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(Some Satch fan)   Listen to Satriani's new CD on his website. Why don't more musicians do this?   ( divider line
    More: Cool  
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8027 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Mar 2006 at 10:45 PM (11 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

203 Comments     (+0 »)

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2006-03-18 01:35:51 AM  
For the sake of reference...

A 12" 33rpm vinyl record can hold about 23 minutes of quality music on each side, give or take. Since the actual sound wave is being physically pressed into the vinyl, that number is dependant on the music being cut. Classical records tend not to have the loud bass lines that pop records have, so the grooves can be cut closer together, resulting in longer playing time.

Alternately, during the mastering process, the mastering engineer can choose to attenuate the loudness of the music cut into the record in order to allow him to cut the grooves tighter and fit more onto a side. IIRC, there was a Todd Rundgren album that was infamous for this. The mastering engineer was able to put in over 30 minutes on each side, but the record played so softly that you had to tape it to a cassette in order to be able to listen to it properly.
2006-03-18 01:37:42 AM  
See length


See length


see length


Also, Petrucci > *.
2006-03-18 02:24:10 AM  
inputdownable: Before I appreciated the talent Claypool possessed...

I'd listen to Possessed before Primus any day.
2006-03-18 02:32:17 AM  

Given I was born in 74, I was exposed to a lot besides Hendrix and McLaughlin. Though I was listening to both as literally a baby. Dad would put on Hendrix, Miles Davis or Mahavishnu Orchestra while holding me. But I remember being blown away by Van Halen when I was 9. Sometimes as good as there is, stays that way. And if you want good recent guitar players, Paige Hamilton and Larry Lalonde. And then there's Vernon Reid.
2006-03-18 02:36:56 AM  
man, I thought most bands did this nowadays, or at least the ones I listen to. Wilco is a prime example.

/Ana Ng and I are getting old
//yes, I know that's not a Wilco lyric.
2006-03-18 02:41:33 AM  
Smashing Pumpkins in 2000.
They had past albums up on their site for quite a wile to stream, as well as all their promo videos. Their commercial failure that was "Machina/The Machines of God" was up for streaming when the album was out. Even before the album was released in stores the band released studio demos of early arrangments and song outtakes.

And The Pumpkins also had numerous official released demos and past material as well as their last studio album entitled "Machina II/Friends and Enemies of Modern Music" which spread like wildfire on the internet. "Machina II", IMO, has better songs than the commercially availible "Machina I".

It's good to see bands like Harvey Danger release material in this fashion. Love them- or in most cases utterly HATE - The Smashing Pumpkins, they used the internet successfully before blowing up. Like I mentioned, even if you hate The Smashing Pumpkins it's a good example of artists connecting to whatever fanbase that they have.
2006-03-18 02:58:32 AM  

hemispheres is my favorite album... not underated in my book!
2006-03-18 03:43:46 AM  
Ishkur: It's seriously an overblown, pompous journey through Aynland, and when music (its usually prog rock that does this) gets that long-winded and dorky, it's time to take a step back and check your premises.

I like how you manage to work in at Objectivism in every thread you post in.

No, really. I'm not being sarcastic...
2006-03-18 03:44:41 AM  
work in at Objectivism

There was a "jibes" in there somewhere, but it ran off to join the circus.
2006-03-18 03:58:06 AM  
Unpossible! Satriani on Fark. Sweet
2006-03-18 04:00:12 AM  

Stu Hamm has played with both Satriani and Vai, and has released three studio albums that I know of (because I have them on CD). There may be more that I don't know about.

He's a phenomenal bass player; I rank him up with guys like John Entwistle and Geddy Lee, and above Les Claypool, because Claypool's style is a little too avant-garde for my taste.

Hamm's studio albums are uneven. IMHO the best is Kings of Sleep. The title track is a seven-minute piece that is just beautiful. The worst album is The Urge, which is something that he threw together with a bunch of guest artists. He also sings on that one, which serves mostly to show that he should shut up and play his bass. I kinda thought the same thing about Satch the first time I heard "Big Bad Moon". The song "Quahogs" is from The Urge. The other album (his first) is called Radio Free Albemuth. My favorite song off that album is called "Country Music (A Night in Hell)".

