weed will never be legal because people will always equate it with cocaine, heroin, and other hard drugs.

there will always be more ignorant people than informed people.

Microbe
I have thought long and hard about it. I am for decriminalization, but STRONGLY opposed to legalization.

What's the basis...?

Cops don't care much what you do in your own house.

That they are legally empowered to care one way or another is bad enough, and ought to frighten any freedom treasuring American out of their wits.

The folks in jail aren't in there for possession, they are in jail because they weren't wealthy enough to hire a good lawyer.

The same can be said for just about any crime, these days. So?

mrexcess: That changes things completely.

Heh, yeah.. funny story:

When I was about 10 years old, and young and innocent, the neighbor girl across the street (who I'd had a huge crush on mind you) asked me if I'd ever smoked 'grass.'

I looked at her quizzically and said: "Where did you get it, like out of your backyard or something?"

/what?

tarrant84: Because crack dealers and Columbia drug lords are better?

You must have been smoking crack when you wrote that. WTF does crack or Columbian drug lords have to do with it? SERIOUSLY!

Do you know how much marijuana in the states comes from Columbia? Probably .0000001 and that was brought by a Columbian musician on vacation.

surfnazi

What exactly is it you are arguing? That drug dealers aren't that bad, so leaving it illegal is fine? Nevermind you can go to PMITA prison for owning a plant.

No, look at my Boobies. I like MJ, and use it occasionally, and realize that there are no real health concerns, but if we legalize it then more people will use OTHER drugs, which is scary.

This argument digressed when tarrant started talking about how legalizing it would protect kids from having to go to shady dealers, but I am saying that I have lived on both coasts and known lots of marijuana dealers, buyers, and users, and I've never been in danger or even SEEN another drug for that matter.

madcat033: No, none of my friends ever grew it. I don't think the drugs were grown locally. But I'm pretty sure they got passed on to someone not so shady pretty early on in the process. Even so, everyone in a large region can get suppled by one MJ dealer, so just that one guy meets the scary drug dealers.

desolationrow responded to your posts very nicely:

desolationrow: You're in a situation where you hang with friends, and your friends sell some weed. That's a good scene to be in, no question. It is not, however, the drug scene. There may be some cool people between the producers, high-level dealers and your group, but those people do all exist. If we aren't all so fortunate to have pals who sell pot, like where I grew up in, we buy from the people available. Don't kid yourself, man, it looks all safe and cool, smoking up with your friends. But you have to keep in mind that the low-level kids are always the first to get busted when the high-end dealers, the real criminals, need a fall guy to get the cops off their back. The drug trade, whether it's pot, coke, heroin or anything else is controlled by criminals. It's not the safe little world that it appears to be.

That's pretty much the issue in a nutshell. Your little world isn't representitive of what's going on. It's kind of like economics... what's happening in your small town doesn't necessarily reflect the entire economy.

DiamondSmasher
It is legal to cross state lines without a passport.

Looking for positive aspects of living in America in 2006, that's the best we can do...?

Gentlemen, I rest my farking case.

detry

heroin cures headaches didnt ya know.

I kinda hate to be the asshole here, but Colombia. Jesus.

worldbeater: Thanks. Yeesh. :\

drunkMSUguy
My point is that not everyone has the time/resources/patience to grow their own weed. And with the opening of the new market, smaller operations would be pushed out by larger ones, and the corporations with the most capital would be the ones most likely to run such an operation.

So in the future, we'll have to choose between iJuana and MS Weed? No contest, man. If anyone knows quality weed, it's Steve Jobs. Plus Fatboy Slim and the Crystal Method would be attacking each other all ninja-vs-pirate-style to win the contract to cut the jingle.

I wanna get iJuana get I wanna get iJuana get...
I wanna get iJuana!
I wanna get iJuana!

Microbe: You must have been smoking crack when you wrote that. WTF does crack or Columbian drug lords have to do with it? SERIOUSLY!

A great deal of weed is smuggled into this country.

