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(Guardian)   Presidente Bush dice que el Himno Nacional se debe cantar en inglés   (guardian.co.uk) divider line 235
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7188 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Apr 2006 at 12:38 PM (8 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2006-04-29 01:47:47 PM
In Albuquerque, New Mexico, the daily recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance in the schools alternates between English and Spanish.
 
2006-04-29 01:48:50 PM
Great Janitor
Why must it be acceptible?

Because they are only words.

The Contitution sets itself apart as a fundamental authoritative document, and no recognized supplement can or ever will be written in another language.

Translations, even grossly altered and perverted translations, can certainly be written, publicly displayed, or whatever. The right to do this is guaranteed by the first amendment. This doesn't mean that anyone is replacing the ideas that officially form the basis of our government.

Would you really want to live in a country whose government would tell you what you can or cannot say?
 
2006-04-29 01:49:05 PM
LIGAFF

But do they throw in bits about how the law is unfair to their particular ethnic groups, and how said groups must "break the chains" of the same Republic they're swearing themselves to?
 
2006-04-29 01:49:16 PM
Antheme - heheh..classic.

""I think the national anthem ought to be sung in English, and I think people who want to be a citizen of this country ought to learn English and they ought to learn to sing the national anthem in English," Mr Bush said when asked at a press conference about the Spanish version."

That's so small minded it's incredible. Loads of countries have several official languages. They used to speak Gaelic in North Carolina, Native American is still spoken I take it, so is Spanish, Chinese, French, German, Greek, Italian etc etc..
 
F42
2006-04-29 01:50:24 PM
George Bush: (FTFA) "I think the national anthem ought to be sung in English, and I think people who want to be a citizen of this country ought to learn English and they ought to learn to sing the national anthem in English,""One of the important things here is that we do not lose our national soul,"

National_Soul = White_Anglo-Saxon_Protestant;
 
2006-04-29 01:50:38 PM
Dave L

They used to speak Gaelic in North Carolina...

I'm pretty sure five-thousand or so still do, just FYI.
 
2006-04-29 01:52:25 PM
What a crock of farking shiate.

The Star Spangled Banner has already long been translated into many languages besides Spanish, including Yiddish, American Sign Language, and Polish.

And, as anyone with experience in actual language translation knows, translation is often not a "word for word" exercise, but "thought for thought. " Words that sound trite or disrespectful or even offensive to some in one language ("Oh My God!") don't have that same sense in the other ("Ay Dios Mio!".)

So no, the words in Spanish don't sound trite, they sound just fine, ogt462 and onomatopoetic, for the Spanish Language, a major language of commerce and economic production across the U.S--not to mention an important language of urban poltiics in many areas, such as Miami, NYC, LA and Chicago.

I suppose GOP Reactionaries and Lou Dobbs won't be happy until even Deaf people have to sing it in English, instead of ASL.
 
2006-04-29 01:53:57 PM
Somacandra

What a crock of farking shiate.

The Star Spangled Banner has already long been translated into many languages besides Spanish, including Yiddish, American Sign Language, and Polish.

And, as anyone with experience in actual language translation knows, translation is often not a "word for word" exercise, but "thought for thought. "


Which verses in the English version speak of the "mean laws" against Hispanics?
 
2006-04-29 01:53:59 PM
TeaEarlGreyHot
¿desee vuelto a mi lugar, haga el bouncy del bouncy?

/googled
 
2006-04-29 01:55:37 PM
2DShooter, REVA. iBien hecho!
 
2006-04-29 01:55:45 PM
So much for multi culturalism.
 
2006-04-29 01:56:49 PM
treesloth

And how many American 14 year olds can speak two languages? Now head over to Germany, Holland, Czech Republic, Austria, Swizterland, Norway and a lot of other countries. You're looking at percentages nearing 100 if not 100. I don't think there's anyone in Holland under 40 who doesn't speak English fluently. Norwegians not only speak flawless English, they barely have an accent when they do. Oh and they really don't consider learning English as a foreign language class. More like "what it takes to get along in the world" class.

