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(Financial Times)   Former four-star general and chaiman of the joint chiefs, Colin Powell, warned the Bush Administration about troop levels before the Iraq invasion began. Careful Colin, they are looking for a scapegoat   (news.ft.com) divider line 30
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322 clicks; posted to Politics » on 01 May 2006 at 12:05 AM (9 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2006-04-30 06:20:53 PM  
It seems to me that everybody in the executive branch concentrated on the public support part of the Powell Doctrine and mostly ignored the rest of it. *sigh*
 
2006-04-30 06:23:12 PM  
Isotope: Powell Doctrine

Gen. Powell was a Vietnam-era warrior. He KNEW that the only way to fight a war is to have overwhelming public support and superior firepower. I imagine that he had many sleepless nights as he tried desperately to prevent the fallacy that is Operation Iraqi Freedom.
 
2006-04-30 06:34:48 PM  
NewportBarGuy: Yeah, later on it seemed he realized it was going to happen and there wasn't a thing he could do to stop it so he did what he could to see that it was done right. His demeanor when he made his presentation to the UN on Iraqi WMD made me think he didn't really beleive what he was saying. Maybe the war was justified (a little irrelevant now) but I think we'd be in better shape if more people had listened to him.
 
2006-04-30 06:40:19 PM  
Isotope: His demeanor when he made his presentation to the UN on Iraqi WMD made me think he didn't really beleive what he was saying.

He is a true American Hero. We can't be privy to the machinations that lead up to the war, but I can rest easy knowing that he is of the mindset to have fought tooth and nail against invasion. He was one man against an impenetrable wall.

Adm. Vern Clark had some very nice words to say about him last I saw him. Said "he truly understands what it is to be an American in Service to his Nation." I've never had reason to discount his words. That is about as high a praise as you can get. Colin got farked over, he did his best. I would serve with or under him any day of the week.
 
2006-04-30 06:45:18 PM  
It would be a real shame if such a honourable man went down in history as a patsy. I hope he continues to try to shed that image.
 
2006-04-30 06:51:15 PM  
Colin Powell loses all credibility to criticize due to his sham at the UN.

No, You cannot have your credibility back. Not yours.

If he knew the information he is a liar, if he didn't he was an out of the loop dumbass.

Everyone talks about the Powell Doctrine: "Make sure we have an overwhelming man and firepower advantage" isn't exactly rocket science.
 
rka
2006-04-30 07:00:54 PM  
Powell was criticised heavily during the Clinton Administration for footdragging on the whole Bosnia Crisis and the level of troops needed there.

That's his M.O. Troops? Well, sure we can do it, but its going to take eleventybillion boots on the ground. There is caution and prudence and then there is Colin Powell.

And how heartwarming is that he found his missing backbone since leaving office?
 
2006-04-30 07:01:30 PM  
due to his sham at the UN
I think it was a tough choice for him. If it was between resigning in protest or staying on and risk his reputation in order to improve the situation. He chose the hard road...at least that's what it looks like from here.

They tried to substitute "Shock and Awe" for overwhelming force and it didn't go so far as they hoped, plus there's a lot more to the Powell Doctrine than overwhelming force, like a clear exit strategy. They decided to play it by ear and it's turning out to be harder than they expected.
 
2006-04-30 07:20:06 PM  
If he knew the information he is a liar, if he didn't he was an out of the loop dumbass.

Everyone talks about the Powell Doctrine: "Make sure we have an overwhelming man and firepower advantage" isn't exactly rocket science.


really though, false dilemmas and oversimplifications don't make make anybody sound too bright any more than name calling.
 
2006-04-30 07:33:48 PM  
Not to oversimplify, it is a difficult issue.

Powell did get up in front of the UN and claim Iraq had WMDs. If Bush is being correctly called out for misleading, then Powell should be called out too.

That doesn't change the fact that he was a very good General. Just like how US Grant was a disgraceful and crooked president, but a very good General and a loving husband.
 
2006-04-30 08:58:10 PM  
Oh, ferchrissakes, spare me this concern about his "lost credibility." This is the guy who tried to whitewash My Lai.
 
2006-04-30 09:22:57 PM  
Just to clarify, Colin Powell is a retired general, no?

rka: That's his M.O. Troops? Well, sure we can do it, but its going to take eleventybillion boots on the ground. There is caution and prudence and then there is Colin Powell.

His M.O.? Well, it IS called the Powell Doctrine for a reason. But regardless, I think the current Iraq adventure has proven that his doctrine would have been rather effective this time around. A heavy presence of troops does much more to dissuade a post-invasion insurgency in most cases than tactical weaponry--that's just common sense. As a general, it was strategically wise of him to consider this possibility. The problem, of course, was the "candy and flowers" delusion among the war's political architects precluding such forethought.

