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(JPost)   FIFA: Israeli air strike in an empty soccer stadium is wrong. Palestinians firing rockets at populated Israeli soccer fields are okay   (jpost.com) divider line 59
    More: Asinine  
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1054 clicks; posted to Sports » on 07 Apr 2006 at 9:56 AM (8 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2006-04-07 08:36:38 AM
Sports page?

Anyway, what a stupid statement
 
2006-04-07 09:01:47 AM
The IDF has acknowledged that the stadium was specifically targeted to "send a strong message to the Palestinian people against terrorism."


Couldn't they have written a note and sent that message instead? Revenge attacks for revenge attacks usually only lead to revenge attacks.
 
2006-04-07 09:03:59 AM
binnster: Couldn't they have written a note and sent that message instead? Revenge attacks for revenge attacks usually only lead to revenge attacks.

"Dear Hamas,

I write to you today to tell you about my bruised feelings. When you try to kill our children, I feel really bad inside. I want to cry. Could you stop, pretty please?

Love, Israel"
 
2006-04-07 09:04:00 AM
*shrug* if you don't start nothin there won't be nothin.
 
2006-04-07 09:06:02 AM
Cardassians and Berjorans at it again.
 
2006-04-07 09:06:20 AM
Both of you children.... STOP IT

/... or I'll turn this car around.
 
2006-04-07 09:13:05 AM
Why don't they just settle it with a ballroom dancing contest?
 
2006-04-07 09:23:34 AM
Tatsuma
Sports page.

Looks like this wont attract the crowd you are looking for. Try another one.

Theres a redlight news article on how Israel sold China another piece of military hardware - Patriot missile system. Try that one. That could be a provocative thread.
 
2006-04-07 09:25:15 AM
BTW, youre getting tons of green-lighted Israel threads. I remember when you had less submissions than me. Wasnt too long ago.
 
2006-04-07 09:31:14 AM
How do you have the energy for this? Coffee just isnt that strong. You argue these all the time and the threads run from you dominating to you getting seriously smacked around and you just still keep going.

What are you on? Let's sell it and make a mint.
 
2006-04-07 09:58:40 AM
This world would be a better place if Jews and Arabs learned to get along with each other and everyone else.
 
2006-04-07 10:02:50 AM
Party Boy: How do you have the energy for this? Coffee just isnt that strong. You argue these all the time and the threads run from you dominating to you getting seriously smacked around and you just still keep going.

What are you on? Let's sell it and make a mint.


My fuel is a mix of distilled rage from anti-semites and pesach leftover blood from christian babies, with a zest of honey

Also, I'll disagree with "getting seriously smacked around", unless you mean verbally abused.

I rarely if ever get "seriously smacked around" because I try to stick on topics I'm pretty certain I can't get cornered and slaughtered.

Yeah, I do get lots of threads greenlighted, I'd wager my average since march is about 1 in 4, which is not bad.

I have to go but I'll check the patriot missile system thing later
 
2006-04-07 10:05:40 AM
"Dear Hamas,

I write to you today to tell you about my bruised feelings. When you try to kill our children, I feel really bad inside. I want to cry. Could you stop, pretty please?

Love, Israel"



"Dear Hamas,

Please accept these missiles as a token of our appreciation for your recent rocket attacks. We expect your incendiary reply promptly.

Love, Israel"
 
2006-04-07 10:08:02 AM
binnster:

Yup, that's pretty much it.

Sadly, the times we tried to stop that cycle, they just kept on attacking.
 
2006-04-07 10:09:33 AM
If Palestinian footie hoodlums are as formidable as their European counterparts, Israel is now doomed.
 
2006-04-07 10:15:58 AM
Tatsuma
My fuel is a mix of distilled rage from anti-semites and pesach leftover blood from christian babies, with a zest of honey

Well, looks like we cant sell anti-semitism..... or can you.

Also, I'll disagree with "getting seriously smacked around", unless you mean verbally abused
Its happened a few times. Id like to jump in on a few occasions but I dont think its fair to hammer you when your running 4 arguments at a time.

Have I seen you get hammered one on one? No. But to be completely fair, some of those arguments are ignored/skipped too. In all honesty, arguing with 3 people is a PITA and you can miss plenty of the thread. You might just be skipping them.

Heres the patriot missile thing
Thread

That thread is really more to your liking.
 
2006-04-07 10:20:23 AM
Eochada
footie
Hey, you a limey?
 
2006-04-07 10:32:51 AM
I heard briefly on the radio about Hamas being ready to recognize Israel as its own state. How close to a peaceful ending are we?
 
2006-04-07 10:45:30 AM
Tatsuma : Sadly, the times we tried to stop that cycle, they just kept on attacking.

Anyone who believes that only one side is to blame for the Palestinian-Israeli violence is a simpleton.
 
