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(Guardian)   Presidente Bush dice que el Himno Nacional se debe cantar en inglés   (guardian.co.uk) divider line 235
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7188 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Apr 2006 at 12:38 PM (8 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2006-04-29 01:13:49 PM
Nuestro presidente no tiene ni 2 celulas de materia gris ni pulgares oponibles. Por que le estamos haciendo caso?
 
2006-04-29 01:14:15 PM
www.weeklyfilm.com

Not amused.
 
2006-04-29 01:14:28 PM
It's not the national anthem anymore once they change the words to express their own sentiments rather than those of the nation.
 
2006-04-29 01:14:36 PM
Why? Why the hell should the U.S. national antheme be in a language other then english? Would you ever take the French national antheme and rewrite it in another language, even changing some of the words here and there? Would the French even tolerate it? What about the Mexican national antheme?

Odds are, if you went to any other country and played their national antheme in a language that is not the national tongue, they might get upset. So why should it be different for us? Why is it that France or Denmark can enforce a national language and when the U.S. tries it, or when a U.S. citizen wants it we're referred to a close minded and/or xenophobic? To me it just seems like a huge double standard.
 
2006-04-29 01:15:38 PM
jjorsett

I'm talking about the freedom to say or sing or write whatever you want in any language, because it seems absurd to think that such a freedom is unwarranted.

This has nothing to do with the Mexican government, and I have no idea what gave you that impression.
 
2006-04-29 01:16:03 PM
jjorsett: Who appointed you Spokesbeing for America? *I've* got a problem with it.

This seems a lot like the reasoning against gay marriage. You sing in English, other people can sing in Spanish. How are you being affected by the spanish speakers?

And being a resident of the US, I can say so without fear of getting my head bashed in by, oh, a Mexican cop.

Ohhh... it's an anti-Mexican thing. Gotcha.
 
2006-04-29 01:16:19 PM
"I think the national anthem ought to be sung in English, and I think people who want to be a citizen of this country ought to learn English and they ought to learn to sing the national anthem in English," Mr Bush said when asked at a press conference about the Spanish version.

For the first time in my life, I agree with the Smirking Chimp on something.

/Still doesn't change his title as Worst President Evar
 
2006-04-29 01:16:25 PM
Ich will eine Nationalhymne auf Deutsch.
 
2006-04-29 01:17:37 PM
I'm with you Eochada. Translating the National Anthem into Spanish is nothing more than a political move and one that pisses me off mightily at that. This wouldn't be stood for in any other country.
 
2006-04-29 01:18:28 PM
Joder, tio, me cago en la puta leche.

/Let's see the filters deal with that
 
2006-04-29 01:19:36 PM
Number41
This seems a lot like the reasoning against gay marriage. You sing in English, other people can sing in Spanish. How are you being affected by the spanish speakers?

It doesn't affect anyone personally per se. However it does bastardize an integral piece of our national heritage and I take issue with that.
 
2006-04-29 01:20:41 PM
www.bits.bris.ac.uk
 
2006-04-29 01:21:04 PM
For roughly 100 years a large percentage of Americans were German speakers. Not immigrants, but born and raised in American Americans. As for immigrants? Ohio opened bilingual schools for German immigrants, in the 1860's. And several states followed suit. None of the schools ever discouraged speaking German. They saw it as an asset that the kids would be fluent in two languages. Which it was, back then you couldn't get into many colleges unless you knew two languages. At least.

The founding fathers could almost to a man all speak several languages. Not only did they know Latin and classical Greek, they knew French, German, Italian and even other languages.

As for German speaking Americans, 200 years ago the percentage of Americans that spoke German as their main language was greater than the percentage who speak Spanish as their primary language today.
 
2006-04-29 01:21:24 PM
Kanyon

So where do you stand on the words "under God" in the Pledge?
 
2006-04-29 01:21:24 PM
webfantasy.info

I am Inigo Montoya. You made a new anthem. Prepare to sing.
 
2006-04-29 01:22:05 PM
Kanyon: This wouldn't be stood for in any other country.

?? Canada - two official langauges. Switzerland - 4. India - 23.
 
2006-04-29 01:23:11 PM
on another note, i actually agree with W on this


/dad i'm scared.
//me too kids
///They took our jobs!!!
 
