"Farkers have clicked on the above link 0 times"

typical greenlight lately, mods really need to reconsider what they think people find interesting.

13 times. It's a whirlwind of activity.

har har

39 times

Well... look at it now

Farkers have clicked on the above link -7 times

Is that even possible?

flyf15: Is that even possible?

glitch in the matrix

unpossible!

stupid headline.

1n S0vi3t Russ1a, gas needs you!

/dang f1lt3r

Ukraine is weak!

I think I speak for everyone here when I say that this headline was well thought out and entirely worth the time it took to read it.

As usual, this is the most significant news story we've seen in months, and most people don't get it. The implications of this are huge. This is an indicator of where we're going with energy, and starting right now. Hold onto your butts, America, because we need energy real bad, and we don't have enough here at home.

Increasingly, it will be kiss ass for energy, or be prepared to go take it at the point of a gun. Russia has a hefty, sophisticated strategic-tactical nuclear arsenal, so it'll be kiss ass in this case. The huffing and puffing of our neocons and the EU on this is hilarious. They're over a barrel, and don't like it one shiatty little bit. Putin has called their bluff.

I think everyone understood the headline canyoneer. I also think most of us are aware of the energy problems the U.S. faces. I'm pretty sure the main concern was the way the headline was worded. your fellow farkers want creativity.

2006-01-03 12:16:39 PM canyoneer

you mean it hasnt been kiss ass for energy for a whole generation already?

and i for one would like to have some ukrainians over a barrel, lots of nice women there. . . :)

I don't think russia would try to do the same thing to the EU or the US. Right now their economy is in the shiatter. They export everything raw, and buy back final products. (I'm not 100% certain on this, i think i read an article somewhere, but I think if you discount the oil exports, their trade defecit is worse than U.S.). Which effectively means that raising energy prices for the world, means raising own prices for imports...not the best idea. When they can finally make their own industries viable...well that's when it will be time to bend over and take it.

This is an interesting topic that deserves some discussion, but all I'm going to add is that, yeah, that headline was awful. Even by junior-high standards.

glitch in the farktrix.

Nice headline...I laughed out loud.

haveagun: "I think everyone understood the headline canyoneer. I also think most of us are aware of the energy problems the U.S. faces."

You think so, eh? You really think most of us are aware of the energy problems the U.S. faces? I don't. I think well over 50% of "us" have no clue. I think well over 50% of "us" never think about it at all.
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Father_Jack: "...you mean it hasnt been kiss ass for energy for a whole generation already?"

Until now, there has been an ever-increasing supply of energy, always one step ahead of demand. It is not at all clear that it will continue to be that way in the future. If supply doesn't keep a step ahead of demand indefinitely - or when supply permanently lags behind demand - it's going to be a whole new ballgame.
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SaladMonkey: In a world of energy scarcity, the secure producer (like nuke-rich Russia) holds the whip hand and can negotiate favorable terms on everything.

canyoneer

touche. Though until they get their industry up and running, we have some bargaining leverage regarding the stuff we export to them (i fear, very soon, the entire world economy is going to be russia/china with like 5% of the population holding all the wealth)

Russia's just telling the Ukraine they better tow the party line or they can just fart their own gas. But due to the inescapable fact that the gas pipeline runs through their country, the Ukranians have just been siphoning off what they need. The rest of Europe is who is on the short end for now. Putin will now have to put up or shut up. It can become a very scary situation. Shades of Hitler browbeating Poland.

canyoneer: SaladMonkey: In a world of energy scarcity, the secure producer (like nuke-rich Russia) holds the whip hand and can negotiate favorable terms on everything.

That may be the best *real* explanation for why we're now keeping energy and mineral companies out of so many "wildlife refuge" zones in the US. After the rest of the world runs dry, we can open them up and demand HUGE profit margins ;-)

LewDux: Haha. Isn't it rich when bullies get indignant about being bullied? Har-dee-har.

The U.S. and Europe have used World Bank funds and market access as clubs against poorer countries for years and years to get everything they want, including forcing changes in internal policies and financial arrangements in the target countries. That's how all of these "free trade" agreements have been reached. Then there is the meddling in Russia's backyard by quasi-governmental and offcial American government agencies, like in the Ukrainian election recently. When Russia intervened in Central America, we went ballistic, and still hold our grudge against Castro.