/Music geek
//Married a chick who likes brainless pop music
///Switched to talk radio in self-defense
2006-03-18 04:04:19 AM  
Guys like Satch take all the mystique and coolness out of guitar playing for everyone other than a) the guys that want to emulate people like satch and be fretburners all their lives, boring girls with their shiatty displays of "shredditude," near jeri-curl caliber permed hairdos, doo-rags, leather, dangly earrings, designer guitar bodies, etc, or b) people who are vastly under-exposed to guitar players/playing who still think that dorky shiat is cool.

I actually listened, and I was so turned-off by the lameness of the first track, including, but not limited to: his voiceovers, his guitar sound, the production, the drum sound, and most of all, the complete lack of anything new to offer musically that I haven't heard 30000 times before. Sure, he has the lame novelty effect that "adds octaves" (70's buzzword that nobody gives a shiat about today), but to me that makes it sound even more lame. The riff itself was crippled with the talentless lack of creativity that satch has been vomiting forth for the last 10 years. Yes, thats right.. take away all the other junk I mentioned, leaving just the actual guitar composition, and yes.. there you have it.. it's weak, contrived, and reeks of an old guy's creative trickle having finally dried out completely.

Honestly, I don't think he has ever been cool.

Someone said "masturbation" earlier.. they were right. Wanna masturbate? Do it on a cello. Or a classical guitar. Or hell, do it on a piano.. but for the love of all that is holy, don't do it on an electric guitar with your shiatty drum-machine programmed rock beats and your just all-out weak songwriting.

He cites his inspiration for "supercolossal" as "I was imagining myself as a giant, walking through the city playing this huge guitar." If that is the well of turds that you have to draw from in order to create music, you really shouldn't be creating music anymore. Ok correction.. create it all you like, but people shouldn't be listening anymore.
2006-03-18 04:18:25 AM  
Prominantly featuring his new JSX head. Fool needs to get offa Peavey, that ship's sinking fast.

And wtf @ bolt-on neck, Joe? If I had a pro model, it'd be way cooler than the JS1000.

//SRV licks in a JS tune?
///no shredding, just slashing
2006-03-18 04:22:23 AM  
diseaser: Let us know when your new album is coming out dood.
2006-03-18 05:07:49 AM  
Sometimes reading these forums depresses me, especially when it's about music. I don't know what these harsh critics *like*, but if the emo/screamo/thrash-core and other whiny, trite and punk-inflected crud I hear on the radio is what you think is good, then I'll wallow in the music they call bad. And actually pay money for the CD, which is more than a lot of the critics will do for the talentless poseurs they come here to promote.
2006-03-18 05:30:35 AM  
Where I grew up there was a guy who could shred beyond belief--to this day I remember his speed as amazing. He went to GIT and within a couple weeks was sent home to "learn some theory." He ended up as "lead guitar" for some pathetic metal cover band with an English singer. They played our small Iowa hometown and even the locals, who showed up in droves to see their hero, realized it was total crap.
2006-03-18 05:44:02 AM  
Thats the problem with CDs. Since people know you can fit almost 80 minutes of music on one, people think every album should be that long. You end up with albums loaded with crap to fill the time. I'd rather have a good solid album thats shorter then one thats inflated to give the impression of value. Look at an album like 2112 by Rush, It's like 38 minutes long. It's considered a classic. Should they load it up with unreleased stuff on cd just to inflate the running time and ruin the flow of the album? Slayers Reign in Blood is only 28 minutes. It was an amazing album when it came out, but by your standards, it's a ripoff. Who cares about the length if the album is good.

Tool's Lateralus is something like, 79 minutes, 58 seconds
2006-03-18 07:05:23 AM  
Listen asshats!

This is Satch:

[image from too old to be available]

This is not:

[image from too old to be available]
2006-03-18 07:43:06 AM  
Derwood: Listen asshats!

This is Satch:

Eh, no, the gentleman at the top of your message was Satchmo
2006-03-18 08:03:22 AM  
and several people have referred to Satriani as Satchmo on this thread as well

either way, Satriani is a hack.
2006-03-18 08:47:26 AM  
Calling Satriani a hack is ridiculous.

