Do you have adblock enabled?
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Iwon)   Red Sox boy genius Theo Epstein ends 10-week vacation, returns to Boston. Heard mumbling something about morans letting Johnny Damon go to Evil Empire   (sports.iwon.com ) divider line
    More: Followup  
•       •       •

4399 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Jan 2006 at 10:08 AM (10 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



82 Comments     (+0 »)
 


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | » | Newest | Show all

 
2006-01-20 08:47:46 AM  
Hip Hip Hooray!!!!!!... I can't understand why they let him walk in the first place!
 
2006-01-20 08:47:48 AM  
Apparently the "Boy Genius" is just one of the idiots seeing as how he can't spell moron.
 
2006-01-20 08:52:13 AM  
Crackhead Ben: he can't spell moron.

oh jeez not this shiat again
/who keeps linking to f'n iwon.com???
 
2006-01-20 08:56:06 AM  
Unsilent Majority
who keeps linking to f'n iwon.com???

Some moran.

/Go USA!!
//kidding
 
2006-01-20 08:59:15 AM  
/got the joke
//was just raining on submitter's parade
///GO YANKEES!
 
2006-01-20 08:59:28 AM  
submitter: Heard mumbling something about morans letting Johnny Damon go to Evil Empire

No, I'm sure he'd actually agree with this move. Aging, slowing centerfielder who can't throw just isn't worth the money he was asking.

Hmm, aging, slowing centerfielder who can't throw: Bernie Williams much?

BTW, Brian Cashman is by far the most overrated GM in baseball
 
2006-01-20 09:02:15 AM  
Cashman retrieves Theo Voodoo doll from storage
 
2006-01-20 09:03:28 AM  
Good move for teh Sox. What do you Yankee bastards think of this Johnny Damon sellout, anyways?
 
2006-01-20 09:07:07 AM  
HaywoodJablonski: BTW, Brian Cashman is by far the most overrated GM in baseball

Prove it. Cashman is one of the best in the business. He's done a fine job fixing the Yankees holes in CF and the bullpen. He's committed to making the team younger and working from within with guys like Wang and Cano.

Damon is aging but still brings it with the bat. I also wouldn't be SHOCKED, if by next year he's roaming RF and they bring in Jones, Hunter, or work from within with Melky in CF. Sheff's contract is up, and unless he's coming back as a DH he'll be gone to somewhere else to get his 500 home runs.

Damon wasn't ideal, he was just the best choice out there.
 
2006-01-20 09:10:48 AM  
Crackhead Ben: Prove it.

how do you prove an opinion
/have you been stuffing your face with retarted-O's again?
//who couldn't be a good gm with an open checkbook
 
2006-01-20 09:12:00 AM  
Crackhead Ben: Prove it.

Prove it? Just look at how much they've spent for no championships the last 3 years. Marvel at how he continues to sign old, injury-prone pitchers to bulky contracts. Be amazed at how his once rich farm system has been dwindled down to table scraps.

I really don't have to prove this, but having lived in NYC for a long time, I don't expect to be able to permeate your Yankee skull with any actual logic and reasoning
 
2006-01-20 09:15:14 AM  
FINNALY someone made a good decision in Beantown. The post-season shennanigans makes me wonder how the Sox will be playing this summer.

Larry Lucchino is an idiot.
 
2006-01-20 09:22:09 AM  
Sorry if that came off too harsh.

I really hate that Cashman is considered good because he has double to triple the budget of most other teams
 
2006-01-20 09:24:49 AM  
I love it when fans refer to players by nicknames, like they're neighbors or something.
 
2006-01-20 09:27:06 AM  
Being from N.E. and having quite a bit of experience listening to Johnny Damon talk on radio and other media outlets I can tell you all with complete confidence that it is he, Johnny Damon, that is a moron. Dumb as a stump is he... Yankee fans, prepare to be stupified by his unadulterated foolishness for four years. BTW: Sox fan, and I don't hate the Yankees.
 
2006-01-20 09:30:28 AM  
HaywoodJablonski: Prove it? Just look at how much they've spent for no championships the last 3 years. Marvel at how he continues to sign old, injury-prone pitchers to bulky contracts. Be amazed at how his once rich farm system has been dwindled down to table scraps.

