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(IGN)   "Clearly, graphics are important, but as any addict [should] know, [video] games are ultimately designed to be played, not simply gawked over. And if a game doesn't play well, all its fancy graphics may as well be for nothing."   (revolution.ign.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious  
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1434 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 14 Mar 2006 at 7:41 PM (10 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



46 Comments     (+0 »)
 
 
2006-03-14 03:27:34 PM  
Why does this link keep getting submitted with the exact same headline? I count three times now.
 
2006-03-14 03:29:01 PM  
umm, duh?

Like a woman...

sure everyone gawks at the pretty ones. But the ones that are good in bed, do the dishes, cook well, and clean... those are the keepers (at that point, looking good is only a bonus).
 
2006-03-14 03:29:33 PM  
MoriyaMug: Why does this link keep getting submitted with the exact same headline? I count three times now.

I'll only look at the link if it has better graphics than the other times it has been submitted. Better graphics = better link.

/Sticks with his SNES
//Earthbound is the best example of better graphics does not = better game.
 
2006-03-14 03:31:23 PM  
This is a horrible myth about Nintendo. Not only are their graphics bad, but the gameplay is stale and rehashed. I could write a C++ script that takes a string R randomly from a dictionary then outputs Mario:R and it would accurately describe all Nintendo games that will ever be made. The Nintendo apologists try to make it like graphics and gameplay are mutually exclusive but they aren't. Every game does not have to be the exact same as the Mario that was released for the SNES, back in the 80s, but Nintendo hasn't learned that.
 
2006-03-14 03:33:40 PM  
www.consoleclassix.com

Nuff said
 
2006-03-14 03:34:09 PM  
Crono3453: //Earthbound is the best example of better graphics does not = better game.

I think it'd be harder to pick out great games with good graphics today.

Oblivian I'm sure will be good (Arena, Daggerfall, and Morrowind were great... so I see no reason to expect anything less from Oblivian which should look amazing and be a great game to boot).

But honestly... Final Fantasy hasn't been good since 7/8 (some will say 9, but meh... I say Tactics, anyway...)

Baldur's Gate and Fallout looked like crap, but are amazing games.

Hard to think of pretty games that regularly can make a top 10 list.

Legend of Zelda OOT?
 
2006-03-14 03:37:27 PM  
Crackhead Ben: Hard to think of pretty games that regularly can make a top 10 list.

Legend of Zelda OOT?


I'll stick with my NES, SNES, and N64. Give me Goldeneye over Halo, Chrono Trigger over MOST of the new RPG games, and Ocarina of Time over most of the Zelda games. As long as it's not Chrono Cross or Zelda II: The Advenure of Link. Those two games make me want to vomit shards of my own pelvis.
 
2006-03-14 03:37:38 PM  
Earthbound is the best example, was a lot of fun.

A fun game on the DS that has decent graphics and makes great use of the touch screen is Trauma Center. It's a bit goofy, but hey when doesn't anime get a little...strange looking:

i45.photobucket.com
 
2006-03-14 03:42:07 PM  
Dammit Dirtball. Now I need to go play that game when I get home.
 
2006-03-14 03:43:24 PM  
In Rick James voice: fark 'yo Xbox 360 ni--a!!

static.flickr.com
 
2006-03-14 03:51:53 PM  
TwistedTenacity: In Rick James voice: fark 'yo Xbox 360 ni--a!!

Lunar Complete, Final Fantasy and DDR. You are my hero.
 
2006-03-14 03:55:55 PM  
Screw system advocacy. I've got 'em all, and I play 'em all. And I have more fun than the rest of you in the process.

/Neo*Geo 4 me plzkthxbye
 
2006-03-14 03:59:37 PM  
7of7: Every game does not have to be the exact same as the Mario that was released for the SNES, back in the 80s, but Nintendo hasn't learned that.

Metroid Prime. Zelda:OoT.

Mario sucks. Play the real Nintendo franchises for some actual fun.
 
2006-03-14 04:06:02 PM  
Crono3453: I have mint copies of Suikoden II and Intelligent Qube in there too. I think the only major RPG/rare game I don't have is Valkyrie Profile.

If I Ebayed the entire collection now, I could bring in a decent amount of cash.
 
2006-03-14 04:10:15 PM  
TwistedTenacity: I have mint copies of Suikoden II and Intelligent Qube in there too. I think the only major RPG/rare game I don't have is Valkyrie Profile.

If I Ebayed the entire collection now, I could bring in a decent amount of cash.


