HappyDaddy:: Lots of phone numbers are in telephone books, and addresses. When was the last time someone asked you if that was ok? Poopyhead.

Yeah, but I'm paying my phone company 95 cents a month not to release that info to the public...

Sugar_Pie_Honeybunch:: the phone company already has my phone number...

No shiat, Sherlock. The both of you are still ignoring my original question: if it's no big deal for the NSA to snoop on your private data, then give it up here. Post those phone numbers that you think are private.

Or -- are you afraid that strangers might actually call you?

Pussies.

------------------
DrRatchet


US CODE TITLE 18 > PART II > CHAPTER 206 > § 3121

(a) In General.- Except as provided in this section, no person may install or use a pen register or a trap and trace device without first obtaining a court order under section 3123 of this title or under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (50 U.S.C. 1801 et seq.).

* A pen register is an electronic device which records all numbers dialed from a particular phone line.

** A trap and trace device records the originating phone numbers of all incoming calls on a particular phone line.

Yah, they better have a court order....
----------------------------------

I don't give a flying fark if they have a court order. They still need a reason and/or probably cause.

Every single person who uses those services should individually sue their phone provider, the NSA, and El Presidente Bush.

SpacePunk

Check my earlier post. According to El Presidente he doesn't need a court order, judicial review, probable cause, etc. He is the Decider.

Still need probable cause.

Cathedralmaster

I'm starting to rethink that whole John Titor thing.

My thoughts exactly. Quote from this visitor in 2000, a world away from where we are:

"You must realize that why people are fighting is more important that what they are fighting with. The conflict was not about taking and holding ground it was about order and rights. They were betting that people wanted security instead of freedom and they were wrong."

JB-NoHo, the NSA system is collecting numbers, not publishing them.

I hate to burst your bubble but anyone who sees your license plate can find your home address and come knock on your door, much less 'call' you. Its public information and has been for years. I've yet to see any democrats up in arms over it. That's why this is so amusing.

Did you understand what I just told you? If you have a driver's license, your HOME ADDRESS is public data - that is, unless you're too young to drive.

My phone is a mobile (Like most people) and I have caller ID (like most people) but when someone is banging on your front door its harder to ignore them.

Why aren't you outraged about driver's license data, hmmm?

JB-NoHo: The both of you are still ignoring my original question: if it's no big deal for the NSA to snoop on your private data, then give it up here. Post those phone numbers that you think are private.

Do you really not understand the distinction between the NSA having millions of phone numbers, unassociated with identifying information, and my listing my telephone number on FARK? This is a silly tactic that is not strengthening your position. Feel free to keep repeating it ad nauseam. Boogerbreath.

So what? If it helps frevent my lungs turning to jelly in some islamic poison gas cloud, then I'm all for it.

Not me. I'd rather be attacked than have my civil liberties infringed upon. Otherwise what's the point of living in America?

"Those who give up liberty for a little security deserve neither."

/benjamin franklin

Better to die on your feet than live on your knees.

HappyDaddy: Millions of phone numbers with no identifying information

How many phone numbers are duplicated? Or is a phone number a unique identifier? It doesn't surprise me to see you speak out on something you have no clue about, but this is just flat out stupid.

Bush lied yesterday when he said they arent "mining". They are mining.


Bush supporters can say its ok they are mining, but nobody can deny Bush lied about it.

And no, you fools, it doesnt help the "terrorists" to know this program exists. They may be evil but they arent stupid.

"I'd rather be attacked than have my civil liberties infringed upon."

Hilarious.

-----------------------
Sugar_Pie_Honeybunch


So what? If it helps frevent my lungs turning to jelly in some islamic poison gas cloud, then I'm all for it.

I don't think the democrats are going to be happy until we just give up - just say to the world, "Here's our country. Just come take it. We don't deserve it anyway."
-------------------------

Your not part of the solution, your part of the problem. By changing your behavior, by allowing the government powers that have only been seen in dictatorships, the former Soviet Union, and Nazi Germany... you tell the terrorist that they have won. They want you to be less free, so you obligingly roll over and give your freedoms away. Their work is done.