I remember a Norwegian student at my dorm my second year of college. She could speak German and French as easily as she could English or Norwegian. She never understood why anyone thought this was unusual. The two Finnish students spoke not only perfect English but spoke to the German students in German.
 
2006-04-29 01:58:11 PM
Somacandra

Well I think the concern is more about how the full meaning of the anthem has itself been significantly altered in the Spanish version.

BUT, that still does not make it wrong.

Unless, of course, you are afraid of Spanish-speaking people, and you envision an uprising conspiracy in which your government is eventually overthrown by revolutionary Mexicans with their tacos and their Himno Nacional. But then I think you'd have to be crazy or stupid.
 
2006-04-29 01:59:08 PM
Best "translation" ever:

people.msoe.edu
 
2006-04-29 01:59:23 PM
Eochada: Which verses in the English version speak of the "mean laws" against Hispanics?

I don't think the version translated by the US Bureau of Education has that.

Though I could be wrong, I'm not fluent.
 
2006-04-29 01:59:37 PM

Would you really want to live in a country whose government would tell you what you can or cannot say?


Not exactly true. What I want is to know that if I'm working somewhere and on the floor there's a patch of oil or something slippery, I want to know that the person telling that it's slippery to be able to tell me, and be able to understand that person. And I would like to also be able to warn other people and have them understand me, instead of me telling them, them not understanding english, slipping, falling, then suing because they did not know it was dangerous because no one told them in what ever language that they speak that it was dangerous.

I would like to know that as someone who does not know spanish, that I will not be fired and replaced by someone who's bilingual so the company can do business with people who refuse to learn the local language (I would also like to biatch slap the clients who tell me that I should learn spanish because it's the language).

What ever you say, or in what ever language you say it in is fine with me. But I want to know that those who I work with can speak english and that those I do business with speak english (clearly this won't apply to any business or work done internationally).
 
2006-04-29 02:02:16 PM
Number41

I don't think the version translated by the US Bureau of Education has that.

And I don't think the version translated by the BoE is what's being talked about, unless people just aren't paying attention.

Of course, with all the blather between those who can't be bothered to understand what's actually going on ("you're just afraid of Mexicans!") and those who really do think other languages are inherently hostile ("speak English or die!"), a lot of reality is being missed here.
 
2006-04-29 02:04:26 PM
Eochada: Of course, with all the blather between those who can't be bothered to understand what's actually going on ("you're just afraid of Mexicans!") and those who really do think other languages are inherently hostile ("speak English or die!"), a lot of reality is being missed here.

Okay - I wasn't sure if you fell into the "non-English is inherently wrong" camp. Making a fuss over what some asshole British guy did is stupid, though.
 
2006-04-29 02:05:05 PM
Great Janitor

It seems like the responsibility of making sure employees are able to communicate adequately is a matter best dealt with by employers, not by Uncle Sam. It's obviously not in any company's best interests to allow for communication barriers among its employees (at least, it seems very unlikely).

I guess though, in modern America, people are afraid to be left to their own devices.

/daddy protect me
 
2006-04-29 02:05:52 PM
Great Janitor: I would like to know that as someone who does not know spanish, that I will not be fired and replaced by someone who's bilingual so the company can do business with people who refuse to learn the local language (I would also like to biatch slap the clients who tell me that I should learn spanish because it's the language).

So you're in favor of companies hiring less-qualified people for a job? Nothing's stopping you from learning another language - if it gets to the point where it's needed for your company, I'd say you'd be in a place with two local languages, not one.
 
2006-04-29 02:07:34 PM
Just in case it hasn't been said. The US has no official language. English is merely the customary language. There is no legislation establishing English as the official language. Congress has never passed a resolution of any sort delcaring an official language. A few states declare English the language of government for the state but that's as far as it gets. We indeed live in a time when there's the smallest number of non-English and bilingual schools in the history of the country.
 
