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(The Newspaper)   In Britain, making a defiant gesture toward an inanimate object is now a crime   (thenewspaper.com) divider line 157
    More: Scary  
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16536 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Jan 2006 at 3:42 AM (8 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2006-01-11 12:19:21 AM
Thats OK. Don't feel bad - it is a crime here too. If you
were to flick off our president, not only would you get a
fine, but chances are you would also get a yummy cavity
search.
 
2006-01-11 01:00:49 AM
Wow I can not belive Bush and his buddies keep getting awa......What? ..Britain you say? ohhh sorry carry on


ChewbaccaJones

Thats OK. Don't feel bad - it is a crime here too. If you
were to flick off our president, not only would you get a
fine, but chances are you would also get a yummy cavity
search.


I think the keys words here are "inanimate object" he may be a dolt but I dont think he is an inanimate object.
 
2006-01-11 01:04:03 AM
That's just insane, doesn't stuff like that just completly erode the rule of law in a society? I mean, if you can't predict with more than the slightest degree of certainty the consequences of an action (suspended liscence for a year for giving a sign to a traffic camera?!?!), how can you tell right from wrong on a legal level?
 
2006-01-11 02:10:42 AM
Wanted for questioning:

img300.imageshack.us
 
2006-01-11 03:44:52 AM
Thoguh - we have a winnar.
 
2006-01-11 03:47:31 AM
Before you get too excited, please realize that the site being linked here is a driving news site, which appears to mean that its against traffic cameras all over the world. As such, the story is pretty skewed.

Of course, if you look at the source they cite, what really happened wasnt that much better, but there was at least some justification as to what happened.
 
2006-01-11 03:48:40 AM
Wow, sure glad they are getting the "victory sign" flashers off the streets. I will feel so much safer now.
 
2006-01-11 03:50:46 AM
I want to know what the fark the camera was doing taking photos of someone who wasn't speeding, I also want to know what he was charged with. About the only legitimate charge I can think of is driving without due care and attention. He removed both hands from the wheel to make the gesture. "Enraging the police" is definately not a legitmate offence.
 
2006-01-11 03:50:59 AM
He got a fine his license suspended for a year for giving a "V" sign to the camera? WTF? Somebody had to be out to get this dude, because that reaction is mind-bogglingly extreme for what he did.
 
2006-01-11 03:53:50 AM
If you read the source article, linked from the original link, it reads as follows:

"A motorist who made V-signs at a police speed camera has been convicted of dangerous driving and banned for a year.

Sean Toehill, 21, took both hands off the steering wheel to make the gesture, although Cupar sheriff court, Fife, heard that he was not speeding and did not lose control."

No mention of a photograph. Still, sounds like a pretty severe stitch up to me.
 
2006-01-11 03:58:03 AM
V for vendetta?
...22 years later. At least we still have media, to some degree.
 
2006-01-11 03:59:30 AM
I don't get it. What's so bad about a "V" sign? Is that some weird British thing?
 
2006-01-11 03:59:46 AM
I think that "V" sign was probably facing wrong-way round.

But, still -- they're turning into such asshats in Britain. TV licenses, spycams everywhere, now this. Are they really that concerned that somebody, somewhere, might be unpolite or rude?

/UK government needs to go to a few football matches...
 
2006-01-11 04:01:19 AM
what I'd like to know is why the thing photographed him if he wasn't speeding?
Does it just photograph every car that drives by?
Why did the police look at the picture of the non-speeding car in the first place?

That said they have him for dangerous driving, not because of the "V" sign but because he took both hands off the wheel to make it...

I'd like to see the photo. I'm guessing that he had both hands off the wheel and held high, giving no the Victory sign but rather the Other two fingered signal...
 
2006-01-11 04:01:28 AM
Note for us Americans -- if you make a peace sign, but with the back of your hand pointing outward, jerking your hand upwards, it's as rude as the finger is in the US. Roughly translated, it means "up yours".

Not to be confused with the "V for Victory" sign they used in the illustration, which isn't the "V sign" they're talking about...
 
_
2006-01-11 04:01:42 AM
whatisthematrix.warnerbros.com

Remember, remember, the 5th of November.

Anarchy!

www.geocities.com

I work down at the Cinnabon.
 
