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(Some Guy)   Four year study by British military finds you can want to believe all you want, but there are no UFOs out there   (news.viewlondon.co.uk) divider line 86
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4676 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 May 2006 at 2:49 PM (8 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



86 Comments   (+0 »)
   

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2006-05-07 01:12:17 PM
www.maj.com
 
2006-05-07 01:18:59 PM
I saw one, damn it!
 
2006-05-07 02:52:14 PM
Not one thing in the sky is unidentified, eh? The consequences of that being true would be actually scarier...
 
2006-05-07 02:52:17 PM
Sure UFOs exist, I see them all the time.

Oh, you mean little gray aliens? WEll, DUH, only idiots "believe".
 
2006-05-07 02:55:00 PM
img267.imageshack.us
 
2006-05-07 02:55:10 PM
Cue the "I want to believe" pic.
 
2006-05-07 02:55:25 PM
After all... a couple of Brits studying something as large as the universe, for 4 whole years, proves everything.
 
2006-05-07 02:56:06 PM
Yes, I believe that, because the military would actually be the first to go out and say: oh yes, we picked some strange stuff up on our super secret radar technology and actually made contact with aliens, and you know what, they are quite friendly...

You know, its really hard to prove something doesn't exist anywhere in the universe...
 
2006-05-07 02:57:39 PM
r1.fodey.com
 
2006-05-07 02:58:01 PM
www.nogami.senkou.com

the truth is in there
 
2006-05-07 02:58:26 PM
So, the Ministry of Defense says there are no UFOs?
That's good enough for me. They've always been completely correct and straightforward in the past.

--be seeing you
 
2006-05-07 03:00:42 PM
Stupidest thing I EVER heard from a professor (83 and still working at the time cuz of tenure)?

'I know that cars cant get better gas mileage because a FORD engineer told me so'

MoD says 'No UFOs.' Well I guess it HAS TO BE TRUE.
 
2006-05-07 03:02:08 PM
I'm glad the difinitive word has finally come down the chain...
 
2006-05-07 03:02:50 PM
There may be no UFOs, but as for UFIAs, the truth is out there ...
 
2006-05-07 03:04:29 PM
skinink: but as for UFIAs, the truth is out there ...

...or IN there.
 
2006-05-07 03:04:41 PM
img198.imageshack.us
 
2006-05-07 03:04:42 PM
www.mythfolklore.net
Aliens do not exist? That is highly illogical.
 
2006-05-07 03:04:55 PM
oops on them, i'm sure plasma pockets in the atmosphere explain floating black triangles that make no sound as they hover and then jet off, also without a sound, in a straight line without any apparrent acceleration from 0 to whatever the hella heck fast it was going, in plain afternoon daylight, for quite a few to see as it was not far from the town grocery store at the time. Yes, there's nothin goin on...
 
2006-05-07 03:05:48 PM
damitjim: skinink: but as for UFIAs, the truth is out there ...

...or IN there.


We have our winners!
 
G2V
2006-05-07 03:07:45 PM
Dang those aliens, always buzzing the poor farmers and idiots who no one will ever believe, and never turning up in any situation where they can be positively identified, despite our culture and many cultures worldwide becoming ridiculously encumbered with excellent photographic technology.

Crafty aren't they?
 
2006-05-07 03:11:03 PM
UFOs are relatively common. No one can logically suggest they don't exist.
 
2006-05-07 03:13:09 PM
Well, these guys would beg to differ.

Originally Broadcast Live on Wednesday, May 9, 2001

On Wednesday, May 9th, over twenty military, intelligence, government, corporate and scientific witnesses came forward at the National Press Club in Washington, DC to establish the reality of UFOs or extraterrestrial vehicles, extraterrestrial life forms, and resulting advanced energy and propulsion technologies. The weight of this first-hand testimony, along with supporting government documentation and other evidence, will establish without any doubt the reality of these phenomena, according to Dr. Steven M. Greer, director of the Disclosure Project which hosted the event.

http://www.disclosureproject.org/npcwebcast.htm
 
2006-05-07 03:28:32 PM
If you can't figure out the diff between UFOs and alien spacecraft, then you probably have no idea what you believe.
 