Kurt Cobain (as far has guitar-playing skill was concerned) was a hack; he knew approximately five chords and couldn't play them within tempo. The radio airwaves are rife with similar artists who've entirely neglected to practice or get any lessons, because being a hack was popular in the 90's as a reaction against the unmusical shredding and guitar-hero posturing of the 80's.

Calling Satriani a shredder is only being descriptive; he is skilled at his instrument. On piano, Franz Liszt was similarly a "shredder"; on violin, Paganini was the "shredder" of his day. The term "shredder" is neutral; there are annoying shredders, and laudable ones.

Fortunately, unlike the unmusical shredders of the 80's, Satriani is in the category of skilled musicians who don't turn their skill into bar after bar of musical masturbation. There is a sense of melody and drama in every song; he has the compositional sense to evoke a wide range of feels, and doesn't put in extra notes just because he can.

If you don't like it; fine. But some of the dismissive remarks in here indicate, not the ears of someone who's listened to and understood Satriani but found his music "not their thing", but rather the ignorance of someone who heard Satriani's "of those guys who playes guitar kinda fast" and said, "oh, well, I guess he stinks" without hearing Track One.


-- Dr.Dipwad

/Standard nomenclature: Joe is "Satch"; Louis is "Satchmo"
2006-03-18 09:08:49 AM  

I've been playing guitar for over 20 years and had never heard of Terry Kath. (Heard Chicago, of course, but never payed any particular attention.) Odd. I've got some listening to do.
2006-03-18 09:12:02 AM  
I started listening to Satch when he started releasing CDs. I used to play Satch Boogie on the guitar. He's a great guy and all, but I hate to say it...his music just makes my head hurt now. Get off my lawn I guess.

Oh, and whoever was complaining about Vai's tone -- I used to agree, but I don't think it's his tone anymore, just his playing. He doesn't have that badass attack and note selection that some guys do for the most part. His playing is too clean and clinical. IMO.
2006-03-18 09:24:39 AM  
While I listen to much heavier music than Satriani more regularly than I do his material, I have to say Satriani is possibly the best guitarist ever. The man has a sense for melody and song writing like no one else. While my favorite guitarist is probably Dave Mustaine, Satriani mops the floor with him. Satriani always plays with heart and can evoke any emotion he feels with his guitar. He makes that instrument sing. While Vai is highly skilled and a really gifted player and musician, I don't think he quite measures up in the song writing arena. Thats the difference with most guitarsists and Mr Satriani, Satriani can just write excellent songs. While not all of his songs flavors are my thihng I can never fail to dismiss the genius and ability of Joe. I think the biggest clue to Satriani's talent is his restraint. The guy could shred like Yngwie but doesn't. He's just a masterful guitar player and top notch in a world of great guitarists and musicians, Satch is just head and shoulders above. On the other side there are guys like John Petrucci, who was phenominal 6 years ago, he has gone to shiat with recent releases. He's gone from a tasteful player and writer to a guy who can't think to do anything but shred.
2006-03-18 09:32:00 AM  
Agamemnon Machina II was definelty better than I, screw Virgin records.

The reason most people dont do this is that everyone has recording software that will rip the streaming tracks from the sound card.
2006-03-18 09:34:13 AM  

Postscript: Satch's self-titled album is his best. Slow & bluesy.

Agreed, although I'd put it in a tie with "Surfing". It's a very underrated album. I guess the different style throws people off.

/only missed one album tour
//saw original G3 twice
///can't wait to see Eric & Joe together again next month
2006-03-18 09:34:21 AM  
When Riddick's not fighting necromongers he likes nothing more than some hardcore shredding.
[image from too old to be available]
2006-03-18 09:42:27 AM  
OK, I just went & listened to "25 or 6 to 4" and "Free Form Guitar" (the latter from Chicago Transit Authority album). Small sample size of course but "25" didn't do anything for me and "Free Form" was a Hendrix ripoff.

Hendrix could have said that about Kath because:

1. He was being polite/complimentary
2. He was notoriously self-conscious about his own talent; when recording in the studio for example, he often recorded his lyrics behind a screen
3. You get used to the sound of your own playing, and when you hear something new/different you immediately assume it's better.

