No Such Agency

Sorry, only an M.Sc., in plant molecular biology. You got me there.

Well, I took Botany AND Zoology in college, so I'm an expert too!

Would Social Darwinism exist without Darwin? Probably not.

Then again, any excuse will serve a tyrant. Moreover, the methods of "Social Darwinism" have been employed in the agricultural industry for centuries with selective breeding of plants and animals. It is not a difficult stretch to suggest someone apply the same principle to humans, even without the theory of evolution.

Tainted1: something like an eye cannot be just papered over


ok lets look at this one.

tiny photoreceptor bundle such as on flagellates
tiny fluid pocket sensing vibrations

mustation puts fluid pocket right next to photoreceptors (or grows photoreceptors on edge of fluid pocket)

poof you go from lightd/dark sensing to directional light source sensitivity

I'll take your undeveloped universal law that was made a few hundred years ago and up you one Theory of gravity. Gravity grew up a little, learned that there are many things about gravity that the universal law of gravity doesn't touch on. Now on to Special Relativity.......

FishyFred

Newton's Law of Gravity is a mathematical equation. The theory of gravity describes how you we remain on the ground and don't go floating into space.

Thanks for reading the article. GG.

Tainted1

Funny thing is talking to rightnusts, your hear a lot of familiar arguments. For example, the flat earth society. Youd be surprised the number so shared bible quotes and logical fallacies you see coming from both groups.

/Yes, the flat earther are real.


DENY THE FLAT EARTH TRUTH IF YOU WILL, HERETIC!



Flat Earth science WILL be taught in the public schools! Jesus commands it!

Dead Farker Walken, you're embarrassing me. Please stop.

Dimensio

Then again, any excuse will serve a tyrant. Moreover, the methods of "Social Darwinism" have been employed in the agricultural industry for centuries with selective breeding of plants and animals. It is not a difficult stretch to suggest someone apply the same principle to humans, even without the theory of evolution.

You'd have to find that "missing link" between the two, though.

BAAHAHHAAHAH

Lehk
**
Tainted1: something like an eye cannot be just papered over
**

Um, I never said that, that was someone elses quote. Your preaching to the quoir there mister.

Dead Farker Walken: Would Social Darwinism exist without Darwin? Probably not.


Yeah, but that's like saying would fundamentalists exist without Christ?

Probably not, but I would still hold that Christianity has had a larger role in history than just producing semi-educated literalist nitwits.

Etchy333

-You could say evolution is happening in reverse. In the 'old days' having lousy eyesight practically guaranteed an early death. Nowadays you wear glasses or whatever so the bad eyesight gene is all over the place. Same with a lot of other medical issues that are now treatable but not curable, at least on a genetic level. I sometimes worry that the genetic defect load could have severe negative consequences for the future of mankind. Hope that doesn't make me a nazi ;-)...

Thanks for reading the article. GG.

The website that you referenced is not responding to me at this time, however it does appear that you are confusing "theory" with "law". In science, a "law" states an observed pattern of observation, while a "theory" attempts to explain the cause of observed phenomena. In many cases, theories exist to explain why laws are as they are. As such, Newton's Law of Universal Gravitation is not on par with scientific theories, as it merely generalizes the overall effect of gravity as a relationship between mass and distance without explaining why this gravitational force is caused by the masses in question. Moreover, it should be noted that Newton's Law of Universal Gravitation is now known to be false. Laws are no more certain in science than theories.

Obscure

Yeah, but that's like saying would fundamentalists exist without Christ?

Probably not, but I would still hold that Christianity has had a larger role in history than just producing semi-educated literalist nitwits

Sure, fundamentalist would exist. They'd invent some other person to take its place. Christ, Mohammed, Joseph Smith.. etc etc.

But yeah, I got your point. I'm not saying that that's all Evolution is about, but I don't doubt that it's a result of it.

Yeah, but a law is a theory that has just not been disproven yet.

In science, there are no absolutes.

Amigajoe: In the 'old days' having lousy eyesight practically guaranteed an early death.


I doubt it. People didn't read or drive -- the two reasons why most people "need" to wear glasses. As an ordinary hunter-gatherer, you could probably get by just fine with shiatty vision.

Dead Farker Walken: You understand that social Darwinism is NOT the same as biological Darwinism or even neo-Darwinism for that matter?

