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(timesonline.co.uk)   Italian judge orders priest to prove that Jesus exists   ( timesonline.co.uk) divider line
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25152 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Jan 2006 at 2:36 AM (11 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



836 Comments     (+0 »)
 


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2006-01-02 09:44:18 PM  
Awesome. Score one for Secular Humanism
 
2006-01-02 09:48:13 PM  
This can only end in fires from the heaven or a staff turning into a snake.
 
2006-01-02 09:56:50 PM  
So, you are the Christ, you're the great Jesus Christ.
Prove to me that you're divine, change my water into wine


/jc,s
 
2006-01-02 10:13:16 PM  
If the church can't prove that Jesus was real, don't give in to despair. You can pray to Frosty The Snowman. He too will be back again someday!
 
2006-01-02 10:45:20 PM  
Woodpecker from Mars

I'll see your Jesus Christ Superstar and raise you a:

You stormed off to scar the armada
Like Jesus played letter,
I'll drill through your hands
The stone for the curse you have blamed me
With love and devotion, I'll die as you sleep
But if you could just write me out
To neverless wonder... happy will I become
Be true that this is no option,
So with sin I condemn you
Demon play, demon out!
 
2006-01-03 12:31:06 AM  
<exorcist>

Let Jesus fark you! let him fark you!

</exorcist>

/your only chance to be free
 
2006-01-03 12:31:33 AM  
Easy -- you just pour all the letters to Jesus on the judge's desk.

/not too obscure
 
2006-01-03 12:34:30 AM  
Oh no, here we go again.
 
2006-01-03 12:37:06 AM  
Oh, I did this once today already. I surrender.
 
2006-01-03 01:51:01 AM  
I'm no friend to organised religion but I should think this would be relatively easy. There are churches built circa 44 a.d., which is close enough to Jesus' lifetime to have been built by people who knew him, or of him. Am I to infer for atheist guy's argument that Troy did not exist because we only have Homer's (hundreds of years later) word for it? Up until the 19th century this was indeed all we had. But Troy did exist and has been excavated.

The gospels, such as they are and stripped off the mystical miracle-working mumbo-jumbo, are relatively good secondary sources. The Bible in general can be used to cross-reference other recorded and dated events in the ancient world. Although not contemporary the gospels clearly record strong oral tradition (Mark and John particularly) which would be acceptable as evidence, with an appropriately skeptical eye to the asserted facts, of a person's existence if it were, say, Pericles and not Jesus under discussion. The athiest guy's opinion has colored his approach.

I don't believe in Jesus as son of God but I think there was clearly a jesus the man. What is interesting in the lack of contemporary accounts of his life is that it demonstrates his personal relative lack of importance in the political and religious scene of his day. He was one wandering revolutionary rabbi among many such. His personal life and death were insignificant to outside eyes at the time. Jesus had the greatest publicists there has ever been.
 
2006-01-03 02:40:51 AM  
I predict this will not become a flame war just because the atheism thing got beaten to death a few days ago.

And good luck to that poor priest...this should be hilarious...
 
2006-01-03 02:41:04 AM  
I rather enjoyed how the article itself tried to give out evidence...
 
2006-01-03 02:41:35 AM  
WorldCitizen:

Oh, I did this once today already. I surrender.

I'll save everyone the trouble: In the middle is Communism/Marxism as a religion and at the end it's the World Trade Center attack.
 
2006-01-03 02:42:33 AM  
[image from venganza.org too old to be available]

I am a pastafarian.
 
2006-01-03 02:42:42 AM  
And at some point, a question about buttsecks is asked.
 
2006-01-03 02:43:05 AM  
existed?

/Or did he rise from the dead and I just wasn't informed?
//Tap dances
 
2006-01-03 02:45:01 AM  
Interestingly enough, the letters of Paul were written decades before the first gospels were, and they don't have half of the crazy mumbo-jumbo miracles in them that the gospels did.
 
2006-01-03 02:45:38 AM  
Luigi Cascioli, a retired agronomist who once studied for the priesthood but later became a militant atheist

Militant?? Most atheists are just dicks.
 
2006-01-03 02:48:08 AM  
We need more people in power to call out the occults. It's a tough bid given all the political and monetary competing interests involved. But, humanity is all the better for it. Fairytells are for kids.
 
2006-01-03 02:48:09 AM  
Teyeger:

Most atheists are just dicks.

Easy, there are female atheists too...
 
2006-01-03 02:48:51 AM  
Gosling: And at some point, a question about buttsecks is asked.

Bucksecks?

Teyeger: Militant?? Most atheists are just dicks.

Or perhaps you're socially hostile towards them, which makes them act negatively towards you. Dick.
 
