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(AP)   Parents of scout struck by lightning sue the Boy Scouts for not being prepared   (wcbs880.com) divider line 64
    More: Ironic  
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7054 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Jan 2006 at 3:48 PM (8 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2006-01-07 02:17:00 PM
'Scout leaders have blamed Matthew's death on a ``rogue lightning bolt'''

President Bush to add thunderstorms to his Axis of Evil.
 
2006-01-07 03:11:28 PM
"Warning: Lightning may be hot, no not drink"
 
2006-01-07 03:23:26 PM
I worked for an overnight camp that got a tornado warning every year I was there... and we had no storm shelter what-so-ever for our 90-110 kids.

We used to hang out in this pavillion (read 4 car garage next to an open field. The kids would be crying their eyes out.

I don't think it even had a lightening rod. The whole situation was sketchy. I made an issue of it every year, but the camp director always shot me a dirty look and then laughed it off.

/not a boyscout camp, but the property used to be a boyscout campground.
 
2006-01-07 03:52:19 PM
tinypic.com
 
2006-01-07 03:53:04 PM
why does GAD hate the boy scouts?
 
2006-01-07 03:54:40 PM
The weather man said just the other day. There really is no way to prepare for lightening except if you hear thunder get INSIDE. Since they were camping did they really have a safe choice? I am so tired of these sue happy people. I think I am going to Sue the Sue Happy people for annoying the crap out of me and causing me stress. I might have a case hummmmmmmmmm.
 
2006-01-07 03:54:45 PM
Leap, please do not post pictures of pat robertson or type his name. I may very well start yelling and/or a flamewar
 
2006-01-07 03:55:05 PM
I think that deserves the asinine title instead.
 
2006-01-07 03:56:26 PM
Pretty soon the Boy Scouts will only be allowed to go on camping trips to the local mall. What do people expect? The outdoors to be perfectly sterile and 100% safe?
 
2006-01-07 03:57:54 PM
In the future everyone will be sued for 15 minutes.
 
2006-01-07 03:58:20 PM
Better chance of winning if they just sue God. It was his lightning bolt afterall.
 
2006-01-07 03:59:13 PM
Cup_O_Jo: The weather man said just the other day. There really is no way to prepare for lightening except if you hear thunder get INSIDE. Since they were camping did they really have a safe choice? I am so tired of these sue happy people. I think I am going to Sue the Sue Happy people for annoying the crap out of me and causing me stress. I might have a case hummmmmmmmmm.

RTFA moran. They were in a building, then were released back to their tents. Then the kid got hit. The camp director screwed up, plain and simple.
 
2006-01-07 03:59:52 PM
yunbu

Ha! I certainly wouldn't want -that- to happen.
 
2006-01-07 04:03:38 PM
They had a perfectly good mess hall to shelter in. Why send the scouts out into the rain?

``I didn't see this as a preventable-or-not incident as much as it being an act of God with a rogue lightning bolt,'' Braun testified.


There's your problem. Save us from know-it-alls.
 
2006-01-07 04:03:49 PM
Darwin much?

/rest my case
 
2006-01-07 04:08:48 PM
be advised. living may cause death.
 
2006-01-07 04:10:26 PM
Postal Penguin: Pretty soon the Boy Scouts will only be allowed to go on camping trips to the local mall. What do people expect? The outdoors to be perfectly sterile and 100% safe?

Ummm... you know the difference between luck and negligence right?
 
2006-01-07 04:17:02 PM
Groy don't be an asshat. I did read the article. ROGUE LIGHTENING hello. You can NOT be prepared for lightening. No need to be so RUDE.
 
2006-01-07 04:17:04 PM
One scorchmark merit badge, please.
 
2006-01-07 04:19:01 PM
no one expects the lightning inquisition.
 
2006-01-07 04:19:11 PM
Groy: Ummm... you know the difference between luck and negligence right?

Yes I do. I have camped several times in tents during severe thunderstorms, as in lightning multiple times a second, and am still kicking. If the storm was that obvious I doubt the counselor would have sent them back to the tents. I would take stock in his statement that he thought the storm had passed. The kid was simply unlucky that the lightning hit him. The counselor made a mistake but was not negligent.
 