Or he could have really meant it, what do I know.
2006-03-18 09:43:26 AM  
I downloaded the free Harvey Danger album from the internet as well. And then I sent 'em 10 bucks.

'Cuz the only way to loosen the stranglehold the RIAA has on the music industry is to do your part in changing the system.

RIAA sucks. Starve the beast.

Robo Beat:

That Todd Rundgren LP is "Initiation". It makes a technical note on the inner sleeve "if the sound does not seem loud enough on your system, try re-recording the music onto tape." Plays absolutely fine on my system though.

Big fan of Todd's music, though some of his albums sound like total crap from a fidelity standpoint.
2006-03-18 09:50:40 AM  
yes, little green men! I know the mad cow! anyone for Gary Hoey?
2006-03-18 09:52:36 AM  
Satch is a great songwriter. I know the names of every one of his songs. How many shredders can you say that about? Malmsteen, same crap over and again. Vai is incredibly talented but not overly mature in his approch. Fire Gardern was probably his most mature release. The best songs on that album had a very big Satriani influence.
2006-03-18 10:08:14 AM  
Tony McAlpine is pretty good too. He looks better since he lost the 80s hair and went with the bald look like the rest of us middle aged men.

[image from too old to be available]
2006-03-18 10:09:01 AM  
See, that's the difference between pretentiousness and non. I know what electronic music is. It's fun, silly, dumb music, and I accept it for that stupid fact alone. I accept what electronic music is, and meet it on its own terms and never pretend that it's anything else.

And then along comes the budding Rush fan, who just HAS to grade music on a scale of masturbatory intellectualism, putting his heralded trio on some mythical pedestal and taking all the fun and enjoyment out of it.

I love Rush, but 2112 is NOT one of their better albums. It's seriously an overblown, pompous journey through Aynland, and when music (its usually prog rock that does this) gets that long-winded and dorky, it's time to take a step back and check your premises.

What did you get into this for? Because you like music? Or because you have a burning desire to prove how much of a bigger music penis you got than everyone else.

Stop being an annoying fanboy. Sheesh.

Sounds like you don't like prog rock. That was a seriously lame post. You sound like you're being an annoying anti-prog rock fanboy. Granted its too late in this thread to get a response, but who are you to tell somebody that they don't know what the best Rush album is? I think 2112 is their masterpiece, and just try and call me somebody that doesn't know Rush.

And I think Satriani kinda sucks. He's not as bad as Steve Vai, and I can respect him as a very talented guitar player, but I'm just not into his music. I'll check out the album though. Mad props for posting it on the internet. At least he knows the more people that hear, the more people that might be fans and will come see him live or even buy the CD.
2006-03-18 10:41:19 AM  
I love it when people talk about this type of music when they dont know jack s*** what they are talking about. Let them go back to their simplified 3 chord emo crap.

Most masturbatory shred sucks badly, but it's because some players dont know how to make good compositions. Composition in music is just like painted art, you have to have contrast and you need to have areas of interest. Full on shred sucks because there is no contrast in the whole song, same as why the crap that is in the radio today contrast. Now, guys like Petrucci, Vai, Satch, etc, are guys that really know how to compose decent music.

Would you say classical music sucks in the same manner? Or would yo step back and appreciate the musicianship involved? Its the same thing, instrumental guitar music is very much based in the same princinples of composition of some classical styles, but people shove it around just because it's played with an electric guitar and a guy that can really play. Yeah something that you cant do and your punky garage band...

Learn to appreciate good music. Sometimes 1000 notes a second can be good , sometimes bad...same as any other style of music.

/likes instrumental music
//hates people that bash it because they dont understand it
///Slash from GnR sucks
////yes slash
//my opinion
2006-03-18 11:12:46 AM  
Actually, OAR posts all of their CDs on their website for you to listen to on demand. And they're all pretty sweet.
2006-03-18 11:15:06 AM  
I think its just that people are jelous that they cant play his songs.

