Didn't the United States do this in 1964?

Sounds like someone read Ismhael

Spain = The New France?

Lerxst2k

Spain = The New France?

More like Spain = The New... Newer...Newest New Zealand.

So does this mean that apes will go to jail if they commit a crime as well? How exactly will that work? Any speculation?

/Get a brain! Spanish morans

This is from the New Zealand link:

The right not to be deprived of life - No hominid shall be deprived of life except on such grounds as are established by law and are consistent with the principles of fundamental justice.

The right not to be subjected to torture or cruel treatment - Every hominid has the right not to be subjected to torture or to cruel, degrading, or disproportionately severe treatment or punishment; and

The right not to be subjected to medical or scientific experimentation - Every hominid has the right not to be subjected to medical or scientific experimentation that is not in the best interests of that hominid.

uptonogood: and the rest of the world thinks americans have too much free time ... ha!

No, they pretty much think you are assholes. Europeans are the ones with free time.

Yeah, when unemployment rates as high as they are in most of Europe, you tend to have a lot of free time.

I think if I were one of these unemployed Europeans, I'd volunteer to work as foreign aid and relief in Africa or something. Of course then I'd biatch about the US government not giving enough foreign aid, conveniently forgetting, of course we supply the most UN peacekeepers, the most private foreign aid per capita, and a large chunk of volunteer aid workers despite our low unemployment. I guess assholes can't resist leaving work behind to break their ass in a hellhole. What jerk offs, right?

If the Americans didn't act like assholes, Europeans outside of France and England and maybe a few others would have to raise real armies, not the tiny show armies they have now (I'm all for it, then you can send more than 2 UN peacekeepers and a broken down Jeep and quit making us supply, well, 90% of the men and equipment. Wait, I thought we were asshole, so why would we sacrifice so much money and endanger so many of ours to stop a conflict that usually has little or no effect on us?), and that would really cut into the tax money that pays for the denial that mostly all of those countries are thick as thieves with our government. This why they don't have the guts to all stand together and attempt UN sanctions and trade embargoes against that mean ol' US (it would destroy their economies (and everyone else's) and probably expose a plethora of concessions made even by the countries whose population truly hate the US's actions (You all help the in some way, in some capacity, so we can run our little wars and torture programs. You all benefit from some of our most despicable actions) current. If the US is out of control, but until a bunch more European countries manage to grow a little more spine than a jellyfish, nothing will change.)

Anti-American Westerners are, on the one hand, totally right about how shiatty we act, and on the other hand, in total denial about how guilty their own countries are, and how much of that blood got on their own hands. And they totally refuse to see that until they do something other than biatch, they are in some ways as much assholes as the average American.

eqtworld

I knew humans were primates which are mammals, i just never made the connection with Hominidae meaning great apes.


karlandtanya

If man's an ape, then an ape's a man.

That logic is invalid, and here's one counterexample (it's all it takes to prove an argument invalid in logic): If a square's a rectangle is a square.

Now, a square is defined as a four-sided parallelogram with equal side lengths and equal angles. A rectangle is defined as a four sided parallelogram with equal angles, but not necessarily equal side lengths.

/Yeah! I used something I learned in Symbolic logic!

marsupial:
Here, have a beer and try to relax a little.
You seem worked up about something. Wanna talk about it?

Replace "If a square's a rectangle is a square" with "If a square's a rectangle, then a rectangle is a square."

/Fark typos.

Sign me up to marry a chimp... with those long flexible lips they can kiss like there's no tomorrow!

/speakin from experience.

Near miss, submitter. Should have had Heston saying "Get your stinkin' paws off my rights, you damned dirty ape!"

http://science.monstersandcritics.com/news/article_1158607.php/Spain_may_grant _rights_to_great_apes

If the initiative is approved, it would make Spain one of the first countries to officially protect the rights of apes, said a spokeswoman for the animal rights association ADDA.

The socialists want to prohibit the 'enslaving' of gorillas, chimpanzees, orangutangs and bonobos.

Spain would thus adhere to the international Great Ape Project, granting the animals the rights to life, freedom and to not being tortured.

'We are not talking about granting human rights to great apes,' but about 'protecting (their) habitat, avoiding their ill-treatment and their use in various circus activities,' Environment Minister Cristina Narbona explained.

