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(RawStory)   Diebold CEO who promised to "deliver" Ohio for Bush resigns amid fraud litigation, concerns over election mishandling   (rawstory.com) divider line 726
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17054 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Dec 2005 at 11:21 AM (8 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2005-12-13 01:43:04 PM
FACTS (from a former insider):

-Wally O'Dell was Diebold's LAST choice as CEO, but no one else wanted the job (because the company was on the verge of collapse), so they got stuck with him.

-Thomas Swidarski, the "new" CEO is ALSO the President of Diebold Elections Systems, Inc. (internally referred to as DESI).

-If you who doubt the validity of the RAW STORY, there is a press release on the Diebold website... here
 
2005-12-13 01:43:50 PM
Like I said, when there is evidence, an investigation, or a more reliable source saying he was under suspicion of rigging the machines (the articles I've read have only said he's a bush supporter CEO, not that he is suspected of actually rigging the machines)

Yes, memo's from Diebold, what else are they gonna say?

Scotter Libby stepped down so he could spend more time with his family!
 
2005-12-13 01:44:44 PM
Hang On Voltaire: Ohio was within the margin error. Exit polls on the left. Real results on the right.


You know what's interesting about those results? In almost every case, the "actual vote tally" added to Bush's tally and subtracted from Kerry's. If it's just that the exit polls are inaccurate, why weren't there more errors in Kerry's favor?

memoryscreen: Yeah, the exit pollsters would NEVER have committed fraud! That is only reserved for Bush and his cronies on election day!

Jeez, you're pathetic. What would their motive for fraud be? Maybe they sent out a memo to the pollsters: "lie and give extra votes to Kerry and you'll get a nice Christmas bonus winkwink nudgenudge." And since none of the pollsters were Republicans, no one sent a copy of the memo to the NY Times.
 
2005-12-13 01:44:52 PM
There's no smoking gun because after firing, Diebold had it melted down and converted into commemorative coins.
 
2005-12-13 01:45:06 PM
vernonFL: We should go back to purple ink stained finger voting like they do in Iraq.


Purple monkey dishwasher?
 
2005-12-13 01:45:53 PM
I, for one, welcome our fraudulent, warmongering overlords.
 
2005-12-13 01:46:53 PM
Hang On Voltaire

Do you happen to have a list of exit poll results and election results for all 50 states? I am wondering because some of the election poll results must have shown a bigger difference for Bush than for Kerry. The chance of all 50 of the exit polls showing bias for Bush by chance alone, but within the margin of error, is 0.00000000000000888%. I would definitely consider that sign of bias, either in the sampling method or as a sign that either the election results or the exit poll data had been tampered with.
 
2005-12-13 01:49:09 PM
Hang On Voltaire summed this entire post up nicely.

I'll say it once like I've said it a thousand times: Who is going to answer exit polls more often? The opposition who was bitter about the last election, or granny conservative?

Non-response bias. Done.

Exit polls mean shiat.
 
2005-12-13 01:50:43 PM
Or the pompous ass who wants to show he's on the winning side.
 
2005-12-13 01:50:58 PM
Goodfella

Not to mention the fact that in every single presidential election in US history that exit polls were used, the exit polls accurately predicted the winner of the election. That is, until 2000 and 2004. In those elections, for the first times ever, the exit polls were different from the actual results, but ONLY IN THE COUNTIES THAT USED THE BLACK BOX ELECTRONIC VOTING MACHINES SUCH AS DIEBOLD.


Where the hell are you getting your information? First off the exit polls were wrong EVERYWHERE but they were generally within the margin of error, please see my previous post. Second, where are you getting that exit polls have always been right except for 2000 and 2004?
1992 national exit poll overstated Democrat Bill Clinton's advantage by 2.5 percentage points, about the same as the Kerry skew.

In 2000, for example, the exit polls overstated Democrat Al Gore's share of the vote by more than one percentage point in about 20 states, while inflating Bush's share in just 10 states.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A64906-2004Nov20.html

In every presidential election since 1988, exit polls have overstated support for Democrats nationally

http://www.cnn.com/2005/ALLPOLITICS/01/19/exit.polls/


So exit polls are correct in every presidential election held except for in the counties where these electronic machines are used, and then, all of a sudden, for no reason in particular, exit polls are off, only in these counties. On machines that have no paper trail, are made by a guy promising to "deliver" the election to a particular candidate, and have their memory wiped clean right after the election. Hmmm. If that isn't a smoking gun, I don't know what is.