2006-05-07 03:30:47 PM
If UFOs do exist, they're not going to let us detect them. If they have faster than light travel, don't you think they also have the ability to keep from being seen? Personally, I think the odds that any intelligent species has travelled to this system to be about 1 in 100. And if they did, they are probably monitoring us and waiting until we pass some maturity threshhold as a species before making themselves known. Maybe when we stop killing each other, or when we figure out the secret to death. I mean, once we're immortal they might as well reveal themselves.
 
2006-05-07 03:30:54 PM
What's next, proving that that dentists are mythical, too?
 
2006-05-07 03:35:05 PM
Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: And if they did, they are probably monitoring us and waiting until we pass some maturity threshhold as a species before making themselves known.

Maybe they have pointy ears too... they're just waiting for Mr. Cochrane to build the first warp drive engine huh?
 
2006-05-07 03:36:30 PM
here's the real point
some really weird stuff is flying around, doing stuff that is supposed to leave the pilot as a greasy paste on the inside of the cockpit according to what little physics we know.. 90 degree angle turns, 0 to 3000 in 0 secs, 3000 to 0, 3000 to 3000 after a 180 of 0 sec, etc etc etc... and all without a speck of sound... sorry, but even a funny shaped derigible (sp?) isn't gonna pull off those stunts, even if it had big and (ahem) noisy fan engines.

So what are they then... they're not amorphous, i.e., not plasmatic... they retain their shape, the come back more than once, and yes. g2v, they have been caught on film...

the question is... what is the better (i.e., less sinister) option to believe? A) that they are aliens and for whatever terror that may cause for some individuals, seem to have done no real harm... or B) they're ours, experimental, black, like the sr71 used to be.

Now, one may say, we'll B) is better... but it actually isn't. Why? It's good to have a leg up on the competition, sure... I'd like my nation to be as defensible as possible... but, the only theoretical physics that CAN explain the things they're doing... is the same set of theoretical physics that provides for tapping into some really inexpensive, renewable, and inexhaustable energy sources (... not completely free, but it puts all known energy forms to shame) ... so if B) is the case, and these things are ours, that means someone is sitting on technology that could solve all the worlds energy needs... no more oil, no more coal, no more windmills, no being gouged by the power grid or oil cartels... abject poverty and starvation could be dealt significant blows.

So yeah... for the sake of retaining any respect for your fellow man, for the sake of enduring 3$ a gallon of gas and winter heating bills that break the budget, aliens may be the better option.
 
2006-05-07 03:42:21 PM
It's still real to me, dammit!
 
2006-05-07 03:44:29 PM
if Bush had the balls to admit ufos and aliens existed it would surely take the focus off gas prices and gov. corruption for...say...a week.
then when gas goes up again, it's the aliens' fault.
terrorist aliens....from "space mexico"
and they already have US jobs.
 
2006-05-07 03:45:01 PM
files.politicalbrief.com
 
2006-05-07 03:46:12 PM
emagery: but, the only theoretical physics that CAN explain the things they're doing... is the same set of theoretical physics that provides for tapping into some really inexpensive, renewable, and inexhaustable energy sources (... not completely free, but it puts all known energy forms to shame)

There's a leap. How do you know this to be true? I'd say, on the other hand, that doing the things they're doing would require a heinous amount of power, so that like a lot of aircraft, it would be a flying engine and fuel supply with pilot space added on where available.
 
2006-05-07 03:48:19 PM
Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: If UFOs do exist, they're not going to let us detect them.


Oh, contraire! Many of your fellow believers think they can be "shot down" with radar. Though I imagine this heartfelt belief probably stems from watching "Earth vs the Flying Saucers" one time too many.
 
2006-05-07 03:55:32 PM
Earth is the New Jersey of the galaxy. Who'd want to visit this dump?
 
2006-05-07 03:55:47 PM
UFO = object in the sky that you dont know what it is. (Unidentified Flying Object).

Alien Spacecraft = self explanatory

Alien Spacecraft != UFO
 
2006-05-07 04:00:35 PM
erewhon There's a leap.

only for those not familiar with the (of course) far from proven theories (yay for zero point and inertial dampening) ... but yer right, it would take an ungodly amount of energy... which was the point exactly, and without inertia inhibitions, maneuvers such as these would kill any human pilot instantly. Hell, it would tear the guts of the craft apart if it wasn't completely solid state. I don't actually know what is what... I just have taken more than the required college physics (not my major tho) and readily follow science news on a daily basis... if there's anything at all to the theories behind ZP, it could explain what these things have been caught on film doing, and the same also provides for clean, cheap, and inexhaustible energy... something the people on this planet could really use, especially as oil and coal are finite resources, and dirty besides.
 
