All i got to say is that i have my GET OUT OF HELL FREE CARD handy cause i know i'm going to hell.

Insert "this one time, at church camp" story here.

If you go to church you are better than everyone else. Especially black people, even of they go to church because they probably watch rap videos. My eyes hurt from looking down my nose at all of you.

Yeah, and people who floss regularly live longer too.

At four hours per week in church for some 80 odd years you are spending 2 years of your life in church! This is equal to the time 'gained'.

Well, the same arguments could be made about exercise. I think that people who go to church may enjoy it.

correlation != causation

Yawn. You can never do an experimental study of the long-term benefits of social support. This isn't a correlational study, though. It is a quasi-experiment for all practical purposes. It still doesn't show cause, but it adds further support to other research that demonstrates benefits in social support.

But correlation can equal causation. People spout something they learning in error during intro psychology or something. Statistical control can remove lots of doubt, but you can actually use correlational analyses in an experimental design and SHOW CAUSE. Those tests that people report in experimental studies? THEY ARE BASED ON CORRELATIONAL ANALYSES.

What we need now is ChurchLady doing the Superiority Dance.

We live longer because church girls are wilder in bed.

All that sexual repression leads to a pretty good workout.

Attending church has social benefits for some people. It can lower stress levels because study after study has shown major benefits in social support. Some people just get their support from church.

Benefits to society include, the raping of little boys, mass religious financial fraud (gotta love tv evangalists), genocide and the increased spread of aids.

Yeah, some people being sheep.

2006-04-04 09:30:21 AM Action Replay Nick
I'm in an odd mood today. I can't help but chuckle, thinking of Jesus going "Hocus Pocus, ALLAKAZAM!" with his magic wand turning water into wine.

whatever, give me a couple hours and i can turn wine back into water

:)

Shadowen


Doesn't this seem to contradict a recent study that found that prayer did nothing for your health, and could in fact make it worse if you knew other people were praying for you?

Gee, I wonder why they released this study now...

No, one is personal attendance at church, the other is lying in a hospital dying while people pray for you. Completely different situations/experiments.

"The beneficial health effects of religion only work when you personally engage in it, but more study is needed" would be a valid interpretation of the data.

This does not seem "unlikely" to me in the least. If you are a regular church goer and you have a relationship with God, it just makes sense that you would live a healthier lifestyle, eschewing the dangers of living a hedonistic one. In addition, should you fall ill, the power of prayer during healing is amazing.

Shadowen


Doesn't this seem to contradict a recent study that found that prayer did nothing for your health, and could in fact make it worse if you knew other people were praying for you?

Gee, I wonder why they released this study now...

No it doesn't contradict it. If you're sick and people pray for you without you knowing, there's no physical reason for you to feel better. Maybe if you knew about it it would help a bit (by making you loved and turning on some sort of placebo effect).

Going to church throughout your life probably does help for the reasons the article sited. It didn't say that going when you're sick would make you better (I have a feeling the church would frown on someone doing that, if they're contagious).

How bout a pic of the fat lady from trading spouses (I think that is the name of it) spouting off.

Benefits to society include, the raping of little boys, mass religious financial fraud (gotta love tv evangalists), genocide and the increased spread of aids.

Yeah, some people being sheep.

Um, ok. But once again: the benefit to some people is increased social support which may explain the results of the study.

I don't have any desire to have a "religion is bad" discussion. My views on religion are probably pretty similar to your own. But from a scientific standpoint, what you said is irrelevant to the scientific merit of these findings. Plus, they made love to those little boys.

Church goer do not live longer!
It just SEEMS longer.

/bad-dum dum

That's like the study that said people who fold their toilet paper neatly before they wipe their ass live longer than people who just ball it up.

It's not the folding, or in this case the church going, that is really the key operative; it's the fear of risk/anal retentive life style that leads to it...

mindbuzz
More more subtle than normal today, I see.