2006-04-29 01:23:28 PM
Unidad, derecha, liberdad
Para'l pais aleman:
Como hermanos dediquemos
Nuestro corazon y mano!

/got nothing
 
2006-04-29 01:23:39 PM
2006-04-29 01:14:36 PM Great Janitor

Why? Why the hell should the U.S. national antheme be in a language other then english?


Ah, the irony is delicious.
 
2006-04-29 01:23:45 PM
Maxwell's Daemon

As a matter of separation of church and state, I'm against it.
 
2006-04-29 01:23:53 PM
So, how much longer until the Declaration of Independence is rewritten into Spanish? Or the U.S. Constitution?
 
2006-04-29 01:24:31 PM
sounds likea great idea
hey, let's change the stock market over to spanish as well
and all judicial proceedings - that's shouldn't be too much of a problem
now... where's my Goya tamarindo juice...
 
2006-04-29 01:25:41 PM
Kanyon: However it does bastardize an integral piece of our national heritage and I take issue with that.

This actually sounds more like the reasoning for anti-gay marriage than before (1 man-1 woman is the way it's always been). Change happens. The original English version still exists, we haven't bastardized it at all... we've just added this other thing.
 
2006-04-29 01:26:18 PM
We need to dig up the corpses of every present-day conservative's ancestors who never learned English and send them back to wherever they came from. All of those unpatriotic freeloaders did nothing to contribute to our society, and they showed great disrespect by not learning English.
 
2006-04-29 01:26:35 PM
Malum

Freedom of Expression, they can sing any FARKING thing they WANT to sing ANY WAY THEY WANT TO SING IT......

STFU and LET THEM.


Freedom of expression, we can say any farking thing we want, any way we want to say it...

STFU and let us, hypocrite.
 
2006-04-29 01:27:17 PM
I honestly don't mind the anthem, I mind the people on TV talking about it. They say things like "This is just how Mexican immigrants want to show their patriotism."

No it's not.

If you want to show your pride in being a part of a band, are you going to sing its songs in another language? If I moved to a foreign country, I'd show my pride in living there by learning THEIR language and singing THEIR anthem, not writing a new one. Writing a new anthem is their way of saying "We are attention whores."
 
2006-04-29 01:27:41 PM
Great Janitor: So, how much longer until the Declaration of Independence is rewritten into Spanish? Or the U.S. Constitution?

You don't believe that the ideals in those documents should be able to be understood by Spanish speakers?

(Actually, I'm sure they've already been translated into Spanish. I'm not sure what you're arguing.)
 
2006-04-29 01:28:17 PM
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Viste natten igennem at vores flag stadig var der
Sig mig, vajer det stjernestrimg.photobucket.comede banner stadig der
Over de fries land og de modiges hjem
 
2006-04-29 01:29:19 PM
FTFA: "The Spanish version is largely faithful to the English original, apart from the second stanza which says, "My people keep fighting. It's time to break the chains."

Anybody have an English translation of the Spanish version so I can see how that line fits in? What did they change and why did they change it?

FTFA: "The Spanish version is the brainchild of the New York-based British music producer Adam Kidron, who said the intention had been to honour America's immigrants."

Thanks Adam, but don't do me any more favors.
 
2006-04-29 01:30:08 PM
Malum

My sentiment exactly.

How is this fundamental point so easy to miss?


People are getting all uppity with their extrapolation of the issue out to things like rewriting the Declaration of Independence or changing the stock market (uh, what?). Those are absurd suggestions.

Nobody is taking away your national anthem that you are so fond of, nobody is changing your stock market (again, uh, what?), and nobody is taking away your Declaration of Independence.

They. are. singing. a. farking. song. in. Spanish.

They can call it the national anthem if they want.

YOU GET TO CHOOSE WHETHER OR NOT YOU PERSONALLY WILL RESPECT IT AS SUCH.

YOU DO NOT GET TO CHOOSE WHETHER OR NOT SOMEBODY ELSE DOES THE SAME.

/all hail the death of the American dream
 
2006-04-29 01:32:23 PM
Number41
This actually sounds more like the reasoning for anti-gay marriage than before (1 man-1 woman is the way it's always been). Change happens. The original English version still exists, we haven't bastardized it at all... we've just added this other thing.

Well I suppose we're just getting into a matter of opinion. I see this as purely a political move and you, I assume, see this as welcome addition. Change does happen but countries have a right to preserve their heritage, culture, etc. I view this as an affront to my culture and I don't like it. That's just me. You're entitled to your opinion.
 
