You would think that with all that spending (corporate handouts) the economy would be better then it is...

Ahh when lawyers and corporate shills rule the earth...

OMG!!1!

Numbers on a screen!1!!

EVERYBODY PANIC AND START POUNDING ON YOUR KEYBOARDS!!1!1



"We got numbas on a muthafarkin screen!!1!"

J2000ca

The graph is not wrong. You're only counting the public debt.

I want a pay increase. Doubt the average US citizen even realizes where 90% of the money is going [sure some industrious Farker will enlighten them]. We need to start charging for our military assistance & food aid. We have all the food, you can live without oil but you can't live without food. Buzzy.

Cool, now the advocacy group who put up the original clock up can waste more money by upgrading it. The circle of life is complete.

Oh that whacky Republican Conservative majority...

Reagaaaan, Reaganomics, Bigger debt each yeeeeear

the thang they don't understand is the wingers don't care about debt. it is not their money, they don't want to be part of it, they just want to be free to douche as many people as possible. it's the winger way. that's why they're named after a crappy, crappy hair metal band.

ladyway905: My friend and I have a theory.... Maybe they believe the END is coming (soon) and that's why they don't give a shiat that they're screwing over our grandchildren... but, the end has been "coming" for 2 thousand years and more, surely it will be a BIT longer...


I keep hearing this repeated "screwing over our grandchildren" and it really doesn't make any sense. They'll be the ones inheriting those treasury bonds and getting the money back their parents invested. The national debt is like loaning yourself money.

Should be right around the time Shrub gets chimpeached.

Grounds for chimpeachment

/Now I'll just sit back and wait for terminally-credulous Bush supporters to claim this is old news.
//I'll be disappointed if they don't.

One thing that has always annoyed my about that clock is the numbers for "Your Share". The large number would only be true if everyone paid the same amount of taxes - which would, presumably, be used to pay the debt off.

Since this is not the case, the real number would be something like a couple of hundred million for someone like Bill Gates, and perhaps $500 for some Joe Schmoe making $10 an hour. Painful for Joe? Perhaps. But it is a far cry from the $89,500 showing on that screen.

We'll just order a new billboard on credit. Problem solved.

It's the American way!

Gee I should have checked the CIA factbook; Canada is at 38.7%.

Still HIGH. If they actually put the numbers against revenues (taxes in) which are 159.6 billion, then the debt : earnings ratio is 300% NOT 38.7%.

Try to get a car loan with those numbers.

Too lazy to figure out the the US debt:tax rev numbers are.

r

The minute you walked in the joint
I could see you were a man of distinction
A real big spender
Good lookin' so refined
Say, wouldn't you like to know what's goin' on in my mind?
So let me get right to the point
I don't pop my cork for every guy i see
hey big spender,
spend a little time with me

FarkinNortherner, RTFA. That was their plan.

mtrac
why don't you drop the ad hominem? insulting bush continually like that really polarizes your viewpoint. why don't you just talk facts, straight up? You (WE, viewpoints in opposition to president bush's) might gain a lot more traction and grounds in doing so - I think appealing to reason works a lot better

Who do we owe this $ to anyways?

/sorry, ain't got it

On another side note, I love the CIA fact book. Check out this little tidbit. For the USA: permanent crops: 0.22% of land.

Think about that, how amazingly productive the farms must be to feed so many people with so little land.

Anyways...back to the fire!

"Oops! My bad."

With what we've spent on Iraq, we could have made a down payment on Mexico. If their people are going to come to the U.S. anyway, we might as well have a place to put them.

/Need more stars on the flag, though.

Yep ... bring back the party of fiscal responsibility.

darkSHAKE: Oh yeah! No one in here is an econimist. The person that wrote that artical isn't an econimist. Liberals keep biatching. Believe what these internet articals tell you becasue you know there true!

Not now, son. The grown-ups are talking.

darkSHAKE
Oh yeah! No one in here is an econimist. The person that wrote that artical isn't an econimist. Liberals keep biatching. Believe what these internet articals tell you becasue you know there true!

COMEDY GOLD

DrToast: The debt to GDP ratio is generally defined as the the National Debt divided by the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) (Wikipedia,Investopedia).

\I was have direct linked to investopedia but fark has a bug in the unfetechable link spider.

DrToast
Oh no, our debt is increasing! If only we had a $13,000,000,000,000 economy that is growing just as fast.

That's our GDP, the output for the ENTIRE country. It's the Federal Government that's in debt, not everyone in the country (though we are all in the same boat). Wouldn't a more accurate comparison be to compare the debt to Federal Tax Revenue?

No matter how you slice it, I don't like being several trillion dollars in debt one damn bit.

"artical"...oh and most fiscal dudes are not "liberal". The term is "fiscal" conservative.

That was a dumb attack post. Here is some light reading for non liberals....

http://www.cato.org/pubs/tbb/tbb-0510-26.pdf

If they had just started the sign as player 2,they would have had the extra digit they needed.

Kanyon: That's our GDP, the output for the ENTIRE country. It's the Federal Government that's in debt, not everyone in the country


That makes no sense. The federal government is completely funded by everyone in the country so everyone in the county owes that debt. They're also the lenders, so they owe it to themselves. It's a non-issue as long as the debt isn't out-running GDP to a point people won't buy new bonds to pay for the ones being cashed in.

"No matter how you slice it, I don't like being several trillion dollars in debt one damn bit."

Right-o.

Yes, sir. Good thing we still have all those Social Security and Medicare payouts to make on behalf of retiring baby boomers. Wouldn't want the national debt to be anything below $10 trillion before that happens.

