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(ESPN)   University cuts four mens sports programs and one womens sports program. One guess as to which group has the ACLU suing on their behalf for discrimination   (sports.espn.go.com ) divider line
    More: Asinine  
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2039 clicks; posted to Politics » on 12 Apr 2006 at 5:35 PM (10 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



43 Comments     (+0 »)
 
 
jmf
2006-04-12 04:06:16 PM  
um...
 
2006-04-12 04:08:17 PM  
I don't think that counts as sex discrimination when they cut both men's and women's tennis. Besides, they cut three more men's teams.

I hate whiners.
 
2006-04-12 04:29:34 PM  
Drop football and baseball to save even more money. You could get rid of the sadium and put in, oh I don't know, classrooms?
 
2006-04-12 04:33:00 PM  
2wolves: Drop football and baseball to save even more money.


That's a negative, Ghostrider, the pattern is full. Football and basketball at most universities run well into the black and fund all the other sports as well as serve as a very strong recruiting tool. In addition, at the very strongest programs, the facilities usually aren't paid for by the school. What's better than a university with a great academic program? A university with a great academic program and a strong athletic program that offers an opportunity for entertainment and campus pride in between studies.
 
2006-04-12 04:33:37 PM  
baseball, too.
 
2006-04-12 04:38:53 PM  
As a former female athlete, let me just say that Title IX needs some revisement.

And that Damian is correct. Dropping football will most likely damage everything else. I know our football team pulls in more money than all the girls teams combined and that money helps fund them.
 
2006-04-12 04:54:13 PM  
2wolves
At UK, where we have a football team with a loosing season, they still make money.

Athletics funds a major part of most large Universities. Between TV and Radio contracts, Endorsement deals with the coaches, tickets sales, and a general recruiting source Athletics is a major requirement at most schools.
 
2006-04-12 04:55:11 PM  
Let's count to see which sex had more teams to start with.
 
2006-04-12 04:59:52 PM  
2wolves
Drop football and baseball to save even more money.
-------------------------------

Football probably breaks even at Missouri State, because they are not a D-I program that has to pay high costs of running an elite program.

The basketball teams, mens and womens, surely operate in the black and finance the other sports.
Missouri state has really good b-ball teams that constantly make the tourney.
 
2006-04-12 05:01:08 PM  
2wolves:

Yo, I didnt see you said BASEball. Their baseball team is also nationally ranked, but baseball is expensive to operate.
 
2006-04-12 05:33:44 PM  
If I had to guess, I'd say it was that second men's program.
 
2006-04-12 05:46:43 PM  
Baseball was dropped where I went to school so women's sports could be funded under Title 9. Funny how the ACLU didn't come to my rescue when I wanted a scholarship.
 
2006-04-12 05:47:22 PM  
But were they hot women tennis players?
 
2006-04-12 05:49:44 PM  
Charmed, you genius, ever heard of something called Title 9?
 
2006-04-12 06:12:28 PM  
Title IX is a great thing. Allows women the same opportunities as men.

But come ON now. Not only was only one program out of the five a women's sport, but that one sport (tennis) was dropped for both genders. The men lost tennis too, along with three other sports. The women are getting off easy here.
 
2006-04-12 06:14:31 PM  
The Lord hath no wrath like angry feminist.
 
2006-04-12 06:17:58 PM  
Damian:

That's a negative, Ghostrider, the pattern is full. Football and basketball at most universities run well into the black and fund all the other sports as well as serve as a very strong recruiting tool. In addition, at the very strongest programs, the facilities usually aren't paid for by the school. What's better than a university with a great academic program? A university with a great academic program and a strong athletic program that offers an opportunity for entertainment and campus pride in between studies.

Hell, hockey in the northern states makes money or breaks even.

The bottom line is that NONE of the women's sports make any money where at least 2 of the men's sports make enough money to fund the entire athletic program.
 
2006-04-12 06:24:24 PM  

Title IX is a great thing. Allows women the same opportunities as men.