2006-01-11 04:04:29 AM
Holy farking Jesus H Christ. WTF is wrong with the legal system over there? Did the Nazis actually win the war and someone forgot to tell the rest of the world? First they are allowed to institute the vehicle number plate tracking system and now it's a crime to gesture at a Malfunctioning speed camera? I call BS on the taking both hands off the steering wheel too. And the poor sap is banned for a year? You Brits need to start screaming bloody murder at your politicians or this shiat is gonna get a whole lot more common.
 
2006-01-11 04:09:47 AM
Hey Chewbacca

Enjoy the next three years!
 
2006-01-11 04:11:48 AM
Whoa. This is the most local Fark has ever gotten...

I live roughly a 20 minute's drive from there, and haven't heard anything about it.

The main story in this area right now is some guy who belted along a Dual Carriageway outside my work at 156mph and got caught by a Speed camera.
 
2006-01-11 04:11:50 AM
The staff of Grace Brothers is not amused.
 
2006-01-11 04:12:27 AM
vat_man
No mention of a photograph. Still, sounds like a pretty severe stitch up to me.


Your right ... no mention of a photo in the source art.
It infact mentions a van. which indicates to me that it was not an automatic speed cam.
My guess is he drove by a van with some police in it, with both hands off the wheel giving them the old double two fingers, and they desided he was driving dangerously, and got him for it.
 
2006-01-11 04:15:43 AM
Holy farking Jesus H Christ. WTF is wrong with the legal system over there?
Read the original article. The penalty is not for the sign, it's for taking your hands off the wheel while moving. If you stop your car, and get out, you're free to make as many obscene gestures as you like.

submitter is an asshat.
 
2006-01-11 04:18:33 AM
Calm down guys, it's not as big a deal as they make out. He didn't get the fine for the V-sign at all, although that probably encouraged the police to go looking for him.

If you're driving a car with no hands on the wheel and not looking where you are going, you can expect to get a fine, especially if you do it in front of a police camera. I'd go for the Stupid tag rather than Scary
 
2006-01-11 04:30:10 AM
"Look Ma, no hands!"
 
2006-01-11 04:38:21 AM
"But, still -- they're turning into such asshats in Britain. TV licenses, spycams everywhere, now this" First off, the Licenses have been around since, well, Television. Kinda nice not to have commercials every fifteen minutes. And what they actually air on TV is a hell of a lot more liberal (sex and violence wise) than the US. Secondly, the spycams. I like them. They make me feel safe wandering home from a night out in London. And hell, if I do get mugged, at least I get a sovenier to remember it by! ;) So, no. They aren't turning into asshats. They're doing things a bit differently and it all seems to be working fine.
 
2006-01-11 04:43:25 AM
The infamous "V" sign they are talking about is what our English archers used to show the French during the Hundred Years War, signifying that they still had the fingers to draw back bow strings. (The French purportedly amputated the fingers of captured archers.) How our government can argue that this is obscene is beyond me.
 
2006-01-11 04:44:42 AM
HeliumAddict

Holy farking Jesus H Christ. WTF is wrong with the legal system over there?

Like everywhere, it is occasionally policed by arseholes.

Did the Nazis actually win the war and someone forgot to tell the rest of the world?

Nope, though sometimes it seems like it.

First they are allowed to institute the vehicle number plate tracking system and now it's a crime to gesture at a Malfunctioning speed camera?

Apparently, though he might've got away with it if he'd kept one hand on the wheel.

I call BS on the taking both hands off the steering wheel too.

I presume they had photographic evidence, what with it being a camera and all.

And the poor sap is banned for a year?

Yup.

You Brits need to start screaming bloody murder at your politicians or this shiat is gonna get a whole lot more common.

That doesn't help; eg. Iraq War, protests of.
 
2006-01-11 04:44:43 AM
Errrr....guys...if you read the original article you find out that this guy took BOTH hands of the steering wheel in order to give the "double V" sign to the camera.

Call me an unfeeling, Nazi b@stard if you like, but I think that anybody stupid enough to wave both hands at a POLICE CAMERA while driving deserves everything he gets.

Come off it - it's illegal to use a cellphone whilst driving and you're supposed to be in control of the vehicle. Having no hands on the wheel = not in control of the vehicle. The guy's clearly a muppet who cared more about being a geezer than driving safely.

Maybe a year ban is harsh for this, but I'm not going to cry for him.

