I saw one, damn it!

Not one thing in the sky is unidentified, eh? The consequences of that being true would be actually scarier...

Sure UFOs exist, I see them all the time.

Oh, you mean little gray aliens? WEll, DUH, only idiots "believe".

Cue the "I want to believe" pic.

After all... a couple of Brits studying something as large as the universe, for 4 whole years, proves everything.

Yes, I believe that, because the military would actually be the first to go out and say: oh yes, we picked some strange stuff up on our super secret radar technology and actually made contact with aliens, and you know what, they are quite friendly...

You know, its really hard to prove something doesn't exist anywhere in the universe...

the truth is in there

So, the Ministry of Defense says there are no UFOs?
That's good enough for me. They've always been completely correct and straightforward in the past.

--be seeing you

Stupidest thing I EVER heard from a professor (83 and still working at the time cuz of tenure)?

'I know that cars cant get better gas mileage because a FORD engineer told me so'

MoD says 'No UFOs.' Well I guess it HAS TO BE TRUE.

I'm glad the difinitive word has finally come down the chain...

There may be no UFOs, but as for UFIAs, the truth is out there ...

skinink: but as for UFIAs, the truth is out there ...

...or IN there.

oops on them, i'm sure plasma pockets in the atmosphere explain floating black triangles that make no sound as they hover and then jet off, also without a sound, in a straight line without any apparrent acceleration from 0 to whatever the hella heck fast it was going, in plain afternoon daylight, for quite a few to see as it was not far from the town grocery store at the time. Yes, there's nothin goin on...

damitjim: skinink: but as for UFIAs, the truth is out there ...

...or IN there.

We have our winners!

Dang those aliens, always buzzing the poor farmers and idiots who no one will ever believe, and never turning up in any situation where they can be positively identified, despite our culture and many cultures worldwide becoming ridiculously encumbered with excellent photographic technology.

Crafty aren't they?

UFOs are relatively common. No one can logically suggest they don't exist.

Well, these guys would beg to differ.

Originally Broadcast Live on Wednesday, May 9, 2001

On Wednesday, May 9th, over twenty military, intelligence, government, corporate and scientific witnesses came forward at the National Press Club in Washington, DC to establish the reality of UFOs or extraterrestrial vehicles, extraterrestrial life forms, and resulting advanced energy and propulsion technologies. The weight of this first-hand testimony, along with supporting government documentation and other evidence, will establish without any doubt the reality of these phenomena, according to Dr. Steven M. Greer, director of the Disclosure Project which hosted the event.

http://www.disclosureproject.org/npcwebcast.htm

If you can't figure out the diff between UFOs and alien spacecraft, then you probably have no idea what you believe.

If UFOs do exist, they're not going to let us detect them. If they have faster than light travel, don't you think they also have the ability to keep from being seen? Personally, I think the odds that any intelligent species has travelled to this system to be about 1 in 100. And if they did, they are probably monitoring us and waiting until we pass some maturity threshhold as a species before making themselves known. Maybe when we stop killing each other, or when we figure out the secret to death. I mean, once we're immortal they might as well reveal themselves.

What's next, proving that that dentists are mythical, too?

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: And if they did, they are probably monitoring us and waiting until we pass some maturity threshhold as a species before making themselves known.

Maybe they have pointy ears too... they're just waiting for Mr. Cochrane to build the first warp drive engine huh?

here's the real point
some really weird stuff is flying around, doing stuff that is supposed to leave the pilot as a greasy paste on the inside of the cockpit according to what little physics we know.. 90 degree angle turns, 0 to 3000 in 0 secs, 3000 to 0, 3000 to 3000 after a 180 of 0 sec, etc etc etc... and all without a speck of sound... sorry, but even a funny shaped derigible (sp?) isn't gonna pull off those stunts, even if it had big and (ahem) noisy fan engines.

So what are they then... they're not amorphous, i.e., not plasmatic... they retain their shape, the come back more than once, and yes. g2v, they have been caught on film...

the question is... what is the better (i.e., less sinister) option to believe? A) that they are aliens and for whatever terror that may cause for some individuals, seem to have done no real harm... or B) they're ours, experimental, black, like the sr71 used to be.