Come out Virginia, don't let me me wait
Happy hour starts at eight
But sooner or later it comes down to fate
I might as well be the one
They showed you a beer and told you to drink
Long Island's got everything but the kitchen sink
But they never told you that booze makes you think
For things that you might have done...
Only the good die young

You might have heard I'm a dangerous guy
I'm here to tell you that it's all a lie
Hold the steering wheel while I drink this rye
cuz' I never hurt no one
Come on Virginia show me a stop sign
Switch off my turn signal I'll throw you the line
The faulty seat belt you're hiding behind
Never has helped no one
And only the good die young

When people go to church regularly, they are giving themselves regular times to sit, relax, reflect, meditate and generally chill out. Maybe if the study compared life span of people who go to church with people who don't go to church but regularly practice meditation, there wouldn't be such a surprising difference.

Repeat after me: Correlation does not prove causation.

well, she looks healthy.

(i had to do it)

Church goers devote time to denying that they exist in a chaotic and brutal universe that offers no guarantees that they have an eternal essence or that there is some benevolent force making sure good people get to live on. This helps towards building a false sense of security. When the brain is not taxed with dealing with difficult questions about mortality and the randomness of the universe, it finds itself in a more ordered state and less sress hormones are released into the blood. Stress hormones inhibit the destruction of free radicals and free radicals are the prime catalyst of the aging process. Less stress, less disease, longer life.

There is a downside to being a non-deluded Agnostic or Atheist.

HAW HAW HAW HAW!!!

I guess I should have said, "in Russia during the Soviet era," 'cause part of my other post got filtered.

2006-04-04 01:01:31 PM tonesskin

I totally got what you were saying, but couldn't help but cringe at the sight of 'benficial for society' and 'churchgoers' in the same sentence.

From a scientific standpoint it just shows that like a placebo (in all depths of the word), religion can help the ignorant (that was meant in an unknowing way and not as an attack on believers of the almighty grey bearded skybuddy) to trick their minds into doing what it could all along, do a lot more than they think.

And if they had loved those boys, they would have at least used lube.

Mindbuzz: the power of prayer during healing is amazing.

Amazing in that so many people believe it works. Works about as well as crossing your fingers or tossing a penny in a fountain.

/Wasting my time in a bar is better than wasting my time in church

It's better to burn out than fade away.

Religious types believe in hell so they cling to life longer. It all makes sense.

LEADER OF THE FREE WORLD...SHHH
How bout a pic of the fat lady from trading spouses (I think that is the name of it) spouting off?

You'll see a little bit more "shrewd marketer" and less "Jesus freak" Here (pops)

But, hey, isn't that the way... really?

PLEASE NOTE: MUSLIM SUICIDE BOMBERS WERE EXCLUDED FROM THE FINDINGS.

Robokev

Leave it to an Atheist to tell a Believer that prayer doesn't make them feel better.

I suppose, if by anal retentive you mean getting wasted or having sex with anything that moves, then I am anal retentive. On the other hand, I love a good drink once in a while (I just don't get drunk - never did see the point in it), a good laugh, and a good celebration of Steak and BJ day with my husband. And yes, I'm churchgoing. I'd have to agree with those who say that the social situation for most churchgoers is a calming, nurturing one. At least, it always was for me, and that reduction in stress can be quite healthy. I'd be willing to bet that if the same study were done on most other religions in the world and perhaps even a weekly gathering of agnostics in a calm and pleasant situation the results would be quite similar.

There is something therapeutic about not getting drunk, stoned or wasted everyday... no buttsecks... focusing on the positive...

Sounds good to me.

Repeat after me: Correlation does not prove causation.

Wrong. Correlational research designs cannot prove causation, but they can come close when well designed. Correlational analyses can prove it.

CheeseEatingBulldog

If I said benefit to society, which I don't recall doing, then I mean a benefit to believers.

From a scientific standpoint it just shows that like a placebo (in all depths of the word), religion can help the ignorant (that was meant in an unknowing way and not as an attack on believers of the almighty grey bearded skybuddy) to trick their minds into doing what it could all along, do a lot more than they think.

Actually, no, this study doesn't even remotely represent a placebo effect. At all. Period. Prayer studies can/do. This does not.