2006-01-03 02:48:57 AM  
In case somebody tries to use the passages of Josephus:

If somebody in this thread attempts to use the passages from Josephus' book, Antiquities, as a source for the existence of Jesus, you should be advised that the passages referring to Jesus in Josephus' book were forgeries added in by later Christians. The passages in question ridiculously spend only a few scant sentences referring to Jesus, calling him the Messiah (Josephus lived and died an Orthodox Jew) and then it branches back off into talking about other things. Plus there is a 7th Century of it copied into Arabic that clearly shows an absense of said passages.
 
2006-01-03 02:49:08 AM  
Some guy named Jesus fixed my roof a couple weeks ago. He definately existed, did an awesome job. Maybe they should talk to him.
 
2006-01-03 02:49:31 AM  
bbcrackmonkey: Interestingly enough, the letters of Paul were written decades before the first gospels were, and they don't have half of the crazy mumbo-jumbo miracles in them that the gospels did.

They also never once mention Jesus as being from Nazareth.
 
2006-01-03 02:49:50 AM  
It seems this judge is more of a dick than an atheist. Shouldn't he be for the free thought and the likes?
 
2006-01-03 02:50:54 AM  
Wait a minute, I always thought Jesus DID exist. I always thought he was either an illusionist or a confidence man, but I was certain that he existed at some point in history.
 
2006-01-03 02:51:41 AM  
Teyeger: Militant?? Most atheists are just dicks.

There are a lot of atheists who are dicks, I'll give you that. The reason for this is because atheists are almost always converts/reverts from Christianity, and thus they spend a lot of their time and energy preaching and trying to prove their new religion to other people because they, themself are uneasy with it deep down inside and are really trying to prove it to themselves.

There are a lot of people who you don't know are atheists simply because they don't talk about it because there is a lot of societal prejudice towards them, as you have just exhibited.
 
2006-01-03 02:51:42 AM  
Plunkies: Some guy named Jesus fixed my roof a couple weeks ago. He definately existed, did an awesome job. Maybe they should talk to him.

He didn't hit his hand with a roofing nail, did he?
 
2006-01-03 02:52:01 AM  
boy atheists have a penis
girl atheists have a buhgina
 
2006-01-03 02:53:38 AM  
He does exist:

[image from img453.imageshack.us too old to be available]

Nobody farks with the Jesus!
 
2006-01-03 02:53:49 AM  
'Course he exists, I seen pictures!
 
2006-01-03 02:54:01 AM  
"An Atheist loves his fellow man instead of a god. An Atheist knows that heaven is something for which we should work now - here on earth - for all men together to enjoy. An Atheist knows that he can get no help through prayer but that he must find within himself the inner conviction and strength to meet life, to grapple with it, to subdue it and to enjoy it. An Atheist knows that only in a knowledge of himself and a knowledge of his fellow man can he find the understanding that will help to a life of fulfillment."

An Atheist seeks to know himself then and his fellow rather than to know a god. An Atheist understands that a hospital must be built instead of a church. An Atheist knows that a deed must be done instead of a prayer said. An Atheist strives for involvement in life and not escape into death. He wants disease conquered, poverty vanquished, war eliminated. He wants man to understand, love and accept all of mankind. He wants an ethical way of life. He knows that we cannot rely on a god, channel action into prayer, or hope for an ends to our troubles in a hereafter. He knows that we are not only our brother's keepers - but keepers of our lives foremost, that we are responsible persons and the job is here and the times is now.


When I read this excerpt, I thought "Interesting. Very good argument."

But what I have experienced in life is that a lot of Atheists are some of the most egotistical and degrading sons of biatches I have ever met. Much worse than Christians who shrug off my verbal defence.

I've read the Bible several times just because the subject interests me. I am by no means a believer, but more analytical in the fact of how it has shaped our world.

This endless argument will continue to exist until all of us can become diplomatic and reasoned with. Which obviouly will never happen until we EVOLVE that type of understanding.

So everyone here, including myself, are at the mercy of our own understaning. Which, unfortunatly, is at a stand still.

Have faith in your life and the ones you love. The world is what we make of it, after all.

(that's probably another unfortunate part)

/just a curious on looker
//carry on with your flaming
 
2006-01-03 02:54:41 AM  
McDingus: I predict this will not become a flame war just because the atheism thing got beaten to death a few days ago.


Nothing is ever dead on FARK. We've been having the exact same arguments daily for as long as I've been here.
 
2006-01-03 02:54:51 AM  
Most atheists are just dicks.
Really? I don't know most of them, but the ones I do know just want the fundies to shut the fark up and leave them alone.
 
