If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Some Editorial)   "Intellectual poverty is the most striking quality of the Bush administration's new National Security Strategy statement, issued on Thursday." And it gets better from there   (iht.com) divider line 353
    More: Obvious  
•       •       •

19130 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Mar 2006 at 11:57 AM (8 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



353 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | » | Last | Show all
 
2006-03-19 01:39:22 PM
Bugger. Neglected to mention the tax cuts; they've been quite expensive, and some have been of arguably dubious value. The "tax cuts stimulate the economy" argument isn't that great of an argument if the tax cuts don't stimulate it enough to make up for the revenue shortfall.

And certain industry subsidies, such as agricultural protectionism and so forth.
 
2006-03-19 01:39:52 PM
"But doesn't that raise the possiblity of social unrest in China on an unprecedented scale? I mean, God knows you can't win a land war in Asia (well, Fezzinni knows, anyway) but what about a massive Civil War in Asia, how does that shiat turn out?"

Although theoretically possible I woudn't put high hope in it. We all know how the chinese government responds to their political detractors. Also lack of a strong communication infrastructor (although improving) and basically no private firearm ownership makes creating a large scale revolution difficult. I think we may see a slow evolution in China though, moving more towards a capitalist society and the eventual expansion of human rights, but this is decades in the making. Evolution is after all a very slow process.
 
2006-03-19 01:39:53 PM
"Did somebody say Fellini?"

No, he very clearly said Fezzini. Can't you read?
 
2006-03-19 01:39:54 PM
There's no way they could build nukes with light water reactors. Those reactors only use uranium that is pre-processed and can't be converted to weapon-grade material.

You can still use the waste to create a 'dirty' bomb. Not efficent, ugly and small yield - but given the nature of warfare in that area of the world, it'd get the job done. You could use something like that to fark up japanese port facilities for years.
 
2006-03-19 01:40:10 PM
The Billdozer: CLINTON HAD A "BUDGET SURPLUS" BECAUSE THEY COLLECTED MORE OF OUR MONEY THAN THEY NEEDED TO RUN THE GOVERMENT! That doesn't meake you a sound fiscal president or some kind of freaking economics guru, it makes you someone that had taxes higher than what was needed to support the goverment. Besides, his famous "budge surplus" was a projected budget suplus that was fueled by the tech economy and we still had a decifit in each of those years. Having a "budget surplus" doesn't mean we don't have a decifit.

From 1992 to 2000, the national deficit went from $4.06 trillion to $5.67 trillion - a difference of $1.61 trillion over a period of 8 years.

From 2001 to today, the national deficit went from $5.80 trillion to $8.28 trillion - a difference of $2.48 trillion over a period of almost 6 years.

Source: pops

Having a budget surplus is not a bad thing. It means you have money to pay the national deficit. Think it through on a smaller scale maybe.

"Oh gee honey. I made so much money this year we didn't spend it all. Let's go buy new cars instead of saving it."

Now I realize we, the American people, are responsible for the government's income, but taxes are the price we pay to run the government. We can't not have taxes; we have to have taxes. If you're so worried about Clinton's taxes being too high, realize those are also Bush's taxes. He hasn't lowered taxes except for the richest 1% of the population. Also, Congress (remember Clinton's Republican Congress?) is the body that sets taxes, not the President.
 
2006-03-19 01:40:16 PM
Re: civil unrest in China--
www.firaxis.com
"Nerve staple the rioters."
 
2006-03-19 01:41:29 PM
"Nerve staple the rioters."

I used to do that often. your economy took a hit tho.
 
2006-03-19 01:44:16 PM
Weaver95: You can still use the waste to create a 'dirty' bomb. Not efficent, ugly and small yield - but given the nature of warfare in that area of the world, it'd get the job done. You could use something like that to fark up japanese port facilities for years.

Given the nuclear black market they could have made dirty bombs without our help. Knowing where the material came from and what's being done with it would reduce the risk.
 
2006-03-19 01:44:36 PM
Billdozer

Welcome to Totalfark. Now go away
 
2006-03-19 01:44:37 PM
Although not scientific, doesn't it seem like less and less Farkers are willing to back up Bush these days? Just a couple of years ago, the debate seemed to follow the votes - around 50-50. Now, it seems, even the people who support Bush are quick to point out that they're not happy with his policies.

Midterms 2006 and the 2008 election should be interesting to watch. It probably won't change much when the Democrats get power back, but it should be interesting to watch.
 
2006-03-19 01:45:36 PM
 
2006-03-19 01:45:45 PM
Dancin_In_Anson: I got to the Paris byline and stopped...When the French cities are no longer burning at the hands of "students", I'll hear them out.

Is this the new "But, Clinton..."???

But, France....

