This is the type of story that the obvious tag was invented for.

Well, that should be something of a deterrant.

/you bomb us, we put a bullet in your head


Wish America could keep it that simple.

you bomb us, we put a bullet in your head


Wish America could keep it that simple.

Apparently we like to give people control of our ports after they blow our shiat up.

you bomb us, we put a bullet in your head, then
you bomb us, we put a bullet in your head, then you bomb us, we put a bullet in your head, then you bomb us, we put a bullet in your head, then you bomb us, we put a bullet in your head, then you bomb us, we put a bullet in your head, then you bomb us, we put a bullet in your head, then you bomb us, we put a bullet in your head, then you bomb us, we put a bullet in your head, then you bomb us, we put a bullet in your head, then.....

willywanka: you bomb us, we put a bullet in your head, then
you bomb us, we put a bullet in your head, then you bomb us, we put a bullet in your head, then you bomb us, we put a bullet in your head, then you bomb us, we put a bullet in your head, then you bomb us, we put a bullet in your head, then you bomb us, we put a bullet in your head, then you bomb us, we put a bullet in your head, then you bomb us, we put a bullet in your head, then you bomb us, we put a bullet in your head, then.....


And the problem with that?? Better than, you bomb us, we invade some country that had nothing to do with it and then get stuck in the middle of a frigging civil war with no exit strategy and a spending deficit that's threatening to bankrupt our nation.

I have no problem with this.

alcoholic_entropy: And the problem with that??

What, a cyclical pattern of violence and bloodshed that extends into civilian populations, creating a deep-rooted animosity that can breed open hostility and terror for generations? Nothing, really.

Better than, you bomb us, we invade some country that had nothing to do with it and then get stuck in the middle of a frigging civil war with no exit strategy and a spending deficit that's threatening to bankrupt our nation.

Yeah, but jeez, talk about setting the bar low.

But but but but democracy brings peace and stability.

Why do the Israelis hate democracy?

Apparently we like to give people control of our ports after they blow our shiat up.


At least they won't have the menial task of keeping records. You know. The culture that gave us algebra has a hard time with them number things. Like finding out who gave certian people money to blow certain things up. But they don't do that so we don't have to worry. No way UAE would do anything bad. After all, besides the lack of records, they are a beacon of freedom, democracy and the free market in the Middle East.

/almost a straight face

Hello WWIII

1.Wash

2.Rinse

3.Repeat

Oh something relevant... I wonder which God has a bigger wang?

You kill us, we kill you. Everyone is happy. See they arn't thinking big enough. Small attacks just won't do. Stop the pissing contest and just freaking do it if you are going to do it.

NineInchNader Apparently we like to give people control of our ports after they blow our shiat up.

Nice troll.

Assasinating Palestine's new PM and a nickel will get you a nice hot cup of JACK SQUAT!!

In other news, a bear might crap in the woods.

So if the US millitary commits war crimes in Iraq (using cluster bombs in residential areas, torturing prisoners at Abu Gharib), President Bush should be hung?

Yep, sounds good.

maybe if we get lucky, there will only be one religious idiot left after they are all done. Seriously, we should just wall it off until they have totally wiped each other out. Then kill the surivors. Kinda like that George Carlin bit about getting all the muscle heads together and fueling a pay per view fight with whiskey and PCP.

Considering the Hamas guy who blew himself up just a few stories down while teaching Palestinians how to make bombs, and considering that something like 52% of Palestinians still support suicide bombings against Israeli civilians and only 17% strongly oppose them, then... well... yeah, fark them.

/danced in the streets on 9/11
//have killed or injured over 100 American citizens since the Intifadah began
///Jordan knew how to treat these illiterate fanatics, Black September

Killing individuals won't solve the problem, but what else can they do at this point, really?

Tenebreux, I'd say they're merely trying to protect their citizens from terrorist attacks from what has become a terrorist state. Arguably Palestine has always been a terrorist state, but when they elect an internationally recognized terrorist group to head their government, it's undisputable from that point.

You know... If you happen to be Ismail Haniyah, and Israel says something like that in public that just HAS to make your testes shrink up for a minute or two.

It's a tough decision to make, and I sure as heck wouldn't want to be the Israeli offical who had/has to make that call, but they don't really have a lot of options.

All those folks who claim that this is just a "a cyclical pattern of violence and bloodshed" should consider the options when a nailbomb rips 15 Israeli teenagers apart in some cafe in Tel Aviv:
1. Don't retaliate. Great... now what part of this is supposed to NOT encourage the badguys to continue killing your people? Because doing nothing means the badguys have no consequences to their actions, and just just sit back and comfortably be as terrible as they want. Rampant killings then ensue at an accelerated pace.