2006-01-07 04:19:29 PM
Lightening?

Your spillchicken is not context-aware.
 
2006-01-07 04:19:59 PM
Postal Penguin: Pretty soon the Boy Scouts will only be allowed to go on camping trips to the local mall. What do people expect? The outdoors to be perfectly sterile and 100% safe?

Yes. Halloween at the mall is merely the beginning.
 
2006-01-07 04:21:14 PM
I warned Matthew not to share a tent with Rod.
 
2006-01-07 04:22:13 PM
does no one else find the term 'rogue lightning' amusing?
 
2006-01-07 04:26:53 PM
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live in the real world."

-Mary Shafer, NASA Dryden Flight Research Center, SR-71 Flying Qualities Lead Engineer
 
2006-01-07 04:30:12 PM
Hey, LightningBolt isn't a rogue, he's a warrior!

/WoW joke, not even that funny.
//STFU, the game's fun.
 
2006-01-07 04:34:26 PM
So, what if there wasn't a dining hall like most camps? Is letting anyone stay outside during a thunderstorm negligent? Does the existence of a building change the definition of acceptable risk? If it does, how close does it have to be?
 
2006-01-07 04:36:25 PM
Cup_O_Jo

The weather man said just the other day. There really is no way to prepare for lightening except if you hear thunder get INSIDE. Since they were camping did they really have a safe choice?

Yeah, there is a safe choice. When mountaineering I was taught that when the lightning-to-thunder count is less than 15 seconds, we all:

1. Spread out away from trees
2. Drop pack
3. Kneel on foam-rubber ground mat and curl up
4. Get comfy 'til strikes are far, far away


There's no reason AT ALL for something like that to happen at an established campsite with permanent shelters! I'm not aware of any lightning fatalities in the history of the wilderness school I went to, and we made do with a heck of a lot less than the Boy Scouts.

/North Carolina Outward Bound School Alumnus
//We used to make fun of Boy Scouts when we passed them on the trail
///Knee socks and neckerchiefs are teh ghey
////Leave No Trace MOTHERFARKER!
 
2006-01-07 04:42:28 PM
It probably varies by troop, anyone know if the Boy Scouts have AEDs on big trips like this? I would hope theyd have more than a basic first aid kit.
 
2006-01-07 04:45:43 PM
cpux- I laughed and
qwyeth- If it is one thing we learned last year nature can not always be predicted.
The weatherman also gave a little speech about your 15 seconds rule and said that is not always the case. That if you hear thunder regardless of wether it sounds far away or if the storm has just passed you need to stay inside.
This is pretty much a new "rule" because lightening is natures biggest killer.
STILL. You can not sue what mother nature threw. Grieving over death does some strange things. Obviously this kids parents are angry. Sueing for negligence is not the answer. It isn't going to solve that NATURE HAS LIGHTENING.
 
2006-01-07 04:47:44 PM
Cup_O_Jo: Groy don't be an asshat. I did read the article. ROGUE LIGHTENING hello. You can NOT be prepared for lightening. No need to be so RUDE.

Awesome. I love it.

Postal Penguin: Yes I do. I have camped several times in tents during severe thunderstorms, as in lightning multiple times a second, and am still kicking. If the storm was that obvious I doubt the counselor would have sent them back to the tents. I would take stock in his statement that he thought the storm had passed. The kid was simply unlucky that the lightning hit him. The counselor made a mistake but was not negligent.

I think by definition all lightning is 'rogue'. It seems pretty non-directed to me. I think you and I are on the same footing- I've been camping in the same situations, and I've also been in Boy Scout camps during thunderstorms. In fact I was almost hit once (the tree I was next to exploded). I had been dealing with the flooding in the camp while everyone else went inside the few buildings in the area.

After that experience I understood why my camp had such strict policies regarding lightning. It is pretty easy to think you are safe and have the storm turn on you very quickly. From the article it appears that quite a few people thought it wasn't safe to leave the buildings yet- that seems clear enough to me, especially since someone got struck, that they shouldn't have gone out yet.