2006-04-07 10:46:49 AM
Cant we just let them destroy each other already.
 
2006-04-07 10:52:38 AM
www.cinemaspeak.com

Only one man can save the day
 
2006-04-07 10:54:58 AM
Persepolis: I heard briefly on the radio about Hamas being ready to recognize Israel as its own state. How close to a peaceful ending are we?

Well, let's see. Hamas' best offer to date is, "Give up Gaza and the West Bank now, and we'll honor a 15-year truce during which we won't try to kick you out of the rest of Israel."
 
2006-04-07 10:59:08 AM
J.Garcia'sRightMiddleFinger: Only one man can save the day

jesusoftheweek.com
 
2006-04-07 11:03:42 AM
Party Boy

Hey, you a limey?

Not in the least!
 
2006-04-07 11:05:01 AM
Unfortunately, I am reluctantly coming to the conclusion that these two parties need to continue their cycle of violence until they fianlly tire of it.

/when will that be, O Lord?
 
2006-04-07 11:16:44 AM
cryptozoophiliac: Unfortunately, I am reluctantly coming to the conclusion that these two parties need to continue their cycle of violence until they fianlly tire of it.

/when will that be, O Lord?



When the Palestinians get one of these:


wlajw.caloucaera.net
 
2006-04-07 11:30:11 AM
Why is FIFA getting involved? Sepp Blatter is too busy trying to think of ways to screw up the game to be getting involved in geo-politics.

/Frank Lampard will score two in the final and England will lift the Cup.
 
2006-04-07 11:30:22 AM
@Persepolis

There aren't any Gandhi's on the Israeli side either. Both sides need a good swift kick in the ass.


As for Israel firing missles at a Palestinian soccer field, I suspect FIFA is going to ban Israel and Israeli teams from International competitions.
 
2006-04-07 12:00:08 PM
devioustrevor
The Gandhi topic is bizarre to me. The debate here on fark is so much more polarized than what the literature reflects; which is a more candid discussion of the rights and wrongs of both sides. From what I've read so far, I believe the Israeli side is more open to self criticism in this sense. Even with this information available and presented on these threads, its strange to me that Gandhi is invoked. Why?

Invoking Gandhi in this case implies one side is an aggressor and the other is passive; If the aggressive side (Palestinian in this case) would just cease, then hostility would stop.

Much of the literature presented on the many threads on Fark declare errors and aggressive actions on both sides. Now, depending on what side is running this thread, I might anticipate discussion to prove the point that one side is clearly passive. However, dont ignore the previous threads that state how this isnt a simple discussion of aggressor/victim. I believe, Invoking Gandhi perpetuates this meme. Moreover, it perpetuates a unrealistic polarization of this debate into a simple moral case while ignoring the multi-faceted nature of this argument.
 
2006-04-07 12:26:19 PM
I fail to see what a passive Indian racist would contribute to the discussion.
 
2006-04-07 12:49:57 PM
Party Boy

At any rate, wouldn't you say either side adopting and sticking to a non-violence ideology, overtime they can work out their differences politically?

As long as people are being blown up in response of other people being blown up, things can never work out diplomatically.

That's all I was saying when I brought up Gandhi. It's true this whole conflict is multi-faceted, as you say. It just seems to me the soulution doesn't have to be as equally compounded.
 
2006-04-07 01:09:28 PM
Persepolis
As long as people are being blown up in response of other people being blown up, things can never work out diplomatically.

Well, you do have the Starship Troopers method of violence of solving problems too.
 
2006-04-07 01:10:51 PM
This should have been posted before the first. No idea why that happened

Persepolis
As long as people are being blown up in response of other people being blown up, things can never work out diplomatically.
True, True.

In addition,
Violence isnt just about bombs and missles. Both sides have grievances not just related to violence.
 
2006-04-07 01:11:26 PM
Party Boy

??? I didn't understand your last post.

Too many ofs, perhaps. What do you mean Starship Troopers method... Keep in mind I havent seen the movie.
 
2006-04-07 01:13:35 PM
Persepolis
It just seems to me the soulution doesn't have to be as equally compounded.

No, the solution doesnt have to be equally compounded at all. You are 100% correct. What we need to do is not try to do what i mention in my 2006-04-07 12:00:08 PM post
 
2006-04-07 01:14:06 PM
I still don't get the starship troopers reference, but I see what you're saying now. I think we're agreeing. Just want to point out something:

Both sides have grievances not just related to violence.

Which is absolutely true. But in my opinion, these non-violent grievances cannot be resolved without the absence of violence.

That's the first and most important step to fixing things. But as most things with the middle east, easier said than done.

It all goes back to the reason why I posted Gandhi. Though I see what you're saying about it being a very simplistic view.
 