2. Retaliate. Do you risk continuing the cycle of bloodshed? I don't believe that's a realistic consideration, but it's certainly arguable. What's also arguable is that the every single time the badguys make a nasty terrorist attack they need to factor in "will this be worth the consequences"? This is certainly better than option #1.

If you weren't dealing with a group that has been deeply anti-semetic for sooooo long, and has had their culture intentionally engineered (by Yassar Arafat) to perpetuate that racism and hatred for generations then perhaps you'd have a 3rd option. That, however, is not the current case.

yeah, but in all fairness the israelis did crash airplanes into the palestinian towers

bbcrackmonkey

Right, because the USA and Israel electing war criminals as their leaders is so different...

(Sharon was found responsible by an Israeli court for the slaughter of civillians at Sabra and Shatila, Bush is responsible for the illegal invasion of Iraq and the thousands of civillians deaths that resulted)

mongbiohazard

Not to start anything, but I suspect that there are more than two options.

smokeymcpot

Oh something relevant... I wonder which God has a bigger wang?

It's the same god. A friend of mine has a theory that Yahwe/Jehova/Allah/God, whatever you want to call it, is the god of the pantheon whose responsibility it is to cull the world of sheep. He gets them to follow one of his three religions, then gets them to blow each other up.

The flaw is the amount of innocent bystanders that are becoming 'collateral damage'.

/believes in god
//believes he isn't the only god, he just tells his followers that
///not my god

DTanner, Sharon is in a coma now and no longer heads the Israeli government, in case you haven't been paying attention. He was found partially responsible by the Israeli court, because supposedly he should have known that the Lebanese Arab Christians would slaughter the people in the refugee camps.

And we can sit here and argue all day about the legality of the invasion of Iraq, which is a big grey area, but that would just pretty much be changing the subject in your favor since you would rather focus on political leaders you hate other than the fact that an internationally recognized terrorist group runs Palestine now.

I rather like the imposed logic..

"You're the guy in charge? Be in charge. BTW, you're *responsible* for the fella over there with the dynamite and the matches."

\ And keep your dog off my yard too

It's the same god.

Exactly! They all worship a singular creator. They really should be banding together to go after India. Those polytheists are the real problem ;)

Sabra and Shatila

My point is that terrorist leaders were elected the heads of all three states, yet the Palestinian leaders are the only ones singled out for condemnation. The double standard is sickening and is the single biggest reason for the continuation of violence in that area.

I have real, serious issues with the use of millitary personell for assasination.

In order to be effective a millitary had to be very good at doing two things. They had to know how to start killing, and they need to know how to stop killing. The stopping part is a lot harder than many people give it credit for - switching from trying to kill people to giving them aid and taking care of them once they surrender or the war is over. That requires a lot of training, and primarily relies on making the killing impersonal, so that there is minimal residual anger when hostilities cease. When it fails, the slaughter or torture of captives and civilians is often a consequence, lengthening hostilities and leading to more death.

The use of millitary personell against _personal_ targets undermines every aspect of this training. It teaches the soldiers that their purpose is revenge, and instructs them to take that vengance upon individuals.

That is not the work of an army. It is the work of thugs, and that is exactly what any army turned to those ends will become.

Ooops I meant bbcrackmonkey, stupid copy n paste.

Stefanwulf, military personell are used all the time to kill terrorists and terrorist leaders. If Israel assassinates Haniyah, they are just bumping off another Hamas terrorist leader. Same principle with the assassinations of Sheikh Yassin and Rantisi. It is a standard military procedure, especially when the terrorist leader you're killing is also the head of an enemy government that is continually attacking your country.

If you've got nukes, blackhawks and tomcats, you're a legitimate army defending your nation.

If you've got a donkey, some dynamite and a stick, you're a terrorist.

Dtanner My point is that terrorist leaders were elected the heads of all three states

LOL! What terrorist group did Bush and Sharon belong to before they got elected? Maybe the baseball team that Bush managed really terrorized their opponents? Go spew your verbal diarrhea somewhere else moron.

Anfalicious, you can have donkey and dynamite and still be a soldier as long as you use that donkey and dynamite to attack enemy military, it's just that Hamas chooses to eschew the whole "attacking the enemy military/government" thing and instead just blows up a falafel stand or a disco. That's what makes them terrorists.

bbcrackmonkey

Yeah, because obviously if you call me a "moron" that makes you right.

it's just that Hamas chooses to eschew the whole "attacking the enemy military/government" thing and instead just blows up a falafel stand or a disco. That's what makes them terrorists.

Whereas Israel fires missiles from helicopters into civilian areas to blow up cars containing a suspected terrorists. Or apartment buildings.