Fortune and luck affect us at all times. Negligence is when we don't take simple action to mitigate probable and forseeable consequences.
 
2006-01-07 05:05:37 PM
I stand by my assessment that the year of "freak accidents" for the Boy Scouts weren't so random.

See, they're a religious organization, right? And they do what they do in the name of God, right? And they express hatred of a multitude of creeds, faiths, and people (pretty much everyone except heterosexual Protestant males, actually) in the name of their God.

Then, when it was heating up, and they went on record against women and homosexuals and all that bullshiat, suddenly Boy Scouts are getting struck by lightning.

I know exactly why it happened.
 
2006-01-07 05:27:28 PM
Southpaw018: See, they're a religious organization, right? And they do what they do in the name of God, right? And they express hatred of a multitude of creeds, faiths, and people (pretty much everyone except heterosexual Protestant males, actually) in the name of their God.


Ever heard of a straw man fallacy?
 
2006-01-07 05:28:42 PM
This needed an "asinine" tag.
 
2006-01-07 05:31:55 PM
"The Boy Scouts deny negligence; Scout leaders have blamed Matthew's death on a ``rogue lightning bolt'' coming from skies that appeared to be clearing."

so long as the electric potential in the atmosphere is still high, lightning will happen. it's nature for you. but here in florida, alot of the parks and playgrounds have a lightning detector, which sounds a siren if the conditions are right for a lightning strike nearby. kids are taught to get inside and stay inside till the siren stops sounding.
 
2006-01-07 05:32:10 PM
Quote: "One that wins praise is the Chattanooga, Tenn.-based Cherokee Area Council, which lost a Scout to lightning 20 years ago. It has a detailed lightning-safety plan plus storm-alert equipment at its Skymont camp, including a device that can detect lightning 300 miles away."

Having spent a weekend at this camp back in October I can honestly say this group takes it quite seriously. Lightning safety was a big part of my son's first aid course there. Most people dont realize that lightning can hit you from up to 50 miles away. In other words you don't even have to be able to see or hear a storm for the possiblity of lightning strikes so leaders should always be aware of storm fronts passing nearby. Also when in the woods there is as much danger from the ground as the sky ie: lightning hits a tree and the current is transferred across the ground via tree roots. As I said - our instructor went over lightning safety quite indepth. Nice to read something non local commending this group for their planning.

/returns you now to your regularly scheduled PC/non PC flamewar
 
2006-01-07 05:38:49 PM
"It probably varies by troop, anyone know if the Boy Scouts have AEDs on big trips like this? I would hope theyd have more than a basic first aid kit."

It depends on the residential camp. All of the ones in Georgia I am familiar with do have them. But they are generally at the Health Lodge (main first aid station), which could be 1/2 mile from where it would be needed.

I have done thunderstorms (and one tornado) at scout camp. The ones in my council are pretty strict when it comes to seeking shelter when they come (which is nearly every day in the summer). Our council has a detailed lightning safety training component (which has to be refreshed every two years), and the rules are in the Guide To Safe Scouting. It sounds like the camp director wasn't really on the ball that day.
 
2006-01-07 05:45:45 PM
Somehow I just know that this is how I am going to die. This or a meteor. Or a big farking spider.
 
2006-01-07 05:46:53 PM
Aulora80

Most people dont realize that lightning can hit you from up to 50 miles away. ... Also when in the woods there is as much danger from the ground as the sky ie: lightning hits a tree and the current is transferred across the ground via tree roots.

Shiat. Kinda takes the fun out of going outside to look, doesn't it?

Re TFA, I'd say it's borderline. I don't know if it's quite lawsuit-worthy, but it's definitely worth mandatory remedial training for the leaders as well as the scouts--the scouts in the dead kid's group, at least, will bloody farking listen!

I'd be inclined to yank my kid after that, and I would definitely yank him if the leaders weren't given remedial training. Again, I don't know if a lawsuit is really the answer, but I don't think the parents are cockbites for trying--they're grieving and lashing out any way they can think of. That's normal.
 