Great apes are kept in small cages in Spanish zoos and circuses, reports said. They may be castrated, and their vocal cords are sometimes cut to make them keep quiet.

Why does anyone think this is a bad idea? These apes should be afforded the same right to not be tortured or killed as the severly mentally disabled and very young children. Sentient beings should have at least some protection...

More voters for the left?

If an underage ape wants an abortion will it have to get parental permission?

/Why yes, I am an idiot, why do you ask?

They won't make a monkey out of me..


THEY MADE A MONKEY OUT OF ME!!!!


I love you guys.

"What, insurance isn't enough? /booooo!"


You are a wonderful Human being, obz, ... at least - I think you are a human being. In the case you're a caveman, sorry - I just didn't think you guys were around anymore.

/off to do more research .. *Scofs*

Redefine Spanish Socialists as apes.

mrdctaylor: I'm surprised the hard-core evolutionsists aren't defending this more.

I give you the Great Ape Project (or the Wiki entry), an international, scientifically backed movement to ensure that animals with whom we share the overwhelming majority of our genome, to say nothing of the capacity for sapience, emotion, culture and language, are granted the same basic civil rights as any intelligent creature.

Currently, in some parts of the world chimpanzees are still hunted for food or tourist gewgaws, despite the fact that an adult chimp can in fact demonstrate a greater capacity for learning and communication than many fully-entitled humans who are in some way impaired: retardation, trauma, or even simply youth or old age.

Well-known advocates include the Leakey family, the well known anthropologists; Jane Goodall; heavyweight evolutionary biologists like Richard Dawkins and the late Stephen Jay Gould; popular scientists such as Carl Sagan; and a whole bunch of intellectuals and activists you've never heard of, as well as substantial popular support.

And no, no one wants to give them the vote.

/PETA supports it too, of course, but we try not to mention that
//Nobody wants PETA on their team
///Spanish Socialists ARE apes. So are you.

Redefine Spanish Socialists as apes.

You don't have to redefine them, genius. They, along with all of the rest of us, are already classified as apes.

dittybopper: So, that limits us to... Human beings. None of the other great apes share the intelligence potential, ability to form languages or cultural constructs at anywhere near human levels. Emotions, maybe.

Done a lot of anthropological research, have you? Sorry, but I'm not going to accept your unfounded assertions over the word of folks like the Leakeys or Jane Goodall. I am willing to bet that if you have ever even seen an ape of any sort outside of television, it was a couple of minutes disinterested observation at a zoo. Go do your homework, then come back and talk.

I stand by my statement that most of the great apes have the capacity to exceed individuals who are granted these kind of protections on no basis other than their species. Hell, we fight viciously over whether our brain-dead citizens have an absolute right to life. Isn't it a little inconsistent to claim that, for example, cultural transmission of styles of tool use is not a valid "cultural construct" when chimps do it, but that it's a human tradition that we need to respect when it's an aboriginal tribe of Homo sapiens?

Oh, and I'm glad to see that Carl Sagan is keeping busy in the afterlife.

Har har. I could have said "late" twice in a row, but that would have sounded awkward, now wouldn't it?

i think most reasonable people could conclude at this point that there should be more restrictions on mistreatment of apes than most other animals.

i'm not counting people who don't believe in science, obviously.

Son of Thunder

As it stands, I'd say the chimps got the sweet part of the deal. All they have to do is eat, have sex and laze about in trees; meanwhile people have to deal with tax-returns, politicians and waiting in line at the supermarket.
I know what I'd choose if I had the option.

*Capt. Sheridan pic*
"I'll tell you one thing, if the primates that we came from had known that someday politicians would come out of the gene pool, they'd've stayed up in the trees and written evolution off as a bad idea ... I always thought the opposable thumb was overrated."

Well played.

eqtworld:Evolution is not a joke, biologists classify humans as a species of animal with no apology.

Your point?

um, Large Companies have the same rights as man. At least apes are alive

Edward I Longshanks: Here, here! Someone is relatively up-to-date with their Bioethics literature.

2006-04-26 10:31:26 AM caluml
What's wrong with people?
Sure, animals are great. But they're not equal to us.