Your facts are wrong sweetheart
 
2005-12-13 01:52:04 PM
Exit polls mean shiat...
When you control the
1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111's
& the
0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000's
 
2005-12-13 01:52:12 PM
The fantasy continues.

In 2000, it was blacks being kept away from the polls by 'police dogs and batons' when, more likely, too many couldn't read the ballots. Though you forget that Gore didn't even win his home state!

In 2004, pre-programmed voting machines turned the election for Bush and made their manufacturer a huge profit doing so. Though you forget that this has been investigated in every conceivable way and found baseless.

When will you ever face it, Winston Howell III (Sorry, I mean John Kerry, who served in Vietnam) just didn't make enough people think he was the better man. Too much flip-flopping, too arrogant, an unhinged aristocrat wife and a condescending style; that's waht did it, not any 'machine'.


You are going to have the SAME problem in '08 when Hillary stands for the Democrats. She'll lose in a Mondale-type landslide and no doubt there will be a grand 'conspiracy' behind it.

Democrats are pathetic; absolutely pathetic.
 
2005-12-13 01:52:53 PM
Good Christ nwarlick, are you advocating a THIRD land war in Asia?!

 
2005-12-13 01:53:21 PM
BlueGargoyle

Two points about your facts... just to be fair

First... Hoover had an equal decline in household incomes in two years that Bush has had in his five.

Second... if you take Bush's borrowing in adjusted dollars it still makes him the President who has borrowed the most money in history... but he is only borrowed about 50% more than the total ammount borrowed since the begining of WWII.
 
2005-12-13 01:53:25 PM
nwarlick: It wasn't the blowjob, it was his purgery that turned him into a total asshat. Don't be ignorant.


So that's why Bill lost the weight.
 
2005-12-13 01:53:29 PM
DigitalReligion
I'll say it once like I've said it a thousand times: Who is going to answer exit polls more often? The opposition who was bitter about the last election, or granny conservative?

Nice theory.

Of course, proof is a little harder to deliver, isn't it?

(Or did the marching orders go out before the election to refuse to talk to exit pollsters to throw the preliminary picture off :D )
 
2005-12-13 01:53:51 PM
Exit poll data tampered with? It's some big conspiracy to change the exit poll data to make it look like Kerry would win and then make Bush win in actually to draw controversy!

What we need to look at is exit poll data in Diebold-using states vs. non-Diebold and see if they're within the margin of error.

Isn't that what this is all about anyway?
 
2005-12-13 01:54:07 PM
krysith
Hang On Voltaire
Do you happen to have a list of exit poll results and election results for all 50 states? I am wondering because some of the election poll results must have shown a bigger difference for Bush than for Kerry. The chance of all 50 of the exit polls showing bias for Bush by chance alone, but within the margin of error, is 0.00000000000000888%. I would definitely consider that sign of bias, either in the sampling method or as a sign that either the election results or the exit poll data had been tampered with.


Here are the exit polls for mostly swing states. http://www.slate.com/id/2109053/

Where are you getting your math?
 
2005-12-13 01:54:15 PM
Well, debating who is more likely to answer pollsters, or who the pollsters are more likely to ask, that's pretty pointless since you can't quantify any of it. You'll simply end up with the same opinion you started with.

O the other hand, krysith's statement in regard to how systematic bias can be evident despite margins of error, that would be pretty strong stuff, if substantiated.
 
2005-12-13 01:55:56 PM
Vet_Curm,

You're entire argument is based on exit polls which don't adhere to the normal standards of statistics. There is no simple random sample taken, there is a shiat ton of non-response bias. They're for the media to call elections early, not to be taken at face value. The exit polls were in their margins of error.

Come on, you should know about margins of error! When bush's approval goes up thats whats always claimed! "Well its in the margin of error!"
 
2005-12-13 01:56:25 PM
Exit polls are a red herring in this argument (and Hang On Voltaire is doing a great job preventing anyone from talking about the REAL issue).

