Thats Awesome, Ebay needs to be spanked anyway for their fake crap they let get sold. More Companies should follow in the footsteps of Tiffany's!

farkeruk: How much do the skins cost that go into these bags? How much do the craftsmen cost per hour? How many hours does it take to produce one?


It takes a tailor something like 18 hours to make one Birkin bag and the material cost depends on what you want, seeing as how you can customize the bag to your needs. The more rare the skin or fabric, the more money it's going to cost.

It's the "family tradition of being brand slaves" that gets me. My family traditions are about things being passed down like the family recipe for pavlova, the "Mr Snowman" we pull presents out of at christmas. Things that we are about, that I was raised with. Things that can be done in a spirit of joy and shared memories, none of which have much cost, because that's not what they are about.

Considering my grandfather was a tailor who made Birkin bags until he died in 1990, I think it might not be more of "family tradition of being brand slaves," than just a tribute, but hey, what do you know seeing as how you don't know me and are really quick to point out how repulsed you are by my personal spending habits.

The idea of having a tradition that burdens people with such a cost for something as vacuous as a $12,000 purse is repulsive to me. Do you think about what this will do to your children? How about quitting it now, and letting them not have to deal with the responsibility of carrying on the tradition of balancing buying a purse with buying a car?

I don't know anyone in my family who is burdened by it. And as for children...we can thank brain/ovarian cancer for causing a hysterectomy 3 years ago at the age of 20. So, don't really have to worry about that. And even if I could have children, they wouldn't really have to worry about it either. Some of us are lucky like that.

What I don't get is who or what gives permission to be holier-than-thou about the way people spend their money. Am I causing you any harm by buying an expensive handbag. Are the 3 other women who said that they are waiting for the same bag in this thread causing you any harm? Do I pay your paycheck, mortgage, other bills and might run the risk of not paying them because I decide to buy a handbag? Are we married and I'm spending your money? Do I even know you that it's any of your concern about what I do with the money I've been given?

Like I said before, you really can't judge me for how I spend my money unless you can prove that every single purchase you have ever made has been sensible and for practical reasons. If you can prove that every way you've ever spent your money has involved common sense, then you can judge, but I'm guessing that's not going to happen. By the way, odds are you spend your money on something I might find repulsive, so somehow, that makes us even.

to comment a bit on the Hermes bag, the cost is the name and labor, A birkin bag is only allowed to be produced by one employee at a time, and he or she may not touch another bag until the one that is started is completed. They take around a week to produce usually. So basically you paid for that persons un divided attention to your bag for that week and what ever the cost of the bag is (usually expensive leather or some animal skin) Hermes is doing very well globally despite that fat cow oprah saying they are racist.

to get to the point. I am seeing a lot of harrassment because some people have a history in the family on buying luxury goods. Brands like Louis Vuitton, Hermes, Gucci have flourished in the past few years, but they are old companies and it is hard to imagine that there are families that have been customers to these stores for decades. Nothing wrong with that, what you are seeing is that rich people tend to stay rich. If you can afford 6k bags, you probably arnt likely to lose your fortune in get rich quick schemes, bad investments and impulse purchases.

Let the people spend money as they see fit. A 6k purse is not smarter or dumber then a 35k car. A 10 dollar purse works as well, and a Toyota Corolla will get you to work every day just as your 35k Ininfiti G35 sports coupe will.

I might even argue that in 5 years time the purse will still hold more value.

Personally, I absolutely refuse to buy clothing or accessories that advertise. I can see no reason why I should pay more for something just because it has a brand name on it. In all fairness, they should be paying ME for the free advertising and sell the item at a lower cost than usual. Ha ha. That being said, I *will* wear their unmarked products, because they are usually well made and classic.

AND! Leave the girls alone for buying their 12k purses, jeez. There's a 10k hot dog on eBay for cryin out loud. If you don't agree with it, fine, but keep it to yourself. To each their own!

autothing
Just imagine if you bought on Amazon and got a fraudulent DVD (copy). Just because it's a bootleg doesn't mean Amazon is exempt from the illegality of the situation -- so goes for eBay.