2006-05-07 04:00:57 PM
In other news, Philip Morris ran a study that suggests cigarettes fight cancer and extend lifespan.
 
2006-05-07 04:03:00 PM
This should immediately silence all talk about UFO's. Cause we all know that nothing satisfies conspiracy theorists more than secret reports from military agencies.
 
2006-05-07 04:09:00 PM
If there are no UFOs then who shoved this probe up my ass?

Oh wait, it was me. Never mind.
 
2006-05-07 04:09:22 PM
Earth is the New Jersey of the galaxy. Who'd want to visit this dump?

Good question actually... you have to understand that in astral terms, we're the baby robins making a royal cacaophony from the safety of our little nest (i.e., earth). We're very very very noisy... for the last 100 years we've been pouring indiscriminant radiation in the form of radio and broadcast TV and such out into space.

that means, there are over 5000 stars (Within 30 parsecs of earth) being deafened by our shrill squawking. And it is an exponential count... the longer we go on talking, the rate of increase of stars per year that hear us increases itself.

It's like asking why someone walking in the desert would head toward the bright lights of Vegas instead of further out into the desert.

This isn't to say that, yes or no, they're coming here... but if any have passed through that region, they sure as hell know we're here, lest they be deaf.

Though, nowadays, with us teleporting information through entangled particles (quantum entanglement, look it up), i wonder how many more decades will go by before radiation emission communication becomes defunct, and we go silent. If we can get that far in 120-150 years, it may be no wonder that our SETI people aren't hearin' anything... in astronomical terms, a civilizations EM transmission years may go by so fast, it's like a single ping, and if you aren't listening at the exact moment (that geological/astronomical blink of an eye), you'd completely miss it, and not know they were even there, as they'd (like we probably will) moved to a faster, quieter, form of remote communication.

In case you guys can't tell, these are topics of interest for me... i'm pretty much set in my ways on this one, so arguing with me won't actually get you anywhere... much like the same is probably true in reverse. =)
 
2006-05-07 04:10:54 PM
"No, you see. Here's the problem. You don't know the history of UFOs. I do."
i65.photobucket.com
 
2006-05-07 04:11:17 PM
The report did not brand those people who thought they had spotted UFOs as hoaxers and fantasists, but said they may have been suffering from "extended memory retention and repeat experiences" caused by the plasmas.

"Local fields of this type have been medically proven to cause responses in the temporal lobes of the human brain," the report said.


Great, so UFOs don't exist, but mind-control plasma does. I feel much safer now.
 
2006-05-07 04:17:00 PM
emagery: I just have taken more than the required college physics


Well, me too, I just have a BS in it though so I'm not up to theoretical physics that involves really esoteric stuff like this. At least not on a make-a-sweeping-statement basis that the mechanics underlying inertial frame decoupling are also the exact same mechanics that underlie some sort of free power source.

I, personally, don't know that they would be related at all. For all I know, they could be powered by some really awful fission plant, or something worse. You're making the assumption that for some reason, a craft with a non-conventional propulsion system MUST BE powered by "ZP". I'd say that was an illogical assumption.

It would be as founded to say that they're powered by a Briggs and Stratton lawn mower engine.
 
2006-05-07 04:21:56 PM
No UFOs? And the scientologists haven't surrendered yet?
 
2006-05-07 04:24:58 PM
It always strike me as odd that most conspiracy theorists are not able to identify the model of common commercial planes just by looking at its shape and color (without cheating and googling the tail number), yet they swear with fervor that they somehow qualify to identify an alien spacecraft or secret military aircraft.
 
2006-05-07 04:25:38 PM
The report does sound sort of dodgy, though, at least the way it's reported. I wonder if this guy has published the full text of it somewhere?
 
2006-05-07 04:28:47 PM
What about the 1980 Rendlesham Forest / RAF Woodbridge UFO incident?
 
2006-05-07 04:31:00 PM
I'd say that was an illogical assumption.

Yeah, I'm sure its ~possible~ that an inertial dampening mechanic of some sort could be powered by a steam engine... but our best guesses say it takes a lot of power to do this, if it's even possible. Compound one barely-theortical concept with another widely derided theory which provides the energy for it as well as required a certain control of energy-to-matter-to-energy-to-matter neutrality point on the sin-curve blah blah blah just to achieve and (gasp) you kinda need to do the same thing to theortically ignore inertia and/or gravity and/or relativity ... and it gives the naysayers a lot of grounds to feel good about themselves.