Can't just blame Cashman, Steinbrenner does a lot of things on his own.

Let's see Randy Johnson was Steinbrenner's doing. Mussina wasn't injury prone when he was signed. Kevin Brown was the Dodgers doing. Okay so... you lost there.

The once rich farm system. Yeah... Brad Halsey did so well in Arizona. Pena is the only good player we've lost out on. And despite all the biatching people do about the Yankee farm system... Cano was #2 in the RotY voting and lead the league in rookie BA and baseball in Away BA. Wang went 8-5 with a 4.02 ERA. Both those guys came out of the farm system and did pretty well I'd say.

As for how much they've spent, well money doesn't equal championships. Look how much the Mets have spent to not even make the playoffs? Also let's not forget. Sheffield was a Steinbrenner contract (Cashman was pushing for Vlad...). A-Rod was signed by Texas for that ridiculous amount of money. And there's a few guys like Jeter and Matsui who make more through merchandise than they get paid. Sure Bernie and Posada are overpaid, but remember they also got their contracts after the 2000 season when the team just won three straight WS titles.

You've gotta give Cashman credit for dealing with Steinbrenner's temper tantrums, all-star egos, and guys who push you to pay just because it's the Yankees. Not to mention the media frenzy surrounding the city.

Meanwhile, compare him to Epstein. The genius who let O-Cabs go for Renteria. The guy who couldn't keep Pedro in Beantown. Face it, he got lucky as hell that the 2004 Sox won the series and goes down in history for being a genius. He's just lucky. And hell they'll need all the luck they can get this year without a SS or CFer in place. Not to mention the entire pitching staff is depending on Schilling's ankle to hold up and the bullpen depends on how Foulke comes back from his injuries. Though I guess he's better than the idiot who traded your star prospect SS for Mike Lowell, then got rid of Mueller, let Damon walk, and almost traded Manny.
 
2006-01-20 09:40:58 AM  
*sigh*

1) I don't give him credit for putting up with Steinbrenner. That just proves he's good at being a biatch. Plus I'm sure he's crying all the way to the bank for that abuse.

2) When your personnel decisions are not constrained by money, that means you can sit back and say: who's the best player out here? Can we afford him? OK, let's get him.

3) Fat Toad

4) That Cuban failure, I forget his name

5) I'm not a Boston fan, and I'm not defending Theo.

6) Getting rid of Pedro was probably a good move, as he's past his prime and injury prone. Don't worry, he'll be a Yankee soon enough.
 
2006-01-20 09:48:17 AM  
HaywoodJablonski: 4) That Cuban failure, I forget his name

Which one...there were a few...
-----

And Cashman is overrated, any GM can build a team with an unlimited payroll and an owner that is willing to buy anything to win.

Give me a GM that has to cut costs and still wins or a GM from a small market team.

John Schuerholz is the best GM in the game.
 
2006-01-20 09:50:39 AM  
bulldg4life: Which one...there were a few...

And, oddly enough, they both helped the White Sox win the WS last year...
 
2006-01-20 09:51:20 AM  
HaywoodJablonski: 1) I don't give him credit for putting up with Steinbrenner. That just proves he's good at being a biatch. Plus I'm sure he's crying all the way to the bank for that abuse.

Easier said than done, ask Billy Martin... if he didn't kill himself after dealing with that man for so long (j/k). It's hard not to be a biatch to the guy who owns the team. And putting up with Steinbrenner means working out these Randy Johnson trades and working around these Gary Sheffield signings that are done without Cashman's consent.

2) When your personnel decisions are not constrained by money, that means you can sit back and say: who's the best player out here? Can we afford him? OK, let's get him.

Of course he's constrained by money, that was the whole reason they didn't pick up Carlos Beltran... and everyone figured Beltran was destined to wear pinstripes. You can tell looking at recent signings that the Yankees have moved away from the big contracts of 2001 that they gave guys like Moose and Giambi. The contracts are still big, but face it, if you're a baseball player, you're gonna hold out for more money from the Yankees. If the Yankees really need that spot, you know they have the cash to pay. The Yankees NEEDED a CF, which drove up Damon's price.

3) Fat Toad

Irabu, everyone makes mistakes. And the Yankees weren't the only team burned on big name Japanese pitcher who come to the US and fail.