HappyDaddy: Do you really not understand the distinction between the NSA having millions of phone numbers, unassociated with identifying information, and my listing my telephone number on FARK? This is a silly tactic that is not strengthening your position.

No identifying info, eh? Since it seems they are capable of obtaining the phone records of US Citizens calling inside of the US, why wouldn't they be able to get a table showing who each of those phone numbers belong to and build the relation from it?

To everyone who uses Quest and is therefore smart:

Ever call anybody who has ATT?

Anybody plotting anything is usually aware that their adversary is using any means possible to detect and catch them.

Revealing this does not damage the War on Terra, but underlines the truth that Bush is a lying fink.

too scared to post real comments :|

Cowards die a thousand deaths, true Americans only one.

Mr. Clarence Butterworth

You have it backwards. It is better to live on your feet than to die on your knees.

10 points if you catch that movie reference. There, you even have a hint!

Reagrding the license plate thing. Would you have a problem if President Bush assigned a government employee to follow everybody everywhere and wrote down where the address of everywhere they went and then built a database around that info?

"I'd rather be attacked than have my civil liberties infringed upon."

Hilarious.

------------------------------------------------------------

keep laughin chuckles, and keep being afraid of the terrorist boogiemen like all of the 9/11 hijackers, oh wait! half of them have already been identified as being alive and well and not belonging to any terrorist organization! but stuff like that is even SCARIER than the threat, so youll just dismiss it as "liberal" rantings

Here's what eveyone should be concerned about. ANYONE can buy those records. No LAWS HAVE BEEN BROKEN. There are no laws protecting your privacy in this fashion.

For this to be illegal, new laws have to be passed to prevent it, like they did with patient confidentiality laws.

This is actually a good thing, since people are going to wake up and demand that companies can no longer share your personal data.

And in case you missed it, THEY ARE NOT RECORDING PHONE CALLS. No database can have a prayer of storing THAT MUCH info!

You have it backwards. It is better to live on your feet than to die on your knees.


Makes more sense my way. In that I'd rather die free than live as a slave.

Well, props to Qwest for making the NSA do their own dirty work, but seriously ...

worst phone company ev4r

"Reagrding the license plate thing. Would you have a problem if President Bush assigned a government employee to follow everybody everywhere and wrote down where the address of everywhere they went and then built a database around that info?"


Dude, is there a black helicopter hovering over your house?

What is this crap you are talking about? Seriously.

Sugar_Pie_Honeybunch: anyone who sees your license plate can find your home address and come knock on your door

Nice try, asshole. Turns out, my DL and license plate aren't connected to my home address.

So, again, I ask you -- if you're so damn willing to give up your civil rights, post your phone number, cell or landline, here.

'Cause, if you're not doing anything illegal, you've got nothing to fear. Right?

Unless, of course, you're a total farking hypocrite. Which I think you are...

C'mon. Show us yours, I'll show you mine. Seriously. Put up or shut up. But you aren't going to, are you? Because, deep down inside, you're just as afraid of what we're all afraid of.

Only difference is this: you'll pretend to support the assholes who are sucking our private data. We won't.

So... testicles in your court.

fark the democrats

i have to say that or i am automatically on the 'other' side

SELECT *
FROM
PHONECALL

-------------------------
Sugar_Pie_Honeybunch


"Reagrding the license plate thing. Would you have a problem if President Bush assigned a government employee to follow everybody everywhere and wrote down where the address of everywhere they went and then built a database around that info?"


Dude, is there a black helicopter hovering over your house?

What is this crap you are talking about? Seriously.
-------------------------

Black helicopters aren't needed. There are already test beds where license plates are constantly being scanned automatically. Even one where police cruisers are equipped to automatically scan plates, match them with a database, and nail people with warrants issued against them. It's not a high technological hurdle to have location information inserted into a database somewhere to facilitate tracking.

"I'd rather be attacked than have my civil liberties infringed upon."

