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(Fark)   Bush speech discussion thread. Please keep hands and feet inside ride at all times. LGT a very important piece of paper   ( law.emory.edu) divider line
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10151 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Dec 2005 at 8:32 PM (11 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2005-12-18 10:48:32 PM  
[image from www2.filehost.to too old to be available]
 
2005-12-18 10:48:44 PM  
Caffiend2003

So, in 1776, there were fifty sects of Christianity who wanted to kill each other? Mind giving an explanation?
 
2005-12-18 10:48:50 PM  
Whomever did that:

Thank you.
 
2005-12-18 10:49:00 PM  
Marcus Licinius Crassus: Seriously? Do you have a link or source for that?

/not doubting you, I'd like to read about it


Gah! I'm wrong:
http://www.factcheck.org/article144.html

Growth isn't fast enough to keep pace with demands (what with all the war wounded and all), but funding has been up every year since 2001.

So - VA doesn't get enough money everything they say they need to do, but they have been getting more money.
 
2005-12-18 10:49:17 PM  
10:46:08 PM SwiftFox

:( Prophets are cooler.
 
2005-12-18 10:49:36 PM  
I've never wanted to be called a defeatist.

Until now.
 
2005-12-18 10:49:48 PM  
I went to Alabama this weekend.

/got nothing pertinent
 
2005-12-18 10:50:07 PM  
KazamaSmokers: I don't think anyone is arguing with Weaver over THAT point, Dinki

I know you weren't, but cut the guy some slack, will ya? He's just taken the first step in the cure- recognizing that there is a problem.
 
2005-12-18 10:50:18 PM  
2005-12-18 10:48:09 PM TRUTHSEKER
STILL BETTER THEN THAT FLIP FLOPING KETCHEP DUDE
-----------
Um. Now I'm depressed.
 
2005-12-18 10:51:06 PM  
Yawn. The usual Bush bashers chime in, yet the UCLA study showing the media is left biased doesn't get green lighted. Is FARK now a subsidiary of Err America? Apparently so...
 
2005-12-18 10:51:26 PM  
I love threads like this. So many little sweetmilk-sipping liberal whiners all squeaking in unison. It warms my heart.
 
2005-12-18 10:51:40 PM  
Uh... Weaver, DIA and Gary PDX are not bots. Never have been, afaik.

TGoT, Dougske, and Mild7 OTOH...
 
2005-12-18 10:53:27 PM  
(yawn) ...well, its time to go to bed. this was great though. i hate all of you, you jerks. everyone of you.
 
2005-12-18 10:54:11 PM  
2005-12-18 10:44:29 PM skylabdown [TotalFark]

Yeah.. having an opinion is now called "trolling." Great.


Saying something like "LIBERALS MAKE EVERYTHING UP" isn't trolling?


2005-12-18 10:37:48 PM skylabdown [TotalFark]

I love Moveon.org zombies demanding others present "Hard Facts" to back up their statements. Since when was that important to you people?


Yeah, just an innocent opinion.
 
2005-12-18 10:54:26 PM  
Wulfhardt:

"I love threads like this. So many little sweetmilk-sipping liberal whiners all squeaking in unison. It warms my heart."
---
I love latecomers who were too busy watching Futurama DVDs during the speech to troll when anyone here still gave a shiat. Pull your pud elsewhere.
 
2005-12-18 10:54:29 PM  
The Billdozer: I have an honest question to ask of you all:

Do you want us to be successful in Iraq?

A simple yes or no will do.



No, a simple yes or no won't do, unless you are the President trying to convince the sheeple.

Here's questions YOU have to answer before we answer that:

1) At what cost??
1)a. Lives of soldiers??
1)b. $$$ in deficit
1)c. Bringing down the US economy?? And also the world economy??
1)d. The reputation of the US??

2) Does it bother you that pretty much exactly the opposite of what Bush & Co. said at the start of the war has happened?

3. Can't be said enough:
consdubya: Didnt Bush say that if we gave up our freedoms and changed our way of life, the terrorists win?

What happened to that idea?
 
2005-12-18 10:54:29 PM  
Wulfhardt
I love threads like this. So many little sweetmilk-sipping liberal whiners all squeaking in unison. It warms my heart.