Now, someone else is using a club on them and retaliating for interference in the Russian backyard, and they don't like it. Well, boo-farking-hoo. Trot out the tiny, tiny little violins and cry about how Putin is acting like "Hitler."

Excuse me while I vomit. Bunch of farking hypocrites and cry babies who can't take what they dish out. Bush invades Iraq and causes tens of thousands of deaths to squat on the oil fields, but Putin is "Hitler," and the Russians are acting like a "mafia."

Pbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbt.

Give me a break.

jcclab

Russia is a big arsehole, especially when people don't do what it wants. Hell, there's an extremely good chance that they were behind the poisoning of Ukraine's now-President. Putin is ex-KGB, and he still uses those tactics. It really is no surprise that he is punishing Ukraine that way.

If anything, this should show people how much state control of stuff sux. I'm sure private companies would not be using such blackmail to extend their power. However evil corporations are, they are only interested in profit, which sort of prevents them from rising to this type of level. (I will ignore the officer misconduct issue)

As an American living in Russia right now I see this on the news every day. Basically from what I understand the Ukraine has been getting a special Ex-USSR price from Russia on gas and now that the Ukraine is pro EU and not pro Moscow, Russia doesn't want to give them the buddy buddy price as a punishment. If the Russians pipes weren't running through the Ukraine this wouldn't even be much of a story, but since they are the Ukraine can take gas when ever they want which is effecting the EU supplies.

canyoneer

Just cuz the pot calls the kettle black, doesn't change the kettle's blackness.

Russia is scary because Putin is rolling back democracy to make it easier for himself to keep power. There's also allegations that he caused the Chechnya war (not unlike Bush's Iraq). I like the country & the people, but the gov't scares the beejesus out of me.

PolyPill

I wouldn't put too much credence into Russia's state run media. I've been there myself, and they do spin their stories like crazy (yes yes I know FoxNews). As far as I understand, what Russia is asking from Ukraine is above market levels. Additionally, they cut them off while the negotiations were still pending (not really a good move).

jcclab: "I think the thing I have not see talked about much (not at all in the US) is that Russia was selling at .50 to Ukraine at state sponsor prices and now wants 2.30. Imagine if you woke in the morning and BP wanted 10.50 a gallon for gasoline, you would be concerned. Also what if your water came through your bad next door neighbors house and they could turn it off or on when ever they felt like it. Might be some concern there."

What you describe is poor planning. All of our Giant Brain Economists and Financial Gurus have been thinking of energy as just another commodity - like soy beans or pork bellies - for decades, but it turns out they were WRONG. Energy is as important strategically as nuclear weapons, as will become starkly clear to everyone soon enough.

Now we need our fix, and like junkies we'll crawl on our bellies for that dime bag, or resort to armed robbery to get it. Just like junkies. Oops.

And just to think: The Handwriting was on the wall in 1973 - *over 30 years ago* - and our Great Leaders couldn't be bothered to prepare for the future, the stupid greedy shiat-heads. Well, now we're farked. How about that, huh?

SaladMonkey: Well, the government in Washington, D.C. scares me a lot more than the Russians do. Washington, D.C. is quite a bit closer.

Just as Hitler ran to Romania for oil in WW2, I don't think anyone was 'in the dark' about how important controlling energy is.

But yes, we had a wake-up call in 1973 (1980)(2005) that America just ignored.

SaladMonkey

I think they spin only slightly more than CNN, BBC, and Fox. 3 of the 5 major news organizations are owned by the government and they're all reporting the same thing. That doesn't mean they're not misrepresenting the truth, but I heard nothing about "above market value" they've been saying it's the exact same price everyone else pays over and over.

I don't really blame Russia for cutting them off, if a US trade partner started siding with someone else, we'd cut off their discounted prices too.

Sort of related is another story no one in the US seems to care about is the emerging Socialism in Latin America.



Boliva's president-elect cuts own pay by half


LONDON (AFX) - Bolivia's socialist president-elect, Evo Morales, and his entire cabinet will take a 50 pct pay cut so more staff can be hired for the education and health sectors.