2006-01-03 02:55:29 AM  
"atheists are just dicks" because they're allowed to have sex outside of marriage and enjoy it. Therefore, they can be all penis and it tends to make them a bit cocky.

Of course, Christians do it too, but they have to feel guilty about it, which makes them angry.
 
2006-01-03 02:58:00 AM  
COMALite J: They also never once mention Jesus as being from Nazareth.

Very true. A lot of people say that "Jesus of Nazareth" is a mistranslation, and instead it should be "Jesus the Nazarene", which could have many different meanings, the most likely of which is a Greek translation of the Aramaic word Nazur, ie. a Nazirite, which was a Jew who took special vows to be closer to God. Nazareth itself was a tiny village and most likely nothing but a necropolis during the time of Jesus.
 
2006-01-03 02:58:32 AM  
Don't you mean Jeshua Bin Joeseph?
 
2006-01-03 02:58:48 AM  
I thought it was the catholics that transformed jesus into a deity? I say they are all wrong, and you should pray to our alien overlords that are coming soon. If you want to go back with them and have a room full of 18 year old virgins at your disposal, then you need to pay the church of hyperspaz 15% of everything you make. Why, because the aliens overlords state that this pays for your trip. Nothing is free sorry to say. Yes, I will make sure our Alien overlords get the money, no worries.
 
2006-01-03 02:58:57 AM  
All I have to say is watch the episode on religion of Pen & Tellers Bullsh*t. It's in the season 2 set. plus i think BXRWXR summed it up best with the pic. Personally I have always been told that magic isn't real it's just an illusion so why should i make an exception for one J man? If he did exsist then by far the most pimp magician ever!
 
2006-01-03 02:59:12 AM  
His name isn't Jesus. It's Yeshua.

/heathens
 
2006-01-03 02:59:48 AM  
tasteme: Have faith in your life and the ones you love. The world is what we make of it, after all.

I like the cut of your jib, sir.
 
2006-01-03 03:01:07 AM  
user956: His name isn't Jesus. It's Yeshua.

The English translation of which would be Joshua.

Praise Josh!
 
2006-01-03 03:03:19 AM  
..began legal proceedings against Father Righi three years ago after the priest denounced Signor Cascioli in the parish newsletter for questioning Christs historical existence..

I'm sorry, shouldn't it be expected that a priest considers Jesus a historical figure? Is this really worthy of the courts? He denounced a militant athiest within his church. It's not like he accused the guy of eating babies.
 
2006-01-03 03:04:52 AM  
I'm pretty sure Homer has already proved that god doesn't exist. If only Ned hadn't destroyed the documentation,
 
2006-01-03 03:05:37 AM  
bbcrackmonkey

I like the cut of your jib, sir. Ma'am.

I your jib, too, sir! :)
 
2006-01-03 03:08:42 AM  
Hey I got news for ya. Yeah most atheists are dicks, so are most christians. People are dicks. Americans are dicks. Everyone who owns an ipod is a dick. That's life.

/I'm gonna go pray in hopes that god will stop creating dicks.
//Jesus was a dick.
 
2006-01-03 03:08:54 AM  
bbcrackmonkey
There are a lot of people who you don't know are atheists simply because they don't talk about it because there is a lot of societal prejudice towards them, as you have just exhibited.

Right you are.

Really, it was meant to be sorta tongue-in-cheek. I hope most here realize that.
 
2006-01-03 03:09:15 AM  
picturescrazy: 'm sorry, shouldn't it be expected that a priest considers Jesus a historical figure? Is this really worthy of the courts? He denounced a militant athiest within his church. It's not like he accused the guy of eating babies.

In my opinion there was a real Jesus historical figure. Most likely he was some radical rabbi who was crucified for speaking out against the Romans and then his followers stole his body away shortly after his death. The Gospel of Mark, the first gospel written, originally ended with them finding an empty tomb. It was only later that the stuff about the resurrected Jesus coming to visit them was added in.

Plus, any militant atheist going to church just to piss on someone else's religion needs to get a farking life. That dude must be farking bitter, but then again if you live in Italy and are an atheist you'd probably have a lot of people on your ass all the time.
 
2006-01-03 03:11:11 AM  
Plunkies
Yeah most atheists are dicks, so are most christians. People are dicks.

You really oughta consider making bumper stickers or t-shirts with that line on them. I'd buy one :)
 
2006-01-03 03:11:13 AM  
In other news, judge orders quantum physicist to prove that gluons exist.

\Flame on!
\\As long as we're being fair
\\\Slashies sigh, but this is to be expected- he always gets wonky when he has to change his sleep cycles.
 
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