You shouldn't make the mistake of thinking that anyone who thinks Bush is a moran supports the liburls. As far as I'm concerned, they're probably dumber than Bush, but at least their hearts are in the right place.

Bush is still stupid, but also violent and more than a touch evil.
 
2005-12-18 10:54:38 PM  
MightyTribble
To my mind, it looks like Weaver95 is in error where he claims that PATRIOT gives NSA warrantless search powers.



Not really gonna get into this whole Mumbo-Jumbo(I have before) but Weaver95 has a point.

The Patriot act has clause that essentially say "dont have to notify for a "reasonable" time". however they never say what this "reasonable" time frame is. 3-4 yrs in wartime...10yrs...its for national security!!!

Additionally you should look closely at the parts the state that any warrant in any area that a "terrorist" has operated can hand out a warrant. That warrant can then be used in ANY state in the US.

Imagine the possible abuses that can arrise from those type open-ended clauses.
There are many.


Thus ends my input into this thread.
Forward any statements to:

DUDE I TOLD YOU IM DONE AND FARKING WANNA WATCH TV!!!!
 
2005-12-18 10:55:37 PM  
Rockdrummer... you ARE aware that the UCLA study OMITTED Fox News programs... aren't you?

Sounds like a biased methodology in and of itself.
 
2005-12-18 10:55:54 PM  
Weaver95 at your own time, if you email me some links or offer books I could read, I'd like to read more about what has helped to form your viewpoint, because I would be interested in more information on this...

\just tryin' to be a better person, my name is Earl
 
2005-12-18 10:56:19 PM  
[image from img464.imageshack.us too old to be available]
RETREAT IS VICTORY! FREE ELECTIONS ARE TYRANNY! NO AGENDA IS PROGRESS!

/I see the deanie babies are out in force tonight
//YYYYEEEEEEEAAAAARRRRGGGGHHHHH!!!
 
2005-12-18 10:56:45 PM  
Wulfhardt
I love threads like this. So many little sweetmilk-sipping liberal whiners all squeaking in unison. It warms my heart.

You're right. On second thought, G.W. Bush is a magnificent President. After reading your post, I'm completely in favor of doing away with term limits so he can be President forever.
 
2005-12-18 10:56:45 PM  
MightyTribble
...unless a significant portion of GOP Senators man up.

Good one!

Gah! I'm wrong:
I'm more interested in how the remains are transported (commercial/military).
 
2005-12-18 10:56:53 PM  
Rockdrummer
Yawn. The usual Bush bashers chime in, yet the UCLA study showing the media is left biased doesn't get green lighted.

Keep whining, because that's attractive.

/Waaa! Fark isn't being politically correct. Waaa!
 
2005-12-18 10:57:03 PM  
skylabdown: I love Moveon.org zombies demanding others present "Hard Facts" to back up their statements. Since when was that important to you people?

Since before Bush wanted to invade Iraq.
 
2005-12-18 10:57:19 PM  
Rockdrummer: Yawn. The usual Bush bashers chime in, yet the UCLA study showing the media is left biased doesn't get green lighted. Is FARK now a subsidiary of Err America? Apparently so...


This somehow plays a vital role in the continuing discussion concerning Bush's recent speach. Oddly enough, however, I fail to realize what this role is; concluding that it is merely an attempt to side track the conversation. Yay, the media may have liberal tendencies... newsflash, the news has not been objective for some time now. Does this some how excuse Bush's actions as being cooked up by the "evil" liberals? No... if he did it (and he admitted he did it), he did it. Slant has little play, in this particular case. Now all we can do is hope a real investigation is put into play that actually has some muscle behind it. Investigations done for show are disgusting and a waste of time and money.
 
2005-12-18 10:57:35 PM  
Once again, to the Bush supporters: You are mentally retarded and have no concept of reality. If you want to support this war so badly, fight it your farking self. Let a few years near Fallujah do what Darwin should have done years ago.
 
2005-12-18 10:58:02 PM  
I love how righties claim that the left are the ones wearing the rose-tinted glasses. Yet they are the ones who insist that Iraq is a place with flowery meadows and rainbow skies, and rivers made of chocolate, where the children dance and laugh and play with gumdrop smiles.
 