'This is a democratic revolution and we will answer the Bolivian people's call,' Morales said.

'Its a question of sharing the country's situation among us all,' said Morales, who has vowed to make multinationals pay more into the national economy and to raise Bolivia from its status as one of Latin America's poorest nations.

Morales, a 46-year-old coca grower and Aymara Indian who won a Dec 18 presidential election and will be inaugurated on Jan 22, said his future salary of some 3,600 usd per month would be slashed to 1,800 dollars.

Cabinet ministers and all 157 members of Morales' Movement to Socialism (MAS) party elected to Congress will also take a 50 pct pay cut, Morales said, adding that the salaries of 157 substitute congressmen -- who take over the duties of lawmakers when they are absent -- will be reduced to zero.

new­sd­es­kswen­xf­a­co­m

PolyPill

i'd actually beg to differ. As somone who came from there (visited there recently), and who's parents call their friends there all the time. I can vouch for the fact that Russia's news do spin a lot especially regarding political issues ie Chechnya, so I doubt this is different

/granted I really don't have a reference point for the spinning done by CNN & BBC so I don't know if they spin as bad.

DECMATH: "That may be the best *real* explanation for why we're now keeping energy and mineral companies out of so many "wildlife refuge" zones in the US. After the rest of the world runs dry, we can open them up and demand HUGE profit margins..."

Don't hold your breath. There isn't that much to get in our wildlife refuge zones. That's scraping the bottom of the barrel, not playing it close to the vest.

Take ANWR, for example. The most optimistic projections indicate there might be a few month's supply there at current burn rate.

And did I mention that the TransAlaska Pipeline was designed to work for 20 years? Did I mention that it started operations in 1977, almost 30 years ago? Did I mention that it will take at least 10 years to develop ANWR? Did I mention that would put the first ANWR oil in the pipeline almost 40 years after it was built to last 20? Did I mention that it cost $8.5 BILLION to build the 800-mile Alyeska pipeline in 1977? What would that be in 2010 dollars? 80 Brazillion?

Uh, gonna need a new pipeline, which kinda changes the thermodynamic and economic equations just a tad. Oops. Might not be worth it, at all.

jcclab: "Sort of related is another story no one in the US seems to care about is the emerging Socialism in Latin America."

Ain't democracy grand? Hold genuine democratic elections in Latin America, and they elect socialists. Hold genuine democratic elections in Iraq, and they elect Islamic fundamentalists. Amazing how that works, eh? The "will of the people," and all that.

The crashing sound you hear is the sound of delusions being smashed to bits by reality.

SaladMonkey

I've been living in Russia for over a year. The more I watch the BBC (one of the few english tv channels I have) the more I dislike it. I'm also pretty sure the BBC said last night that Russia was now asking the same price from the Ukraine as everyone else, or maybe they were quoting someone.

Maybe the BBC and CCN don't "spin" but the BBC seems to like to do a lot of stories about why *Random Common Wealth Member Country* is better than *Another Country, usually the USA* And things like "This London based study shows that London is the best place in the world"

/of course these are just made up examples and I have no links
//this is fark, you don't need anything but your own opinion

so I guess playing the brown note at said concert would be redundant?

/obvious

Didn't Bush say that he looked deep into Putin's heart and found that he is a nice guy. Big surprise, eh? Two wannabe dictators fall in love with eachother.

Who does the gas belong to? Russia.
Can they charge what they want, to whom they want, and use this as a political lever? Yes.
What is Ukraine going to do about this? Don't know.

STFU with your moral righteousness. Geopolitics has nothing to do with "right" or "wrong". Those matter only inasmuch they affect public opinion.

2006-01-03 01:35:30 PM canyoneer

The crashing sound you hear is the sound of delusions being smashed to bits by reality.

Hey canyoneer, I enjoy your posts quite a bit, in fact you are one of my favorite Farkers (TF or lite), and it's lines like that that make it so.

canyoneer

You seem way too happy to sit on top of a dungheap and tell everyone how much it stinks. What are you doing to curb your own energy use? I mean, besides annoying all of us and making us turn our computers off. Chicken little to the extreme.

Must have had White Castle for lunch.