Would you rather have the money go to drug dealers and those who smuggle in weed-- or to a company who can sell it for profit?

madcat033:

I looked all over your profile for some boobies, but didn't find any. What gives?

you people are ALL stupid. we don't get to make decisions here in amurika anymore.

wars are profitable.

i have to get a new job.

bombs are fun to take apart, not put together.

bah.

mrexcess: Looking for positive aspects of living in America in 2006, that's the best we can do...?

Then go move to Mexico. I hear it's nice there.

You want to know what's great about America? There's opportunity if you're willing to work hard.

states that have medical marijuana laws allow patients to grow their own weed.

:)
imported weed is becoming very rare in california, no shady elements necessary.

DiamondSmasher: Doesn't it bother you at all that the US Government has no authority to prohibit posession or consumption of a plant? That the only reason they get away with it is because nobody has yet called them on an interpretation of the Commerce Clause that is so far beyond "tortured" that Lyndie England would be offended?

tarrant84

That's pretty much the issue in a nutshell. Your little world isn't representitive of what's going on. It's kind of like economics... what's happening in your small town doesn't necessarily reflect the entire economy.

Well, I have had a lot of experiences on both coasts. And my high school was an AVERAGE SCHOOL. Not rich, not poor, I imagine most are like it. But seriously, I don't really think many kids are in danger from buying weed. You can buy it from so many people.

And anyways, that is part of my initial argument. These kids will turn to HARDER drugs. You think MJ will stay cool if it's legal? They'll turn to other things. Then they'll REALLY have to see scary drug dealers.

mrexcess: hat the only reason they get away with it is because nobody has yet called them on an interpretation of the Commerce Clause that is so far beyond "tortured" that Lyndie England would be offended?

Thank the liberal justices for that.

drunkMSUguy: Yes, because all of the pot growers out there are non-profit...

Hey, I support local artists, local restaurants, and local growers. I enjoy a flourishing local economy based on cooperative craftsmanship and services.

As far as the rest of the pro-legalization crowd, all I have to say is be careful what you ask for. You may just get it.

Then you'll have the purveyors of cancer jumping on the money tree, all kinds of government hoops to jump through, and taxes out the ying yang. You still won't be able to smoke it in public any more than you can already and I truly believe it will actually be harder to get.

Did you know that it is illegal to grow your own tobacco? How many sources of home-grown, high quality, organic tobacco do you know of?

tarrant84
You want to know what's great about America? There's opportunity if you're willing to work hard.

Sounds like you sold your country out long ago. No sir... economic opportunity is not what makes America great, and it never has been.

You sound like a capitalist, not an American.

rhodekyll

I looked all over your profile for some boobies, but didn't find any. What gives?


ACK! Struck down by the filter. Boobies = Boobies or f1|257 P057 if you are teh 1337.

madcat033
I don't know about you, but I smoked weed because I wanted the effects that weed offered, without much or any negative side-effects. That same offering cannot be said for the other category I drugs that "more people will use". This notion that people use weed because its illegal, so if it weren't illegal they'd go on to the next drug level doesn't make sense to me. People use whatever drug they do because they want to. If weed were available at the super market, or you could grow it in my back yard without fear, then no one would EVER have to deal with a drug dealer of any sort, friendly or otherwise. Unless they have poor gardening skills.

the only reason i tried harder drugs was because of the many idiots who told me weed was the same.
once i found out how mellow and non-threatening weed was, i naturally disbelieved everything i was told and tried everything.

let people smoke pot and they'll have no reason to try anything else.

madcat033: You think MJ will stay cool if it's legal? They'll turn to other things.

Because once a person is of legal age to drink alcohol, suddenly they quit drinking... right? Alcohol just isn't very popular or "cool" in America where it's legal, is it?

Meant to say "grow it in your back yard"

/Stay off my lawn

mrexcess

DiamondSmasher
It is legal to cross state lines without a passport.

Looking for positive aspects of living in America in 2006, that's the best we can do...?

Gentlemen, I rest my farking case.

