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(Drudge)   NASA to announce today the discovery of evidence of water on Saturn's moon Enceladus   (drudgereport.com) divider line 253
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11670 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Mar 2006 at 11:59 AM (8 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2006-03-09 01:14:40 PM
My grandfather just bought me a bunch of stock in water. This is kind of a big deal.
 
2006-03-09 01:17:06 PM
2006-03-09 12:48:17 PM bitteroldman

Why does it matter if we find YET ANOTHER celestial body with water? To true science, it doesn't matter in the least.

Define "true science." What is your background? What qualifies you to determine what science is and is not "true?"

The discovery of liquid water on an extraterrestrial body is significant for a number of reasons. For instance, consider the fact that water (liquid water, mind you) makes an excellent propellent. The presence of liquid water on Enceladus could have a profound impact on the design of any future long-term presence (either manned, or possibly even robotic) in the Saturnian system. It's always nice to know where your fuel is at.

Some NASA personal and other space buffs want to find life outside of Earth.

Are you denying that the discovery of extraterrestrial life of any nature would be significant? That it would be the one of the most (if not the most) profound discoveries in the history of mankind? It would be incredible to discover life elsewhere in the cosmos. Why? Well, you claim that it's

Because they think it will support their religious/philosophical views.

Yep, here we go. This can usually be spotted a mile away, and you're certainly no exception. NASA's entire raison d'etre is to attack the Bible, right? It's all a big secular conspiracy to undermine religion. Are tinfoil hats on sale this week? There may be folks with (ir)religious agendas inside of NASA, but there's plenty more outside. In the general sense, however, mankind's thirst for knowledge has absolutely nothing to do with religion. Our greatest scientific acheivements have come from the complete spectrum of religious thinking, from the extreme fundamentalist to the extreme atheist. My experience has been that the people who accuse NASA of "religion" are also (perhaps conveniently) the same people who have their own axe to grind.

First, all the creationists have to say is "God put it there" and the argument is a moot point (that means it no longer matters).

"No longer matters" to who? The creationists, perhaps? These are the same people who claim that the universe is six thousand years old and that mankind and dinosaurs co-existed. No rational person takes these people seriously.

That money could be put to good use in many ways that would NOT support religion.

Frankly, it has been my experience that the people who make this argument are not as concerned about the money being spent as they are about what conclusions the investigations might find. It's a bit odd that people complain about NASA's budget, which is a fraction of one percent of the total federal outlay, and yet don't bat an eyelash at the hundreds of billions (are we at a trillion yet?) being spent on the bungled boondoggle in Iraq.

Honestly, if you'd like to live in a cave, then knock yourself out; I couldn't possibly care less. Just don't expect the rest of us to live there with you.
 
2006-03-09 01:17:09 PM
zookeeper: Asteron Fair enough, do we know what the pressure on Enceladus is?

Either way, this is the first I know of actually finding liquid water on another celestial body, which seems like a big deal to me.


Better yet what is the temperature on Enceladus?
 
2006-03-09 01:17:20 PM
WayneKerr: Moon nude beaches?

Nude on the moon?
 
2006-03-09 01:17:50 PM
bongmiester

I'd beg to differ actually.

I'd imagine that they rather evolved along different paths where what we see in abudance here on earth is because it's just that.. earth. A planet with mild temps and covered with 2/3 fairly pure water and an abundance of carbon and oxygen.

We cannot use what we see on this planet as the basis for life, when we know through chemistry that self replication is possible using other elements.
 
2006-03-09 01:18:31 PM
wjllope

remember how surprising it was to find out that there is abundant life in and around deep-sea thermal vents in our own oceans. not exactly what people would have pictured as a cradle of life beforehand.


...not to mention the 48 varieties of bacteria living in nuclear waste.
 
2006-03-09 01:18:36 PM
punta_gorda_allstar, if it's potable you bet your ass!! Seriously though, it won't be long before it's traded as a valuable commodity on par with gold etc. Kinda like that in Africa now...
 