But to echo FriarTuck, his skill as a general doesn't change his spinelessness as a political figure, and vice-versa.
 
2006-04-30 09:51:33 PM  
Colin Powell (n.): A good man ruined by bad acquaintences.
 
2006-04-30 10:31:44 PM  
Tabatha Static wins the thread.
 
2006-04-30 10:54:36 PM  
Tabatha Static: This is the guy who tried to whitewash My Lai.


He was trying to save the US Military as an institution, yes at the expense of hundreds of dead civilians. We very nearly lost this country in the mid 70's. My father came back from service and they had him train to use CS and weapons in an urban environment in case we were spun into a civil war. Yes, we came that close.

So, sit idly back and cast judgement. Others you deem inferior will guide the nation through troubled waters.
 
2006-05-01 12:26:54 AM  
Mission Accomplished!
 
2006-05-01 12:38:02 AM  
So, sit idly back and cast judgement. Others you deem inferior will guide the nation through troubled waters

Unfortunately, at the moment he's not doing much guiding. Rather, he's criticizing those who are. A nice sign, but it may be premature to start patting him on the back.
 
2006-05-01 12:39:11 AM  
If Powell was such a hero, he would have resigned BEFORE the war, and made his thoughts on the administration's missteps known then. The "hard road" isn't staying put in one of the more powerful positions in the government - it's moving out when those more powerful than you won't listen and are about to make a mistake that will have repurcussions for years and years.
 
2006-05-01 12:49:44 AM  
Money: If Powell was such a hero, he would have resigned BEFORE the war, and made his thoughts on the administration's missteps known then.

That is not how our system works. To attempt to affect change from within is what he sought. He realised that is impossible with morons at the helm.
 
2006-05-01 01:18:52 AM  
To attempt to affect change from within is what he sought. He realised that is impossible with morons at the helm.

Seconded. If your ship is headed for the rocks, it's a better idea to stay aboard and try to steer it off, than to jump overboard and shout advice to those left behind. Even if that means you end up sharing the blame for the running aground.
 
2006-05-01 02:48:03 AM  
NewportBarGuy: That is not how our system works. To attempt to affect change from within is what he sought. He realised that is impossible with morons at the helm.

He made a Faustian bargain.
 
2006-05-01 03:44:34 AM  
I've met Secretary Powell, shook his hand, and still respect him. However, it seems all the more likely he missed an opportunity to do the nation a real service back in 2003.
 
2006-05-01 04:43:00 AM  
Powell could do more than this. He has lost credibility with me since he helped lie us into the war. I used to think he would make a good president, not so much anymore.
 
2006-05-01 04:46:55 AM  
Powell?

He investigated massacres in Vietnam and found no problems.

He lied to the UN. He knew the WMD evidence was flimsy.

He is responsible for the failures in Iraq.

I say he deserves a medal.
 
2006-05-01 06:03:24 AM  
Powell has made a career of being on both sides of every issue.

You look back in his military career and his career as a presidential appointee. He always has a way he can be on the best side of history
 
2006-05-01 07:52:53 AM  
NewportBarGuy is starting to remind me of DragonOfAvarice, only with a different object of infatuation.
 
2006-05-01 08:20:41 AM  
14 entries found for patsy.
Main Entry: butt
Part of Speech: noun 2
Definition: joke object
Synonyms: chump*, clay pigeon*, derision, Powell, dupe*, easy mark*, fall guy, fool, goat, jest, jestee*, joke, laughing stock, mark, mock, patsy, pigeon*, point, sap, setup*, sitting duck*, softie*, sport, subject, sucker, target, turkey, victim
Source: Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.2.1)
Copyright © 2006 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.
* = informal or slang
 
2006-05-01 12:08:25 PM  
Powell's comment that he was a Rockefeller
Republican (IE, moderate to liberal) doomed
his political career.

Damn shame. Would've been a president in the
mold of Eisenhower.
 
2006-05-01 01:29:37 PM  
Seconded. If your ship is headed for the rocks, it's a better idea to stay aboard and try to steer it off, than to jump overboard and shout advice to those left behind. Even if that means you end up sharing the blame for the running aground.

Much better to stay aboard and actively *help* said morons steer the ship into the rocks, right? That's what Powell did. I'm sure he made some protesting noises but in the end, he took the easy way out.

If he truly believed it was a mistake, he should've resigned and gone public. Instead, he chose to go along with the fiasco. That's not leadership; it's cowardice.
 
2006-05-01 04:38:41 PM  
DjangoStonereaver:

Highly overated and boring as a president?

/Powell and Ike were both Overated Generals to
 
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