You have no case. You missed the point. Crossing state lines wasn't the positive aspect in itself. I meant that if the place where you were born makes you unhappy, you can go somewhere that suits you better.
If you have given up on the pursuit of happiness in America, you really have a lack of information and positive influences. That is terrible to hear. I've lived in Charlotte, Raleigh, Memphis, Nashville, in the last 10 years. I've been having a great life. It wasn't always great, but you can find happiness. Trust me.
On the other hand, it is easier to read these threads and just agree with people who would rather complain about things they can't change than to do something about your unhappiness.

Hey, I'll say it again.

Be careful what you ask for, you might just get it.

Illegal
Decriminalized
Grow your own or buy local TAX FREE

mrexcess: Sounds like you sold your country out long ago. No sir... economic opportunity is not what makes America great, and it never has been.

Yes, capitalism is what makes America great, the freedom to pursue happiness, a person's own interests. That is what freedom is about.

There's a reason Americans find communism and socialism so appalling.

HAHA!
By the time pot is legalized, smoking will be banned everywhere. You won't be able to get high anyway.

DiamondSmasher
You have no case.

This from the guy who insists that marijuana damages the brain, based on the most reliable of scientific experiments, anecdotal observations! Please sir, do teach me how to build a case as stunning as yours.

For your next trick, how about either posting some scientific evidence that marijuana causes brain damage, or admitting that you just pulled it out of your ass?

tarrant84
mrexcess: hat the only reason they get away with it is because nobody has yet called them on an interpretation of the Commerce Clause that is so far beyond "tortured" that Lyndie England would be offended?

Thank the liberal justices for that.

Don't forget Scalia. He concurred in Raich.

tarrant84
Yes, capitalism is what makes America great

...followed by...

the freedom to pursue happiness, a person's own interests.

I don't think "capitalism" means what you want it to mean, there, buddy. Capitalism has absolutely nothing to do with personal freedom.

Well, I shouldn't say nothing. But capitalism can exist without personal freedom, and personal freedom without capitalism. They aren't intrinsically linked.

Say what you want of marijuana itself, but legalization would

A: reduce required manpower and spending in enforcement/detainment.

B: Effective decimate crime syndicate income.

C: Generate tax revenue.

I'm no rocket surgeon, but the math seems to work out in favor of you.
/brain scientist?

mrexcess: scientific evidence that marijuana causes brain damage

Well, that evidence doesn't exist. In fact, the THEORY was dismissed years ago when not a single scientific test could support it (even tests sponsored by those who had a very serious interest in finding evidence of brain damaging effects).

hahahaha


/pwned?

surfnazi
I don't know about you, but I smoked weed because I wanted the effects that weed offered, without much or any negative side-effects. That same offering cannot be said for the other category I drugs that "more people will use". This notion that people use weed because its illegal, so if it weren't illegal they'd go on to the next drug level doesn't make sense to me. People use whatever drug they do because they want to. If weed were available at the super market, or you could grow it in my back yard without fear, then no one would EVER have to deal with a drug dealer of any sort, friendly or otherwise. Unless they have poor gardening skills.

No, it's true though. Look at other countries in Europe, they have decreased pot usage overall. Obviously it shoots up initially, but then as it becomes normal poeple stop using or use less often. Think of it this way: legalizing pot will definitely not decrease use of harder drugs. And it is highhly likely that there will be SOME people who will switch to harder drugs.

Madcat, harder drugs tend to be a bit more behind-the-scenes, because of the harsh penalties (and resultant paranoia) associated with thier use and distribution.

For example, when I was in high school, I did drugs ranging from acid to Xanax, and guess where I got them from? The biggest dealer in the school, whose main stck in trade was, you guessed it, bud.

Hard drug use ranges across all socioeconomic strata. From the cheerleader who loads up on X and gets gang-farked by the football team to the freaks like me who would come to school whacked out of thier minds on acid, hard drugs are everywhere.