2006-04-29 02:08:21 PM
Number41

Okay - I wasn't sure if you fell into the "non-English is inherently wrong" camp.

Not at all. I speak English at work, when I'm doing business around town and when the other person is more comfortable with it. That's it. I can hardly be a kneejerk linguaphobe; there are days where I get rather squirrelly and refuse to speak English at all. I just don't leave the house.

Making a fuss over what some asshole British guy did is stupid, though.

I think the fuss will more accurately be about Hispanics taking it and running with it here in the States. Or they can just let it die and move on, which would, I believe, be more intelligent.
 
2006-04-29 02:09:30 PM
There are no sacared cows.
 
F42
2006-04-29 02:11:01 PM
Eochada: But do they throw in bits about how the law is unfair to their particular ethnic groups, and how said groups must "break the chains" of the same Republic they're swearing themselves to?

img49.imageshack.us

/imageshack
 
2006-04-29 02:11:49 PM
F42

If you're enslaving Mexicans, stop.
 
2006-04-29 02:12:46 PM
selloco

I prefer the Mark Twain quote "Sacred cows make the best hamburger"
 
2006-04-29 02:14:16 PM
pegasus.cc.ucf.edu
 
2006-04-29 02:16:49 PM
Bush: "One of the important things here is that we do not lose our national soul."

Too late for that. "Our national soul" was lost when the schools started pushing bilingual education and multiculturalism.
 
2006-04-29 02:17:12 PM
И если Я хочу петь по-русски?

What is this word "ought"? Is it only used by Presidents?

Doesn't the US Constitution & several other important documents give We the People Freedom of speech?

Thanks to the Hispanics that want to sing my Anthem in any language. That song & the US Flag is pretty importante to alot of us guys here. Buzzy.
 
2006-04-29 02:17:47 PM
WhyteRaven74 [TotalFark]

treesloth

And how many American 14 year olds can speak two languages?


Don't know. I do know, however, that twice in college, professors asked everyone to write down and hand in various bits about themselves. In one class of 40, there were 28 different langauges. Only 5 didn't speak a second language. This was a calculus 1 class at a very large university. The other class was slighty lower, but pretty close. Personally, I agree that languages should be taught. There are proven benefits. I also think that all university students should take either 2 semesters of calculus or rigorous philosophy, but that's just because I'm tired of working with people that couldn't reason their way out of a paper bag. (For example, the idiot HR director that actually said, "I just don't see why everyone can't be above average".) My disagreement was with the original idiot's blanket statement regarding the entire country.
 
2006-04-29 02:20:12 PM
oryx

Too late for that. "Our national soul" was lost when the schools started pushing bilingual education and multiculturalism.

You're speaking of the old American soul. It was outsourced.
 
2006-04-29 02:20:21 PM
Somacandra: What a crock of farking shiate.


I'm sure if it were a literal translation it wouldn't be such a big deal... but there's been quite a bit of political bullshiat added to the lyrics of the Spanish version.
 
2006-04-29 02:20:28 PM
oryx: Too late for that. "Our national soul" was lost when the schools started pushing bilingual education and multiculturalism.

Oi. If you really believe that multiculturalism is bad for society, I mourn for America. With that, I'm off to get some work done.
 
2006-04-29 02:21:44 PM
Great Janitor

Also:

If a client prefers Spanish-speaking collaborators, that is their prerogative. If you want their business, you learn Spanish. That's generally how services have always worked in a capitalist economy. You can only sell something to someone if you have something they want to buy.

I fail to see where the government owes you the responsibility of forcing said clients into entering an undersirable contract, just to protect you, Joe I-Don't-Want-To-Learn-Spanish.

Learning foreign languages is not THAT difficult. Surely you can do it if your job is worth the effort to you. If it's not, you probably want another job.