I think I saw Valkyrie Profile here in town somewhere, but they also had Final Fantasy for NES in box. Only $18.00, and I was broke that week. It was gone next time I went in. Only rare games I have are Final Fantasy III, Chrono Trigger, and Illusion of Gaia.
 
2006-03-14 04:10:46 PM  
Hehe, greenlit. Now all the cool kids will make fun of me for having a nerdy video game collection.
 
2006-03-14 04:13:33 PM  
http://www.fark.com/cgi/comments.pl?IDLink=1953357

Just sayin.
 
2006-03-14 04:21:51 PM  
uninformed. n.

7of7: This is a horrible myth about Nintendo. Not only are their graphics bad, but the gameplay is stale and rehashed. I could write a C++ script that takes a string R randomly from a dictionary then outputs Mario:R and it would accurately describe all Nintendo games that will ever be made. The Nintendo apologists try to make it like graphics and gameplay are mutually exclusive but they aren't. Every game does not have to be the exact same as the Mario that was released for the SNES, back in the 80s, but Nintendo hasn't learned that.
 
2006-03-14 04:22:30 PM  
Also:

Fast B. n. See also: idiot.
 
2006-03-14 05:00:41 PM  
I'll probably get flamed for this by someone, but for all the graphics of Final Fantasy (which are beautiful), for example, I thought the gameplay of that type of game was absofarkinglutely stupid.

I just hate turn-based Japanese games. I miss the gaming era of Tomb Raider III, where a group put out a game because it had a great play, story, and they believed in it, and really loved what they were doing - it was a unified effort to create a work of art. The gameplay itself, from actions to the game's brilliant musical score, was so great that it didn't matter that her mouth didn't move when she talked, and that her butt and head was kind of square. I was too busy having fun to biatch about graphics.
 
2006-03-14 05:11:38 PM  
Cinletharwi: Well I could argue about you mentioning TR III.. but I will say that I miss when they made CHALLENGING games like the Tomb Raider series.. not this pansy ass Prince of Persia BS. I hated, hated, HATED PoP: Sands of Time. Not only was the game pretty easy to begin with, but it actually lets you rewind the game a few seconds if you make a mistake...ridiculous.
 
2006-03-14 05:45:54 PM  
TwistedTenacity: not this pansy ass Prince of Persia BS.

I tried the new PoP, quite after about 5 minutes, sucked. I loved the first PoP I played, which I bought right around the time of TRIII.

Those old games were goal-oriented, but not as much as today's games. I loved exploring and doing whatever I wanted, but I have a hard time finding games that allow a "mode," at least, to do that.

And I think it is ridiculously stupid to omit the in-play save option (I'm talking specifically about an Indiana Jones game). Making me repeat a level 50 times does not make a game more "credible" for its difficulty, it just pisses me off to the point where I'll never buy another game from that publisher. Which is pretty much why I've had to stop buying games altogether.
 
2006-03-14 05:52:29 PM  
i only play Super Mario Brothers, the classic ones, because in my opinion, they're the only games you really need.
 
2006-03-14 06:09:58 PM  
i play with myself.

i've been known to call out to mario during, tho.
 
2006-03-14 06:26:16 PM  
Of course, when great graphics meets great gameplay, that's pretty good, too:
www.armchairempire.com
 
2006-03-14 07:52:47 PM  
Puzzle Fighter, b*tches.
 
2006-03-14 07:55:31 PM  
From my myspace profile.

"Lord Argent's Networking
Gaming - Design - Designer
When asked 'What do you want to do when you grow up.' this was my reply. These days gameplay takes a back seat to flashy graphics. I would like to help change that."

Dirtball: Nuff said

I'll see your bionic commando, and raise you.

www.consoleclassix.com

www.nes-roms.com

www.nescentral.com

And one of my all time favorites.
www.rahga.com
 
2006-03-14 08:03:58 PM  
Continuing

www.rpgfan.com

dorando.emuverse.com

images.webmagic.com

www.zonesnk.com

/I swear, microsoft should just buy SNK and put out classic collections of games. I'd kill for some online last blade 2. IMO the emulators still have a ways to go, the timing is all off.
 
2006-03-14 08:13:34 PM  
No collection may be deem "one thousand three hundred thirty seven" without:

Castlevania: Symphony of the Moonlight, Saturn Version.

Which I have.

And a Saturn

But No Controllers. And no 4-in-1 Cart.

Luckily, I have a PS version. Which isn't 1337 as the Saturn one. Because it lacks the Maria mode.

\With Blue Dragon.
 
2006-03-14 08:15:38 PM  
img101.imageshack.us

pwns T2 and TV for gameplay.

/Shifter
//SockMonkey
///Shazbot!
 