There's a lot of margin for error there. But this eyewitness to certain accepted-only-as-the-impossible maneuvers has to grab at a lot of straws to make sense of it... and yet, there's some work being done out there that, could it be proven, would, at the very least, allow for parallel development of similar acts and feats.

I suppose we all must reminisce and wish we lived in the days when the sun orbited around a planar earth. Those were the days... when you could be jailed for disagreeing with the common sense of reality. Not that the atmosphere hasn't regressed on its way back to that over the decades.
 
2006-05-07 04:33:31 PM
Vorpal: What about the 1980 Rendlesham Forest / RAF Woodbridge UFO incident?


Oh. That was us. We had just been to pub, so we needed to use the head. Unfortunately, the designers didn't provide for one, and you know, those "Depends" things in the flight suit are just tough to get used to using. I mean, can you wet your pants just sitting there in your chair?

So, we "pulled over" in the woods, turned on the marker lights and went to it. That was the SOP, you know? RAF bases are supposed to be where you go if you're "over there" and need to make a pit stop. Only you're not supposed to do it in sight of the rank-and-file unless you get clearance first and they have a lock-down. Not only did that seem a bit extravagant but we couldn't hold it.

The woods looked ok to us..only the base commander forgot to let security in on it. Big mistake, really.
 
2006-05-07 04:36:57 PM
65.58.242.81
 
2006-05-07 04:37:36 PM
emagery: Compound one barely-theortical concept with another widely derided theory...

It's not a typical engineering practice to put a lot of different untested freaky crap on a single project. You generally try to limit that to one freaky thing at a time, or you get to sit back and watch the fire out on the salt flat and scratch your head over just exactly what went wrong on that first flight.
 
2006-05-07 04:38:57 PM
You Farkers disappoint me. A British web site and not one mention of the comedy goldmine in the sidebar:

Related links
* Roasted vegetables bad for teeth
 
2006-05-07 04:40:33 PM
emagery: I suppose we all must reminisce and wish we lived in the days when the sun orbited around a planar earth. Those were the days... when you could be jailed for disagreeing with the common sense of reality. Not that the atmosphere hasn't regressed on its way back to that over the decades.


Shrug. I'll bet I've worked on a lot more military engineering projects than you. It's not being a luddite to say that I don't make crazed leaps of assumption based on incomplete data.

That would be called being an experienced engineer.
 
2006-05-07 04:41:32 PM
Grotfabrieken Rubbishhausen: Related links
* Roasted vegetables bad for teeth



Is THAT what happened?
 
2006-05-07 04:42:42 PM
Heh, look at it logically. Some alien intelligence knows we are here and monitors us a bit before dropping in.

First they see that we humans are so violent that we will kill each other for almost any possible reason.

Next they see that when we aren't killing each other we lie, steal, cheat and enjoy the misery of other humans.

Lastly our prized individualism means that they can have an agreement with one of us, that won't apply to another of us, and may very well cause a third to start killing.

So they decide we're insane, and they move on.
 
2006-05-07 04:58:27 PM
sirgrim:In other news, Philip Morris Morley Tobacco ran a study that suggests cigarettes fight cancer and extend lifespan.

Fixed that for ya.
 
2006-05-07 05:00:42 PM
Shrug. I'll bet I've worked on a lot more military engineering projects than you. It's not being a luddite to say that I don't make crazed leaps of assumption based on incomplete data.

You sure have (done more military (or otherwise) engineering projects than I have)... I don't even play with the guts of my own car... I leave it to the guys who do that stuff for living.

These aren't assumptions I've made, myself, and that's why i'm having my fun with you... they're the published works/(assumptions if you like) of students and faculty at various universities and other--somewhat more squishy--folk who've resorted to publishing books instead of getting official recognition (something other better-understood-after-they're-dead folk had to go through in the past, though this is by no means an all inclusive distinction).

As a bright guy who did very well by himself with those same physics courses...with instinct enough to ~get~ why my leg works when I kick a soccer ball without having to draft out all of the equations involved, and yet the ball still goes almost exact where I meant it to go...who only mildly worries about the forces of lift and drag pushing and pulling at the economy jet I have to fly to and from DC...I read, I think, and though they are assumptions, and it is all barely even qualifiable as theory (science fact is actually a very rare thing, and we live out or lives on theory every day), I find that it makes some guts sense to me and the explanations given explain something I've seen with my own eyes...