:P
 
2006-03-19 01:46:18 PM
"You can still use the waste to create a 'dirty' bomb. Not efficent, ugly and small yield - but given the nature of warfare in that area of the world, it'd get the job done. You could use something like that to fark up japanese porn facilities for years."

NOooooooo!
 
2006-03-19 01:46:37 PM
2006-03-19 01:30:43 PM Abagadro [TotalFark]

Your factual information has no place here on Fark, Abagadro!

: )
 
2006-03-19 01:46:47 PM
How many posts will it take until those who are trying to set the record straight figure out the difference between debt and deficit?
 
2006-03-19 01:47:41 PM
Needs a *hero* tag... The NYT owns the Int'l Herald Tribune, and yet I haven't seen an editorial nearly this fun in the US paper.
 
2006-03-19 01:47:43 PM
The Billdozer: My fav president was Reagan followed by Washington,

Bush's spending policy is just like Reagan's.
 
2006-03-19 01:47:56 PM
Given the nuclear black market they could have made dirty bombs without our help.

The point here being that Clinton didn't need to give them a headstart....

Knowing where the material came from and what's being done with it would reduce the risk.

I'm sure that would have been a tremendous comfort to the victims of the bomb. The bad news is that you're gonna die from radiation burns - but the GOOD news is that we know it was North Korea who did it! Here, have some morphine...no need to thank me!

bleah.

Water under the bride tho - I'd like to know what we're going to do about them RIGHT NOW, not what we should have done back then. And Bush hasn't articulated anything consistant about China and/or North Korea.
 
2006-03-19 01:50:42 PM
"Bush's spending policy is just like Reagan's."

You say that like it's a bad thing. Listen, if I wanted to water my lawn, I could just spray it with a hose. But sometimes, I want to drink from the hose too. So why not just drink from the hose and then when I have to pee, I just go in my pants and let it trickle down my leg onto the lawn. And Jesus takes care of the rest.
 
2006-03-19 01:52:06 PM
The point here being that Clinton didn't need to give them a headstart....


NK already had plutonium at that point from the Yongbyon reactor which would be far, far worse than anything a light-water reactor could produce. Clinton didn't give them a "headstart" on anything. The light water reactors were carrots to get inspectors in there and, again, were never built.
 
2006-03-19 01:53:18 PM
Donald_McRonald

I wish you were my economics prof - I still wouldn't have learned a GOTdamn thing, but I would have had more fun.
 
2006-03-19 01:53:35 PM
Donald_McRonald:

So why not just drink from the hose and then when I have to pee, I just go in my pants and let it trickle down my leg onto the lawn. And Jesus takes care of the rest.

Actual LOL. One of the funniest things I've read on fark in quite a while. Props to you.
 
2006-03-19 01:54:21 PM
Great...Bush is wasting our tax dollars to overthrow legitamate governments that have no threat to our stability. Just the spectre of communism, er...I mean WMD...is a "supposed" threat, we must invade. We are providing "welfare" to Iraq, Afghanistan, our Corporations and Military-Industrial complex, at the sake of each of our paychecks.

And certain political parties complain about "welfare"...

Look at our expenditures. Protecting oil and big business is not in our best interest, or our security.

Fcuk it...let the Arabs take their oil...we as Americans (and any other culture that values freedom) can take our technological advances and use them to do away with this freakin' dependance.

What, you say...you want to be dependant on this "oil" crap for another 20-50 years? I'd rather be dependant on heroin...at least that makes all problems go away (temporarily of course).

Instead of solving the problem, we are running around in circles.
 
2006-03-19 01:54:46 PM
Weaver95: I'm sure that would have been a tremendous comfort to the victims of the bomb. The bad news is that you're gonna die from radiation burns - but the GOOD news is that we know it was North Korea who did it! Here, have some morphine...no need to thank me!

A dirty bomb wouldn't detonate like an atomic bomb. It would spread radiation but in all likelihood the damage caused would be about the same as a conventional weapon. Radiation sickness would be minimal; however, the environmental contamination would be pretty bad albiet contained.

If they're going to use a bomb, it would be better for them to be forced into using low-grade uranium rather than highly enriched uranium or plutonium.

There's a difference between appeasement and interdependence. Protectionism tends to be a greater cause of war.
 
2006-03-19 01:54:52 PM
The Billdozer: The guy could cure cancer and AIDS, even every war on the planet, create cold fusion, and give everyone a million dollars, and people would still biatch and complain about not having new siding on their brand pool house.

He COULD do that, but he chooses to do other things, like a stupid war in Iraq, tax cuts primarily for his rich buddies, torture jails, rendition, spying on Americans without making the simple effort of getting a warrant.

And then there's the things he SHOULD do, but fails or fails to even try, like properly handling the Katrina crisis, the insurance crisis, fuel economy, making the US energy independent.