Secondly - the V sign is made using your first and middle finger. It is a uniquely British (or English) sign of abuse which (legend has it) began at Agincourt. The French army greatly feared the legendary British archers and would cut these two fingers off any that they caught, thus preventing them drawing a bowstring. Hence, the English archers would wave their two fingers as a "Come and get them!" taunt at the French.

/who would respond by inisinuating that the English bowmen's mothers were hamsters and their fathers smelled of elderberries.
 
2006-01-11 04:45:57 AM
I suspect they probably three-pointed him and that took him to the magic 12 points, and hence the ban. It still seems a bit harsh though. Also I suspect he was done for driving without due care and attention as it's an easy one to prove...

Why does Britain hate drivers?
 
2006-01-11 04:50:22 AM
pragmatictwitch: ...First off, the Licenses have been around since, well, Television. Kinda nice not to have commercials every fifteen minutes. And what they actually air on TV is a hell of a lot more liberal (sex and violence wise) than the US. Secondly, the spycams. I like them...

Gotta agree on British Telly. Their programs kick all kinds of ass over ours, but what's with this Six Episode per series crap? Still -- Red Dwarf, Are You Being Served, The League of Gentlemen, the original The Office, Monty Python's Flying Circus, even As Time Goes By... brilliant, all. And I suppose that a TV license fee still costs less than an annual cable subscription. (But -- the Beeb is still second to Aussie TV for laugh out loud, wet the easy chair funny -- Kath & Kim anyone?)

Can't agree with you on the spycams, though. And, back to the original article, it still seems that, sometimes, British Authorities have no senses of humor at all...

\/ \/

(No hands double V sign for ya...)
 
2006-01-11 04:50:45 AM
JB-NoHo - TV licences make us asshats? What, those licences that have been around for decades and which give us at least 4 quality TV channels, superb documentaries, news programmes and fiction, countless national and local radio stations and internet sites, all with ZERO advertising or commercial breaks?

And those spycams....yeah, they're really terrible, the way that they help deter crime and catch criminals. OK, so I could live without the ones that the secret poice installed in my bathroom, but the ones on my high street mean that I can stumble home drunk without being robbed outside the kebab shop.
 
2006-01-11 04:53:14 AM
"Krazikarl : Before you get too excited, please realize that the site being linked here is a driving news site, which appears to mean that its against traffic cameras all over the world. As such, the story is pretty skewed."

How that reads to me: "Let's talk to Lord Humongous. He seems like a reasonable man!"

/no offense. Juss sayin'.
 
2006-01-11 04:53:32 AM
Gah, that's nothing.

Last year a bloke in Australia got snapped by an automatic rader speed camera so he reversed up and threw the whole thing in the back of his van and stole it.

The police made public appeals for it to be handed back and when it was mysteriously dumped back at the station it had been erased.

Clever sod.
 
2006-01-11 04:55:23 AM
You Americans screaming about how Britain is living in a police state (yeah cos you're really known for your relaxed freedoms over there), have probably never heard of the British stereotype 'the white van man'. White here refers to the van not the man... although they are mostly white. These are tradesmen / deliverymen / whatevermen who are complete, total asshats. Tailgating, speeding, cutting people up, you name it. Driving home for Christmas up the motorway, the fastest vehicles were white vans. They read the Sun, make obscene gestures at women and deserve EVERYTHING THEY FARKING GET.
 
2006-01-11 04:59:00 AM
...but the ones on my high street mean that I can stumble home drunk without being robbed outside the kebab shop.

As someone else from the UK pointed out, they won't do crap to keep you from being robbed. But at least you'll have a lovely picture of you with that knife to your throat as you hand over your wallet and watch...

...have probably never heard of the British stereotype 'the white van man'.

Oh. You mean what we call a (Lexus/BMW/Mercedes) driver?

And do they have this phenom over there -- taxi cabs always go thirty miles over the speed limit, until they're in front of you, in which case they move at five miles per hour...
 
2006-01-11 05:01:35 AM
JB-NoHo

Oh. You mean what we call a (Lexus/BMW/Mercedes) driver?

No, this is totally different. They're not just crap, aggressive drivers, they represent everything negative about the working class, white male.
 