2006-03-14 08:26:21 PM  
ButteryDamage: And a Saturn


I have a copy of Panzer Dragoon Saga that I found in 1999 for $15. About a year later it started going for around $100 on Ebay.
 
2006-03-14 08:48:07 PM  
Z_Karma: pwns T2 and TV for gameplay.

Ahh, the long days of laser sniping from a grassy knoll. Then switching to the spinfusor when some punk tried to sneak up behind me.
 
2006-03-14 08:58:34 PM  
TwistedTenacity: I think the only major RPG/rare game I don't have is Valkyrie Profile.

I've been thinking of selling my copy of Valkyire Profile since I haven't played it in ages and I could easily fetch over $100 for it. But at the same time it would be hard to say goodbye. We had such good times together.
 
2006-03-14 09:02:45 PM  
lordargent

right on...does anyone still play Tribes II? I absolutely loved that game. The new one just doesn't look as cool.
 
2006-03-14 09:08:30 PM  
LordArgent

I'll agree with you on those - except that's the craptacular GBC port of Crystalis. Check the second pic in the GIS to see the difference.

Crystalis NES : Crystalis GBC :: Chrono Trigger SNES : Chrono Trigger PS1

Lesson of the day: Never trust the port.
 
2006-03-14 09:43:23 PM  
Swordblade : I'll agree with you on those - except that's the craptacular GBC port of Crystalis

Ahh, I knew something was up, but I thought the jpg was compressed to hell and back.
 
2006-03-14 10:02:01 PM  
This is stupid, IGN is one of the reasons we have the craptastic games we get these days. How many of their reviews say the "graphics suck." Then when they get one with good graphics all they do is talk about them. Forget gameplay. IGN gets to review the crap they wished for, so now piss off IGN.
 
2006-03-14 10:32:07 PM  
DavidDCC: This is stupid, IGN is one of the reasons we have the craptastic games we get these days. How many of their reviews say the "graphics suck." Then when they get one with good graphics all they do is talk about them. Forget gameplay. IGN gets to review the crap they wished for, so now piss off IGN.


Yeah, I was wondering why IGN would say that gameplay was more important than graphics.

That said, Starcraft is better than 90% of RTS's since it was released.

/convert of Wh40K: Dawn of War
//and Total War series
///ftw
 
2006-03-14 10:52:38 PM  
www.jouer.org

There are other games besides Rocket Jockey?

Huh. Who knew?
 
2006-03-15 12:46:47 AM  
I have a copy of Panzer Dragoon Saga that I found in 1999 for $15. About a year later it started going for around $100 on Ebay.

That's the only major game that I'm missing from my Saturn Collection. That, and Radiant Silvergun...

And Marvel Vs. SF... And SFA3...

\Damn, that 4MB Cart rocked.
\\Stupid Sega and their stupid braindead American division...
\\\Should've released those 4MB RAM games to US Soil...
\\\\Arcade Perfect I tells ya! Arcade PERFECT!!
 
2006-03-15 07:55:33 AM  
Amen to that. I have a friend that loves thief: deadly shadows, I told him he's missing out on the first two and he should play them. He said no way, the graphics are too old.

His loss.
 
2006-03-15 08:42:51 AM  
Yes! It took me FOUR tries, but I finally got this article greenlighted ...

Editorial: Planet Revolution
Nintendo relies on innovation, not horsepower, to drive sales of its next generation console.
by Matt Casamassina

March 8, 2006 - I am at best a reluctant role-playing game fan and at worst somebody who just doesn't care about the genre. I tend to believe this is because the majority of RPGs fall into the fantasy category and I am by nature someone who favors science fiction. But I'll be the first to concede that it may also have something to do with my attention span, which rivals that of a hamster. I bring this point up because, despite this unavoidable truth, I am dead-set on buying The Elder Scrolls: Oblivion for Xbox 360 later this month. I'm planning to make this purchase knowing full well that I probably won't stick with the game long enough to appreciate its universe or storyline. So why buy it? My reasoning couldn't possibly be shallower: I happen to think it looks gorgeous.

I've just illustrated to you the thought process of a videogame graphics junkie, or a person so intoxicated with the visual presentation of software that it alone can make or break an effort in their eyes. You might find the notion appalling, but I'd argue that we've all been there at one time or another. We've been trained by the industry to look first and consider the gameplay mechanics second. Even the people designing some of today's biggest projects have learned that graphics can be king. Consider for a moment any recent developer interview you've read or downloaded. I'll bet that the interviewee spent ample time explaining the cutting-edge graphic techniques running in-game -- your HDR lighting, normal mapping, bumped surfaces and blistering framerate -- but did they go into the same detail about the title's storyline?

