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(ABC)   U.S. intelligence has been monitoring mosques and Muslim houses for radiation in top-secret program for last four years: Report   (abcnews.go.com) divider line 340
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4167 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Dec 2005 at 8:52 PM (9 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2005-12-23 09:21:56 PM  
Hurray!!!! More national secrets exposed by the the not traitorous not liberal not bush ahting media!!!
 
2005-12-23 09:21:59 PM  
PapalMonkey: the monitoring required investigators to go on to the property

On to and in to are 2 different things. Are you saying they walked into the yard of the property? Oh the horror... the gas man does it every month.

There is no 'expectation of privacy' on a yard that isn't protected by a locked privacy fence.
 
2005-12-23 09:22:13 PM  
Prussian_Roulette: U.S. intelligence has been monitoring mosques and Muslim houses for radiation in top-secret program for last four years: Report

Good cubed.

They need to find these people who are intentionally leaking this kind of information and throw their asses in jail.

I second the motion.

We're talking about nuclear weaponry for god's sake. Better be safe than sorry.

No doubt the howls of protest about the violation of civil liberties would be drowned out by the howls of incompetence after the first attack.

Of course that incompetence will be the result of the self-inflicted blindness of the intelligence community and oversight committees that make no bones about leaking secrets of national security to score political points.



I vote for liberty and the preservation of our Constitution over safety.
 
2005-12-23 09:22:18 PM  
"But we dont racial profile?"


Only the people who want us all dead, INeedAName.
 
2005-12-23 09:22:20 PM  
I'm glad this has been going on for the last four years and not the FIRST four years. Because that would have been stoooopid!

/"past four years" sounds better...
 
2005-12-23 09:22:32 PM  
UKerupt
"I see no problem with this."

What ever happened to standing up to the enemy and not letting them take away the things we hold so dear? What ever happened to 'Give me freedom or give me death?'

Don't you dare take away my rights, the rights so many Americans fought and died for, just because you're a pussy.

You're so goddamn afraid that you just hand over your freedoms, and mine with them, so that the government will protect you. Grow a farking spine.

Terrorists, whether Muslim or Christian, can't take away our rights as Americans. Only cowards like you can.
 
2005-12-23 09:23:00 PM  
This thread is goin'...

[image from thetoydoctor.com too old to be available]
 
2005-12-23 09:24:03 PM  
limeyfellow,

Actualy, I think street (and rural) gangs are the worst terrorist organizations in America, as far as the number of murders, injuries, rapes, muggings, robberies, vandalisms and thefts are concerned.

I highly doubt white supremesist and christian extremists have the body count that gangs do
 
2005-12-23 09:24:22 PM  
UKerupt
"Only the people who want us all dead, INeedAName."

Right... because all Muslims want to kill Americans. How 'Pat Robertson' of you.

So, by your logic, all priests want to rape our children, right? We better start monitoring them then...
 
2005-12-23 09:24:42 PM  
Immaculate_Misconception:

NOBODY has inferred that this is illegal, only discriminatory, which it obviously is.

Really? Let me refer you to the following post and maybe you can read the thread before you call someone out. mmmm k?

2005-12-23 08:58:31 PM itsfullofstars [TotalFark]

Uh oh, bypassed more of those pesky court orders again.
 
2005-12-23 09:24:58 PM  
stirfrybry
Hurray!!!! More national secrets exposed by the the not traitorous not liberal not bush hating media!!!

Oh quit your melodrama, whiner.
 
2005-12-23 09:25:28 PM  
Immaculate_Misconception: I vote for liberty and the preservation of our Constitution over safety.


I think this is covered in 'provide for the common defense'.
 
2005-12-23 09:25:52 PM  
PapalMonkey: What ever happened to standing up to the enemy and not letting them take away the things we hold so dear? What ever happened to 'Give me freedom or give me death?'

The Bush supporters have been frightened into a state so bad that they are willing to wipe their asses with the Constitution in order to feel a little safer.

Fcuking pussies.

I did not fight for these rights only to have them stripped away by a bunch of chickenshiats.
 
