 
2006-06-01 12:17:54 PM
Uhh... Whoops?
 
2006-06-01 12:22:50 PM
www.donaldsensing.com

/Obvious
 
2006-06-01 12:30:30 PM
On May 31, 2005, Kevin Crandall, a mason and blues musicians,

Did they cause his multiple personality disorder, too?
 
2006-06-01 12:42:53 PM
Is he taking him to Zombie Court?
 
2006-06-01 01:09:13 PM
good walls make good lightning rods.

Wonder if there's any chance his brain damage was caused by, of I don't know, being struck by LIGHTNING?
 
2006-06-01 01:48:27 PM
www.myimagebuddy.com

You done did it, you've opened the floodgates for the cavalcade of slightly relevant Monty Python quotes...
 
2006-06-01 02:22:24 PM
He is "a blues musicians". Nice. A failure to grasp the most basic elements of the English language such as pluralization is always the hallmark of good, quality reporting.
 
2006-06-01 02:28:15 PM
floor9: He is "a blues musicians". Nice. A failure to grasp the most basic elements of the English language such as pluralization is always the hallmark of good, quality reporting.

Probably MS Word's fault. They F7'd and didn't double-check what Word was recommending.
 
2006-06-01 02:55:45 PM
Crandall suffers from memory loss

Then how can he remember the whole ordeal?

/I keed. I keed.
 
2006-06-01 02:56:43 PM
I sue, therefore I am.
 
2006-06-01 02:56:46 PM
floor9: A failure to grasp the most basic elements of the English language such as pluralization is always the hallmark of good, quality reporting.

And headline writing.

/looking at you, submitter
 
2006-06-01 02:57:14 PM
Gotta side with the partially dane bramaged blues musicians in this one. Had they followed up with proper care he would still be able to play the harmonica. And, you know, work.
 
2006-06-01 02:58:23 PM
I find cutting off a person's head is a great way to find out if he's dead or not. And, best of all, none of those pesky false positives...
 
2006-06-01 02:58:43 PM
Wonder if there's any chance his brain damage was caused by, of I don't know, being struck by LIGHTNING?

Maybe some, but definitely some was caused by lack of oxygen to the dane.
 
2006-06-01 02:59:50 PM
Deserves a img.fark.com tag.
 
2006-06-01 03:00:50 PM
What's he biatching about, anyway? If being struck by lightning and being left for dead doesn't give you the blues, I don't know what will
 
2006-06-01 03:01:08 PM
muninsfire
Probably MS Word's fault. They F7'd and didn't double-check what Word was recommending.

Nah, Word doesnt recommend changing to that, but it also does not say that it is wrong.
 
2006-06-01 03:01:16 PM
I'm with wmoonfox ... the scary tag def. trumps the strange tag on this one.
 
2006-06-01 03:04:09 PM
Maybe he really was dead, and he hadn't done anything that he wanted.

Or perhaps he was still alive, and there was nothing he wanted to do.

/I am nerd, hear me roar
 
2006-06-01 03:04:23 PM
"Lightning Kevin Crandall" sounds like an awesome blues name...
 
2006-06-01 03:04:33 PM
I'm a former EMT (National Registry). I hope this guy wins. For one thing an EMT can not declair you to be dead. When I went through training we were taught that if you roll up on an accident, even if the head has been severed from the body, you still can't call the victim dead. Unless you are a doctor, or a medical examiner, and possibly a paramedic (not sure on that one), you treat the victim. Hell we weren't even allowed to say if a person had a broken bone, even if it was sticking out of their leg. EMTs are not doctors, they are there to scrap you up and provide basic life saving skills until you get to the hospital. Simple as that.

//former EMT
 
2006-06-01 03:05:14 PM
Next time, go TOWARDS the light, you whining bastitch...
 
2006-06-01 03:05:51 PM
Crandall suffers from memory loss, can only work part time and is struggling to sing and play the harmonica again

Looks like the EMTs were trying to do the world a favour
 
2006-06-01 03:05:57 PM
he's making a little birdhouse in his soul.

/me too!
 
2006-06-01 03:07:16 PM
skipsargent
For one thing an EMT can not declair you to be dead. When I went through training we were taught that if you roll up on an accident, even if the head has been severed from the body, you still can't call the victim dead

Wow...that must make for some interesting reports...