Am I the only person here who realizes the absolute idiocy of the entire Intifadah strategy so far on the Palestinian side? These are a bunch of morons who think the use of valuable ordinance and personell against a disco is a good operation. The entire point of fighting a guerrilla war is to kill enough enemy soldiers to discourage their occupation of your land. You aren't supposed to direct your attacks against the people who are going to vote on whether you get occupied or not.

Plus, the whole suicide bomb thing is sheer stupidity as well. These self-combusting dumbasses can't even figure out that explosives are not short-range weapons. They're too freakin stupid to actually take all that explosive, make an IED out of it, and blow up an Israeli tank. How many MILITARY checkpoints (targets) do these choads have to pass through in order to reach the disco or theatre or pizzaria that you they are supposed to blow up?

Nothing but a bunch of no-talent ass-felchers is what they are. Liable to have a grenade fight in a phone booth if they can take out a Jew.

bbcrackmonkey

I understand that it is done, that does not make it any less degrading to the military in my view. The fact that your assasination target is also a head of state is simply another reason that a military should _never_ be used to kill them.

Ideally, the situation could be resolved without assasination. Realistically, however, many governments will decide that they need to remove the individual. This is a very dangerous road to follow, and carries many snares of its own right - and I feel strongly that it should be kept entirely seperate from the millitary. When assasins are employed, they should never be used for roles that traditional soldiers play - especially occupation or peacekeeping.

The fact that Israel has made it into a standard procedure is exactly what I am condemning as a policy.

L.Darte
But but but but democracy brings peace and stability.

Only if you're not half-assed about it. Palestinian terrorists have a nasty habit of assassinating opposition candidates, leaving the candidacy roster short quite a few names. Democracy means that the electorate should be able to vote for their choice, but that doesn't mean much when their choices are eliminated for them in advance, especially if the winning candidates sanctioned the hits.

That said, there is one aspect of democracy (however broken) on which the Palestinians are about to get a crash course: fiscal consequences for one's actions. In this case, I speak of threats against Israel and ensuing reduced foreign aid.

PotVsKtl, they don't blow up suspected terrorists, they blow up terrorists. They're fighting a bunch of morons that are proud to be terrorists, and as such take no effort to hide the fact that they are members of Hamas.

And those aforementioned apartment buildings that Israeli helicopters fire missiles at, do they happen to be occupied by... oh I dunno.... terrorists?

Yeah, I know, sometimes, like with the notorious Hamas commander Selah Shehadah, you get a lot of collateral damage. These assholes like to surround themselves with children so that Israel won't assassinate them. Sometimes Israel goes and does it anyways.

Stefanwulf, America's military does that shiat all the time. Remember how we iced 4 Al-Qaeda members in Pakistan at the dinner meeting with a bunch of missiles fired from a drone a month ago? Remember how we assassinated a carload of Al-Qaeda members in Yemen with a drone Hellfire? Remember our attempts to kill Saddam in the opening day of the Iraq War?

I suppose I should point out that Russia does the exact same thing that America and Israel do as well?

Russia has used missiles, bombs, and soldiers to assassinate Chechen terrorists. When the Butcher of Beslan, Shamil Basayev, finally gets his comeuppance, I bet you it'll be courtesy of the Russian military. How do you think Aslan Maskhadov got killed? Russians sent a missile to his cellphone signal.

Anfalicious
If you've got nukes, blackhawks and tomcats, you're a legitimate army defending your nation.

If you've got a donkey, some dynamite and a stick, you're a terrorist.

If you target leaders and organizers in order to decrease the amount of casualties, you are a legitimate army defending your nation.

If you target civilians specifically to *increase* casualties, you are a terrorist.

Or are you saying Israel should start targetting "potential suicide bombers" the same way Hammas is targetting "potential Israeli soldiers," instead of just the leaders?

bbcrackmonkey

I certainly do. I also recall the text of Executive Order 11905, which in section 5(g) states:

'No employee of the United States Government shall engage in, or conspire to engage in, political assassination.'

This was important enough to be reiterated in 2982 in section 2.11 of Executive Order 12333, which reads:

'No person employed by or acting on behalf of the United States Government shall engage in, or conspire to engage in, assassination.'

I recall many instances where the US has pushed the limits or arguably outright violated these prohibitions. Because I remember these things and am aware that they have happened, however, does not in any way serve to justify them.

Insofar as the American and Russian millitaries have been turned into assassins, they have been misused and debased as well. To date, however, attempts to misuse the American military in this manner are still violations of the law, whereas the state of Israel has legtimized them in official policy.

Cripes. EO 12333 was 1982, not 2982.

// And that concludes today's lesson on the history of the 29th century.

Stefanwulf, I believe those Executive Orders prohibiting assassination were revoked by Bush shortly after 9/11.