Now, one may say, we'll B) is better... but it actually isn't. Why? It's good to have a leg up on the competition, sure... I'd like my nation to be as defensible as possible... but, the only theoretical physics that CAN explain the things they're doing... is the same set of theoretical physics that provides for tapping into some really inexpensive, renewable, and inexhaustable energy sources (... not completely free, but it puts all known energy forms to shame) ... so if B) is the case, and these things are ours, that means someone is sitting on technology that could solve all the worlds energy needs... no more oil, no more coal, no more windmills, no being gouged by the power grid or oil cartels... abject poverty and starvation could be dealt significant blows.

So yeah... for the sake of retaining any respect for your fellow man, for the sake of enduring 3$ a gallon of gas and winter heating bills that break the budget, aliens may be the better option.

It's still real to me, dammit!

if Bush had the balls to admit ufos and aliens existed it would surely take the focus off gas prices and gov. corruption for...say...a week.
then when gas goes up again, it's the aliens' fault.
terrorist aliens....from "space mexico"
and they already have US jobs.

emagery: but, the only theoretical physics that CAN explain the things they're doing... is the same set of theoretical physics that provides for tapping into some really inexpensive, renewable, and inexhaustable energy sources (... not completely free, but it puts all known energy forms to shame)

There's a leap. How do you know this to be true? I'd say, on the other hand, that doing the things they're doing would require a heinous amount of power, so that like a lot of aircraft, it would be a flying engine and fuel supply with pilot space added on where available.

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: If UFOs do exist, they're not going to let us detect them.


Oh, contraire! Many of your fellow believers think they can be "shot down" with radar. Though I imagine this heartfelt belief probably stems from watching "Earth vs the Flying Saucers" one time too many.

Earth is the New Jersey of the galaxy. Who'd want to visit this dump?

UFO = object in the sky that you dont know what it is. (Unidentified Flying Object).

Alien Spacecraft = self explanatory

Alien Spacecraft != UFO

erewhon There's a leap.

only for those not familiar with the (of course) far from proven theories (yay for zero point and inertial dampening) ... but yer right, it would take an ungodly amount of energy... which was the point exactly, and without inertia inhibitions, maneuvers such as these would kill any human pilot instantly. Hell, it would tear the guts of the craft apart if it wasn't completely solid state. I don't actually know what is what... I just have taken more than the required college physics (not my major tho) and readily follow science news on a daily basis... if there's anything at all to the theories behind ZP, it could explain what these things have been caught on film doing, and the same also provides for clean, cheap, and inexhaustible energy... something the people on this planet could really use, especially as oil and coal are finite resources, and dirty besides.

In other news, Philip Morris ran a study that suggests cigarettes fight cancer and extend lifespan.

If there are no UFOs then who shoved this probe up my ass?

Oh wait, it was me. Never mind.

Earth is the New Jersey of the galaxy. Who'd want to visit this dump?

Good question actually... you have to understand that in astral terms, we're the baby robins making a royal cacaophony from the safety of our little nest (i.e., earth). We're very very very noisy... for the last 100 years we've been pouring indiscriminant radiation in the form of radio and broadcast TV and such out into space.

that means, there are over 5000 stars (Within 30 parsecs of earth) being deafened by our shrill squawking. And it is an exponential count... the longer we go on talking, the rate of increase of stars per year that hear us increases itself.

It's like asking why someone walking in the desert would head toward the bright lights of Vegas instead of further out into the desert.

This isn't to say that, yes or no, they're coming here... but if any have passed through that region, they sure as hell know we're here, lest they be deaf.

Though, nowadays, with us teleporting information through entangled particles (quantum entanglement, look it up), i wonder how many more decades will go by before radiation emission communication becomes defunct, and we go silent. If we can get that far in 120-150 years, it may be no wonder that our SETI people aren't hearin' anything... in astronomical terms, a civilizations EM transmission years may go by so fast, it's like a single ping, and if you aren't listening at the exact moment (that geological/astronomical blink of an eye), you'd completely miss it, and not know they were even there, as they'd (like we probably will) moved to a faster, quieter, form of remote communication.