2006-03-09 01:19:10 PM
www.oasisol.com
 
2006-03-09 01:19:32 PM
bitteroldman

You have the most approriate s/n on fark.

Why explore outer space and the rest of the universe?


Because we can.

Plain and simple. Mankind has always strived for advancement and exploration, why stop now? Although Im sure you cry when you actually think about just how big the universe is and just how small and meaningless you actually are. Is that what bothers you?
If humans ever find life on another planet, it gives them hope that there could be *intelligent* life out there which would be the sports equlivant of our race winning the superbowl. That and we all wouldn't feel so damn alone.
 
2006-03-09 01:20:00 PM
Saturn's moon looks a lot like my lunch. Strange.

www.tacotico.com
 
2006-03-09 01:20:06 PM
bongmiester: Yes but i think those creatures started in a warm shallow sea somewhere else, then evolved to survive near the vents.

interesting. i hadn't heard that. sounds reasonable - if you're into that whole evolution theory.. ;-)

Life starting in ammonia is something else.

oh yes, of course - i didn't mean to imply any connection between life in NH3 and life in deep seas.. cheers
 
2006-03-09 01:20:16 PM
This is LIQUID water, not ICE water.

This is pretty neat.
 
2006-03-09 01:21:16 PM
TimBomb I think if we know one or the other, we could determine at least a range for the unknown...

/maybe we'll find Popplers
//"These would be great with gwackamole!"
 
2006-03-09 01:23:23 PM
loununez

HUZZAH! The thread is officially complete.
 
2006-03-09 01:24:09 PM
DarthBrooks

Voyager 2 found water ice on Enceladus back in 1998.

This ain't news.


I was going to tear you to bits but I see my astronomy loving friends already butt raped the credibility out of you. Suffice to say...



RTFA
 
2006-03-09 01:25:14 PM
GuyMontag, for every idiot out there who would gladly pay, there a 100 evil farkers ready to sell it to them.
 
2006-03-09 01:25:27 PM
bitteroldman

Good Grief!


Listen Lucy, I was responding to your question: "What is NASA good for".

Have we not repaired satellites? Do we not? Do we launch them from shuttles? Did this ever go through? http://www.engadget.com/2005/04/03/the-dart-nasas-autonomous-satellite-repair- robot/

I'm sure Im the only one on this thread that has worked for NASA.

And you're getting a kick out of my replies...

relax, rub one out if necessary
 
2006-03-09 01:25:39 PM
Thank you seventypercent and wolfdog for pointing out rather eloquently the absurdity spewing forth from the fingers of a bitteroldman.
 
2006-03-09 01:26:56 PM
scseth

nice
 
2006-03-09 01:27:17 PM
This just in: nobody gives a shiat about NASA any more.
 
2006-03-09 01:30:13 PM
This thread reminds me that its lunch time
 
2006-03-09 01:31:30 PM
seventypercent
You surprised me.
The first rabid attack came from an evolutionist.
I'm surprised.
I thought a Jesus nut would jump me first.
Oh well, you never know.


Now a little FYI...
NASA had a program that I worked on.
It was called HSCT.
We were very close to making a 400 seat passenger jet that could fly above Mach II (and we were considering much faster flights), and do it quieter and with less fuel/emissions than a 747.
Think about it. What if you could fly from LA to NY in 30 minutes at half the current price?

Then a major airplane maker took a close look at what would happen to the sale of their main products and the program died.
And yet we seek water on a moon of Saturn.

Tell me, if they find life, will my Honda get better gas mileage?
Will my house payment drop?
 
2006-03-09 01:36:20 PM
Jesus nut.

www.blueghosts.com
 
2006-03-09 01:37:55 PM
meshman:
Ok, and this means what, other than one of Saturn's moons have water?

The remote possibility of life.
 
2006-03-09 01:39:46 PM
bitteroldman: Tell me, if they find life, will my Honda get better gas mileage?
Will my house payment drop?


ahh the old 'what's in it for me?' routine.
take a look at this

BTW 'HSCT' is also an acronym for 'High School Competancy Test'... or maybe you meant High Speed Civil Transport. dunno

cheers
 
2006-03-09 01:42:52 PM
AHAHA. Great Military pilot reference!