4) That Cuban failure, I forget his name

Contreras? I don't blame Cashman for this one. I blame Mel. Somehow the White Sox were able to get this guy to pitch well. He had talent, but none of the Yankees coaches knew how to use him.

6) Getting rid of Pedro was probably a good move, as he's past his prime and injury prone. Don't worry, he'll be a Yankee soon enough.

A past his prime Pedro is still better than 90% of the pitchers out there. He's a big game veteran pitcher. Too many baseball fans seem to think that after the age of 30 a player's career is over. Clearly guys like Clemens, Johnson, Schilling, Wells, Cone, etc have proved that theory wrong. I'm sure a lot of Red Sox fans were missing Pedro when they had no real ace to lead the rotation. And I'd be shocked if the Yankees pick him up at the end of his contact with the Mets. Though if he's still pitching well then, why not? He's got nasty stuff and if he can still bring it... no reason why not. I'm sure BoSox fans said the same thing about Clemens though in 1997... 4 Cy Young award and 2 WS rings later...
 
2006-01-20 10:11:33 AM  
Ya, like itll help

/this year will suck for em
//why jonny
///well, at least i gots my cardinals
////Housewarming party...octoberish....our place
 
2006-01-20 10:12:32 AM  
bulldg4life: And, oddly enough, they both helped the White Sox win the WS last year...

And there's no Yankee fan in the World that would call El Duque a "cuban failure" that man came up HUGE for us so many times. He's not the BEST pitcher ever, but he's a big game pitcher, can pitch his way out of a bad spot, and he's entertaining to watch.
 
dly
2006-01-20 10:13:23 AM  
All this means for boston is 2nd place.
 
2006-01-20 10:16:36 AM  
Cheering for the Yankees is like going to Las Vegas and hoping that the house wins.

That is all.
 
2006-01-20 10:18:03 AM  
Now We're Gonna Demolish the Stupid Yankees!*

*(...please God, bring this slapdash attempt at a team together to at least save some face this season...and damn Johnny Damon to Hell...)
 
2006-01-20 10:18:20 AM  
"Mussina wasn't injury prone when he was signed." True, but, he hasn't thrown the same since he was hit in the face/eye in Baltimore. He had the stuff to be a 20 game winner before that, but, lost his nerve.
 
2006-01-20 10:18:53 AM  
The Evil Empire is run like a plantation. You know what I'm talking about.
 
2006-01-20 10:19:21 AM  
bulldg4life: HaywoodJablonski: 4) That Cuban failure, I forget his name

Which one...there were a few...


Hernandez wasn't a failure, and they were too impatient with Contreras. Contreras was the best pitcher in the 2nd half this last year on the World Series winner.

That Damon contract couldn't have been done by a team without a crapton of money that can eat the back end of the contract -- in two years he's going to be a lesser version of what Bernie was this last year, at the low low price of $13mil per year. If they move him to a corner outfielder spot for a past-prime Jones or Hunter (who already has slowed down), it's even worse.

Not signing Damon will hurt the Red Sox this year, when Damon will likely still be productive. In a year or two though, they'll be glad they didn't pay that price for him.
 
2006-01-20 10:20:40 AM  
I work for the Red Sox.

So I am really getting a kick really .

Some of you guys are very good at making it sound like you know what you are talking about.

But trust me.... You don't.

I think you just want to make yourself sound smart, when in reality you dont know what you are talking about.

This is how bad info gets passed around.

If you dont know about the topic....Dont make yourself sound like you do.

Cuz some Farkers belive anything they hear.
 
2006-01-20 10:21:10 AM  
*sigh* oh boy, another reason for Boston fans to expose themselves as the bitter know it alls that they are.

Your team is done, will not even be in the division race this year. You'll be chasing the Yankees and Jays by June, and mathmatically eliminated by mid-August.
 
2006-01-20 10:27:24 AM  
Jose and El Duque weren't equal to the billing and money given to them straight out of Cuba.

Then again, there were teams lined up around the block to sign either one of them.
 
2006-01-20 10:28:18 AM  
I personally do not like the yankees. Damon was cool, now he is not. End of thread....
 
2006-01-20 10:32:06 AM  
bulldg4life: Jose and El Duque weren't equal to the billing and money given to them straight out of Cuba.

You have NO idea what you're talking about do you?