/besides, knowing at least two languages is good for you, regardless of what those languages are (pig latin does not count)
 
2006-04-29 02:21:49 PM
An Yours Truly is a litte slow on the trigger today.
 
2006-04-29 02:21:58 PM
FLYNAVY

Doesn't the US Constitution & several other important documents give We the People Freedom of speech?

Ok, I'll go ahead and ask: why do so many of you get the idea the government is cracking down on these people?

You do know that's what "freedom of speech" is all about, yes? It's supposed to be freedom from the government censoring you, not from Farkers deriding you.
 
2006-04-29 02:23:59 PM
oryx I hope that was sarcastic, but either way: multiculturalism is the embodiment of America's soul.

The liberation of ideas is the best thing ever to (almost) happen to the human race.
 
2006-04-29 02:24:11 PM
Next on the congressional lawmaker plate: Passing an amendment that makes it a crime to sing the National Anthem in any language other than english. Yeah. Line this one up behind the "can't burn the flag" amendment.

/English, Mexican... Who gives a fcuk???
 
2006-04-29 02:24:14 PM
JOSE CAN YOU SI!
 
2006-04-29 02:25:17 PM
Dado en un fuego.

/I think that covers everything important
 
2006-04-29 02:25:31 PM
Bush: "One of the important things here is that we do not lose our national soul."

How long before we start singing about "man on dog"?

Nip it in the bud.
 
F42
2006-04-29 02:25:54 PM
Great Janitor: My point is that what's being done with the U.S. National Antheme is not needed. There is no reason (other than to be insulting) for there to be a spanish version of the U.S. National Antheme


Other than to be insulting...

Wow. I mean, they can't POSSIBLY want to sing in their own language, noooooooo, they can only mean to piss off xenophobes! How DARE they refuse to hide!?! Why must they insult you by overtly existing? Those bastards!
 
2006-04-29 02:26:18 PM
...well, multiculturalism, except for the natives.

fark them.

/wink
 
2006-04-29 02:27:52 PM
F42

Can you be bothered to learn exactly what it is you're looking foolish about? Please read the the thread and note the reported changes. If you, personally, do not have a problem with such sentiment, fine. But don't try to pretend it's just about their own language.
 
2006-04-29 02:27:53 PM
who cares? let them sing it in spanish

i'm sure somebody has made a Klingon version of the stat spangled banner, so who the hell cares? isn't it the message that counts?

/ya know the U.S. could've started out with german instead of english
 
2006-04-29 02:29:06 PM
AdamK

isn't it the message that counts?

Please see my last post to F42. Yes, it's the message that counts, and that's the entire issue unless you're simply xenophobic to begin with.
 
F42
2006-04-29 02:29:15 PM
Eochada: If you're enslaving Mexicans, stop.


Not until they finish digging that damn ditch, those lazy bastards.
 
2006-04-29 02:34:20 PM
Who cares?

If Spanish speaking people want to feel more American by singing the National Anthem in their own language, great! Learning another language is incredibly difficult when people become older. It is possible, but it is rather unrealistic.

When my Norwegian ancestors came to America (and became farmers in Kansas and Oklahoma), the oldest generation couldn't speak fluent English, but they made sure their children learned at school. They were poor Norwegian sailors that sought a better life in America and were granted a great opportunity, even though they couldn't read, write, or speak English fluently.

In my personal experience, taking Spanish classes didn't hurt my English skills; rather, it was my Spanish education that actually taught me to appreciate language structure and proper grammar.

/and my math learning didn't suffer either
//became an engineer
///now an attorney
 
2006-04-29 02:39:14 PM
Mexico can kiss my ass. Now they want to "shut down cities" on Monday... kiss my farking ass and go home.
 
2006-04-29 02:39:56 PM
SangamonTaylor

Who cares?

If Spanish speaking people want to feel more American by singing the National Anthem in their own language, great!


That's not the point at all.
 
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