Let me know when he starts working on something POSITIVE for America, and then I'll start praising him.

/Hasn't happened yet.
 
2006-03-19 01:56:36 PM
Korovyov: The "tax cuts stimulate the economy" argument isn't that great of an argument if the tax cuts don't stimulate it enough to make up for the revenue shortfall.

Precisely. The whole "tax cuts stimulate the economy and eventually result in more tax dollars" is based on monetarist theory and the Laffer curve. Unfortunately, no one has ever proven exactly where the point on the curve reflecting least taxes/most gain is. One thing is for sure, if you're already under that point, then further tax cuts will only hurt the government's spending power.

We've been moving that point around ever since Kennedy greatly reduced the income tax structure 40 years ago. Even Reagan found out that his initial tax cuts were too large an d raised them a bit later. Bush, SR did the same thing.

My point is that I think we'd already received as much benefit from lower taxes/more stimulus well before Bush, jr came to office.
 
2006-03-19 01:56:48 PM
Billdozer:

1. Our GNP currently stands at 12 trillion.
2. Our national debt stands at approx. 8.2 trillion.
3. President Bush has given us 3 trillion of this debt is just five years, with three more to go.
4. Our debt for this year is conservatively forcast at 400 billion this year and 400 billion the next.

If this spending rate continues, then in five more years national debt will approximately equal GNP. When this happens, it would theoretically take every dollar made in the U.S. over the course of a year to pay things back down to zero.

Educate yourself:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2006/pdf/hist.pdf
 
2006-03-19 01:57:52 PM
It would spread radiation but in all likelihood the damage caused would be about the same as a conventional weapon.

Well...no. Actually it depends on other factors. I'd suggest a trip to the library for more information tho, lest we get a visit from the Men in Black for a discussion of nuclear bomb making on a public forum slamming Bush's foreign policy decisions.

Which actually leads me to yet another thing i'm unpleased about the Bush admin...but that's enough material for the secret service as it stands.
 
2006-03-19 01:59:41 PM
Weaver95

water under the bride

http://www.worth1000.com/entries/131000/131487uBdA_w.jpg
 
2006-03-19 01:59:50 PM
Your factual information has no place here on Fark, Abagadro!

: )


Oh sorry. You are all poopieheads!
 
2006-03-19 02:00:24 PM
The Billdozer: I wish. All things considered, I don't think anyone would pass up the opportunity to be one of the most succesful and influential people in the past 100 years.


Just so you know, Hitler was one of the most influential people in the past 100 years, too.

/There's good influences and bad influences.

//Even Rush doesn't believe half the crap he spews - he just does it because the "Ditto-heads" will believe anything and it pays off for him.
 
2006-03-19 02:00:31 PM
Weaver95: Well...no. Actually it depends on other factors. I'd suggest a trip to the library for more information tho, lest we get a visit from the Men in Black for a discussion of nuclear bomb making on a public forum slamming Bush's foreign policy decisions.

Which actually leads me to yet another thing i'm unpleased about the Bush admin...but that's enough material for the secret service as it stands.


I've read up a bit on this stuff for research papers at school, but yeah you're right. This is kind of a dead end discussion, not to mention a kind of mundane.

Oh Patriot Act. You're so useless.
 
2006-03-19 02:02:35 PM
By the way, did anyone else think that column ended
(abruptly?)
 
2006-03-19 02:03:53 PM
Zenmc : "To me a liberal with some libertarian leanings, a C- average from a school regardless of type means the following. Your teachers/professors felt you performed slightly below the average of what they expected from you and your classmates. I don't care what your political alignment is, I don't want you in any position of power if that was your performance in college. Hell, I wouldn't want you managing a business I own, let alone the country I live in."

So the Dem response is to nominate a candidate who - according to the academic records he finally released (as promised - if late) - got worse grades & scores?

We had a President who was almost always the smartest person in the room. Carter. Even most Dems admit his tenure wasn't all that great. In 2008 we may get Hillary. Even if she is as smart as she (and the Mr.) thinks she is, I expect a Hillary tenure to be just as much of a galloping mediocracy - based upon her past "successes" at running things and influencing people. The old joke is that the Senate is a room full of 100 people who all know they would be a better President than whoever the current one is - but sadly I think being one of a hundred prima-donas translates poorly into being THE prima-dona.

As to Bush being an idiot - I have to side with the Libertarians - all politicians are idiots. To some degree. But between Bush/Gore and Bush/Kerry I still suspect we got the lesser of two idiots both times.....
 
2006-03-19 02:04:17 PM
The Billdozer: Dude, if you realized how many times the U.S. intelligence services gets a notice that there is going to be an attack on this country, you would wet your pants.