No one is saying that they are, save the people over at PETA who most rational folk just ignore.

2006-04-26 11:33:08 AM karlandtanya
Well, that's what you get for listening to those crazy evolutionists. If man's an ape, then an ape's a man. Simple logic. Even a dogmatic darwinist can comprehend that.

Well, that's what we get for listening to those crazy mathematicians. If a circle's a rectangle, then a rectangle's a circle. Simple logic. Even a domatic mathematician can comprehend that.

First the gays and now this?

/drtfa

gene pool needs chlorine

Jesus was an Ape.

ban_sidhe: I've got a good feeling that article doesn't give the whole story. Bravo to the Spanish Socialists for taking a step in the right direction. Odd that it should come from a country that still allows bullfighting, however.


I've posted it before, but I'll do it again. The linked article is pretty skewed and not very informative. Here is a better article. (pops)

FTA: The socialists want to prohibit the 'enslaving' of gorillas, chimpanzees, orangutangs and bonobos.

Spain would thus adhere to the international Great Ape Project, granting the animals the rights to life, freedom and to not being tortured.

'We are not talking about granting human rights to great apes,' but about 'protecting (their) habitat, avoiding their ill-treatment and their use in various circus activities,' Environment Minister Cristina Narbona explained.

Why do people have a problem with this?

Yeah, since there's so many apes running around here. Let's give derechos to the elephant and platypus populations too.

/Let's get some decent legislation, like the relegalization of the botellon in Madrid

Jon Snow: 'We are not talking about granting human rights to great apes,' but about 'protecting (their) habitat, avoiding their ill-treatment and their use in various circus activities,' Environment Minister Cristina Narbona explained.

Also, I'd like to see a 12-17 month old child ask for their rights. Or a severly mentally-impared adult.

shadesofblack: dittybopper: So, that limits us to... Human beings. None of the other great apes share the intelligence potential, ability to form languages or cultural constructs at anywhere near human levels. Emotions, maybe.

Done a lot of anthropological research, have you? Sorry, but I'm not going to accept your unfounded assertions over the word of folks like the Leakeys or Jane Goodall. I am willing to bet that if you have ever even seen an ape of any sort outside of television, it was a couple of minutes disinterested observation at a zoo. Go do your homework, then come back and talk.

I stand by my statement that most of the great apes have the capacity to exceed individuals who are granted these kind of protections on no basis other than their species. Hell, we fight viciously over whether our brain-dead citizens have an absolute right to life. Isn't it a little inconsistent to claim that, for example, cultural transmission of styles of tool use is not a valid "cultural construct" when chimps do it, but that it's a human tradition that we need to respect when it's an aboriginal tribe of Homo sapiens?

Oh, and I'm glad to see that Carl Sagan is keeping busy in the afterlife.

Har har. I could have said "late" twice in a row, but that would have sounded awkward, now wouldn't it


If you love the primates so freaking much, why don't you go marry one. A person that can honestly sit there and type that freaking gorillas deserve the same rights as I do is an idiot who is too easily swayed.

"Oh wow, JoJo can wipe his ass when he takes a dump. Maybe he should be a tax auditer!"

The Billdozer: If you love the primates so freaking much, why don't you go marry one. A person that can honestly sit there and type that freaking gorillas deserve the same rights as I do is an idiot who is too easily swayed.

"Oh wow, JoJo can wipe his ass when he takes a dump. Maybe he should be a tax auditer!"

STFU and read what I typed at 2006-04-26 06:25:35 PM

The Billdozer: If you love the primates so freaking much, why don't you go marry one.[sic]

How quaint. I don't believe I've actually known someone to say that in at least fifteen years.

A person that can honestly sit there and type that freaking gorillas deserve the same rights as I do is an idiot who is too easily swayed.

Ah, of course. Your thoughtful, well-reasoned rebuttal has led me to see the error of my ways. But that might be because I'm too easily swayed.

"Oh wow, JoJo can wipe his ass when he takes a dump. Maybe he should be a tax auditer[sic]!"

To be fair, I've known apes who could submit a better post on Fark than certain neocon trolls I could name. And spell better, for that matter.

/I could try and use all of your peeve-words, but that would be more effort than it's worth.