All these worlds are yours except for Europa. Do not attempt to land on Europa!
 
2006-03-09 01:44:54 PM
Leave NASA the hell alone. If you think funding should be diverted elsewhere, the go out, get a degree, and write the grant proposal to do the research yourself. Jesus farking christ, if there was as much interest in expanding our knowledge of the universe as there was in American Farking Idol, we'd have made it to the Centauri system by now. Fine, so the Cold War is over. There's no oil on the moon. I guess the idea of sustaining NASA for the sole purpose of scientific research would make us horrible people.

For those of you who support NASA (and the ESA, JSA, etc. for that matter) I thank you. Knowing that there are still people within and outside of the scientific community taking an active interest in the entire space program makes my job all the more rewarding.

/Physicist
//Yes, I know we wouldn't have REALLY made it to the centauri system.
 
2006-03-09 01:46:00 PM
wjllope
Thats a nice article.
But it doesn't even come close to answering the question.
If they find life in space, will it help us here?
Will it effect anything other than religious arguments?
No it won't.
Its all about religion philosophy and curiosity.
NASA could be spending it time, manpower resources and money on science. That would improve life here.
But they don't.
Oh, and yes, HSCT was the high speed civil transport project.
Considering most of the people on this thread just got home from school, I should have pointed that out.
 
2006-03-09 01:51:33 PM
I think we have a new Fark Cliche:

Thats a nice article.
But it doesn't even come close to answering the question.
If they find life in space, will it help us here?
Will it effect anything other than religious arguments?
No it won't.
Its all about religion philosophy and curiosity.
NASA could be spending it time, manpower resources and money on science. That would improve life here.
But they don't.
Oh, and yes, HSCT was the high speed civil transport project.
Considering most of the people on this thread just got home from school, I should have pointed that out.
 
2006-03-09 01:52:36 PM
2006-03-09 01:31:30 PM bitteroldman

You surprised me.
The first rabid attack came from an evolutionist.
I'm surprised.


Call it "rabid" if you wish; I considered it to be a reply commensurate with your fiery invective.

Tell me, if they find life, will my Honda get better gas mileage?
Will my house payment drop?


Just so that I'm understanding you correctly here, are you seriously claiming that NASA should only be engaging in activities that will make your "Honda get better gas mileage" and your "house payment drop?" That's a rather bizarre attitude. The US government spends over 2 trillion dollars a year, very little of which has any impact on your gas mileage and/or your mortgage. For this reason, I continue to find it interesting that you're singling out NASA.

You still haven't explained what sort of qualifications you have that make you the arbiter of what is and is not "true science." You claim to have worked with NASA -- that's nice; so have I (still do, actually.) But you completely miss the point: exploration and discovery for the sake of exploration and discovery is one of the things that makes the human race unique. Without this thirst for knowledge, nobody would have ever bothered to set sail for the New World. Nobody would have bothered studying this "useless" mold that had developed in a plate culture of Staphylococcus to determine what its properties were. We'd never have bothered to come down from the trees.

But like I said, if you prefer it in the trees, nobody is stopping you from setting up permanent residence there. Turn off your TV, keep away from the newspaper, and for God's sakes don't go near a science journal, lest you be exposed to some of the findings of this "false" science. But if you're philosophically opposed to space exploration, the only response I can give you is: tough. I'm not crazy about a trillion dollars a year being pumped into various wars all across the globe, but them's the breaks.
 
2006-03-09 01:54:50 PM
Can't we all just have casual sex?
 
2006-03-09 01:55:23 PM
NASA has information on it's webpage right here

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/cassini/media/cassini-20060309.html

/lacks html skills
//NOT Bitter-old-man
 
2006-03-09 01:56:34 PM
bitteroldman: But it doesn't even come close to answering the question.
If they find life in space, will it help us here?
Will it effect anything other than religious arguments?
No it won't.
Its all about religion philosophy and curiosity.


