How long will it take before the Religious Right turns this into a Canadian endorsement of ID??

You really think the religious right knows where canada is?

True.

Holy crap. That's insane. Also, you can barely tell who was saying what, that article was so packed with unattributed quotes from suddenly varying sources.

To be fair, saying that the proposal was rejected because he failed to prove evolution as a scientific fact is a bit of the stretch. As TFA says, there were a variety of reasons why it was rejected.

I don't think it should have been rejected, but still, this isnt the 'end of the world' sign that it may be made out to be.

Science is never 100% correct by nature, it's an ongoing process of getting better and better models and data. Nobody can ever really prove anything beyond doubt.

The very idea that a concept with known and minor imperfections is wrong because we should know the whole truth without failure is religiously biased thought in itself. Nowhere outside of dogma is blind and ultimate truth accepted as a credible option.

EzraS: To be fair, saying that the proposal was rejected because he failed to prove evolution as a scientific fact is a bit of the stretch. As TFA says, there were a variety of reasons why it was rejected.

ftfa: In its decision to deny the grant, the SSHRC panel said Alters had not supplied "adequate justification for the assumption in the proposal that the theory of evolution, and not intelligent design theory, was correct."

/look, flamewar voting! have fun

no mention of the Evolution trifecta in the headline?

it's just mcgill politics people! the board is playing hardball because of the way the mcgill senate has been taking grants for granted. don't flip out about it.

/mcgill sci grad

I don'tsee why he needs money for the study. He's getting a demonstration for free.

How about creationists just stop using all of the drugs and medical procedures that arose as a result of the theory of evolution and use the ones that came from ID instead. The problem will take care of itself.

/a vote for me is a vote for culling

Fark McGill. Montreal deserves much better than this enclave of wannabe aristocracy.

Ah ha! The conservatives get into power, and science starts to fall out of favor! Conclusive proof that Canada really is America Lite!

>>>>>>>>>>>>>
He's quite right. ID is a deliberate and cynical political ideology that needs to be tackled.

Part of the tactics of this small sect is to portray science as some sort of elaborate conspiracy theory to undermine the man in the sky. Then get all the normal folks brainwashed and away we go back to the middle ages.

Different story when they are lying in hospital waiting for a CAT scan tho.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Before I bother caring about this someone is going to need to give me conclusive evidence that Canada exists.

"I just want to underline that it is not correct to suggest that the funding proposal was not accepted because the council or the committee had doubts about evolution" - Eva Schacherl, SSHRC Canada.com

But please don't let this triviality douse the flamewar.

Megain

ftfa as well: Halliwell said confidentiality obligations made it difficult for her to discuss Alters's case in detail, but she argued that the professor had taken one line in the letter "out of context" and the rejection of his application should not indicate that SSHRC was expressing "doubts about the theory of evolution."

Yes, I did read the article. I'm just saying that its far more likely that they rejected this proposal due the fact that its such a hot issue than due to any percieved fault in evolution.

/voting as well. Why? Because its so fun!

MRSPIM you are spot on: I got the general gist but couldn't work out exactly who said what. Terrible, and not unrelated.

"Holy crap. That's insane. Also, you can barely tell who was saying what, that article was so packed with unattributed quotes from suddenly varying sources."

"How about creationists just stop using all of the drugs and medical procedures that arose as a result of the theory of evolution and use the ones that came from ID instead. The problem will take care of itself."

Are you trying to suggest we wouldn't have things such as penicillin and heart transplants if it weren't for the theory of evolution?

What kind of "University" has a vice-principal?

/Tee-hee!

While I agree that simply assuming that evolution is absolute truth is not good science, it is nonetheless a well-established suite of theories, and I think it's pretty ridiculous to expect it to be "proven" in every single evolutionary biology grant proposal like this implies. It is definitely ridiculous to insist that anyone demonstrate that evolution is better science than Intelligent Design. :(

/Honestly, they don't ask aerospace engineers to prove gravitation or Bernoulli's every time they want to build a wind tunnel

Wow, up until university I attended catholic schools, and NOBODY suggested evolution was incorrect. Hell, even the religion teachers, one of them being a priest, all stressed that the bible was not to be taken literally. I was happy to get away from it after high school anyways, but I've never actually even met a person who seriously sides with creationism/intelligent design.

Religious people are idiots. I don't understand why we let them have positions of authority. They certainly are messing up the fabric of society.

And the award for stupidest comment goes to 3rdLostPassword!

Not only was the comment only vaguely on topic, it was also inflammatory and completely disregarded the text of the article!

A clash between McGill University and the key federal agency that funds social science research in the country is sparking a scholarly debate in Canada about the theory of evolution.

Let's see the fallout before we rename Canada to Little USA.

We have the advantage here that we can express options without being labeled Un-Canadian ... I suspect that these people are going to get an earfull.

Then again, I also believe that the statement "People are stupid" to be an axiom. So maybe "Unintelligent Design" may get a foothold here.