Actually, it allows women more opportunities than men. If the scholarship totals have to be equal, imagine how many women's teams you could fill up with the scholarships used by Football alone.

Hell, San Diego State was forced to cut their Men's Volleyball program a few years ago. Considering that a) their football team sucks and always will and b) Men's Volleyball is the only NCAA Championship they ever Won (or ever will win), that's kinda sad. Football doesn't draw jack either, so don't give me the old "Well the Football team pays for blah blah blah sport" either.

/not everyone plays Football, Baseball, or Basketball
 
2006-04-12 06:33:21 PM  
I thought people went to college to learn.

Here's a solution:

Cancel all athetic scholarships and have the students pay to go to college like I do.

How many Title XI scholarships go to people over 40?
(sniff... sniff...)
I smell age discrimination.
 
2006-04-12 06:33:25 PM  
UDel_Kitty

As a former female athlete, let me just say that Title IX needs some revisement.

As someone who speaks English and went to college, let me just say that revisement is not a word.

/Supporting dumb jocks everywhere, regardless of sex....
 
2006-04-12 06:33:59 PM  
Why can't we just let these school operate the way they want? If enough of the students or another interested party(faculty, alumni etc.) want a women's tennis team, they will have one. If they don't why do we force them to have one?
 
2006-04-12 06:48:59 PM  
from the missouri state site

sports:
baseball- men
basketball-both
X-country- both
field hockey- women
football-men
golf-both
soccer-both
softball-women
swimming-both
tennis-both
track-both
volleyball-women

total count:
Men-9
Women-10

tell me how this is unfair to the women who a)already have more sports and b) are getting less cut?

and charmed, if you're claiming the men did so they deserved to have more cut STFU. if you're showing that the women shouldn't be biatching cause they had more already, then you are correct and this is just evidence of your claim.

/sorry for the long post
//really hates this shiat
 
2006-04-12 07:11:28 PM  
I believe that Title IX is not specific enough - it's left too open to interpretation. It does not define descrimination as pertains to athletics. Does it mean that there must be an equal number of men's teams as womens? Does it mean that there must be an equal number of scholarship positions for men and women? Football teams have much larger rosters than other sports, so unless a school has a women's football team, chances are they are going to need more women's teams to make up the difference.

If anything, I would think the cut men's teams would have the same argument as the cut women's teams. After all, Title IX was meant to deter sexual discrimination - and that goes for both sexes, right?
 
2006-04-12 07:26:54 PM  
Muta: I thought people went to college to learn.

Here's a solution:

Cancel all athetic scholarships and have the students pay to go to college like I do.

How many Title XI scholarships go to people over 40?
(sniff... sniff...)
I smell age discrimination.


Yeah, those damn geriatrics and their Title XI scholarships.
 
2006-04-12 07:48:37 PM  
Bulgaroktonos-
The government doesn't let the schools do what they want, because they would only keep the sports that make money. The fact is mens sports make much more money than womens sports at most schools. Even when comparing same sports (ie - men's basketball to women's basketball) the difference in profit is usually HUGE. And as much as some people hate to hear it, at larger D1 schools the football programs make more than enough profit to fund the other athletic programs.

So is there anything wrong with only supporting the sports people will want to watch. I don't want to compare Title IX with socialism, but it does force schools to support sports that will never make money and carry no interest beyond the participants, coaches, and parents.
 
2006-04-12 08:03:16 PM  
My sister the biggest feminist on God's green earth doesn't give two flying farks about the WNBA or any other woman's sport for that matter. As do most feminists. Title IX is a joke.
 
2006-04-12 08:53:15 PM  
Gosling: Title IX is a great thing. Allows women the same opportunities as men.


No. It doesn't. It offers them scholarships in programs that can't support themselves that people don't go watch.

Women are allowed to play on college football teams. Yeah, it's true. Colorado had a female kicker a few years ago just off the top of my head.