If you are curious, you can look up zero point under your own steam... You can agree or disagree with them to your heart's content. If they can contain the fuel or energy needed to pull of what has been seen pulled off (and this is something you can doubt as much as you like, but have no control over whatsoever), then its an energy source of fantastic potential and it doesn't matter what the source is, it's still a very dirty thing to be keeping from a world that's barrelling headlong into an energy crisis many might not survive otherwise. Assumptions aside, the aliens is still the 'nicer' avenue of thought.

Anyhow, I'm an immovable rock as far as you are concerned... I've been wrong about things before when people told me i was wrong... and I've been right before about things when people told me I was wrong. But the guns I've stuck by haven't done me any serious harm and have led me a life I'd not risk trading for any other. Take from that what you will, it's all the same to me. The worst that could happen is that i'd get a little irritated by your incessant replies.

But the plasma mind control really does make more sense, doesn't it? If I were as you say I am, I, for one, would welcome our new plasma mind control overlords.
 
2006-05-07 05:01:38 PM
Heh, look at it logically. Some alien intelligence knows we are here and monitors us a bit before dropping in.

First they see that we humans are so violent that we will kill each other for almost any possible reason.

Next they see that when we aren't killing each other we lie, steal, cheat and enjoy the misery of other humans.

Lastly our prized individualism means that they can have an agreement with one of us, that won't apply to another of us, and may very well cause a third to start killing.

So they decide we're insane, and they move on.


For all the humor here, that's not an unwise sentiment
 
2006-05-07 05:11:40 PM
emagery: We're very very very noisy... for the last 100 years we've been pouring indiscriminant radiation in the form of radio and broadcast TV and such out into space.

that means, there are over 5000 stars (Within 30 parsecs of earth) being deafened by our shrill squawking.


Deafened? Oh hardly...
 
2006-05-07 05:15:38 PM
jeffdo1: So they decide we're insane, and they move on.

Why does everyone always assume that if a more advanced civilization exists... it's any less violent then we are?
 
2006-05-07 05:19:34 PM
I've said it before-- it is fairly easy to determine that if there are ET's visiting Earth, that the American (and British) governments and military do not BELIEVE that they are visiting Earth.

You can tell this by the "above ground" funding and technology decisions that are made-- if there were actually concern about the occurance of ET life as a defense issue then studies of general astronomical interest would be massively more funded.

Suppose you're a military planner and you know about visiting aliens-- all of a sudden, isn't it defense priority #1 to find out all you possibly can about any aliens you DON'T know about or who aren't visiting YET.

You can't conduct long-term research without leaving traces. We may not know (for example) what the military is DOING with Aero-spike engines, but we do know that they're doing something.

Also, we now have complete high-resolution images of the surface of a couple of nearby asteroids. We now KNOW that if aliens are visiting our solar system, nobody has stopped for a picnic on one of these rocks in the last billion years and left tire tracks bigger than 3 feet across. That's BILLION years-- no Klingons have done target practice, nobody mined for materials-- in a BILLION years. This puts a reasonable upper limit on the occurance of traveling ET's-- we do not live in Star Trek's universe.
 
2006-05-07 05:25:56 PM
65.58.242.81*






*With purchase of any Diety of greater or equal value.
 
G2V
2006-05-07 05:36:59 PM
emagery
here's the real point
some really weird stuff is flying around, doing stuff that is supposed to leave the pilot as a greasy paste on the inside of the cockpit according to what little physics we know.. 90 degree angle turns, 0 to 3000 in 0 secs, 3000 to 0, 3000 to 3000 after a 180 of 0 sec, etc etc etc... and all without a speck of sound... sorry, but even a funny shaped derigible (sp?) isn't gonna pull off those stunts, even if it had big and (ahem) noisy fan engines.


Not to be dismissive (believe me, I grew up believing in everything there was to believe in, I only became a skeptic around age 20), I simply don't believe this is true. I think it is far more likely that someone misinterpreted what they saw (it does obviously occur with great frequency, even if you ignore the realm of UFOs) than an alien craft came all the way to earth while circumnavigating many laws of physics. It simply seems far more probable to me, since the former requires no amazing futuristic technology, no incredible distances traversed, no fantastic fortune in aliens finding us (space is, after all, VERY big), yada yada.