//Been playing guitar for 6 years
///Can play mostly anything by Satch
////Can also play the arpheggios in The Glass Prison
//Lets see you write songs like Satch!!!
2006-03-18 11:35:35 AM  
diseased - Good post. I am intrigued by your ideas and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

drdipwad - sorry Dr. Dickwad, just because someone can "play fast", "shred", "burn", or whatever the hell you want to call it, does not make it good music. Don't be absurd. Someone else on this thread noted that it's harder to write these instrumental opuses these clowns are known for - maybe, but it still doesn't make it better music.

wilbo26 - See above. Rush is silly and fun, but nothing magical. Their best album is Moving Pictures, possibly followed by Permanent Waves. I think even they would admit 2112 is sophomoric crap. Come on, it's embarassing material. I liked it when I was 12-15, but now you just have to laugh.
2006-03-18 11:36:53 AM  
Ah...the world is full of critics and not so full of people who have actual talent. The critics will always be legends in their own minds. I love reading these definitive reviews from those bashing Mr. Satriani's talent and promoting their personal favorites as the pinnacle of musical achievement. I recall the old adage: opinions are like @$$holes, everyone's got one. My opinion is that one should have an appreciation for many styles and genres of music because there is much to enjoy and enrich your life.

That said, thanks to betona for correctly identifying the subtle difference between Mr. Satriani's and Louis Armstrong's nicknames. Definitely one of the more intelligent posts in the thread. And to the highly opinionated no-talent hacks and otherwise brain damaged critical posters whose sub-intellectual spew can be read above: Suck It!

2006-03-18 11:37:31 AM  
Sometimes Farkers amaze me. A major recording artist makes his music available free and all you can do is put him down.

Why is a great violinist an artist, but a great guitarist is a wanker? I think some of us ready too many Rolling Stone interviews with pasty-faced, self-hating 90's alt-rockers who coundn't play their way out of a paper bag.

Those guys always took advantage of every opportunity to denigrate the talents of better guitar players than themselves.
2006-03-18 11:57:13 AM  
[image from too old to be available]
2006-03-18 12:10:55 PM  
My fav is SRV, I'm not saying he was the best, just my fave.-Out
2006-03-18 01:13:24 PM  
Over The Rainbow that commonly get shared with his name on them.

That would be a friend of mine named Danny Danzi. He is the greatest unknown guitarist in the world. He was a regular submitter at and he would post some amazing music. The weird thing is, he tunes his guitar to a C(or some other strange tuning). Get this, he is a better drummer than a guitar player. His website is or danziland. I can't remember, google his name if those are wrong. He has some mp3's posted on there. I used to sit late at night on paltalk and listen to him play for hours. He is truly extraordinary. He has the best tone ever!
Shoot,he's better than malmsteen, becker, stump, petrucci...
2006-03-18 01:19:39 PM  
Satriani's one of the best. Seems to be a total class-act, makes a fine living playing solo guitar, always comes up with fresh melodies, and doesn't march to the beat of a record label's drum.

\Seeing him 4/19 @ The Tower
\\Seeing DT @ Radio City Musical Hall April 1st
\\\Can't wait for either
\\\Saul Hudson
2006-03-18 01:29:20 PM  
You can save the streaming track out and edit out Satch's voice - voila - free album!
2006-03-18 01:53:58 PM  
Satriani was the winner of the 80's, early 90's guitar sweepstakes. He had enough chops and accessible hook-laden tunes. Perfect for beer/soda commercials and ESPN highlight tracks.

There are tons of good guitarists playing all styles. FWIW, few players can do what Ron Thral(Bumblefoot) does. Makes fun of shredding by doing it better than everybody else.
2006-03-18 02:14:25 PM  
/And Weezer and the Strokes deserve to be 62yd field-goal attempt booted straight solid in the nuts for putting out full-length albums that are only 38-44 mins long. farking jackstains, the lot of them.

100% Agree.
2006-03-18 03:24:47 PM  
[image from too old to be available]

Where can I download their latest album?
2006-03-18 03:50:56 PM  
Embo, im sure if u goto a store they will just give that album to you becuase they would be to embarrased to sell it
2006-03-18 05:01:47 PM  
these guys do something like that too>

/not affiliated
//just like independant artists
2006-03-18 06:02:00 PM  
Links: I'd listen to Possessed before Primus any day.

Haha! Good obscure reference. And damn straight, too. Seven Churches is a classic.
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