2006-01-11 05:02:22 AM
So if the IRS was in Britain, I couldn't do this?

img211.imageshack.us
 
2006-01-11 05:04:04 AM
No, this is totally different. They're not just crap, aggressive drivers, they represent everything negative about the working class, white male.

So, other than that "working class" bit, the same thing. See, In Amuricah, our assholes are upper class...

/I'm grinning. Just like I was when I included "TV License Fees" in my original list
//Has roots so deep in Britain he's related to the Queen.
///Who you calling a queen?
 
2006-01-11 05:13:01 AM
I love the santimonious among us that have never taken their hands off the wheel at a whopping 22 mph. I for one look forward to the day when the government issues everyone a ticket for momentarily glancing away from the road, drinking a cup of coffee or tuning the radio.

It's not like the beloved speed cameras themselves ever distract people into paying attention to something other than the road, like the speedometer, or anything.
 
2006-01-11 05:13:12 AM
I'm an American living in England, and I just find this funny because the bus stand by my house has a picture of a guy giving the finger to a retarded-looking person in a wheelchair. I still don't understand that one.
 
2006-01-11 05:13:39 AM
JB-NoHo

//Has roots so deep in Britain he's related to the Queen.

Ahhh, so you are German then...

/old joke
//couldn't resist

The BMW/Lexus/etc mob are the same in the UK. The white van menance is different in that white vans tend to be ones that have been hired by people, so they are much worse. The UK equivalent of Cops (Police, stop!) has loads of traffic clips and most of them involve someone in a white van doing something severely retarded...
 
2006-01-11 05:16:18 AM
//Has roots so deep in Britain he's related to the Queen.

Ahhh, so you are German then...


As Queen Victoria would have said, "Vee are not amused..."

Okay, we are amused -- and true, I'm also part German. But I'm related to the Queen through that tiny bit of actual Anglo-Saxoness that slipped through. Well, okay, I guess it was Frenchness. I'm still a Half 36th Cousin...

/King Ralph flashback?
 
2006-01-11 05:19:44 AM
''It was a bright cold day in April, and the clocks were striking Thirteen....''
 
2006-01-11 05:34:11 AM
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2006-01-11 05:49:41 AM
I prefer Bez. Here's an ickle story bout Bez (excuse the spelling, copied from another site, can't be bothered to correct):

Well ive been snowboarding with Bez and Goldie with Upfront mag years ago in Austria , Bez stood in the central sq with spliff in hand and im like " Bez you will get nicked " he says nah " they are dead liberal like the dutch " me says " No Bez this is a neo facist goverement " he says " shiat what about all these pills i brought with me " I went for a walk !
 
2006-01-11 06:01:13 AM
Taxcheat Newsflash. You're supposed to keep at least ONE hand on the wheel at all times. If you choose to deliberately remove both hands from the wheel solely to make abusive gestures then I have no sympathy if you get caught and punished for it.

Maybe there are some situations in which one is compelled to remove both hands from the wheel whilst in motion, but I struggle to think of any.

/personally I'm just happy that somebody doing 22 in a 40mph zone has been fined - they cause me no end of trouble. It even sounds like this guy slowed down and then deliberately did something stupid and illegal in front of a camera. The guy's a tw@t.
 
2006-01-11 06:01:22 AM
I wonder who'll become a totalitarian shiathole first. US or UK.

Have at it lunatics!

I wonder if a sociologist or some anthro could explain why in a time of such excess wealth the strongest freest countries choose the lemmings route. Personally, it's baffling.
 
2006-01-11 06:02:04 AM
Submitter: thanks for todays rework of the classic joke:

"My brother in law was arrested for his beliefs."

"That's terrible, what beliefs?"

"He belived that the night watchman was asleap."


For reference, the template is as follows:
Line 1: Person arrested for apparently innoculous action
Line 2: Incredulity
Line 3: RTFA: the innoculous action was actually an integral part of committing a crime - in this case driving without due care and attention
 
2006-01-11 06:02:37 AM
Lady J

Well ive been snowboarding with Bez


I once saw Bez at a ski resort in Switzerland. Didn't talk to him though. It was in an apres-ski nightclub and he looked fairly mangled.
 
2006-01-11 06:25:39 AM
More Information : So he hasn't just taken his hands of the wheel, he's actually leaning across the front-seat passenger.

Toehill is an asshat; submitter is an asshat.

Court dismissed.
 
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