And the only people who knew I was anything but your basic pothead where the ones that I hung out with on a daily basis, and knew me for several years. Why did I do heavy drugs? Because I WANTED to. Many o the drugs I frequently indulged in fell well outside the spectrum of "cool" drugs, like coke and ex. I preferred pot and powerful hallucinegens.

Why is weed illegal? Because our politicians are generally a bunch of pimps, shysters, and whores without the balls to look past the next election cycle, that's why. No great conspiracy, it's simply because the rotten pigfarkers are too concerned with thier political careers to stand behind thier constituancy.

Microbe: Yup. I know that, you know that....apparently DiamondSmasher did not know this, however. Until now.

/lets see if he notices

mrexcess: Sounds like you sold your country out long ago. No sir... economic opportunity is not what makes America great, and it never has been.

You sound like a capitalist, not an American.

Trolling at this time of night?

mrexcess: Capitalism has absolutely nothing to do with personal freedom.

It has everything to do with freedom. Throw up a shingle and open up shop. Pursue any skill you'd like and work for a business, maybe start your own business. The harder you work, the farther you get. If you don't want to work, be a janitor. Your success depends on you-- not the government.

What economic model do you suggest for freedom? Communism? Remember how that worked out?

drunkMSUguy: How is that a troll? I believe that statement 100%. I said it to him in the hopes that he'd reconsider or at least recognize what his priorities are, not as a troll.

I take it you disagree with me? Why?

tarrant84
There's a reason Americans find communism and socialism so appalling.

We do? Here I was thinking it's a good think to make sure people don't die because of an easily treatable infection if they don't have the money, are guaranteed a wage that can at least put food in their mouths (though we should have a living wage), and are guaranteed government oversight of workplaces for safety issues.

I was sitting here thinking that the thing that makes America great is that a man can make himself a great success with hard work while there's enough of a safety net to keep his fellow man and his fellow man's children from starving to death.

tarrant84
It has everything to do with freedom. Throw up a shingle and open up shop. Pursue any skill you'd like and work for a business, maybe start your own business. The harder you work, the farther you get. If you don't want to work, be a janitor. Your success depends on you-- not the government.

I call that tunnel vision, born of misplaced priorities. Liberty is about a lot more than the liberty to start a business.

/the love of money is the root of all evil

mrexcess

While there is more to liberty than just lack of financial constraints, that is at least a part of liberty. If the government can absolutely control your pocketbook, you are indeed limited in the kinds of freedom you enjoy.

How can you call making yourself rich, or starting a business, or feeding your family for that matter, what makes America great? Weren't all of these things possible before America? Then they cannot be what makes us great.

EdgeRunner

The US is a big country, and can afford to handle this more scientifically.

Legalize marijuana in three states: Washington, Arkansas and Alabama. That's a fair cross-section.

Now give it a year and observe the results. If all's well and good and those states don't collapse in flames, then put nationwide legalization up to a vote.

But if all isn't well and good and they do collapse in flames, then the dangers become obvious, and all the US loses is Washington, Arkansas and Alabama, which is more of a win than a loss.

haha. i vote you thread winner.

Mugato: Yeah, from what I hear, weed is a lot more beneficial with fewer side effects. That goes for most anti-depressants and ceraintly pain killers. Not to mention the whole glaucoma thing.

As for the withdrawl effects of marajuana vs alcohol that someone mentioned, forget marajuana because there is none that I've ever heard of. Take 10 HEROIN addicts and ten hard core alcoholics and put them in a room for a couple days. Both will suffer horrendous DTs, hallucinations, vomiting, etc. The difference is, all ten heroin people will walk out alive. One of the alkies won't. There is no rational reason why alcohol is legal and pot isn't. Not one.


Never knocked pot for its recreational drug use, I'm for legalization. I'm just saying theres no pharmaceutical conspiracy. Marijuana does have some benefits but is not nearly as effective as other drugs nor should it be revered as some super-duper cure-all like most hippie dumbarses push it as.

I'm sorry to say, but the Medicinal Marijuana front is a sham.