The oppurtunities are there for everyone to be able to play a sport at a high level, but because of Title IX instead of a school being able to have a high-quality wrestling team, they have to allow a low-quality tennis team that just happens to be filled with girls.

Title IX is the worst thing to happen to collegiate sports, ever. The sexes are supposed to be equal in their oppurtunities. Well if a guy is better at wrestling than a girl is at tennis, how is it fair that the guy isn't allowed to get a scholarship for his athletic abilities?

Thank you Title IX, for making no farking sense.

Equal oppurtunity my ass. If women can compete on the same field as men, then do it. Quit having stupid laws made that make no sense financially or as a way of making things 'fair' for women. Women can play with men at any level, from elementary to college. Quit saying women are physically equal and PROVE IT by competing with them from the earliest age. That's the only way that women will ever become 'equal'.

You know what. That right there is how Title IX can be beaten. Quit labeling teams as 'Mens' and 'Womens', which is just want all the Titel IX people want. Let women compete with men to be on the same basketball team, and only have that one per school. Same with baseball (instead of softball), swimming, tennis, wrestling... that will TRULY make things fair.

/Title IX makes me unhappy :(
 
2006-04-12 08:57:28 PM  
Oh,and what about all the women that won't be able to make the teams?

Intramural. Those are the programs for people who are not in the elite athletically.
 
2006-04-12 10:16:48 PM  
Oh,and what about all the women that won't be able to make the teams?

Intramural. Those are the programs for people who are not in the elite athletically.


I thought that's what the women's teams were for in the first place.
 
2006-04-12 10:19:47 PM  
WSU has 15 sports in total. 9 of them are women's sports. I already know a few people who would go nuts if they dropped any one of the women's sports. Its a freakin joke.
 
2006-04-12 10:20:31 PM  
I am not a law talkin guy, but I am studying to be one. And I am currently in a Sports Law class.

According to past interpretation the girls do have a case (as ridiculous as this sounds) because even when they cut the boys team there is still an imbalance in total number of participants (as a percentage of the population). Since the school has a football team (which might have as much membership as all female sports combined) it will be difficult to ever justify cutting a woman's program.

/not legal advice
 
2006-04-12 10:50:23 PM  
Title IX takes away opportunities. It completely ignores the financial aspect of college athletics, and the imbalance between the numbers required for men's vs women's teams. There are mid-range financial sports that could, or at least come close to, funding themselves. Men's hockey, baseball, lacrosse, volleyball are all possibilities. Unfortunately very few schools have them, because they'd need to fund another 2 women's teams to add the one men's team (in compliance with Title IX). So instead, they don't add the men's sport, and have fewer sports total.

The numbers involved in men's football, lacrosse, etc. vs women's sports also is ignored. Football requires at least 3 women's sports teams to comply in numbers, and men's lacrosse at least 2. Add to that the fact that almost all of the football players will be full scholarship athletes that are there primarily to play football, unlike most female athletes. The intentions behind Title IX were to give equal opportunities to STUDENTS, not the general public who only choose the university to play a sport. If you subtracted this group from both sides, you'll find an extreme imbalance towards women. There are far fewer opportunities for the average male student than female students.

/I believe my school has an imbalance of +5 women's sports
 
2006-04-12 10:51:13 PM  
I agree with thejrah,

If they want equality, give it to them.

1 Team for every sport at publically funded schools and let the students (no matter their gender) compete for spots on it.

Whoever is fastest at the 100m, gets the spot, who ever is the better soccer player, gets the spot on the team, whoever plays softball the best get on the team....

Then wait for "Womens rights" groups to start screaming/sueing it's unfair because they are not mens equals, in most popular American sports. And at least I can laugh.

/do the same with restrooms
//mens/womens only restrooms remind me to much of whites/coloreds
///give women equality now
 
2006-04-12 11:01:17 PM  
This thread is useless without pics of hot tennis chicks.
 