2005-12-18 10:58:18 PM  
But jayday... the actions in question aren't covered under the Patriot act but under the Foreign Intelligence Service Act.
 
2005-12-18 10:58:29 PM  
[image from home.comcast.net too old to be available]

soy_bomb: post picture of Howard Dean and the clothes he bought at the TOILET STORE!!!
 
2005-12-18 10:58:43 PM  
WHO CARES
 
2005-12-18 10:59:10 PM  
Rockdrummer... you ARE aware that the UCLA study OMITTED Fox News programs... aren't you?

No it didn't.

Searching for FoxNews and got this hit before I went on in the article.

Only Fox News' "Special Report With Brit Hume" and The Washington Times scored right of the average U.S. voter.

Next time read before making a fool of yourself. Being a Deanie Babie Parrot does nothing for you.
 
2005-12-18 11:00:24 PM  
jayday

Which section of the Patriot Act are you referring to?
 
2005-12-18 11:00:50 PM  
soy_bomb

You burped up that tired schtick last night and it was just as lame. Get some new material already.
 
2005-12-18 11:01:16 PM  
jayday: The Patriot act has clause that essentially say "dont have to notify for a "reasonable" time". however they never say what this "reasonable" time frame is. 3-4 yrs in wartime...10yrs...its for national security!!!

You're refering to SEC. 213. AUTHORITY FOR DELAYING NOTICE OF THE EXECUTION OF A WARRANT.

The presumption (and bear with me here) is that you already have a FISA Warrant. Which means going in front of a FISA judge and showing probable cause. This is not a significant tweak of existing statute. It means you're under no obligation to tell someone that they've had a warrant issued against them if they're the subject of an ongoing investigation. That's the bit the 'reasonable time' refers to.

The problem with what Bush said yesterday was that he was specifically not going to FISA to get warrants. He was searching without warrants.

Not delaying warrants. Not getting warrants after the fact. But not even applying to a Judge for a warrant.

And that is not in PATRIOT, and is a violation of the Constitution - Amendment IV - which the Supreme Courts have already ruled on.
 
2005-12-18 11:01:19 PM  
2005-12-18 10:59:10 PM soy_bomb
No it didn't.
Searching for FoxNews and got this hit before I went on in the article.

Only Fox News' "Special Report With Brit Hume"..
--------------
And that was the ONLY Fox News program included in the survey. O'Reilly, Hannity... NONE of the other were. That's why I said Fox PROGRAMS, not Newscasts.

Sorry is careful parsing left you completely confused. That can happen to some people.
 
2005-12-18 11:02:09 PM  
soy_bomb:

all of a sudden academic studies are citable and definitive proof for you?
 
TV
2005-12-18 11:02:10 PM  
TRUTHSEKER
STILL BETTER THEN THAT FLIP FLOPING KETCHEP DUDE


lol! That's awesome.

I think you're my new favorite person on Fark, because you do everything IN CAPS in your bio too - sweet!
 
2005-12-18 11:02:45 PM  
It seems like the biggest problem isn't really Bush or his policies per se, but rather the fact that the population in general is so divided and polarized that someone like him could get elected in the first place. Just listening to the "discussions" in forums like this is disheartening, there is so much animosity between the two sides of the asile.

The fact is that this type of spying goes against the spirit of the United Sates and what it's supposed to stand for. The fact that the partisans have been whipped into such a fervor that they support it -- and in the name of *CONSERVATISM* no less -- is just plain sad!
 
2005-12-18 11:03:15 PM  
Gowain

-Nov 2001: US-lead forces topple Taliban, deal massive damage to terrorist networks. But leave troops behind. However, since Afghanistan isn't holy like much of Iraq is, this isn't a HUGE deal.
-March 2003: Operation Iraqi Freedom begins.
-April 2003: Baghdad falls to coalition forces.
-December 2005: Massive numbers of troops are still present in Iraq, many of them in areas traditionally viewed by Islam as holy. Many Muslims become angry, and turn to a radical breed of Islam in hopes of causing change and striking back in the percieved attack on their religion.