I'm with you. I'll take my chances with the terrorists. At least I have the technical advantage over the garden-variety terrorist.

Someday people will see this as the biggest over-reaction in history.

Has he caught on to all of the phone calls we're making Osama's terrorist hotline? I knew it was too good to last!

JB-NoHo, why don't you take it down a notch? You're likely to get banned for a few days if you don't.

You should review the FARK FAQ. You can't possibly be that angry anyhow. Lighten up, Francis.

PottyMcNugg: No identifying info, eh? Since it seems they are capable of obtaining the phone records of US Citizens calling inside of the US, why wouldn't they be able to get a table showing who each of those phone numbers belong to and build the relation from it?


I believe I have said several times that they could do that, or something like it, but that there is no reason to do it unless there is a specific investigatory need to make the association. Once the government wants to make that association and determine the identity of the individual who has made specific calls, my view on the matter changes. Under those circumstances they should be bound by the legal standards necessary for placement of a pen register.

In that regard the SCt has said that the Constitution does not protect that information. The Electronic Communications Privacy Act requires a court order for placement of a pen register, but the only requirement for issuance of the order is government certification that the information likely to be obtained is relevant to an ongoing criminal investigation.

Sugar_Pie_Honeybunch: JB-NoHo, why don't you take it down a notch? You're likely to get banned for a few days if you don't.

So, translation, you're scared as fark of answering my question, right? It's a simple thing, honeybunch: give up your phone number here, or be forever a hypocrite.

And, I'm not that angry. Just asking...

DrRatchet: US CODE TITLE 18 > PART II > CHAPTER 206 > § 3121

(a) In General.- Except as provided in this section, no person may install or use a pen register or a trap and trace device without first obtaining a court order under section 3123 of this title or under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (50 U.S.C. 1801 et seq.).

* A pen register is an electronic device which records all numbers dialed from a particular phone line.

** A trap and trace device records the originating phone numbers of all incoming calls on a particular phone line.

Yah, they better have a court order....

Wow, that's more strict than the Supreme Court, which ruled in the past that a pen register was not a "search". Weird that FISA would actually be more restrictive.

Weird, and sad, all at the same time.

Sugar_Pie_Honeybunch: Hilarious.

No--I agree with him.

And I think you're a tool.

Our Founding Fathers fought against a threat that kept them afraid for their lives--for they would be [ rightfully! ] executed for treason.

They wanted freedom, and were willing to die for it.

You, obviously, would prefer the illusion of security to the knowledge of your rights.

You would prefer that the government take care of everything for you, and keep you safe in your bed at night.

You would prefer that the government takes care of all the 'evil terrorists!' that surely wait around each corner to blow you up as you walk about in the streets.

You would trust the government to only do what it said it would--they're "only going to correlate some telephone numbers" and they're "not going to be listening in on my conversations".

After all, if you've done nothing wrong, what do you have to worry about?

After all, if you're not a terrorist, the government wouldn't be at all interested in what you do, right?

After all, the government only wants what's best for you--to protect you, and keep you safe from all the scary islamic terrorists.

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

Our founding fathers, in the fourth amendment, stated that our effects, our papers--which can be extended to include all personal information--would be safe from unreasonable search and siezure--from being claimed by the government without a warrant. This Right is one of the essential liberties that Benjamin Franklin--who made this quote as American blood was being spilled on American soil--was speaking of.

You would give up yet another of your Rights to the government.

You would give up your freedom to the government.

I would not.

I want to keep my freedoms, my rights--and if that results in an "islamic gas cloud" that turns my "lungs into jelly"--if that results in my being blown into a hundred-thousand pieces by a bomb--if it results in my dying under a thousand tons of falling building--then at least I would have died a free man.

The state motto of New Hampshire says it all--"Live Free or Die."

I never realized how scared people are. Gawd, what a bunch of pu$$ies. OOoooh, Bin Laden is gonna come to Idaho and blow up my trailer! Please protect us from the terrorists and the drugs! Please print more money to fight the terrorist in Iraq or they will certainly cross the border to America!