2006-04-12 11:41:31 PM  
Sounds like a good idea. Make all teams unisex and the best players get spots on the team. I'm guessing a majority of all participants would be male. Right, but that wouldn't be equality, would it?
 
2006-04-12 11:51:48 PM  
ok here is how to dodge Title IX

run the sports programs as a separate entity, a corporation mostly invested in by the school. the sports program then funds itself a and the school doesn't put a dime into it, sports scholarships are given by the Sports program company not the university. the company pays for part of the facility construction and maintenance, and the university pays part. in return the sports program gets certain prime time slots to host events and practices while the school uses facilities early and mid day for athletic courses and free student recreation.
 
2006-04-13 12:15:42 AM  
Right-o Bon_Scott. What would be better is if it was a field hockey team. Those skirts are hawt. Also, title IX does indeed blow. We won't see any new men's sports crest the horizon for a looooong time. That mean's that men's internet based hunting will never be a NCAA sanctioned sport, only women's... and who wants to watch women's internet based hunting?

All that I know is that the University of Maryland has one of the most awesomest non-ncaa volleyball programs there is. They put a team together a few years ago and beat a squad of NCAA all-americans at the USAV nationals. They really need to do that more often. Which brings me to the question. Is title IX preventing our best athletes from getting any exposure to our now quieted olympic program?
 
2006-04-13 12:53:06 AM  
As someone who usually supports Title IX (how are women's sports any less viable than all the men's sports that don't pull their own weight? Either we get rid of everything other than football and basketball or we make things even numbers), this is absurd and exactly why the ACLU does as much harm to its own PR as good.
 
2006-04-13 04:59:20 AM  
Lehk, The problem with that idea is I believe it would destroy the amateur status of the athletes therefore they could not compete. Playing for a corporation would be similiar to being a professional. The NCAA has a monopoly on "student" athletes and wants complete access to them to exploit their talent and extract money before they go to a professional league. If your corporate running of the sports program were that simple, don't you think schools would be doing it?
 
2006-04-13 09:57:43 AM  
Here's how I see this playing out in court:
ACLU: Your honor, the university is discriminating against women by eliminating the women's tennis team.
University: We eliminated the men's tennis team, too.
Judge: Case dismissed!

Damian: What's better than a university with a great academic program? A university with a great academic program and a strong athletic program that offers an opportunity for entertainment and campus pride in between studies.

Ah, I love the smell of optimism in the Spring!

I was part of the Chancellor's Student Advisory Board at the University of Maryland during the time of Lefty Drissel and Len Bias, and let me tell you: the universities with strong athletic programs tend to run roughshod over the rest of the school without an equally strong, ballsy administration to keep overzealous boosters and sports directors in check. Those types of universities are few and far between.

UDel_Kitty: let me just say that Title IX needs some revisement.

Not to beat a dead horse, but "revisement"?!? Hold onto that diploma in ENGLISH from Blue Hen country, kiddo. It might be worth something some day.

/former Blue Hen student
//failed out of rocket science - a.k.a. Honors Aerospace Engineering
///how's the habitrail these days?
 
2006-04-13 12:03:56 PM  
2wolves:

Drop football and baseball to save even more money. You could get rid of the sadium and put in, oh I don't know, classrooms?

Uh dude...Football is the money horse at pretty much every major college that has a mediocre football team or better.

Damn near all of them make huge profits and it's mostly used to fund all those other sports that don't make enough money themselves to stay afloat.
 
2006-04-13 11:56:04 PM  
2wolves: Drop football and baseball to save even more money. You could get rid of the sadium and put in, oh I don't know, classrooms?

I just thought I'd point out how asinine your statement was once again, since everyone else in the thread did already.
 
2006-04-14 03:33:17 AM  
You can't fix stupid. Let these girls take their case to court and let them be told how it is by a fair and just judge. Maybe, just maybe, then they'll learn. But I doubt it. After all, you can't fix stupid.

/So sayeth the Wise Pharaoh Fluffy of the Cacti
//Is a Ron White fan
 
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