"When we arrived, the victim had a large laceration below his chin, and another above his shoulders. The space between the two lacerations was measured at six feet."
 
2006-06-01 03:07:54 PM
... according to his attorney, Stephen Reck. Reck Tuesday filed a lawsuit against the ambulance corps,

If I ever have to go by an alias, it's going to be "Reck Tuesday", even if it's from a reporter's poor grasp of English.
 
2006-06-01 03:08:25 PM
I was struck by lightning once. Or I put myself in a spot where lighting was going to strike, not like it was mapped out. (It was under a damn huge gas station canopy with big, metal, grounded supports)

I didn't get any cool super powers tho. Just a headache and it felt like all my muscles were used. I was sore in places I never even knew about.
 
2006-06-01 03:08:50 PM
As another former EMT, I can fully attest that skipsargent is telling the entire truth.
 
2006-06-01 03:10:50 PM
I will have add "attempt to resuscitate if struck by lightning" to list of things to tattoo across my chest.
 
2006-06-01 03:11:12 PM
Generissimo Francisco Franco unavailable for comment
 
2006-06-01 03:12:37 PM
se...se..se...seve...seve.seve..seven...
Wow seven times?
se...se..se...seve...seve.seve..seven...seventy seven ti...ti...tim...
 
2006-06-01 03:13:11 PM
I will have add "attempt to resuscitate if struck by lightning" to list of things to tattoo across my chest.

I always considered getting a tattoo on my chest that says "Quit laughing and revive me, you assholes!", but I haven't gotten around to it yet
 
2006-06-01 03:13:41 PM
It's a ZOMBIE! Kill it! Kill it!
 
2006-06-01 03:13:51 PM
WTF, I was counting on the filter to censor that...
 
2006-06-01 03:14:16 PM
Here in CA, there are certain circumstances under which an EMT can declare someone dead. A few of those circumstances are:

1) Decapitation.
2) Total incineration of torso and/or head.
3) Decomposition.
4) Total separation of vital organs from the body or total destruction of these organs accompanied by no detectable pulse or respiration. (or some obvious non-survivable injury)
5)Rigor Mortis.

I don't know what the laws in CT are, but this lightning strike patient clearly did not have any of the above.
Methinks some volly squad really screwed up. Should have at least hooked up a farkin' AED to the guy.
 
2006-06-01 03:15:18 PM
So... just how many musicians is he? (or should it be "are he"?)
 
2006-06-01 03:16:44 PM
WTF, I was counting on the filter to censor that...

Censor thyself!

/ @ssholes, b*tches, kuntz.
 
2006-06-01 03:17:36 PM
Oh, I found it.

TFA

Crandall suffers from memory loss, can only work part time and is struggling to sing and play the harmonica again, according to his attorney, Stephen Reck.

He is two musicians. Unless he forgot about others (maybe he was also a saxamophone player).
 
2006-06-01 03:21:46 PM
evilstein: Here in CA, there are certain circumstances under which an EMT can declare someone dead. A few of those circumstances are:

1) Decapitation.
2) Total incineration of torso and/or head.
3) Decomposition.
4) Total separation of vital organs from the body or total destruction of these organs accompanied by no detectable pulse or respiration. (or some obvious non-survivable injury)
5)Rigor Mortis.

I don't know what the laws in CT are, but this lightning strike patient clearly did not have any of the above.
Methinks some volly squad really screwed up. Should have at least hooked up a farkin' AED to the guy.


AAOS teaches...
1) Decapitation
2) Obvious mortal injury
3) Dependent Lividity
4) Rigor Mortis
5) Putrification

I think. You're right though, somebody farked up. Did they even check to see if he was breathing?

CPR does wonders, it really does.
 
2006-06-01 03:26:50 PM
mercator_psi: Maybe he really was dead, and he hadn't done anything that he wanted.

Or perhaps he was still alive, and there was nothing he wanted to do.


Fantastic TMBG ref.
 
2006-06-01 03:30:02 PM
"It's just a flesh wound!"