2005-12-23 09:26:21 PM  
UKerupt
"Are you saying they walked into the yard of the property? Oh the horror... the gas man does it every month. "

Hey, as long as you're cool with the 'gas man' keeping a record of everyone who comes by your house, and maybe videotaping your home 24 hours a day, simply because of your religion. You're okay with that, right?
 
2005-12-23 09:27:01 PM  
damitjim: Really? Let me refer you to the following post and maybe you can read the thread before you call someone out. mmmm k?

2005-12-23 08:58:31 PM itsfullofstars [TotalFark]

Uh oh, bypassed more of those pesky court orders again.



Did he say it was a violation of the law, it sounded like a sarcastic joke to me.

Try again Chicken Little.
 
2005-12-23 09:28:01 PM  
PapalMonkey,

whoa dude, i think you're putting words in my post, i don't ever recall saying that...

I think you should be attacking spamdog, he's the one who said it. but thanks for thinking about me
 
2005-12-23 09:28:04 PM  
PapalMonkey: What ever happened to standing up to the enemy and not letting them take away the things we hold so dear? What ever happened to 'Give me freedom or give me death?'

Don't you dare take away my rights, the rights so many Americans fought and died for, just because you're a pussy.

You're so goddamn afraid that you just hand over your freedoms, and mine with them, so that the government will protect you. Grow a farking spine.

Terrorists, whether Muslim or Christian, can't take away our rights as Americans. Only cowards like you can.



Because my home defense weapons are useless against a nuclear bomb.

How the hell are your rights being infringed on by someone with a radiation detector?
 
2005-12-23 09:28:14 PM  
PapalMonkey:

Hey, as long as you're cool with the 'gas man' keeping a record of everyone who comes by your house, and maybe videotaping your home 24 hours a day, simply because of your religion. You're okay with that, right?

I already have nosey neighbors that do that.
 
2005-12-23 09:28:28 PM  
The Bush administration has been wiping its ass with the constitution for years now. Is it any surprise that people are getting a little jumpy over this?
 
2005-12-23 09:28:53 PM  
The original source:

USNews
 
2005-12-23 09:28:54 PM  
Yes, Tim McVeigh made it to his mosque on a daily basis. Kaczynski, too, that guy was crazy about Allah.

Our obsession with this monitoring has a lot less to do with terrorism and a lot more to do with brown people.
 
2005-12-23 09:29:00 PM  
tbernot: I think this is covered in 'provide for the common defense'.


Oversimplify much?

I with this philosophy you could just start putting all of the brown people in internment camps too?
 
2005-12-23 09:29:19 PM  
Immaculate_Misconception:

it sounded like a sarcastic joke to me.

So now you're a mind reader and now how it was meant?

Try again Chicken Little.

..and you ask if I have any self respect.
 
2005-12-23 09:29:19 PM  
A warrant is not needed to monitor radiation from "public commons" areas. In fact, if you throw out evidence and put it out to the curb, it becomes public domain- you have no expectation of privacy anymore. Now if law enforcement agencies have to trespass onto private property to install monitors or to penetrate hardened rooms (like lead-lined rooms, for example), they would need a warrant. In a case like that, they would probably get one of the "secret warrants" like we have been hearing about for the last 2 weeks.

However, people like Killer Miller, who seem to think that the media is the enemy here are off-base. First, if you're not at least mildly outraged at the audacity of the Plame leak, you're pretty ignorant or you're head is pretty far up Rush and O'Riley's @$$. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out the why and how of that affair. BushCo outed her with help from their tools in the media to strike back at Joseph Wilson, and in doing so, endangered the precious National Security(tm).

Second, to the ugahairydawgs of the world, remember it was a Senator's aide that leaked the information to the media. I'm waaay too lazy to look it up, but I seem to recall it was a republican senator to boot. (Now I could be wrong about that). So what does that mean in our discourse? Well, ours is a nation of greed, and being in the media world, hot news sells. And, being a greedy nation full of greedy people, the decision-makers in the press rooms made decisions to run stories such as those we are discussing. And we, as a public, buy it up, reinforcing the decision made earlier to run the story. It's the same reason you don't see good things on the nightly news- it just doesn't sell.