A verifiable (i.e. countable) paper trail should be desired by anyone looking for accurate election results. What the Diebold machines could give us is an error-proof interface to help generate a paper ballot, as well as an instant way to count the votes. If someone wants a recount, the paper votes can be counted (and they sure as hell should equal the electronic total if everything is on the up and up).

No, this isn't about some sort of receipt that you take home with you after voting to show who you voted for. That's another red herring. This is about a physically VERIFIABLE way to count votes.

Everybody wins!

/Except the Republicans, I guess
 
2005-12-13 01:56:48 PM
Hang On Voltaire: Your facts are wrong sweetheart


 
2005-12-13 01:57:51 PM
bark_at_the_moonbat

Wow, I didn't know Michelle Malkin trolled at Fark! Welcome aboard you racist asshole!
 
2005-12-13 01:59:19 PM
bark_at_the_moonbat
Account created: 2005-12-11 13:37:53


holy crap, what is this, are people getting paid to create multiple accounts and write shiat? or are they doing it on their free time???

i hate to shout conspiracy but something is rotten in the state of fark.

mods listen up! we need you to restrict posting right until after 2 weeks of account creation, fark is being invaded by shills

/end rant.
 
2005-12-13 01:59:27 PM
 
2005-12-13 01:59:40 PM
You have a legitimate topic of "fishyness" in the Diebold case and you let the Bush-bots distract you into getting into the deficit and war. And liberals and Democrats wonder how nothing ever sticks to Republicans. Take some deep breaths and stay focused.
 
2005-12-13 02:00:24 PM
Seems like HOV has articles to back up my little "theory".
 
2005-12-13 02:00:33 PM
"In 2004, pre-programmed voting machines turned the election for Bush and made their manufacturer a huge profit doing so. Though you forget that this has been investigated in every conceivable way and found baseless."

Really? i wasnt aware of this... could you please provide a link?

True Kerry sucks, so does Bush, and if we were living in a democracy we might have had a 3rd choice.
 
2005-12-13 02:02:21 PM
If exit polls are a red herring in this, why is that the main evidence of foul play from the Democrats?
 
2005-12-13 02:02:46 PM
Gosling

There's no smoking gun because after firing, Diebold had it melted down and converted into commemorative coins.

Tee hee! You know what that simpering douche Catherine Harris has one her congressional desk? A bronze of a hand holding a ballot with hanging chads.

YES the ruling class hates you, thinks you are boorish idiots and will mock you to your face if you paid any attention.
 
2005-12-13 02:03:45 PM
Chewd, we live in a democratic republic with a de-facto two main party system.
 
2005-12-13 02:04:21 PM
Hang On Voltaire

Swing states only is a partial data set. I asked for more data, which would be more informative. Would you like me to recalculate based upon that limited sample?

I agree with you that arguing about how bad this bad data actually is, is futile. What I'd like to know is how you stand on paper trails for elections, which is what I really care about. We can't change the past, but are you for a better future?
 
2005-12-13 02:04:35 PM
Code_Archeologist

Two points about your facts... just to be fair

First... Hoover had an equal decline in household incomes in two years that Bush has had in his five.

Fair enough. Worth pointing out of course that Hoover also, was a Republican. Party of fiscal responsibility indeed.


Second... if you take Bush's borrowing in adjusted dollars it still makes him the President who has borrowed the most money in history... but he is only borrowed about 50% more than the total ammount borrowed since the begining of WWII.

In adjusted dollars that might dilute the point somewhat, but i still wouldn't want to be known as the president who borrowed 50% more than the total ammount borrowed in the last 60+ years.

In any case, it seems nwarlick disappeared on us. So much for the growing economy.
 
2005-12-13 02:05:15 PM
Jessie Jackson's (I refuse to use the silly 'Reverend' title that is only attached to left-wing black preachers) claims about Florida 2000 were racist, much like his entire record and that of the Democratic party.

One day blacks will wake up and realize that the caretaking of their 'community' that has been entrusted to the Democratic party has been nothing but a horrific tragedy.


John Kerry, who served in Vietnam, wouldn't have changed that fact and it will ultimayely HELP America's black population that he lost.

If you are a Democrat, then YOU are the racist.
 