The difference is, these people aren't buying from eBay directly, they're buying from individual sellers who are using ebay as a marketplace, and unless you can come up with a way for eBay to verify the authenticity of all the merchandise being sold, this is going to continue. Who Tiffany's SHOULD go after is the people selling the knockoffs as legitimate items.

phaedra, farkeruk:

threadjack, party of 2- your table is ready...
//loved how easily phaedra "slipped" how she has a Birkin Bag into thread..

"YAY ME...i've been waiting, like, forEVER to find a post where I can stealthily let the WORLD know I HAVE A BIRKIN BAG....repeat...HELLO EVERYONE...I HAVE A BIRKIN BAG!!11"
-phaedra

nigol: phaedra, farkeruk:

threadjack, party of 2- your table is ready...
//loved how easily phaedra "slipped" how she has a Birkin Bag into thread..

"YAY ME...i've been waiting, like, forEVER to find a post where I can stealthily let the WORLD know I HAVE A BIRKIN BAG....repeat...HELLO EVERYONE...I HAVE A BIRKIN BAG!!11"
-phaedra


Cute.

phaedra,

**blushes**
awww shucks, just trying to help you spread the word ;)

Tiffanys should suck it up...i'm sure they make enough profit selling their overpriced baubles to let a few falsies slide by. I should know...I have a few pieces of their jewelry. I REPEAT...I HAVE A FEW PIECES OF JEWELRY FROM TIFFANYS!!!!!!I AM WELL-OFF PERSON WHO CAN AFFORD TO OWN JEWELRY FROM TIFFANYS!!!!I AM A GOOD PERSON FOR OWNING SOME JEWELRY FROM TIFFANYS!!! I WILL PROBABLY LIVE LONGER, HAVE BETTER SEX, AND ENJOY MY FULL YET PERKY BREASTISES BEING FULLER AND PERKIER LONGER BACAUSE OF THIS AFOREMENTIONED JEWELRY FROM TIFFANYS!

Original Gamer: Funny to see you making an argument about spending way more than an item is actually worth. I wonder if you took the development and mass production costs of one of your typical blockbuster games (or that PSP you're holding in your profile pic), gave it a 100% mark up to account for a reasonable profit and then took that figure and divided it by the number of games/systems actually produced/sold, if it'd be anywhere close to the retail price you pay for such games and systems. Chances are the cost per game, accounting for both development and production is likely , is likely less than $5 given how many copies of a game are actually sold.
Face it, you and I both know that you're paying a highly inflated price for those items, just as the women on this thread are paying a highly inflated price for those handbags. You're both paying for a luxury items and quite frankly, what you're really paying for is what you see as the creativity going into the production of those items, not a point for point recap of materials and labor. As such, I have no problem with either of you paying money for such things. Just be honest about the fact that you have your own addiction to buying essentially useless, rediculously overpriced items of your own.

Or you can continue to spout off on that hypocritcal pseudo-moral high ground while you continue to shell out $50+ on a 5" plastic disk that cost less than $5 to make.

matt2891: actually the psp he's holding is sold at a loss. Most game hardware is sold at a loss. The companies make it up in the games.

Anyway, man people are sure pissed that someone people like to spend their money on luxuries that aren't what they would want. Yeah that seems to be the issue. It's the someone is spending a fortune on something they want. Now if it was someone getting a hot car, that would be okay. Even though that 10K accent or kia would get you from point a to point b just as easily.

oh and on topic, I don't like ebay, but I still don't see how they could shut down every fake auction. They certainly can't inspect everything.

/doesn't own expensive handbags
//drives a ford escort
///only gaming system is a nintendo 64
////still sees nothing wrong with someone who can afford those expensive things buy them. Now if you're putting yourself into debt for status.....