\gets off soap box
\\bring it on- I've got asbestos underwear!
\\\slashies
 
2005-12-23 09:29:47 PM  
Let me get this straight:

Saying 'Happy Holidays' instead of 'Merry Christmas' = Religious Persecution.

Secretly montioring, without judical oversight, the places of worship and private homes of members of a single, mainstream religion = Good work.

Do I have the equation right, or did I forget to carry the bigotry?
 
2005-12-23 09:30:04 PM  
[image from img385.imageshack.us too old to be available]

Radiation sensor or camera with listening device?
 
2005-12-23 09:30:15 PM  
bubbaprog: Yes, Tim McVeigh made it to his mosque on a daily basis. Kaczynski, too, that guy was crazy about Allah.

Our obsession with this monitoring has a lot less to do with terrorism and a lot more to do with brown people.



Great minds, so they say. >:)
 
2005-12-23 09:31:02 PM  
"I think you should be attacking spamdog"

I'm 'attacking' every one of you pussies who would gladly go back to the days of Monarchy, simply because you're too afraid to sleep without the blanket of Big Brother.
 
2005-12-23 09:31:07 PM  
Quite a jump from someone walking through your yard with a radiation detector and internment camps, don't ya think?
 
2005-12-23 09:34:18 PM  
damitjim: So now you're a mind reader and now how it was meant?

No, I possess basic reading comprehension, you should try it out.

..and you ask if I have any self respect.

I'm not the one who's worried about the sky falling because of the brown people. A reference to a popular childrens book character is nowhere near as asinine as your use of "leftard".
 
2005-12-23 09:34:34 PM  
"How the hell are your rights being infringed on by someone with a radiation detector?"

You're missing the important part... let me finish your sentance for you:

"How the hell are your rights being infringed on by someone with a radiation detector entering your private home without a warrant or reasonable cause, simply because of your religion?"

It doesn't matter what he's carrying... it matters that this government thinks that the security of the cowardly is worth more than the freedoms that so many Americans die for, and people like you are just making excuses for them.
 
2005-12-23 09:34:42 PM  
Immaculate_Misconception

I think Americans need to put common sense ahead of not hurting peoples' feelings. Those from the Middle East currently have a virtual monopoly on terrorism and so the US government should put more focus on them.

Don't think I'm saying this because I hate "brown people" or something. Had we been having this discussion 20 years ago in England, I would have been in favour of scrutinizing those with freckles and red hair (back when the IRA was the HBOC of terrorism). And there's no need to equally monitor churches currently since Clinton (rightfully) did a lot to disrupt and disband those right-wing Christian militias after the Oklahoma City bombing and has rendered them all but useless.
 
2005-12-23 09:34:49 PM  
When they came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews -


Uh, nothing. Because the communists, socialists, and unionists are locked up. Who's going to come for the Jews?

\I'll be here all night...
 
2005-12-23 09:36:06 PM  
A long time ago, in a mighty land far, far away there was a dream called "Democracy" and another dream called "Free Speech". The people flourished for two hundred years with these dreams, but alas, the evil invaders from the Middle East destroyed the great peoples' dreams and now they are only part of our long distant grey past.

[image from farkimages.com too old to be available]
 
2005-12-23 09:36:32 PM  
I love the smell of righteous indignation in the morning!
 
2005-12-23 09:36:46 PM  
tbernot: Quite a jump from someone walking through your yard with a radiation detector and internment camps, don't ya think?


You made a HUGE generalization that served to justify this type of racial/religious profiling in the name of national defense, how exactly is my response a stretch?
 
2005-12-23 09:38:34 PM  
I dunno, I'm pretty darn liberal but I have a hard time getting too worked up about this particular thing.

Bush should still have his ass tossed out, but not over this.
 
2005-12-23 09:38:58 PM  
ten_of_spades: I think Americans need to put common sense ahead of not hurting peoples' feelings. Those from the Middle East currently have a virtual monopoly on terrorism and so the US government should put more focus on them.


You know, these generalizations are also exactly why we are all "The Great Satan" to the terrorists.

You want to profile people in foreign countries in the search for intelligence, fine. But not Americans, and not on American soil.
 
2005-12-23 09:39:45 PM  
Man, it seems more and more like the government is just flailing around randomly hoping to catch some terrorists.