2005-12-13 02:05:30 PM
knobmaker
You know what's interesting about those results? In almost every case, the "actual vote tally" added to Bush's tally and subtracted from Kerry's. If it's just that the exit polls are inaccurate, why weren't there more errors in Kerry's favor?


That is a legitimate and good question. Since 1988 the exit polls have overstated the democrat candidate's support. This has generally been attributed to whom the pollsters approach. They usually oversample women and young people.
 
2005-12-13 02:06:52 PM
And contrary to Republican claims, the economy was not already in a recession before Bush took office- the National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER), an independent group that tracks the business cycle, determined that the recession started in March 2001, after Bush had already taken office in is first term.

I lost 14k trading stocks after the "bubble burst" while Clinton was in office. That was the begining of the recession. Don't you know by now that you can make statistics say whatever you want? I'm not defending either one of the those asshat presidents. Think for yourself and stop leaning to the left. Lesson over
 
2005-12-13 02:07:08 PM
"In 2004, pre-programmed voting machines turned the election for Bush and made their manufacturer a huge profit doing so. Though you forget that this has been investigated in every conceivable way and found baseless."


Except for the fact that it hasn't been investigated at all, you're entirely right.

One "conceivable way" for it to be investigated is for the source code to be examined and tested. Which Diebold has fought tooth and nail against in every court of law, and find themselves losing at an increasing rate.
 
2005-12-13 02:07:16 PM
Wait, am I reading this correctly? Some people here seem to think that there's nothing wrong with the partisan CEO of a black box voting machine company promising to deliver a state for his candidate, and then refusing to deliver the source code after challenged?

Cause everyone cheats, right? Or, because there's no proof, thanks to the lack of paper trail?

Hmmmm....

Might want to adjust that attitude before you go spreading "democracy" around the globe....
 
2005-12-13 02:07:24 PM
DigitalReligion: When bush's approval goes up thats whats always claimed! "Well its in the margin of error!"

it is if its happening now.
..just saying.
 
2005-12-13 02:07:39 PM
Fart
 
2005-12-13 02:08:48 PM
If exit polls are a red herring in this, why is that the main evidence of foul play from the Democrats?

If the tables were turned and the CEO of voting machines used in a certain state guaranteed a victory for say Clinton and it went against normally reliable exit poll numbers and there was no paper trail to prove one way or the other...
I'm sure the neo-cons would just sit back and say Oh well, sounds fair to me!
 
2005-12-13 02:09:30 PM
bark_at_the_moonbat: f you are a Democrat, then YOU are the racist.

hahaha. why???
 
2005-12-13 02:09:49 PM
Bah, this is just the politicizing of crime. I mean, the criminalising of politics. No wait,.....I just don't know anymore.
 
2005-12-13 02:09:52 PM
I can't say if their was fraud or not. I do think that it should be looked into.
 
2005-12-13 02:09:53 PM
Oh sure, he resigns now. Fargin icehole.


At least now we might have a chance for an actual election in 2008 instead of an appointment...
 
2005-12-13 02:10:05 PM
not that it matters when we are talking voting fraud
 
2005-12-13 02:10:22 PM
krysith

Swing states only is a partial data set. I asked for more data, which would be more informative. Would you like me to recalculate based upon that limited sample?
I agree with you that arguing about how bad this bad data actually is, is futile. What I'd like to know is how you stand on paper trails for elections, which is what I really care about. We can't change the past, but are you for a better future?


ALL the states generally followed the regular polling data. http://www.electoral-vote.com/2004/info/state-graphs.html I have no problem with a paper trail although it is generally useless.
 
2005-12-13 02:10:33 PM
I support our troops and presidant 100%
Bush is the best King yet!
 
2005-12-13 02:10:56 PM
moerty, a wild-eyed lefty trying to silence a conservative speaker, imagine that...

Who is it that you think I am, oh wise one?
 
2005-12-13 02:11:47 PM
GodsTumor

If the tables were turned and the CEO of voting machines used in a certain state guaranteed a victory for say Clinton and it went against normally reliable exit poll numbers and there was no paper trail to prove one way or the other...
I'm sure the neo-cons would just sit back and say Oh well, sounds fair to me!


but but but Clinton
 
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