In case you guys can't tell, these are topics of interest for me... i'm pretty much set in my ways on this one, so arguing with me won't actually get you anywhere... much like the same is probably true in reverse. =)

"No, you see. Here's the problem. You don't know the history of UFOs. I do."

The report did not brand those people who thought they had spotted UFOs as hoaxers and fantasists, but said they may have been suffering from "extended memory retention and repeat experiences" caused by the plasmas.

"Local fields of this type have been medically proven to cause responses in the temporal lobes of the human brain," the report said.

Great, so UFOs don't exist, but mind-control plasma does. I feel much safer now.

emagery: I just have taken more than the required college physics


Well, me too, I just have a BS in it though so I'm not up to theoretical physics that involves really esoteric stuff like this. At least not on a make-a-sweeping-statement basis that the mechanics underlying inertial frame decoupling are also the exact same mechanics that underlie some sort of free power source.

I, personally, don't know that they would be related at all. For all I know, they could be powered by some really awful fission plant, or something worse. You're making the assumption that for some reason, a craft with a non-conventional propulsion system MUST BE powered by "ZP". I'd say that was an illogical assumption.

It would be as founded to say that they're powered by a Briggs and Stratton lawn mower engine.

No UFOs? And the scientologists haven't surrendered yet?

It always strike me as odd that most conspiracy theorists are not able to identify the model of common commercial planes just by looking at its shape and color (without cheating and googling the tail number), yet they swear with fervor that they somehow qualify to identify an alien spacecraft or secret military aircraft.

The report does sound sort of dodgy, though, at least the way it's reported. I wonder if this guy has published the full text of it somewhere?

What about the 1980 Rendlesham Forest / RAF Woodbridge UFO incident?

I'd say that was an illogical assumption.

Yeah, I'm sure its ~possible~ that an inertial dampening mechanic of some sort could be powered by a steam engine... but our best guesses say it takes a lot of power to do this, if it's even possible. Compound one barely-theortical concept with another widely derided theory which provides the energy for it as well as required a certain control of energy-to-matter-to-energy-to-matter neutrality point on the sin-curve blah blah blah just to achieve and (gasp) you kinda need to do the same thing to theortically ignore inertia and/or gravity and/or relativity ... and it gives the naysayers a lot of grounds to feel good about themselves.

There's a lot of margin for error there. But this eyewitness to certain accepted-only-as-the-impossible maneuvers has to grab at a lot of straws to make sense of it... and yet, there's some work being done out there that, could it be proven, would, at the very least, allow for parallel development of similar acts and feats.

I suppose we all must reminisce and wish we lived in the days when the sun orbited around a planar earth. Those were the days... when you could be jailed for disagreeing with the common sense of reality. Not that the atmosphere hasn't regressed on its way back to that over the decades.

Vorpal: What about the 1980 Rendlesham Forest / RAF Woodbridge UFO incident?


Oh. That was us. We had just been to pub, so we needed to use the head. Unfortunately, the designers didn't provide for one, and you know, those "Depends" things in the flight suit are just tough to get used to using. I mean, can you wet your pants just sitting there in your chair?

So, we "pulled over" in the woods, turned on the marker lights and went to it. That was the SOP, you know? RAF bases are supposed to be where you go if you're "over there" and need to make a pit stop. Only you're not supposed to do it in sight of the rank-and-file unless you get clearance first and they have a lock-down. Not only did that seem a bit extravagant but we couldn't hold it.

The woods looked ok to us..only the base commander forgot to let security in on it. Big mistake, really.

emagery: Compound one barely-theortical concept with another widely derided theory...

It's not a typical engineering practice to put a lot of different untested freaky crap on a single project. You generally try to limit that to one freaky thing at a time, or you get to sit back and watch the fire out on the salt flat and scratch your head over just exactly what went wrong on that first flight.