Sugar_Pie_Honeybunch
JB-NoHo, why don't you take it down a notch? You're likely to get banned for a few days if you don't.
No, not really.

You should review the FARK FAQ.
That's more a system of suggestions rather than rules. You've got to be REALLY fowl to get kicked off Fark.

You can't possibly be that angry anyhow.
Ummmm, yeah, he probably IS. Welcome to Fark.

/BTW... what you're doing is called a flamewar; it happens ALL the time and Fark thrives on it
//noob

Anyone telling you this stuff is ok and not to worry is really trying to silence their OWN fears

All you have to do is look back in history at what human beings do when they get power

The current batch of humans are no different

You, obviously, would prefer the illusion of security to the knowledge of your rights.

You would prefer that the government take care of everything for you, and keep you safe in your bed at night.

------------------------------------------------------------

but....but....but...then i might be afraid! oh please! ill give up anything and everything to not be afraid!

Oh, BTW the NSA has been tapping overseas call for years...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON Way long before Bush came into office.

The phone records thing goes way beyond.

HappyDaddy: In that regard the SCt has said that the Constitution does not protect that information. The Electronic Communications Privacy Act requires a court order for placement of a pen register, but the only requirement for issuance of the order is government certification that the information likely to be obtained is relevant to an ongoing criminal investigation.

Ok, so please explain to me how every person in America is a person of interest in an ongoing investigation.

muninsfire, after that stemwinder, all I can say is:

When you've been killed by an act of terrorism, do you think that your civil rights will be violated then? I can think of roughly 3,000 New Yorkers, airline passengers and pentagon staff who might think so.

muninsfire: And I think you're a tool.

Thank you, muninsfire. I'm still waiting for one of these "spying is kewl" asshats to give up their personal information here. But, of course, they won't.

Why not? Because that'd be... um.... personal.

Just proving that they're hypocritical dickwits.

One more time: if you think NSA spying is no big deal, then spill it all here: real name, real phone number, real address.

If you don't: why not? 'Cause, if the government can have it for free, everyone else should. Right?

[Bueller?]

Right...?

[Bueller?]

FARKING HYPOCRITES...

"Oh, BTW the NSA has been tapping overseas call for years...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON Way long before Bush came into office.

The phone records thing goes way beyond."


Many of us older adults know that already. What's amusing is the suddeness of this newfound 'outrage'.

Its so, like, in vogue this season.

When you've been killed by an act of terrorism, do you think that your civil rights will be violated then? I can think of roughly 3,000 New Yorkers, airline passengers and pentagon staff who might think so.

------------------------------------------------------------
theyre called terrorists for a reason.

the only way the govern us is the way theyre governing you, through fear.

my how far you can stretch....

Many of us older adults know that already. What's amusing is the suddeness of this newfound 'outrage'.

Its so, like, in vogue this season.

------------------------------------------------------------

you know i was just thinking the same thing about rape!
people have been raped for years!
why all the outrage now?

Sugar_Pie_Honeybunch: When you've been killed by an act of terrorism, do you think that your civil rights will be violated then? I can think of roughly 3,000 New Yorkers, airline passengers and pentagon staff who might think so.

Terrorism is a criminal act.

Violating my civil rights by violating the fourth amendment is a criminal act.

One of these acts is easily preventable. The other, not so much.

Yes, I am equating domestic spying with terrorism. Got a problem with that?

JB-NoHo: Thank you, muninsfire. I'm still waiting for one of these "spying is kewl" asshats to give up their personal information here. But, of course, they won't.

Why not? Because that'd be... um.... personal.

It's just another aspect of their cowardice.

Sugar_Pie_Honeybunch: When you've been killed by an act of terrorism,

Tell you what, Sugar_Pie_Fascist_biatch -- call us when you've been killed by an act of terrorism, okay?

'Cause, since 9/12/01, the only acts of terrorism performed in this country have been domstic.

So, suck on that. And ram your fark FAQ up your ass right behind it, koont.

/cause I still don't see you posting your phone number here, if you're so goddamn innocent...