/obligatory MP reference
 
n3x
2006-06-01 03:33:19 PM
I'm a Connecticut EMT (in the SW region though, and the protocols do vary). We cannot declare someone dead. Only EMT-Is (I think) and EMT-Ps (I know) can declare death by looking at the monitor (asystole = dead). As they say, they're not dead till they're cold and dead (assuming they weren't in cold water, in which case they may be cold, dead and still able to be resuscitated). So, basically, it looks like they farked up. But it's hard to say without seeing the reports. Perhaps they slapped on an AED and it declined shocks, in which case they should have done CPR. Perhaps there was a medic there (sometimes there are fire medics on-scene) who may have declared him dead by looking at the monitor. People do regain spontaneous rhythms. However, my guess is they made a mistake (a big one...).
 
2006-06-01 03:36:38 PM
Yeah, as an EMT, I always get to let the paramedic make that call, at least until I go get myself some more book learning.

I know that per our protocols, we can say someone is obviously dead. But one of the exceptions to that rule is lightning strikes. In those, you're actually supposed to "reverse triage" and treat the people who look dead first (they actually have the best chance of being revived). However, I just know that from reviewing my protocols last week. If it had been several years (and really, how often do you go to a damn lightning strike?), I could see myself maybe forgetting that. Hope not. Either way, he's got a case, and deserves something.

On the other hand, if you read the story, it sounds like he spontaneously recovered. Most cases like that, giving CPR wouldn't do much but leave the guy with some broken ribs and a sore throat for his troubles. I have to think that as others have said, the damage was caused in part by the giant bolt of electricity that struck him. They should sue the Church, as God's agents, as well as the EMS service.
 
2006-06-01 03:36:46 PM
they slapped on an AED and it declined shocks, in which case they should have done CPR

I'm sure it didn't help when they used him to jump start the ambulance, either
 
2006-06-01 03:38:44 PM
'...a mason and blues musician[s]'

Good for him. I happen to be working on a 'Rythme and Carpentry' fusion myself right now.

\Ok, I got nuffin'
 
2006-06-01 03:38:45 PM
But I'm not dead yet. I think I'll go for a walk.
 
2006-06-01 03:39:35 PM
"AAOS teaches...
1) Decapitation
2) Obvious mortal injury
3) Dependent Lividity
4) Rigor Mortis
5) Putrification"

I have my AAOS book at home, but in this county, dependent lividity wouldn't be a circumstance, unless there was rigor mortis. why? Nursing home patients can display dependent lividity but still be alive.
I'm looking up the protocol right now.

(but in case anyone is curious, yes, an EMT most certainly CAN declare someone dead, under certain circumstances and if it's allowed by local protocols.)
 
2006-06-01 03:43:06 PM
Yup, found it:

"Santa Clara County Emergency Medical Services
Prehospital Care Manual
Page 1 of 2
II. Criteria

In addition to any specific criteria for withholding or discontinuing
resuscitation contained within individual treatment protocols, resuscitative
efforts may be withheld, discontinued and/or death pronounced under the
following circumstances:

A. Decapitation

B. Total incineration of the body

C. Decomposition of the body

D. Rigor mortis accompanied by post mortem lividity

E. A pulseless patient with total separation or obvious destruction of
the heart, brain, and/or lungs.

F. A pulseless and/or apneic patient with a valid Do Not Resuscitate
(DNR) directive (refer to Do Not Resuscitate (DNR) policy).

G. A patient who has been known to be pulseless and apneic for at
least ten (10) minutes as reported by a competent adult who has
given detailed observations of the patient prior to the arrival of the
EMT/paramedic and the patient exhibits all of the following
signs/symptoms:

1. Asystole (confirmed on semi-automatic defibrillator or in two
leads on a cardiac monitor) for sixty (60) seconds.

2. Fixed and dilated pupils.
"

The full protocol section is here (PDF) if you're wondering.

But our county usually requires 2 Paramedics on scene, so if I was the lone EMT on scene, I would simply have the FD Medic do the declaration instead.
 
2006-06-01 03:46:14 PM
Victor Lima Romeo Tango Alpha....

/phonetic alphabet anyone?
// got nuthin'
 
2006-06-01 03:46:29 PM
evilstein, aren't 1 and 2 a little redundant?

Good info, though. Thanks.
 
Displayed 50 of 86 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all



This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report