Rosalea: Ok, I'll give you that, about consoles. However, like you said, they make it up in the games. And also, we seem to be on agreement that one person's luxury is another person's waste of money. Hi-Def. Televisions may certainly be nice, but having seen them for myself, I don't see the point in shelling out anywhere from $100-$300 extra on one. However, if someone else sees something worthwhile in them and wants to spend thier own money on them, then fine by me. The same with games, expensive ass hand bags, or anything else. I'm not so much railing against his excess, as I'm railing against his blindingly stupid hypocricy.

BTW, Rosalea, I own a 14k kia. Nice little hatchback, roomy for it's size, affordable and pretty good gas mileage.

/happy customer

BigBen:
I think this more of why they are pissed. Ebay knows which auctions are fakes in some cases, but looks the other way because they want their fees.

E-Bay's making millions and not doing shiat all to stop fraud and because of that they should be sued.

Funnily enough, I just tried to do a search for "fraud" under eBay help, but their help database is offline at the moment.

I can't believe people are so wrapped up in how others spend their money. I own 300+ games and atleast a dozen video game systems. Plus I update my computer often so I can play the newest PC games. I have easily spent more then $12,000. You want a $12k purse and have the money, go for it. Just cut back where it's not important to you and you'll be okay. I never eat out and I own a Geo Metro.

Also, I hope Tiffany wins.

A fool and his/her money...

stfu tiffany's, talk to me harry winston



all my shi+ is fake. looks the same and I lose it/get sick of it/have it stolen all the time anyway.

I very rarely use ebay anymore because of the volume of scams and ripoffs on there. Most of my puchases are well under $50 now because the place has turned into a friggen cesspool in many areas.

Wanna buy a top of the line new cell phone? You're better off just throwing your money away in the street than buying off of ebay. Interested in any hot new electronics (xbox 360, new digital cameras, etc), forget it.

In my experience with them, Ebay is full of fakes, knockoffs, pirated software and DVDs, etc. And they don't give a damn because they can't police the entire site (and because they don't want to because it would cut into their revenue).

I hope Tiffany's wins this lawsuit...

N.

peteboyd:

>eBay probably wont turn the users information over until there is
>a lawsuit, so this is just the start so they can subpoena the individuals
> information and then sue them too (or at least have a Sherrif go
> knocking/kicking on some doors).

Er, no. eBay will hand over any info you want if you have a uniform and a badge. You just ask for it. No supoenea required.

I bought a few things from ebay. Most were alright. They were dog leashes - how can you fake that?
Anyway, I got some ram from some guy. When I received them one stick was fine and the other was fried. I could actually see the damage. I emailed him back and he told me the canada post had insurance for that. Right. The damage obviously didn't happen in transit.

And another thing. I've noticed most things have heavily inflated shipping charges. Makes it not worth it at all. The price ends up being the same as if I bought the item in a store - new.

Last thing I bought there was in 2004.

Audioboxer
It's simple really, there has to be some responsibility somewhere.

The responsibility should entirely be Tiffany's. They have the ability to browse eBay auctions just like everyone else, and if they find an auction that they think is selling knock-offs, they can report it to the authorities. Ebay, at its heart is just a glorified communication system. Saying eBay is at fault is like saying that the phone company is at fault if someone plans a crime over the phone.

The question then remains, are the customers being duped or do they want legitimate knock-offs. Ebay should be protecting people from being duped, and also not allowing knock-offs. ebay should have some sort of monitoring... hell Ebay should allow some sort of actual contact with a real person for that matter should the need arise.

Doing those things cost extra money. Would some costomers be willing to pay higher listing fees so that those services could be provided? Some yes, some no. No one is forcing anyone to use eBay. Caveat Emptor is a perfectly valid form of business, as long as the costomers are made aware of it. Ebay has no responsibility to protect me from being duped unless I'm paying them for that.

Otherwise I could technically rent out a space in my office for some asians to come and peddle fake Dooney & Burke bags and try not to have any liability for them.