Social Darwinism has as much to do with in the biological kind as lightning has to do with a lightning bug.

I've been to something like one of these. You can go to the "Creationist Evidence Museum" and visit Dinosaur Valley State Park on the same field trip.

/Some formerly homeschooled kid

Dead Farker Walken:
(No Such Agency
Sorry, only an M.Sc., in plant molecular biology. You got me there.)

Well, I took Botany AND Zoology in college, so I'm an expert too!

Good thing I'm not the only person out there publishing research that totally supports evolution, huh? Shooting down MY edumacation doesn't make one iota of difference in this debate.

You're either a troll, or arguing from a position of such staggering ignorance that I can't even comprehend how you GOT to college. See, I can engage in pointless ad-hominem attacks too. Doesn't change the staggering evidence supporting evolutionary theory.

BEHOLD BEVETS!

nexea

Yes, haven't we gone over this already?!

Would Jihad exist without Islam? Come on. Social Darwinists use Evolution to legitimize racism just as islamic terrorist use Islam to justify Jihad.

Go Bevets go!

1. Can I please lead a "Scientifically Correct Tour" of that dude's church?

2. I've had it up to HERE with self-stroking christians who not only think they own a lock on morality, but who also think an atheist is incapable of it. Puh-leeze.

Which is better, being moral and looking out for your fellow man because you think it's the right thing to do, even though you don't believe you'll be rewarded for it, or being moral because you are scared shiatless that you will go to hell if you're not.

What kind of God would that be, if religious soicopath's all went to heaven because they clamped down on their evil tendancies out of pure self-preservation, and moral atheists all went to hell because they did well by their fellow man for the right reasons, but didn't worship an entity they had no reason to believe in.

I'll tell you, man, even if I knew for a fact that there was that kind of God in the universe, he sure as hell wouldn't be worthy of my worship. What kind of a dick would that God be, and what kind of hypocritical dark hearted dick would I be for worshipping him?

3. Going to bed.

Holy crap, who activated the Bevets routine. Quick, Call IT before it infects anymore files!!!!

It's nice that these children on these tours are being exposed to this 'wrong' school of thought. Because all you need to start with, is a question in your mind. That question will tumble around in your thoughts until you seek it's source; then, ideas and knowledge will become like a key to the lock on your mind. One by one the tumblers will click into place, until the lock comes free, up becomes down, and God transforms from creator to created.

species that do well tend not to evolve, or does so slowly. its the species that are next to extinction that evolves quickly because many of them die off and the ones with traits that keep them alive live on. thats why humans wont be evolving much at all any more. unless disease or war wipes out most of us.

Cripes, here we go.

Someone please state an alternative theory to evolution explaining the development and diversity of life on this planet. Don't just say "evolution has holes, so it must be wrong". Present an alternative.

I'm waiting.

No Such Agency

Naw, assuming he's being up front, he's just proof that there is such a thing as a waste of an educacion.

No Such Agency

You're either a troll, or arguing from a position of such staggering ignorance that I can't even comprehend how you GOT to college. See, I can engage in pointless ad-hominem attacks too. Doesn't change the staggering evidence supporting evolutionary theory.

I was joking with you. I haven't supported or condemned the Theory of Evolution yet. I got to college because I'm smart, probably smarter than you.

QuoteBot version 3.41 is now confirmed active in thread 1928552. Fark admins have opened flame support.

All calls will be answered in the order they are received.

I love this debate purely for its futility. Nobody that knows anything about the matter considers creationism an option (excluding the complete nutjobs like Behe and his DI cohorts). It honestly makes my day when I can 'debate' someone on the topic. Anyone with even the slightest training in bio or chem can talk circles around the average fundie. Look up the website 'pharyngula' for a thourough dissection of any ID arguments.

I always consult Steve Allen when dealing with epistemological issues.

leathermidget:

on average:
"Charter School" students are 1.5-2 years behind public school students.
"Home Schooled" students are 1-1.5 years behind public school students.

Do you have any source to back this up? Every study I've seen says that home schooled kids do very well. Take this for example:

Major findings include: the achievement test scores of this group of home school students are exceptionally high--the median scores were typically in the 70th to 80th percentile; 25% of home school students are enrolled one or more grades above their age-level public and private school peers

nexea: ou understand that social Darwinism is NOT the same as biological Darwinism or even neo-Darwinism for that matter?