2006-04-29 01:32:27 PM
I'm not entirely sure, but I think it should say "President Bush dice que El Himno Nacional se deba cantado en ingles." I think that decir in that instance is uncertain, thus the subjunctive, and then cantado is the passive participle in "should be sung." Again, not sure.

/Knows Russian better.
//Do svidaniya.
///Suki.
////Slash.
 
2006-04-29 01:32:28 PM
Eochada

It wasn't even the national anthem for over a century after it was written. The tune is an old drinking song, hence the melody you can't sing unless you're drunk. And when it did become the national anthem, it ticked off a lot of people who favored other songs. Then again, Francis Scott Key was a lawyer, Congress is full of lawyers, do the math.

Before the Star Spangled Banner was the national anthem, the national anthem was? Really wasn't one.
 
2006-04-29 01:32:51 PM
If you have a problem with it being done in Spanish, then feel free to shout it from the rooftops because I'll agree with you, in so far as I agree with allowing them to translate it into Spanish as well, because it is a freedom of speech, since language is rather arbitrary and not a specific set defined for what is speech or isn't speech in a whole.

Similarly, if you have a problem with it being translated and reworded in Spanish, then once again feel free since I'm still upholding both of your rights to shout and their right to sing.

If you can get the owner of the stadium and the owners of the two teams to agree to the Spanish or altered-Spanish version, more power to you, but it defaults to English without this agreement let us say. As well, I don't really care about anyone but who hires the singer for the anthem to be given the choice, I just figure it would be nice to not annoy people who would like it in English by making a unilateral decision.

But, at all functions government run, the anthem will be in English, it is the only national language of the United States, and is the standard, if you remove the tradition of English then remove the anthem altogether since the tradition is therefore meaningless.

Use of a Spanish version would only further to segregate us as we find it necessary to use differing versions rather than a unified version for all peoples regardless, in the honoring of that tradition which we established, is either entirely held or entirely not held. Especially of problem would be those with rewordings, I personally hate the new pledge of allegiance, I wasn't alive for the old one, but until we have Spanish as a national language there is no necessity to alter the anthem, as there is no necessity for the new pledge of allegiance, it missed nothing originally for the nation itself.

Now, I'd ask we all stop ejaculating over how emotional the speaker for our particular side is, and instead start masturbating on how hot latino women are when basking in the sun, dripping in sweat in tight and revealing clothing, especially doing that little tongue thing to a cherry right out of a glass of coke.

/checks for pictures of Salma Hayek
 
2006-04-29 01:34:35 PM

Watch for the Mexicans on May 1 demonstrations holding up signs that say.....

RESISTANCE IS FUTILE
 
2006-04-29 01:34:58 PM
MtLebanonBalogna

Anybody have an English translation of the Spanish version so I can see how that line fits in? What did they change and why did they change it?

Interesting parts of the Himno:

It's time to make a difference the kids, men and the women
Let's stand for our beliefs, let's stand for our vision
What about the children
These kids have no parents, cause all of these mean laws.
See this can't happen, not only about the Latins.
Asians, blacks and whites and all they do is adding more and more, let's not start a war
with all these hard workers, they can't help where they were born.
 
2006-04-29 01:35:09 PM
Number41

Great Janitor: So, how much longer until the Declaration of Independence is rewritten into Spanish? Or the U.S. Constitution?

You don't believe that the ideals in those documents should be able to be understood by Spanish speakers?

(Actually, I'm sure they've already been translated into Spanish. I'm not sure what you're arguing.)


My point is that what's being done with the U.S. National Antheme is not needed. There is no reason (other than to be insulting) for there to be a spanish version of the U.S. National Antheme, and if this is going to be done, what might the next step be? A spanish version of the Declaration of Indepence on display next to the original? Is it needed, hell no. Should there be one? Again, hell no.
 
2006-04-29 01:36:53 PM
WhyteRaven74

None of that changes the fact that a song in Spanish talking about "all of these mean laws" and "let's not start a war with all these hard workers" is simply not, in any logical way, our national anthem.
 
2006-04-29 01:37:20 PM
Atrus: I'm not entirely sure, but I think it should say "President Bush dice que El Himno Nacional se deba cantado en ingles."