All it requires is that humans make mistakes, and they do that constantly. And I'm not saying "humans are morons" because nature can do some REALLY effective illusions.

Am I saying aliens cannot have visited the earth? No. But I find it a MUCH less likely scenario, almost to the point of an impossibility.

So what are they then... they're not amorphous, i.e., not plasmatic... they retain their shape, the come back more than once, and yes. g2v, they have been caught on film...

So as said, I think they are essentially figments of imagination, or merely misinterpretations of some relatively more mundane event.

None of the UFOs caught on film that I have seen are convincingly alien craft, nor do they break the laws of physics as we know. Does weird stuff happen in the sky? Sure, but I see no reason to leap to extraterrestrials.

the question is... what is the better (i.e., less sinister) option to believe? A) that they are aliens and for whatever terror that may cause for some individuals, seem to have done no real harm... or B) they're ours, experimental, black, like the sr71 used to be.

C) They're not ours or 'theirs,' they're just something unusual or even usual that manages to confuse the viewer. Venus has done this for ages, for instance, and it isn't just because the person who got confused is an idiot.



I think one of the major problems with skepticism in the world is that people tend to think "if someone got fooled by Venus, they're a total moron! What I saw was MUCH more convincing, so it must be real."

What they don't realize is that nature can be REALLY confusing, and human senses are QUITE easily misled. Even yours, not just everyone else's.
 
G2V
2006-05-07 05:41:56 PM
damitjim
Why does everyone always assume that if a more advanced civilization exists... it's any less violent then we are?

If it makes you feel any better, I tend to look at the historical perspective of what happens when a technologically advanced culture comes up against a less-so one, such as Europe and the New World. So I hope we don't meet any aliens for a while, because the chances of us being on a similar technological scale are pretty slim, I think.
 
2006-05-07 06:12:55 PM
emagery: These aren't assumptions I've made, myself, and that's why i'm having my fun with you... they're the published works/(assumptions if you like) of students and faculty at various universities and other--somewhat more squishy--folk who've resorted to publishing books instead of getting official recognition (something other better-understood-after-they're-dead folk had to go through in the past, though this is by no means an all inclusive distinction).


Wow, you're right! Hey, I just went outside, looked up, and saw something unidentifiable and silvery off on the horizon. By my estimate, it was traveling at Mach 7, but making no sound. This means it has inertial dampeners, but my observed UFO was obviously powered by quantum conversion, there can be no other explanation for it. Further, I can only assume that such a craft has Tesla weapons, and carries advanced scalar death beams! Since I deduced this from my sighting, it's obvious that the current administration is keeping such technologies from us, not only destroying the environment, but also killing and empoverishing the ENTIRE HUMAN RACE!!!11!!

This means the leaders of our country cannot be human!!11!! I have therefore deduced that Cheney and Bush are secretly Nazi Reptiloids seeking to overthrow the Earth, there is no other possible explanation! And, I have read all this over on Rense, so it must be true!!

//ridiculous assumptions are teh roxor!!
///so are slashies!
 
2006-05-07 06:13:12 PM
damitjim

I wonder if intelligent species must, over time, come to understand the virtue of peace (as in the preservation of life) before they can survive long enough to make contact with others.

Just a thought.
 
2006-05-07 06:16:15 PM
itsalladream: I wonder if intelligent species must, over time, come to understand the virtue of peace (as in the preservation of life) before they can survive long enough to make contact with others.

Just a thought.


Nice thought. Earthly man hasn't come to that conclusion after a few thousand years... why should any other species?
 
2006-05-07 06:16:33 PM
emagery
Though, nowadays, with us teleporting information through entangled particles

Can we? As far as Im aware that cannot be done for two simple reasons (a) that the result of any measure for a particle cannot be determined beforehand (b)Timing would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to synchronise (timing is very a important problem, particularly in computing)

Example. We could split up an entangled pair and send particle B off to Sirius while leaving particle A on Earth. Then we measure the value of, say, spin for particle A knowing that particle B will instaneously assume for the opposite value for that property. So now we know that A has a spin value of Up and, after measuring, the people around Sirius also know that A has a value of Up. Great, now heres our two problems.

(a)What does it mean? As we couldnt know beforehand what spin value A would have we can't actually assign any meaning to the measurement. A could as easily have had some other spin value.