Der_Huhn_Teufel

Are you trying to suggest we wouldn't have things such as penicillin and heart transplants if it weren't for the theory of evolution?

I dont think he was, but its still right anyways. If it wasn't for evolution, neither our hearts nor penicillin would exist!

3rdLostPassword

Awww. Did you go to the Carleton of Quebec?

Dorf11: "I just want to underline that it is not correct to suggest that the funding proposal was not accepted because the council or the committee had doubts about evolution" - Eva Schacherl, SSHRC Canada.com

So, wait... we're just supposed to take her word for it, despite what all the other folks involved are saying? Yeah, fantastic!

"I just want to underline that it is not correct to suggest that the USA PATRIOT Act was proposed, passed or extended because the Senate or House wanted to extend the powers of Federal law enforcement well beyond the bounds of what is allowable by the Constitution."
"I just want to underline that it is not correct to suggest that the Kentucky Board of Education is adopting new educational standards mandating the teaching of creationism alongside evolutionary science because of any religious agenda, but rather in the interests of scientific fairness."

Saying it in a press release doesn't make it true.

"Are you trying to suggest we wouldn't have things such as penicillin and heart transplants if it weren't for the theory of evolution?"

I'd imagine he's more concerned about the attack on the underlying scientific method that ID represents than Darwinism specifically. I know I am.

The good thing about ID spreading is it'll reduce the negative impact this nonsense will have on US competitiveness.

Dumbs down the playing field.

Contact Us

Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council
350 Albert Street
P.O. Box 1610
Ottawa, ON K1P 6G4
Canada
Phone: (613) 992-0691
Fax: (613) 992-1787

Help for Online Applications
Phone: (613) 995-4273
E-mail: w­ebgra­n­tc­r­hssc­a

Initiative on the New Economy
Phone: (613) 996-2802
E-mail: i­necr­h­ss­ca

Fellowships and Institutional Grants
Phone: (613) 943-7777
CGS Master's Program
E-mail: cgs­crh­ssca
Post-doctoral/Doctoral Fellowships
E-mail: fello­wshipscrhssca

Media
Phone: (613) 992-7302
Fax: (613) 992-2803
E-mail: sus­a­ngo­o­dyea­rc­r­h­s­sca

EzraS

You're just bitter 'cause you're stuck in Saskatchewan... and especially Saskatoon.

But I supose at least it's not Regina.

EzraS: Yes, I did read the article. I'm just saying that its far more likely that they rejected this proposal due the fact that its such a hot issue than due to any percieved fault in evolution.

that's the problem

vandenberg

Even better: UPEI.

Yes, it is funny and sad at the same time.

Another atheist looking to soak the Canadian taxpayer.

What evidence have you that the professor in question is an atheist? Please be specific. I saw no such indication in the article.

WHO THE HELL WRITES THIs CRAP!?

Seriously. They aren't looking to prove that "Darwin" was right. "Darwinism" is a misnomer, for serious.

ARgh, I'm going crazy.

I think maybe that the board saw it as a stupid thing to give a grant to... believing fully in the thoery of Evolution andnot in our imaginary friends ability to clap his hands and poof.

3rdLostPassword

I hear PEI is nice this time of year...

I go to McGill, and while there are a large number of 'high and mighty' people, I'm happy enough just living here.

It's WAY better than Toronto.

Halliwell added there are phenomena that "may not be easily explained by current theories of evolution" and that the scientific world's understanding of life "is not static. There's an evolution in the theory of evolution."

Halliwell, Janet E.
President's Office
Executive Vice-President
ja­net­hal­liwel­lc­r­hss­ca
(613) 947-5265

PhysicsJunky ...or anyone.

Science is never 100% correct by nature, it's an ongoing process of getting better and better models and data. Nobody can ever really prove anything beyond doubt.


I was in a discussion where this came up, and because I couldn't think of the philosophical terms, I didn't come out lookin' so great. What should I read up on for more on this part? (Not so much the "why we can't rely on having 100% accuracy in life", the systemic reasons for why science can't be 100%) ?

Danke.

Is it just me, or is the world slipping into a new Dark Age?

/thank you America

Well, the professor sucks then. There's more than enough proof before your very eyes.

Just look at the bird flu discussion from a couple days ago. There's evolution before your very eyes.

emjaymj: Wow, up until university I attended catholic schools, and NOBODY suggested evolution was incorrect. Hell, even the religion teachers, one of them being a priest, all stressed that the bible was not to be taken literally. I was happy to get away from it after high school anyways, but I've never actually even met a person who seriously sides with creationism/intelligent design.


Go south... or md west...

Oh shiat man, its bevets. Now we got us a real evolution thread. Im glad he's looking out for the Canadian taxpayer, though.

3rdLostPassword

Actually, I'm going to McGill next year assuming I don't fail all my finals. Not that I'm unhappy with Saskatchewan or with Saskatoon, I love living here. It's just that we don't have a good humanities-oriented university.

EzraS

For your undergrad? Or grad school...