The videogame industry has for more than a decade existed primarily to deliver players bigger and better aural and visual experiences. We've gone from sprites to polygons, from 2D to 3D, from hand-drawn to motion-captured, from stereo to surround sound and from standard to high-definition graphics. Microsoft and Sony are counting on the so-called "HD era" of gaming to suck in and satisfy another generation of players. Xbox 360 is so focused on HD graphics, in fact, that Bill Gates and company barely bothered to change the design of its controller from a previous generation. As a result, the console can render games in magnificent 720p resolution, but players must still push two archaic analog sticks to move and look around in a game like Perfect Dark Zero. PC first-person shooters provided better accuracy with a mouse-and-keyboard setup a decade ago. It begs the question, is the industry so determined to paint the next pretty picture that it's become collectively distracted from true gameplay innovation?

Clearly, graphics are important, but as any addict (myself included) should know, games are ultimately designed to be played, not simply gawked over. And if a game doesn't play well, all its fancy graphics may as well be for nothing.

Graphics Aren't Everything
Nintendo has in recent years taken steps to separate itself from the audio and visual war waged by Microsoft and Sony. The company's dual-screen portable, Nintendo DS, lacks the power of Sony's PSP device, but it innovates with a touch-sensitive interface. Company president Satoru Iwata has stressed on numerous occasions that unless developers continue to innovate beyond prettier visuals the videogame industry will die. Dramatic, sure, but Nintendo has remained true to its words, usually downplaying horsepower and promoting new methods to play games.

The Big N's self-described 'new generation' console, codenamed Revolution, will not regularly output high-definition visuals, which has some graphic junkies throwing a fit. Most, if not all Revolution titles will run in standard definition with the option for progressive-scan display. Some might call this a lack of foresight. After all, more than 50 percent of households are expected to own at least one HD set by 2008, according to analysts. However, Nintendo bigwigs believe that graphics have reached a "saturation point," and that gameplay, not more detailed game worlds, is in need of a renaissance. This is an approach that I can get behind regardless of my infatuation with cutting-edge visuals in software. In fact, more and more I find myself completely aligned with this game design philosophy.

I don't believe for a second some of Nintendo's reasons for this decision, though. The house that Mario built claims that Revolution will be cheaper both for developers and consumers because it doesn't support high-definition games. The upfront development hardware is certain to be more cost effective and developers familiar with GameCube will be able to pick up where they left off, yes, but that's really about it. Just because Revolution is less powerful doesn't automatically mean that software houses working on it will make cheaper games. Shenmue was made for Dreamcast, a system significantly less powerful than GameCube, but that didn't stop SEGA from sinking millions upon millions into the project. Geometry Wars was by comparison made for relative pennies and it runs in high-definition on Xbox 360. Point is, studios can just as easily make an inexpensive game for 360 or PlayStation 3 as they can on Revolution. And therefore, Nintendo cannot hold to that.

In fact, the case can be made that in some situations Revolution development will be more expensive than making software for 360 or PS3 because Nintendo's hardware is both less powerful and reliant on a new input mechanism, which makes ports a tricky affair. Third parties oftentimes simultaneously create software for two or more systems hoping to recuperate some of the production costs and the very nature of Nintendo's new hardware makes that undertaking an improbability. As a result - and we're seeing this already - many studios are creating original content for Revolution. This is, of course, great news for the end consumer, but nevertheless a potentially pricy predicament for publishers.

Furthermore, Nintendo's allegation that most gamers won't be able to tell the difference between standard and high-definition games is a stretch, to say the least. Don't get me wrong - The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess is a very pretty GameCube game, but it lacks many of the next-generation graphical bells and whistles and I think any seasoned gamer who owns an HD television will be able to see so.

And yet, Revolution games are going to be beautiful even if they don't run in high-definition resolutions. Really, one look at the current generation of titles is enough to make the point. If games like Resident Evil 4, The Chronicles of Riddick and Black have proved anything, it's that GameCube, PlayStation 2 and Xbox are very capable consoles that can produce some truly stunning visuals. Revolution will be more capable still and I'm expecting some breathtaking graphics from some of its powerhouse games.

One thing I've learned about some of my Xbox 360 games is that while the graphics are initially impressive, you eventually take them for granted, at which point gameplay returns to its rightful place as the most important factor. I'm finding that many of my 360 games look good, but play exactly like their predecessors. Fight Night. Need for Speed. Perfect Dark Zero. Project Gotham Racing 3. Cut away the prettier visuals and you're left with games that could have been made for Xbox. The gameplay is exactly the same. And this is partly why Revolution holds so much promise. The system's unique new controller may help both reinvent old genres and create brand new ones.