"Hey! I found some Arab dude's name in the phone book, let's put a wiretap on him! What, they'll never grant a warrant for that? Nah, don't worry about it."

"Hey, some Muslim guy lives in this house with his family! Let's check and see if he brings a nuclear bomb home, instead of stashing it in some remote location! What, focus our efforts more on monitoring our ports and borders? Too obvious, the terrorists are smarter than that."
 
2005-12-23 09:39:45 PM  
PapalMonkey,

I'll ask again, since when do you need a warrent to search a public place?

The govt never went into these private buildings.
They did go "onto" the property though.
A policeman can go "onto" my property, up to my fron door, ask if he can seach my house, I can say 'no thanks' and he'd be on his way. Did the evil policeman violate my civil liberties or my freedoms? Not that I can see. Now if he wants to sit in a big van that says "Flowers By Irene" (get it?) and watch me leave for work every morning, OHHHHH THE HORROR!! is he violating my liberties? nope. is he wasting his time and taxpayer money? yep
 
2005-12-23 09:40:20 PM  
That's right, folks. Leaking information about illegal surveillance being conducted by our law enforcement and intelligence agencies: bad. Leaking the identity of a covert CIA officer who specialized in weapons of mass destruction monitoring for political purposes: good.

Patrick Henry thinks you're a bunch of cowardly little pussies. And so do I.

"What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!" -- Patrick Henry, March 23, 1775
 
2005-12-23 09:40:25 PM  
You know, these generalizations are also exactly why we are all "The Great Satan" to the terrorists.

Bullshiat.
 
2005-12-23 09:40:41 PM  
Immaculate_Misconception:

I'm not the one who's worried about the sky falling because of the brown people.

...and now you're making assumptions of what I think.

p.s. Not all muslims are brown people.
 
2005-12-23 09:40:57 PM  
Those whacky FBI agents


/submitted this with a better headline
//or not, whatever.
 
2005-12-23 09:41:32 PM  
Before my head assplodes may I ask the following?

Before you write a 'Death of democray' post over the war on terror could you pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze maybe read a history book or two?

Please pay attention to the behavior of our past Presidents Lincoln and FDR during their wars. Then get back to me about how much democracy has died.

Or you can just grow the fark up, either one will work.
 
2005-12-23 09:41:38 PM  
Beemer: That's right, folks. Leaking information about illegal surveillance being conducted by our law enforcement and intelligence agencies: bad. Leaking the identity of a covert CIA officer who specialized in weapons of mass destruction monitoring for political purposes: good.

Patrick Henry thinks you're a bunch of cowardly little pussies. And so do I.

"What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!" -- Patrick Henry, March 23, 1775



*golf clap*
 
2005-12-23 09:41:54 PM  
I should hope so.
 
2005-12-23 09:42:45 PM  
I read this earlier today, UKerupt:

Is a warrant needed to conduct surveillance on public property? No, not really. But these searches were conducted on the private residences of Muslims throughout the nation. Does monitoring radiation levels constitute a "search"? In 2001, as the article points out, the Supreme Court ruled that the use of thermal imaging to detect heat lamps in a residence was a "search" under the 4th amendment and a warrant was needed. The case was U.S. v. Kyllo, and the opinion was written by Justice Scalia.

...From Justice Scalia in Kyllo:

Where, as here, the Government uses a device that is not in general public use, to explore details of the home that would previously have been unknowable without physical intrusion, the surveillance is a "search" and is presumptively unreasonable without a warrant.
 
2005-12-23 09:42:59 PM  
"The govt never went into these private buildings."

They were on the private property to monitor the interior with radiation detectors. The Supreme Court has already ruled that using technology to monitor a private residence from outside the residence requires a warrant (The decision was written by that famous Liberal Anton Scalia).

You think you shouldn't need a warrant? Fine, change the law. Don't ignore clearly decided law in an act of obvious religious prejudice and act like you didn't do anything wrong.
 
2005-12-23 09:43:52 PM  
They'd probably detect some eager beaver overachiever who built a bomb to impress his woman.

[image from filmhai.de too old to be available]

There's also the story of the Radioactive Boy Scout.
 
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