Social Darwinism has as much to do with in the biological kind as lightning has to do with a lightning bug.


I know it's like throwing pearls to swine (this is Fark, after all).. but what the hey -- everyone here should read John Fowles' The French Leiutenant's Woman. It's not only a brilliant novel, but the whole theme of it is concerned with both (the biology theory of) Darwinism and Social Darwinism, and does an admirable and humorous job of showing how both ideas set the 19th century on fire....

I never thought of this before but I was wondering if there is some sort of fundie explanation for volcanos? Anyone know for real? I mean is it supposed to be some sort of septic sump pump from the bowels of hell perhaps? I bet some weirdo somewhere has an explanation that's hilarious.

Arnold T Pants

Do you have any source to back this up? Every study I've seen says that home schooled kids do very well. Take this for example:

Major findings include: the achievement test scores of this group of home school students are exceptionally high--the median scores were typically in the 70th to 80th percentile; 25% of home school students are enrolled one or more grades above their age-level public and private school peers

Thank you for posting that. I believe the entire world should know the intellectual superiority of homeschooling students.

I myself graduated high school at 15. I could not have done this in the slow, pointless quagmire of public school.

Obscure

-I think the guys with the sharpest vision would tend to be the best hunters, as well as the least likely to have a sabre-tooth tiger sneak up on them, etc.;) As an aside, I bet that women's sharper color vision evolved to help them pick the ripest fruits and recognize edible berries from poisonous ones, etc. I bought one of those green lasers not long ago, and read that at the same mW output a green laser is brighter because the human eye is most sensitive to the color green. Whaddaya want to bet that comes from the mostly green world our ancestors used to live in?

"What we need to do is teach good science and present both models and let students decide what model makes most sense," Jack said. "To do anything else is censorship."

Regardless of your stance on the subject, you gotta admit that makes sense.

And the creationist model is...

And the creationist model can be tested by...

*taps fingers waiting*

I got to college because I'm smart, probably smarter than you.

If you ever have to directly insult someone's intelligence in a debate, you've probably already lost.

Kyle5FP

"What we need to do is teach good science and present both models and let students decide what model makes most sense," Jack said. "To do anything else is censorship."
Regardless of your stance on the subject, you gotta admit that makes sense.

They did already dude. Back in the early 1900s. Science won. Now children are taught what is considered relevant and meaningful.

And if it didn't dawn on you already, the course of time for which certain genetic traits emerged is a much better DEBATE that might actually take a whole class hour to study. Meanwhile your creationism vs. darwin debate I'm afraid will only take 15 seconds if the children aren't morons. That's the problem with your idea.

"My contention is evolution kills people," Jack said in an interview. "It's not that evolutionists don't have morality, it's that evolution can offer no morality.

"Ideas have consequences. If you believe you came from slime there is no reason not to, if you can, get away with anything."

Except for maybe reciprocity? Basic social order? Revenge, if nothing else? Things that exist without the support of religion? Just hilarious.

btw, what do you creationist think races are anyways. you also think everyone came from the same people. how did races come about? this is also evidence of evolution. groups of people spread out across the world and visual and other change happened in isolation of the other groups. not a new species. but if humans lived in total isolated groups long enough they would be different enough that they would be different species.

You'd have to find that "missing link" between the two, though.

I do not understand this comment. Are you attempting to argue a point?

Dead Farker Walken

**Well, I took Botany AND Zoology in college, so I'm an expert too!**

There's a big difference between taking classes and learning whats in them. If your asleep.....

FishyFred

If you ever have to directly insult someone's intelligence in a debate, you've probably already lost.

What debate? I'm not in any debate. You think I'd involve myself in the intellectual quagmire that is Creation v. Evolution? My goodness, no.

I myself graduated high school at 15. I could not have done this in the slow, pointless quagmire of public school.

Ah... there's the rub. I'm so sorry you were abused by your parents and sent into the world so poorly equipped to separate truth from fiction.

Amigajoe: -I think the guys with the sharpest vision would tend to be the best hunters, as well as the least likely to have a sabre-tooth tiger sneak up on them,


I agree, but just being the best hunter doesn't mean that you are the best at surviving.

Two major things drive that evolution are
1) ability to pass on genes to offspring
2) isolated gene pools