The Karaoke of Videogame Consoles
I've stopped thinking about Revolution as a typical next generation console and started thinking about it as a vehicle for an innovative new controller. Based on developer reports, the Big N's next platform is set to be about twice as powerful as a GameCube, which is a leap, but not a quantum one. Fans still holding out for something more are likely to be disappointed. Revolution's size, which is at least half that of Xbox 360, should be a giveaway. After all, where technology is concerned, size oftentimes does indeed matter. Does anybody honestly believe that Microsoft wanted Xbox 360 to be as big as it is? The bulky size of the console practically guarantees it low sales in Japan. No, it's a big system because it had to be. Revolution, in contrast, is small because it can be.

Developers and publishers alike believe that Revolution could ship this November with a very attractive price tag. Some believe it'll be $199 and others predict that it could go for as low as $149, which would put it in near impulse-buy territory. This is part of Nintendo's strategy for the machine. Small, quiet and affordable. Something that sits in the living room, but doesn't dominate it. Even the controller has been designed to look like a television remote so that it's neither out of place on a coffee table nor daunting to someone unfamiliar with videogames.

We talk about the mainstream, but videogames have barely scratched the surface of what that really means. When Halo or Grand Theft Auto sell three million copies, we say they have mainstream appeal, and yet that figure is miniscule compared to how many sales a popular DVD may garner in a single day. Or, for that matter, how many people view a hit television show. Revolution is the first console targeting the real mainstream - the elusive gamer and the hardcore. Everyone from the person who played through Eternal Darkness three times to the 60-something grandfather who may have no understanding whatsoever of a traditional videogame.

I've come to believe that in this way Revolution is the karaoke machine of videogame consoles. It's technology, yes, but it's technology for everyone, not just a select few. The thing about karaoke is that it's not flashy. Nobody would rave about its audio quality. And at the same time, nobody gives a damn. It's fun. It brings people together. And everyone - regardless of gender, age or even skill - can enjoy it on some level. Nintendo's console encapsulates all of the same ideals, except it's also got flash and, unlike karaoke, it has cool factor.

Beyond Niche
I'm still dazzled by the high-definition graphics in some next-generation titles, but I'm much more excited by the prospect of Revolution's controller and the gameplay mechanics it will nurture. I pick up games now and I wonder how they might play better on Nintendo's new console. Just this morning, I was going through a level in the first-person shooter Black - a spectacular looking title that could easily run on Nintendo's new generation console - and wondering how much more intuitive the experience would be with the Revmote, as people have taken to calling it. I'm confident that Metroid Prime 3 will show everyone how it's done. And when that inevitably happens, will seasoned gamers look upon traditional dual-analog control as a dated and clunky configuration? I think the answer is yes.

I believe that Revolution is Nintendo's most ambitious console to date and I really think the company is on to something big. Certainly the DS proves that consumers are looking for something fresh. Revolution is that and more. The hardware is slick. The games will be there. The price point is right. And, unlike GameCube, Revolution is unlike any other platform in the market. I wouldn't make the mistake of categorizing the hardware as a niche endeavor. I think it's more mainstream - true mainstream - than any other videogame system ever. If Nintendo can capitalize on that, and I'm beginning to think it just might, the little console without high-definition graphics may be the system that everybody wants.
 
2006-03-15 10:16:59 AM  
ButteryDamage

I have sort of the opposite problem I have all the games, but my CD-ROM stopped working in my Saturn. I just can't replace the whole system because I have a switch on the board so I can play games from any region. I need PARTS!!!

At least Sega could be nice and do another Panzer Dragoon RPG.

\Have the 4 meg cart even the 1 meg SNK cart.
\\Xmen Vs. Street Fighter ROCKED
\\\All Treasure Games ever made for the Saturn
\\\\I'll shut up now.
 
2006-03-15 11:25:59 AM  
Damaramu:
I have sort of the opposite problem I have all the games, but my CD-ROM stopped working in my Saturn. I just can't replace the whole system because I have a switch on the board so I can play games from any region. I need PARTS!!!

Go figure.

At least Sega could be nice and do another Panzer Dragoon RPG.

Sorry, I'd rather see and get through Phantasy Star Universe first than to see another PDSaga. Though another would be ...sweet sweet Venus Di Milo Gummy...

And I humbly bow down to your collection.
 
2006-03-15 12:34:48 PM  
Who needs graphics?
www.metamix.com
 
2006-03-15 11:33:01 PM  
but did they go into the same detail about the title's storyline?

No, because that would be a spoiler ;P
 
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