How often do they make a page and a half of the President's Daily Brief? [pops]
 
2006-03-19 02:04:17 PM
How can such a great country have such a lack of intelligent leadership at the top? I include both parties and CEO's.
 
2006-03-19 02:04:50 PM
Even Reagan found out that his initial tax cuts were too large an d raised them a bit later. Bush, SR did the same thing.

I've often wondered if maybe W's unflinching support of his own tax cuts is a misreading of his pop's failure to get re-elected - what I mean is, they think it had to do with his failure to follow through on the "read my lips" thing.

But then again, I'm a hack political pundit - so what do I know?
 
2006-03-19 02:04:52 PM
Abagadro: If you want to read an analysis of the NSS document from someone who isn't French, here you go:

POPS



A selection:

It would be nice if democracy swept the planet. It would also be nice if people everywhere were trustworthy, loyal, helpful, and friendly. The operable question is: What do we do until the age of Aquarius?

:D

/You can see where that article is going.
 
2006-03-19 02:04:54 PM
Hey Farkers:

I hate to say it, but most of you guys are reasonable despite your political ideologies/leanings. Weaver95's turnaround has got me thinking...

Can't we start a new (honest) political party using the power of the internet? A political party based on FARK discussions?

At least we care about beer and boobies, and that's a great start...
 
2006-03-19 02:04:56 PM
Etchy333: This editorial is just beating America over the head with stuff it already knows. This editorial reminds me of the greatest quote in movie history:


Apparently almost 35% of Americans don't know this stuff. They definitely need to have it beaten into their heads.


The Billdozer: I think our decifit is bad, but I'm realistic about it.

In what way? You refuse to blame the person responsible for the deficit. How "realistic" is that?

As much as conservatives dislike the Clintons, when people mention Hillary all of them don't all of a sudden turn into wild-eye fanatics hell-bent on her destruction.

O RLY?

Mention W in a room of liberals and friction caused by all the wailing and gnashing of teeth could power a small terrestial colony on Mars.

You think that might be because Hillary is relatively limited in her ability to damage the country, whereas W. seems to think his power is unlimited?


Cleaned that up for you a bit.

Naw. You just changed it to something completely stupid and devoid of factuality. Kind of like what Fearless Leader did to our government. You know, it's okay for young folks to have heroes, but maybe you should pick a better one than Fearless Leader. He's kind of an embarassment, even if you think he's incompetent rather than evil. And it has to be one or the other.
 
2006-03-19 02:06:39 PM
I_Hate_Iowa: By the way, did anyone else think that column ended


Page 4 wouldn't load for me. Is that the problem?
 
2006-03-19 02:06:55 PM
I_Hate_Iowa

By the way, did anyone else think that column ended
(abruptly?)


It kind of looked that way until I hit the "Next Page" link ...
 
2006-03-19 02:08:04 PM
"By the way, did anyone else think that column ended
(abruptly?)"

The Fox News police got him
 
2006-03-19 02:08:16 PM
gomachan

How many posts will it take until those who are trying to set the record straight figure out the difference between debt and deficit?


A deficit if left unpaid during the current fiscal year is added on to our overall national debt through the sale of bonds and securities to make up the difference.

Am I missing something here?
 
2006-03-19 02:08:45 PM
MarkGT: Can't we start a new (honest) political party using the power of the internet? A political party based on FARK discussions?


Can we get Ross Perot to lead? I miss him. He was a funny fark and the most fun in politics maybe ever.
 
2006-03-19 02:08:53 PM
...No, poverty suggests room for improvement...I'd say 'intellectual vacuity'.
 
2006-03-19 02:10:20 PM
sale of bonds and securities to make up the difference.

hold on a sec - I have NO econ background, so I'm slow on this - you mean that big fat ugly number (our debt) is actually represented in paper certificates that somebody else owns?

(i told you i was slow at this, bear with me, please)

so who owns these little pieces of paper?
 
2006-03-19 02:10:25 PM
ZipBeep: Can we get Ross Perot to lead? I miss him. He was a funny fark and the most fun in politics maybe ever.

Now wait a minute, can I finish? Can I finish?
 
2006-03-19 02:10:45 PM
arguing over this is pointless.... how often do you think people minds are changed by others opinion? very little.
i see these 'discussions' on fark all the time and while i must say i do agree with a certain side of the argument, the way in which these arguments take place is very unorganized and therefore very meaningless. if someone unfamiliar with fark username and personalities looked at this they wouldnt have a clue as too what was going on. unfortuneatly this is the weakness of forums...random discourse with nothing to take from it..
 
2006-03-19 02:11:36 PM
ZipBeep: Page 4 wouldn't load for me. Is that the problem?

I couldn't even get a page 3. Maybe that would seem abrupt.
 
Displayed 50 of 353 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | » | Last | Show all



This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report