2006-04-07 01:14:27 PM
Persepolis
I cant type worth a damn when I eat lunch. Ill retype the posts with two hands. sec.
 
2006-04-07 01:17:13 PM
Nah, I dont need to retype anything.

As usual, two posters agree on most issues and could possible argue some nuanced position all day. In this case you state that this issue cannot be resolved without an absense of violence.

Well, that sounds good.

Im stating this is a simplistic viewpoint.

You think that sounds good.

lets get a beer after work.
 
2006-04-07 01:20:38 PM
Huzzah!

I'd even go a step further and say in addition to being simplistic, it's unrealistic in todays world.

What would you suggest the solution be?

I know thats a pretty tough question that possibly doesn't even have an answer, but .. I asked it anyway. So there.

/smoke break, back in 5
 
2006-04-07 01:44:23 PM
Persepolis
Damn right its hard, but my opinion shouldn't be a suprise at all. I'm irritated at the inability of clear communication on the subject.

Lets open this statement up that I believe objectivity in political dialogue is a myth. Both sides (I even believe its simplistic to say only 2 sides) will employ propaganda, or "messages presentation directly aimed at influencing the opinions of people, rather than impartially providing information." Many people are intimately engaged in this debate and will not, even within themselves, try to look at the situation objectively. Sources that buttress their worldview are passed as credible and others dismissed as propaganda, when, in reality, this criticism can be leveled to many "credible" sources.

With this seemingly difficult problem of bias, subjectivity, it is amazing we can come towards any revelation of a more complete picture of the event. This is most easily facilitated if there can be an open dialogue that employs, as a strict standard, no use of rhetorical and logical fallacy. Open discourse without the use of rhetorical or logical fallacy is the first step.
 
2006-04-07 01:45:40 PM
be back in an hour. Gotta teach
 
2006-04-07 02:45:55 PM

Jerome Champagne, a representative of FIFA's president for special affairs, this week sent an official letter to Israeli Ambassador to Switzerland Aviv Shiron, asking him to explain why the stadium was targeted before FIFA decided what action, if any, to take.

-Sir, missiles landed here, here and here this morning. Shall I prepare the artillery for a counterattack?
-Are you insane, soldier? Get me FIFA on the line, we can't do this by ourselves.


This article simply screams "What the hell do you have to do with ANYTHING?".
 
2006-04-07 04:49:24 PM
You know what really deserves the ASININE label? This statement from the FIFA representative:

"Hitting a football stadium is absolutely counterproductive for peace, because today football is the only universal tool that can bridge gaps."

Get over yourself, biatch.
 
2006-04-07 06:39:30 PM
www.footballnetwork.org

www.caliach.com

Football Bridging Gaps
 
2006-04-07 08:14:53 PM
>FIFA: Israeli air strike in an empty soccer stadium is wrong. Palestinians firing rockets at populated Israeli soccer fields are okay

Bob gets mad when I punch other person. Ergo, Bob doesn't mind when other person punches me.

It just doesn't work as an argument, all opinions about whos on the 'right' side, aside.
 
2006-04-07 08:29:25 PM
Party Boy: Open discourse without the use of rhetorical or logical fallacy is the first step.

Watch the first step, it's a doozy.

As you said, each side is set on their own agenda and they are both seemingly unwilling to give up an inch to help move the process of peace along.

So, now that we have determined the best way for any talks to occur, how do you suggest they get to that first step?

I realize it's getting late. And It's friday night, So I'm not going to be here the whole time.

But, if you post a response, I will definately read it by saturday.
 
2006-04-07 08:46:18 PM
so FIFA wishes UFIA upon Israel is the upshot here?

/dnrtfa
 
2006-04-08 03:50:56 AM
Persepolis
Huzzah!

I'd even go a step further and say in addition to being simplistic, it's unrealistic in todays world.


Same argument people always use against passive resistence.

/at least some people are listening
//hope a few palestinians read fark
///evidently lots of israelis do...
 
2006-04-08 03:52:19 AM
Oh of all the things to typo.
 
2006-04-08 10:32:52 AM
So, now that we have determined the best way for any talks to occur, how do you suggest they get to that first step?

Im not really sure where you are going here. Can you restate?


I'm off to read Dershowitz' rebuttal to the Walt and Mearshimer paper that looks at pro-Israeli lobbies and their influence on US foreign policy.

Slander, so far, is the main detraction of this article. It's really too bad. Although this paper has generated a considerable amount of debate in the International mediam there's an absense of discussion of this article in the US mainstream media. This is strange because this article calls for a healthy discussion of the US foreign policy vis-a-vis pro-Israeli lobbies in the US.

See a good summary with links of the cons and pros of this article here. I'm off to read these new articles praising the work and the new rebuttals now.
 
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