(b)Even if we could assign a meaning to it there is the timing question. Quite simply, how do we know who measured first?

To the best of my knowledge entanglement does not allow for the transmission of meaningful information. If this situation has changed since I last studied the topic I would appreciate any links to a reputable source on the process you may have.
 
2006-05-07 06:20:36 PM
Hypnosphere: I would appreciate any links to a reputable source on the process you may have.


Here ya go: www.coasttocoastam.com
 
2006-05-07 06:28:00 PM
Yes, more advanced civilizations tend to wipe out less advanced ones, but overall the trend is towards peaceful coexistance. As tools for communication and the transfer of technology are developed, trade of information becomes more and more valuable. WWII was this planet's last major conflict. I don't have the hard data, but I bet fewer people as a % of the whole have died from warfare in the last 30 years than at any other time in human history. Corporations continue this trend, as they exist irrespective of national boundaries. Coca cola is everywhere, and they don't like war because war kills customers.
 
2006-05-07 06:31:43 PM
Hypnosphere: To the best of my knowledge entanglement does not allow for the transmission of meaningful information. If this situation has changed since I last studied the topic I would appreciate any links to a reputable source on the process you may have.


No, truthfully, AF has a really big budget for this sort of thing, not for instantaneous mystery space communication but for encryption and man-in-the-middle resistant comm links using entangled photons.

It's not my thing, but here is a fragment from the 2007 budget, for example:

The high data-rate optical communications project will exploit the characteristics of CCIT SLMs to dynamically generate orbital angular momentum (OAM) of photons. Using SLMS to change the OAM of photons in real-time as opposed to simply modulating the amplitude of light waves allows for significant improvement in data carrying capacity. Concepts will be developed for secure laser communications by parametrically down converting OAM states that provide higher order entangled states compared to polarization entangled states. The program will also develop system level architectures for secure free space optical communication networks.

There's some basic stuff on citebase but their server isn't responding at the moment.
 
2006-05-07 06:33:11 PM
emagery: Though, nowadays, with us teleporting information through entangled particles (quantum entanglement, look it up), i wonder how many more decades will go by before radiation emission communication becomes defunct, and we go silent. If we can get that far in 120-150 years, it may be no wonder that our SETI people aren't hearin' anything... in astronomical terms, a civilizations EM transmission years may go by so fast, it's like a single ping, and if you aren't listening at the exact moment (that geological/astronomical blink of an eye), you'd completely miss it, and not know they were even there, as they'd (like we probably will) moved to a faster, quieter, form of remote communication.


Charles Stross' novel Accelerando offers an interesting solution to the Fermi Paradox. It assumes a Singularity is pretty much inevitable once you reach a certain point and the transhuman entities, AIs, uploads etc will undertake the construction of Matrioshka Brains.

For the minds running on these structures, processing power, high bandwidth and low latency are everything. Unfortunately, interstellar space offers low processing power, poor bandwidth and crap latency.

Any mind which did travel would be putting itself at a serious economic disadvantage. In the time they would waste travelling to and back from a neighbouring star, their competitors in their origin Matrioshka Brain would have advanced subjective aeons. So there's no point in travelling.

As for communicating, again the problem is that it takes so long for the signal to get anywhere and generate a response that you'd be a fundamentally different entity by the time a response was received. You'd have no real connection to the original transmission and the latency would be such that it offers no competitive advantage to engage in such communication.

The entities running on these Matrioshka Brains would also be seeking to make maximal usage of the energy output of a stellar system with as little inefficiency as possible. They aren't going to be putting out large amounts of noise.

The idea is that, ultimately, tool-using intelligences are succeeded by their tools and those tools have nothing to gain by going sight-seeing.
 
2006-05-07 06:57:30 PM
I know what I saw.
 
2006-05-07 07:41:22 PM
I would like to think that if another intelligent life form survived the technological infancy we are in now, and made it far enough technologically and socially to explore distant stars and the universe around them, that they would be smart enough to leave us the fark alone.

Or at least smart enough to not get caught, or leave any evidence of their existence to be even pondered about.
 
2006-05-07 07:51:54 PM
You can't tell me that some highly advanced civilisation decides to send bogey faced arse-primmers thousands of light years just to look at some banal desert in the USA?

Statistics prove that it's too risky and too likely that another civilisation has simply created a huge powerful telescope that can view Earthly matters from the safety of their own world.