I agree with you that NASA throws away a lot of money - but if it helps keep children interested at all in science then I'm for it. Searching for life outside of Earth isn't such a bad thing either - finding it could serve as a giant FARK YOU to all the "intelligent design" people. That alone would be totally worth it.
 
2006-03-09 01:58:27 PM
I just can't believe that people are against funding for NASA. If everyone had such a limited scope of interest in things past our own front yard, we may as well of stayed cave people.

/umm, kind of joke in there, well at least to me
 
2006-03-09 01:58:28 PM
Bitterman
sorry about the name thing.
I didn't know about you when I made the profile.
I've used this name several times and places.
If I had known you had it here, I would have used something else.
 
2006-03-09 01:58:42 PM
yay water! now that justifies their budget doesn't it? too bad we still have a second rate education system, rampant crime, and cancer to deal with. but hey, there's water on some useless dirtball out there in our solar system!

Educate thyself.
 
2006-03-09 02:01:23 PM
It is nice to see people attacking my posts without reading them.
Gives me faith in the youth of America.
NOW GET OFF MY LAWN with those HULA HOOPS! And Turn Down That Rock-Roll music!
 
2006-03-09 02:03:02 PM
Almost anywhere there is water on Earth there is life. I think that it's more than likely that wherever there is water life has a good chance.
 
2006-03-09 02:05:14 PM
Bitteroldman, don't sweat it. I'm just bustin on ya.
 
2006-03-09 02:08:07 PM
c'mon WayneKerr, I am saying that the FUNDING could be spent in much better ways, not that cancelling nasa will solve all those problems. please read before posting buddy.

Yes, because lasers, satellites, ultrasound, breast cancer detection, MRIs, surgery technology, robots, Dopler, fire detectors, solar energy, and earthquake prediction are all complete wastes of money. If NASA never existed, we'd SO be better off.
 
2006-03-09 02:10:34 PM
Did they find the 'Brown 25' from the Uranus Corporation?

There's something coming out if Uranus, and we thought you should know about it.
 
2006-03-09 02:11:59 PM
Kenshiko: lasers

i've got to give the laser to Bell Labs.
or maybe Townes et al for the Maser.
or maybe einstein for the theory or stimulated emission...

/not disagreeing w/ your basic point though
 
2006-03-09 02:13:03 PM
Thanks, loununez; they really put the "O" in Orion...

I like my Enceladus with a nice mole sauce and a slice of Avogadro.
 
2006-03-09 02:14:28 PM
VigorousCircularMotion: mole sauce and a slice of Avogadro.

nice.
 
2006-03-09 02:15:01 PM
I_C_Weener

That moon cannot be allowed to fall into commie hands.

We must..not..have..a moon gap!!

www.smh.com.au
 
2006-03-09 02:15:58 PM
Kenshiko: lasers, satellites, ultrasound, breast cancer detection, MRIs, surgery technology, robots, Dopler, fire detectors, solar energy, and earthquake prediction

All right, but apart from those, what has NASA ever done for us?
 
2006-03-09 02:17:21 PM
bitteroldman: NASA had a program that I worked on. It was called HSCT. We were very close to making a 400 seat passenger jet that could fly above Mach II (and we were considering much faster flights), and do it quieter and with less fuel/emissions than a 747. Think about it. What if you could fly from LA to NY in 30 minutes at half the current price?

That's amazing! I had no idea that NASA was magic!

/No seriously, why don't we have these planes?
//Boeing could've stolen the designs and rolled it out sold a bajillion planes and tanked Airbus in the process
///I'm calling bravo sierra on the bitter, old, and former NASA employee
 
2006-03-09 02:19:23 PM
127.0.0.1

I think we have a new Fark Cliche:


I think that you're damn right. And I think that I'm gonna use it.
 
2006-03-09 02:20:33 PM
WayneKerr: And I think that I'm gonna use it.

and since it was a response to me - i get royalties.

deal w/ it.
 
2006-03-09 02:23:18 PM
Enceladus? I wouldn't drink the water there.

www.playle.com
 
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