Uhh, explain to me what parts of Iraq are holy? Mecca is in Saudi Arabia, and Jerusalem is in Israel... And Mohammed pretty much lived in Saudi Arabia the whole time. Care to explain?

zipbeep
Let's see:

1) The price of oil has tripled since the start of the war (at least)
2) Iraq is becoming an Islamic state.
3) Al-Qaeda is DEFINITELY in Iraq now.
4) No WMD.
5) Osama is still loose.


What was the point of the Iraq war, again?



1) You are an idiot.
2) Iraq is becoming an islamic state? You mean, it wasn't before? Do you usually spout nonsense?
3) First of all, that would be GOOD if all the Al Qaeda went to Iraq, because that's where we are and we could get them, moran. Second of all, do you think it would be easier for Al Qaeda to hide in Iraq with Saddam Hussein there, or us there?
4) No WMD? You've got to be kidding yourself if you think Saddam would have moral objections to obtaining and using weapons of mass destruction. Or helping Al Qaeda. Even if he wasn't directly involved in 9/11, do you think he would have opposed? Do you think he's never helped terrorists?
5) Osama is still loose, and Iraq is one less place for him to hide.
 
2005-12-18 11:03:31 PM  
Anyone basing anything on that UCLA study is building a house on sand. It had horrible methodology and an exceptionally bad operationalization of the variables. You'll notice that it hasn't been published in a peer reviewed journal (as far as I know) and all the stories are based upon a press release by UCLA. Real scholarship isn't contained in press releases.
 
2005-12-18 11:03:46 PM  
I can't believe anyone actually took a bite at my flamebait. Just testing the waters, Farkers. The thread's still a bit warm. Thanks for playing along.

And yes, I agree that Bush is incompetent and driven only by his personal goals. We've all known it for awhile, which is probably why I'm tired of it now and being a jerk by flamebaiting people. "Sweetmilk-sipping whiner" is just too much fun to say.
 
2005-12-18 11:03:48 PM  
[image from i28.photobucket.com too old to be available]
 
2005-12-18 11:04:03 PM  
When did news articles not getting greenlighted equal a vast left-wing media conspiracy?

Oh, right, this is fark.com. My bad.
 
2005-12-18 11:04:28 PM  
[image from img429.imageshack.us too old to be available]

I must violate you to protect you!
Bend over for my Weapon of Miniscule Dimension!
 
2005-12-18 11:04:43 PM  
Najaf is considered a holy city, madcat
 
2005-12-18 11:05:37 PM  
2005-12-18 10:48:09 PM TRUTHSEKER

STILL BETTER THEN THAT FLIP FLOPING KETCHEP DUDE

Your comment, combined with your delightfully misspelled name? Priceless...
 
2005-12-18 11:05:55 PM  
Of the 20 major media outlets studied, 18 scored left of center, with CBS' "Evening News," The New York Times and the Los Angeles Times ranking second, third and fourth most liberal behind the news pages of The Wall Street Journal.

Ha. I'd like to know what those "20 major media outlets" were.

Although I don't really doubt that there is more of a left bias in the news. That's not surprising. The right is so full of bullshiat, it's no wonder no-one takes them seriously.
 
2005-12-18 11:06:25 PM  
madcat033
2) Iraq is becoming an islamic state? You mean, it wasn't before? Do you usually spout nonsense?

Iraq under Saddam was basically secular. Islam was the religion of the majority, certainly, but the country wasn't under Shariah.
 
2005-12-18 11:06:27 PM  
The Billdozer

So did the South, and history took care of that. Trust me, Iraq will be something that the world can admire. You just don't hear about it because W is the one leading the charge. If this was a president the media liked, you couldn't go 5 seconds without hearing how great he was.

Yep, the South. Hmm, or maybe just like the Balkans? In actuality I think sticking ourselves in someone elses yard is generally bad policy. However if you are going to do it, you do it to win. Massive assault. Did none of these people read about WWII?

Oh and what we're doing now in Iraq, the Brits tried before. So I wouldn't count on "Iraq will be something that the world can admire" to last too long.

Shoe-shine boy may have been a farking a$$, but he was a secular farking a$$. He had one of the few countries in the Middle East where Islamic law was not welcome. Granted he did it for selfish reasons, a desire not to lose power, but it was secular.

Now when we leave, count in a couple of years at most, it will be an Islamic law society. If we're lucky they will not hate us, but I'm not going to count on it.
 
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