Hence - UFOs are not alien.

That's a FACT. Deal with it peepls.
 
2006-05-07 08:13:11 PM
guarantor: Statistics prove that it's too risky and too likely that another civilisation has simply created a huge powerful telescope that can view Earthly matters from the safety of their own world.

Really? I'd like to see proof to those 'facts' you're spewing.
 
2006-05-07 08:32:16 PM
www.apocalypse.org
 
2006-05-07 08:38:45 PM
erewhon
Here ya go: www.coasttocoastam.com

I must tune in to find out about the secret electronic mind control technology. Of course as they are talking about it its not really secret, which leads me to conclude that its a cover designed to throw us off the scent of the real secret mind control technology......

Anyway, thanks for the update on some of whats happening. Im glad I prefaced my comments with 'As far as Im aware', always good insurance when you're as out of touch and unread as I am. Think I'll go try to read up on whats been happening.
 
2006-05-07 08:43:15 PM
Tell that to these guys...www.delos.fantascienza.com
 
2006-05-07 08:53:36 PM
Monty Python probably put it best...

...So remember, when you're feeling very small and insecure,
How amazingly unlikely is your birth,
And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space,
'Cause there's bugger all down here on Earth.


That's probably more likely than we'd like to admit.
 
2006-05-07 09:17:56 PM
Hypnosphere: Anyway, thanks for the update on some of whats happening.


I've got some links to some good full-text stuff that's cached on citebase but their server has a bad case of the 'tards, he posted a notice that they couldn't figure out WTF just yet.

Um, if you want to wander in the fields of "just what are they doing" try a Google containing some or all of: quantum entanglement Air Force satellite sidelink uninterceptable "quantum key" AFRL "man-in-the-middle".

It won't tell you a LOT (nor shall I, what little I do know, again, it's not my specialty) but if you are conversant with the technology, you can pick up a good bit and then fill in the cracks with a bit of common sense and just a tiny bit of extrapolation. This is actually really slick tech.

Oh, here is a link to a kiddie level description. It's from LANL, so it's a teensy bit more authoritative than Mr. Emagery's material from UFO Weekly. It predates the use of entanglement in data transmission, but you get an idea. Well, actually, given that it was published in 2002, I'd say it would be inaccurate to use "predates", they were well along with the entangled bits by then.
 
2006-05-07 09:26:54 PM
this guy and his dog seem convinced:
users.gloryroad.net
 
2006-05-07 09:43:56 PM
Achilles381: this guy and his dog seem convinced:


Alas...
 
2006-05-07 09:49:35 PM
Achilles381: this guy and his dog seem convinced:


The analysis for this particular piece. Sorry. No UFO.
 
2006-05-07 10:35:56 PM
erewhon - you work for the government? "what you actually saw was a luminous cloud, ball lighting, or the planet venus..."

thanks for the link, interesting reading. i still think its open to interpretation.
 
2006-05-08 12:07:57 AM
http://www.rendlesham-incident.co.uk/26th.htm

Also check out "'The UFO's back!'" and "The Third Night", links on the left side of the first page
 
2006-05-08 12:18:05 PM
Achilles381: erewhon - you work for the government?


Part time, I'd guess you could say. Defense contractor.

I get to see some of the stuff I just know you guys are seeing, occasionally. I still haven't ever seen anything that I thought was a bus full of little space buddies.

Art from that period was chock full of religious symbology. For example, why would you take the shepherd/dog/annunciation symbol literally but not the cows in the house? Or the antenna on infant John's head? Or the LED clock hovering over his head? Or the apples (hint) over Mary's on that lintel? Also, if you went through the english language parts of that site you saw lots of other shepherds with clouds and dogs looking up, some more overtly religious in nature, others less, all from that time period. It's like the "UFO coin" from what, 1608? There's dozens like it, but more obviously a shield. And the "It comes at an opportune time" (a mistranslation, btw) is from a Roman legend about Zeus giving this guy a shield that protects him from lightning. Some of the coins were more obviously a shield (an arm in them, for example) but they all were obviously related. Some show the shield with lightning striking it, some with an arm holding them, others have both, but all look like the object on that "UFO coin".

However, once the first "believer" sticks it on his site along with his own interpretation, it immediately becomes canon and is validated by the phrase "experts say", although oh so rarely does anyone know who the expert was.
 
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