El Duque only made maybe 1-3mill for the Yanks, which in baseball is NOTHING. And let's not forget his postseason pitching which saved the Yankees countless numbers of times. 1999 ALCS?

Contreras made like 5mill his first year with the Yankees, and the team never gave him a chance, look how big he came up for the White Sox this year.
 
2006-01-20 10:32:11 AM  
Welcome back Theo, hope while you were away you learned how to play centerfield cause the teams needs you.
 
2006-01-20 10:32:35 AM  
Go Orioles in.... 2008!!!
 
2006-01-20 10:39:32 AM  
Let me see if I can summarize the pro-Cashman arguments:
1) The mistakes the Yankees have made are not Cashman's fault, but rather Steinbrenner, Stottlemyre, etc.
2) The success the Yankees have had is due to Cashman, and not a $200M payroll.
Consider me skeptical.
/Tigers fan
//yeah, I know they suck
 
2006-01-20 10:41:59 AM  
Crackhead Ben: El Duque only made maybe 1-3mill for the Yanks, which in baseball is NOTHING. And let's not forget his postseason pitching which saved the Yankees countless numbers of times. 1999 ALCS?

Yes

He's so important to the Yankees that he doesn't even pitch for them anymore.

9-3 with a 2.51 era in the postseason out of 16 starts is pretty good. However, as an overall pitcher, meh.

look how big he came up for the White Sox this year.

Again, we were discussing the abilities of Cashman, and you mention how they didn't give a pitcher a chance and he did good somewhere else.

That doesn't help your point.
 
2006-01-20 10:42:51 AM  
www.roberthegyes.com

Welcome back.
 
2006-01-20 10:53:54 AM  
Anybody else think this whole thing was a work? Even after he 'resigned,' Theo had a big hand in their off season. However, since he had no official status with the club, it allowed him to sneak away from the spotlight and do what he loves most: making deals.

Also, now that he was no longer the general manager, it allowed the Sox to get rid of Renteria and shop Clement around, his two big free agent acquisitions last season. Since Theo was 'gone,' it didn't look like he was admitting to a mistake. Everybody could chalk it up to big bad Larry Lucchino, even though getting rid of those guys might be the correct thing to do. The whole process allowed Theo to take a backseat in the public eye and get rid of some mistakes, while saving face.
 
2006-01-20 10:55:29 AM  
H31N0US
Your team is done, will not even be in the division race this year. You'll be chasing the Yankees and Jays by June, and mathmatically eliminated by mid-August.

And your post-season meltdown will be particularly gratifying to watch... again.

/NY Yankees... not particularly useful against an insurgency
 
2006-01-20 10:55:58 AM  
www.ele.uri.edu
 
2006-01-20 10:56:29 AM  
bulldg4life: Again, we were discussing the abilities of Cashman, and you mention how they didn't give a pitcher a chance and he did good somewhere else.

That doesn't help your point.


No, we were discussing the fact that Cashman knew what he was doing when he signed those guys. Steinbrenner was the moron who traded Contereras for Loazia.

Cashman takes the blame for a lot of Steinbrenner and the Tampa office's boneheaded moves. Part of his new contract is that he has a lot more control. And if you look at the moves he's made on the off season, the feel like Cashman moves. Though I think next off season is when you'll see him really shine.
 
2006-01-20 10:56:41 AM  
AuntofDogface: Larry Lucchino is an idiot.

Needs to be repeated.

I honestly believe that this off-season was a trainwreck.
 
2006-01-20 10:57:50 AM  
What is the Yankees rotation right now? Johnson, Mussina, Pavano, Wright and Wang? I think that rotation is one or two injuries away from sending the Yankees into a tailspin. Signing Damon solves an immediate need, but I personally think that this team is a far cry from the teams that won all those World Series in the 1990s. Those teams were built on pitching, good defense, and timely hitting. This team will mash a lot of home runs, score a lot of runs, but won't win close games. I predict an 85-90 win season, with the Red Sox taking the AL East by three games.
 
2006-01-20 10:58:45 AM  
Regarding Cashman...

I was under the impression that Cashman and the New York office built that last Yankee mini-dynasty through their efforts in the farm system (Jeter, Posada, Williams, Rivera, Pettite) and smart free agent pickups (Brosius, O'Neill, T.Martinez). It wasn't until Steinbrenner and the Tampa office felt the need to interfere that the whole thing slowly came apart.
 