2006-01-07 05:53:47 PM
"See, they're a religious organization, right?
And they do what they do in the name of God, right? And they express hatred of a multitude of creeds, faiths, and people (pretty much everyone except heterosexual Protestant males, actually) in the name of their God."

Wrong. A Scout is reverent. But to us, that means to show respect for the creator in a way compatible with how we came to know him. One of the great misconceptions is we are a Christian organization. There are scout units of just about every religion I can think of (except possibly Satanism).
 
2006-01-07 06:10:14 PM
Another Government Employee: One of the great misconceptions is we are a Christian organization


Then why are atheists not welcome? Atheism is just as much a belief system as Christianity.
 
2006-01-07 06:11:05 PM

2006-01-07 05:53:47 PM Another Government Employee

"See, they're a religious organization, right?
And they do what they do in the name of God, right? And they express hatred of a multitude of creeds, faiths, and people (pretty much everyone except heterosexual Protestant males, actually) in the name of their God."

Wrong. A Scout is reverent. But to us, that means to show respect for the creator in a way compatible with how we came to know him. One of the great misconceptions is we are a Christian organization. There are scout units of just about every religion I can think of (except possibly Satanism).


*ch* You have never truly read "Boy's Life" then, it is full of satanic references. Hail, Satan!
 
2006-01-07 06:11:28 PM
I read the farkin' article and I agree that they should have kept the campers in the building and not let them outside. Instead of dismissing lightning as an "act of God," they easily could have and should have kept the kids inside the dining hall for 30 minutes after the lightning stopped. This would have saved the boy's life. Considering the history of fatal lightning strikes at boy scout camps, it's not surprising that a lawsuit has been filed.
 
2006-01-07 06:26:22 PM
If it's going to take the Boy Scouts getting hit in the pocket to protect anyone else's family then that's what I guess it takes,'' said Mary Tresca, sitting with her husband in their suburban New Jersey home.

It takes a special kind of parent to see the profit potential in their child's death. This is purely about an angry couple making money under the pretence of justice. Bankrupting the scouts will stop kids going on trips like this in future but lightning will carry on striking people. I can take mercenaries like this. I can't handle them lying about their motives.

This is pretty much a new "rule" because lightening is natures biggest killer
 
2006-01-07 06:36:38 PM
I'm an Eagle Scout in the Boy Scouts of America. Where I am, we complete an army wilderness survival camp at Fort Polk in order to get it. It's a 2 week long program.

After all the things I have learned about wilderness survival, building shelters, gathering and identifying plants and potential food....they never taught me how to control the weather. Now I feel cheated.
 
2006-01-07 06:46:27 PM
nothingmuch:

I have been to HUNDREDS of Boy Scout campouts. No one "I" know of was ever struck by lightening...so saying it happens all the time is false.

Bee stings and your occasional snake bite sure...but let's face it...not ALL lightening comes from a cloud directly overhead. Hell, ANY cloud can produce lightening. So maybe we should all keep our kids inside except on perfectly clear, sunny days with low relative humidity so that they dont get struck by lightening from a cloud that is 10 miles away.
 
2006-01-07 06:52:29 PM
I'm a boy scout camp counselor at a camp very much like the one described. When a thunderstorm comes we do move everyone into the dining hall, and if the storm passes (which according to the counselor seems to be the case) we send the kids back to their sites. The only thing that closes is the waterfront for twenty (or 30 i dont remember) minutes from the last lighting/thunder seen or heard (whichever is last).

And atheism isnt a religion (belief system yes but not religion) since it doesnt worship a diety (i think...) And we believe in a creator.
 
2006-01-07 06:57:38 PM
"Rogue Lightening" DOES exist - just look at the most famous example....

www.zebracorn.com
 
2006-01-07 07:13:36 PM
Another Government Employee "One of the great misconceptions is we are a Christian organization."

Yeah. Sure you're not. Your organization preaches Christian ideals, professes to hating gays because it's an "unnatural act" not in the bible, and the troops I'm aware of have classes that are tantamount to bible study as part of their meetings.

Your national organization is Christian. Many troops are Christianized.

I stand by my statement.
 
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