If you rented out the space to them knowing full well what they were going to be using it for, than you would be liable, however if all you did was rent out the space to some guys that told you they were doing something legal, and you had no solid evidence to say otherwise, than in a just world you wouldn't be held liable.

I'm sorry that your mommy deprived you as a child, but get over it.
For the record, I would consider anyone who buys something that's marked up 100x over its manufacturing and labor costs, just because it has a specific brand name on it, to be deprived of a proper education.

I'm not one of those people who criticize other people for spending money on luxury goods, but damn, $12K for such an ugly bag. I googled "birkin" and when I saw the pictures of the bag, I was so underwhelmed and disappointed that I feel sorry for whoever shelled that kind of money, even if it were dispposeable cash. It's just so damned ugly!

eBay will lose.

Someone above suggested eBay's EULA (end user license agreement) gets them off the hook for this. Nope, not a chance.

A EULA is a commercial agreement. Ebay is being accused of fraud, Fraud is violation of the law. The law supersedes civil business agreements. A business agreement that breaks the law or facilitates breaking the law is not a binding agreement. No matter what eBay has people sign or agree to, eBay cant enforce an agreement that violates the law.

The bottom line: If Tiffany's can prove that eBay knowingly allowed fake merchandise to be sold through their site, then eBay can be held liable for damages. As a number of posters have confirmed, eBay typically ignores a buyer's report of counterfeit goods. Ignoring such reports is the big deal that could put eBay in a lot of hot water.

Of course, eBay does shut down auctions and sellers who are reported by the rights holder (Tiffanys in this case). But thats not what Tiffanys is bothered by. Theyre bothered that eBay doesnt shut down counterfeit sellers or auctions reported by other buyers. There is a good reason eBay doesnt shut down sellers based on a single (non-rights holder) user report. This is because it would open their service to Massive Abuse. Anyone could buy anything from anyone and cry Counterfeit. Competitors could shut down each other, power sellers with 99% feedback could be shut down with a single complaint.

eBay will (almost certainly) lose this case. Sure, it will take awhile to wind through the courts, but eBay doesnt have a leg to stand on. Users reported counterfeit goods, eBay ignored them, case closed. So eBay will now have to come up with some massive shift in their business model to take user-reports of counterfeit goods into account without opening the system to massive abuse. This will not be easy.

Legally speaking, I believe eBay screwed themselves 5 or so years ago. They had an easy out from this situation, but really blew it. They could have tried to use the common carrier provisions of the law, wherein phone companies, ISP's, shipping companies, etc. cannot be held liable for crimes perpetrated or communicated through their systems. You cant sue UPS because some idiot shipped your stolen goods through their system.

The convention wisdom is that eBay blew their chance to be a common carrier when they banned whole categories of goods (firearms, un-politically correct Nazi memorabilia, etc...). Because when they started banning categories, they began actively monitoring their system.

UPS doesn't open packages and inspect the contents, and the phone company doesn't monitor conversations for illegal activity, but eBay DOES do this.

Its one thing to ban reported fraud, its another to actively monitor the system for goods eBay doesnt think should be sold. I think the tremendously stupid decision to actively monitor auctions was driven by political leanings of the founder. I probably agree with man of his political leanings, but it was still massively stupid of eBay to actively monitor the system.

I'm not sure where this lawsuit is coming from. On the one hand, Tiffany's has a point that their stuff is being counterfeited and sold through eBay. However, as RandomRandom pointed out, eBay has a mechanism through which the RIGHTS HOLDER can have auctions cancelled. If Tiffany's is worried about this cutting into their name or profits, they should just monitor the site themselves and bring eBay's attention to any potentially fraudulent auctions.

I myself found several obviously ripoff auctions for Anthony Robbins products, and I began the process to report them to eBay and was informed I had to be the rights-holder of the item in question. I simply went to Anthony Robbin's website, found their corporate contact info, and forwarded the item #'s of the auctions in question to their legal department. Subsequently the auctions were shut down. Pretty easy process, I think, and it will likely be the existence of that process that will get eBay off the hook in this case.