2006-01-20 10:59:13 AM  
The following are facts:

1) Submitter is a douche - Theo never would have signed Damon for what he got in NY

2) It is not possible to judge Cashman. He has been largely powerless, as George and the Tampa contingent make many of the decisions. If he WAS in complete control, you'd have to call him an epic failure, since they've spent A BILLION DOLLARS on contracts since the last Yankee title.

The only way to judge him is when he leaves the Yankees for a smaller market team - then we'll know how good a decision maker he is.

3) While the Red Sox have plenty of holes, I like the moves they've made (suring up the bullpen and acquiring Beckett). I also like the moves they haven't made (overpaying for aging players - the very thing that's killed the Yankees, and overpaying for mediocre free agents - the very thing that will kill the Orioles and Blue Jays this year and beyond).
 
2006-01-20 11:05:46 AM  
JOHara: What is the Yankees rotation right now? Johnson, Mussina, Pavano, Wright and Wang? I think that rotation is one or two injuries away from sending the Yankees into a tailspin.

Johnson, Mussina, Pavano, Chacon, and Wang. The Yankees will have Wright and Small in the bullpen in case of trouble.

somms: I was under the impression that Cashman and the New York office built that last Yankee mini-dynasty through their efforts in the farm system (Jeter, Posada, Williams, Rivera, Pettite) and smart free agent pickups (Brosius, O'Neill, T.Martinez). It wasn't until Steinbrenner and the Tampa office felt the need to interfere that the whole thing slowly came apart.

Pretty much. It didn't help when those guys started retiring. But rather than go for quality players, they kept picking up these all-star players. The all-star at every position strategy hasn't worked very well, they've neglected just getting quality everyday players who are consistant. But Cashman is working towards that again.

priestrape: I like the moves they've made (suring up the bullpen and acquiring Beckett). I also like the moves they haven't made

They traded their SS and top prospect SS, and now have no SS. They wouldn't pay their CF (who was Jesus to them until he left) and now have no CF. I know it's all about "OMG DON'T OVERPAY" but, they really cut off their nose to spite their face.
 
2006-01-20 11:08:08 AM  
I'm sorry, crackhead - I didn't realize that the season started tomorrow. I sure hope they get a CF and an SS tonight!

Oh...you mean the offseason isn't over yet? Phew.

And just because Damon was Jesus to the Red Sox (which he was), doesn't mean it's smart to overpay for a 37-year-old player (which he will be by the end of the contract) to play a position that requires speed.

But, when you're the Yankees, you can do that and worry about it later.
 
2006-01-20 11:14:52 AM  
This is a quick rewrite by the producers and writers, due to tremendous negative feedback from the fans, to keep Luke and Tracy together, put Skye with Alcazar, keep Courtney with Jax, break up Sonny and Emily in order to put Carly and Sonny back together ad nauseum, and Nikolas and Emily reconciled.

/Only Farker who watches GH
//Unless Dr Gregory House farks
///Red Sox are a better soap opera, anyways.
 
2006-01-20 11:15:50 AM  
priestrape: I'm sorry, crackhead - I didn't realize that the season started tomorrow. I sure hope they get a CF and an SS tonight!

Yes, and there are so many quality players to choose from on the market. And unless they're trading Papelbon they won't get a team to part with a good player. They don't even have a good CF or SS prospect to try and place into that spot. I'm sure they'll find someone though.

And just because Damon was Jesus to the Red Sox (which he was), doesn't mean it's smart to overpay for a 37-year-old player (which he will be by the end of the contract) to play a position that requires speed.

Yeah, and there's nothing saying that he won't get bumped to RF after Sheff is gone next year. And there's nothing that says he'll have the same drastic dropoff like Bernie Williams. Damon was fine for Sox fans in CF until he became a Yankee, no he's aging and not worth it, just like Pedro right? Honestly, I see Damon moving to RF and making way for either a CF signing next year, or maybe Melky will be ready to come up. (Andruw Jones is a free agent next season too... hehe)

Sox fans have no loyalty.
 
Displayed 50 of 82 comments


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | » | Newest | Show all



This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter






In Other Media
  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report