This study demonstrates an effect of church-going, which is a social activity. There is no "belief" that would lead to a placebo. Instead there is the element of social support, mental relaxation, quiet, etc. I go with the social support stuff, though. More social support leads to less stress. This is not a placebo effect.

A placebo effect is a belief that something is helping. This study didn't empirically test a belief in anything. In fact, it never even estimated WHAT churchgoers believe.

How long does one really need to live anyway?
So you are an old ass person for a few more years.
BFD
Besides plenty of church goers are out having fun. Mostly killing hookers; but to each his own.

mental_rose
I suppose, if by anal retentive you mean getting wasted or having sex with anything that moves, then I am anal retentive.

You get wasted and have anal with anything that moves?

Ol' Doc Washburn: Why have there been so many "studies" about religion and prayer lately? It's a waste of time and money.

Didn't ya know Religion is the new science in the gubments eyes

meshman Based on the study, regular exercise is more beneficial and cheaper. Therefore, people should be staying home and doing physical activities rather than going to boring old church.

The New Catholicism!
- Genuflecting calisthenics!
- Sauna confessionals!
- Low carb/High protein host!
- Thereputic epsom salt Baptismals!
- Incense aromatherapy!

Good for the body AND soul!
=Smidge=

Boy, what a pulled-out-of-our-grant-funded-asses piece of crap story.

//"Therefore, this rock must keep cougars away."

Mindbuzz
Feeling better because you think god is gonna help you get over the illness he gave you isn't really in the "amazing" category. More like the "delusional" category.

/Illness is caused by eve eating an apple, or is it caused by thetans? Getting my mythologies mixed up.

Boy, what a pulled-out-of-our-grant-funded-asses piece of crap story.

So you don't believe that social support can benefit people?

Robokev
Feeling better because you think god is gonna help you get over the illness he gave you isn't really in the "amazing" category. More like the "delusional" category.

A placebo effect is delusional? Since when?

mindbuzz: Leave it to an Atheist to tell a Believer that prayer doesn't make them feel better.

It works, just like a sugar pill works.

ThatDevGuy

I was raised Southern Baptist, and I went to church at least 5 times a week.

Sunday Morning Service
Sunday Night Service
Tuesday Night Choir Practice
Wednesday Night Prayer Meeting
Thursday Night Visitation (that's where we drive to your house if you were stupid enough to fill out a "visitor" form)
Friday or Saturday - some kind of youth group event

I can't imagine it added to my life span. It just proved to me that God doesn't answer prayer because I frequently prayed that I was accidentally switched at birth and I really belonged to parents who wanted me to have a life worth living.

Oh so glad those days are good and gone.

Sounds to me that eating right, exercising and engaging in positive social behaviors prolong life. Who'da thunk it?

/was a study to prove sh.t we already know necessary?
//oh wait, it's fark, gotta have the mando-god flame war
///ninja gaiden jump n slash!

tonesskin

I've been enjoying (and agreeing) with your posts throughout the thread. Are you an economist?

Robokev & mistergecko

Don't you guys ever get tired of trying to convince people that a very Poweful and Positive influence on their lives is damaging to them?

mental_rose: I suppose, if by anal retentive you mean getting wasted or having sex with anything that moves, then I am anal retentive.

I guess that makes two of us

anal brazil men

I've been enjoying (and agreeing) with your posts throughout the thread. Are you an economist?

Behavioral scientist (sort of)...but we do some behavioral economics at times. Thanks. I just think that people shouldn't let their personal beliefs be involved in science. I'm not a religious person, but if a well-designed study shows a certain effect, then it shows the effect. Attack the study on its scientific merits and use parsimony for a good explanation. Don't attack it because it goes against your personal beliefs.

Replace "churchgoers" with "people who engage in lots of social activities without drinking, smoking, etc." and no one would even question the study.

Pale_Green_Pants_With_Nobody_Inside_Them [TotalFark]:

This is the main reason I think the Baptists and other puritan sects are full of shiat. Long live the Catholics.

Hey, we Episcopals use the real stuff too - not some sissy grape juice and whatnot.