Major Thomb
I keep hearing this repeated "screwing over our grandchildren" and it really doesn't make any sense. They'll be the ones inheriting those treasury bonds and getting the money back their parents invested. The national debt is like loaning yourself money.

It's like your grandpa getting a hi-fi that has now been in the garbage for decades, and because he never paid for it, you can't borrow money at less than 24% interest.
Quit being a dishonest shill.

Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: I don't like being several trillion dollars in debt one damn bit

Well that's just the thing, YOU aren't.

/and some of the debt is owed TO citizens in the forms of Bonds etc.

Major Thomb has just pointed out the philosphical flaw in government borrowing, especially in a "free" country.

We're told where free, but to borrow the assumption is that the government has rights to the entire GDP of the nation, and therefore can borrow against those numbers, not simply their tax revenue numbers.

It other words, they own your productivity, your income.

We're not free. We're serfs.

That is why I hate the way they calc the numbers.

Hmmm. I wonder if my bank's software uses 32-bit numbers. That would mean that I could charge $4,294,967,297 on my credit card and their computers would tell them that I only owe $1.

/ME rubs hands together gleefully

Dear Jerk: It's like your grandpa getting a hi-fi that has now been in the garbage for decades, and because he never paid for it, you can't borrow money at less than 24% interest.
Quit being a dishonest shill.


The makes zero sense. Explain the 24% interest part.

rob.d: We're told where free, but to borrow the assumption is that the government has rights to the entire GDP of the nation, and therefore can borrow against those numbers, not simply their tax revenue numbers.

It other words, they own your productivity, your income.

Where do you think that tax revenue comes from? Tax your forced to pay and there's no return. Bonds you voluntarily pay as an investment and you get it back later with interest.

Goddamn do-gooder tax and spend liberals are sending this country straight to hell.

Thanks a lot! You owe me a keyboard!

The "tax and spend" liberal" tag became simply hyperbole long ago, The Reagan years. No party in history has done the fiscal damage to our country inflicted by the republicans.

Of course they aren't "tax and spend". They are "borrow and steal".

Our debt ratio would be reasonable if we were actually paying against it.

Manufacturing a wartime economy just so you can raid the treasury and give tax breaks to the richest so they can have their golden shower trickle down on us is not working... it NEVER has and NEVER will.

Major Thomb: Tax your forced to pay and there's no return.

COMEDY GOLD!

/again!

So, to sum it all up.

Kool Aid Fanatics, "Move along, move along, nothing to see here. This is a non-issue. We have everything under control, pay no attention to the incredibly large numbers, they are meaningless out of context. Yes we say one thing and then do the opposite, but only because it is an absolute necessity that we bloat the budget and create vast new highly empowered branches of government and droconian law. You want to be safe don't you? Ok, so shut the hell up and wait for the trickle down."

The Sane Contingency, "Wow, that is an aweful lot of money! An incredible amount. Someone is going to have to take responsibility for that. I feel duped here, anyone else? Yeah, you too?! Man, this has got to stop, but where do we even begin? Does anyone actually think this guy represent America's best interests? No? Not me either."

Major Thomb
That makes no sense. The federal government is completely funded by everyone in the country so everyone in the county owes that debt.

In a broader sense, yes. But it's not like China is going to be calling you up personally for your share when it's time to collect. Though we all share in the debt it is the Federal Government who will actually be cutting the check. I also said we're all in the same boat so I'm not really sure what you're arguing with me about.

It's a non-issue as long as the debt isn't out-running GDP to a point people won't buy new bonds to pay for the ones being cashed in.

I agree we're not in any huge crisis yet but as I said I don't like being this far in debt regardless of the circumstances and I think that's a reasonable point to make. I'm a fiscal conservative so this rubs me the wrong way. Partisan politics aside, it befuddles me that anyone on either side of the aisle would argue that this isn't something to be concerned about. Debt is never good.

clayndwoods
The current Bush administration seems to be the "tax and spend" type, minus the tax.

/and add another spend

This is not George Bush's fault.
You voted for him.

Cache: This is not George Bush's fault.
You voted for him.

I didn't vote for him. Diebold did.

surfnazi
The current Bush administration seems to be the "cut taxes and spend like a drunken sailor" type, that is to say the bad at math type.

/thought I would try to help clarify your point

Major Thomb, the topic is borrowing, not investing. Governments are borrowing against the wealth of the nation (they are making the assumption that they have the right to tax at 100%).

The CDN government today is buying back its bonds with my money and some people are making money. The US government is still printing bonds on our good credit and paying interest to other people out of revenues.

I'm not overly worried right now, since the rule is "owe a bank a thousand dollars and you're in trouble. Owe a bank a million dollars and they're in trouble."

Right now the US debt means everybody is in trouble. There is a small risk that this will end badly for the US. Most likely you'll see rising interest rates in the short term or cutbacks in spending.

CMetzger42: I didn't vote for him. Diebold did

Hey, everyone's got to make a livin'! Especially if you want that big spread out west and a few private jets to get you there. And that island in Greece doesn't just buy itself pal!

01:04:13 PM Major Thomb
The makes zero sense. Explain the 24% interest part.

When our supply of debt overwhelms the demand for our debt, the interest we will have to pay on those notes goes up. And at this point, It's not Americans who are buying the debt, it's the new boogieman, China. The Chinese grandchildren will be receiving those interest payments.
You're not stupid, I know you know this. I'm spelling it out for the kids who've read this far.

2006-03-27 12:55:56 PM Major Thomb

It's a non-issue as long as the debt isn't out-running GDP to a point people won't buy new bonds to pay for the ones being cashed in.

Have you never heard of a Ponzi Scheme (pops)?