No, the headline is fine like it is. "Deba" would be subjunctive, and isn't used in a statement of fact.

Could also say: Presidente Bush dice que el himno nacional debe cantarse en ingles.

Or: Presidente Bush dice que el himno nacional debe ser cantado en ingles.

/hispanic literature degree, native spanish speaker
//not submitter
 
2006-04-29 01:39:19 PM
Eochada
It's time to make a difference the kids, men and the women
Let's stand for our beliefs, let's stand for our vision
What about the children
These kids have no parents, cause all of these mean laws.
See this can't happen, not only about the Latins.
Asians, blacks and whites and all they do is adding more and more, let's not start a war
with all these hard workers, they can't help where they were born.


Just so I'm clear, are you saying that this whole verse was added to the Spanish version?
 
2006-04-29 01:39:54 PM
Great Janitor

As far as I know the Constitution was published in German within a month of its ratification. Could have been within a couple weeks, even less. Was the only way to make sure Americans all knew what they were un for. Several million Americans spoke German, not English. And many who spoke English didn't speak it well enough to get all the concepts in the Constitution.

And for fun, yet useless, trivia during the first few elections of the president, to be a member of the Electoral College a man had to know Latin and classical Greek.
 
2006-04-29 01:40:28 PM
Great Janitor

I'll grant you that, this is certainly not needed, but the real question being asked is, "Is it acceptible?"

I think the answer, in America, must without exception be "Yes."

Feel free to disagree, but that would be contradictory to actually believing in a word of that Declaration you are so adamant about protecting.
 
2006-04-29 01:40:49 PM
Kanyon

It's a chorus in addition to the more-standard (though not unaltered) body.

So says the Chicago Tribune, anyway.
 
2006-04-29 01:40:57 PM
Great Janitor: My point is that what's being done with the U.S. National Antheme is not needed. There is no reason (other than to be insulting) for there to be a spanish version of the U.S. National Antheme, and if this is going to be done, what might the next step be? A spanish version of the Declaration of Indepence on display next to the original? Is it needed, hell no. Should there be one? Again, hell no.

The Spanish language issue is a big deal over a problem that isn't there. (Immigration is a separate issue).

From this article:

The actual Census figure for residents over five who speak no English is only 1.9 million - proportionately only a quarter as high as it was in 1890, at the peak of the last great wave of immigration. And even if we include people who report speaking English "not well," the number of residents with limited English proficiency stands at around six million people in all. This is not a huge figure when you consider the extent of recent immigration and the difficulty that adults have in acquiring a new language, particularly when they are working in menial jobs that involve little regular contact with English speakers. (Or to put it another way: More than 97 percent of Americans speak English well, a level of linguistic homogeneity unsurpassed by any other large nation in history.)

If it weren't for the immigration problem bubbling over, I don't think this would have come up - it's not realy a problem. It does, however, expose some viewpoints that I don't agree with. Of course they won't put a Spanish language Constitution next to the original one, but they aren't singing the Spanish anthem at official events, either. I have no problem embracing a second national language - the history of English in the country is still there.
 
2006-04-29 01:42:01 PM
I'll grant you that, this is certainly not needed, but the real question being asked is, "Is it acceptible?"

I think the answer, in America, must without exception be "Yes."


Why must it be acceptible?
 
2006-04-29 01:42:46 PM
Eochoda

None of it changes that anyone who gets wrapped up in a song as national heritage, sure doesn't understand national heritage. Nor patriotism.

/Benjamin Franklin, John Jay, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, Alexander Hamilton, read them, you'll know what I mean
 
2006-04-29 01:44:55 PM
WhyteRaven74

Thanks, I've never heard of those guys or read their work, as your stunning deconstruction of the positions you imagine me to hold demonstrates.

/nonsense is greeted with nonsense
 
2006-04-29 01:45:42 PM
I don't particularly care what language it's in, as long as it's a faithful translation, which the one being sung isn't. They can sing it until they're blue in the face. They just shouldn't claim it's a translation of the Star-Spangled Banner, because it's not. They just need to call something that actually indicates what it is. "Himno Nacional" is not it.
 
2006-04-29 01:47:04 PM
smeegle [TotalFark]

It would do this country some good to grow some intelligence and learn to speak more than one language.


Some of us do speak several languages, retard.
 
2006-04-29 01:47:14 PM
I wish our president was actually fluent in the English language.
 
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