diebold also had all it's employees ss numbers and private data pilfered from a laptop ( including mine ) friggin bastards. WHY is everyone's SS number on a laptop. WHY.

ChuckRoddy: For those of you who think Bush committed fraud, you have to beleive that no one else at all had a hand in the Ohio election, which is not true, since those votes are tallied by hundreds of people. Each station needs monitored, sorted, reported, and calibration (as in what the ballot looks like A) BUSH B) KERRY) by the local staff. There would have to be a LOT of people in his pocket.

You're not very imaginative or aware of how the election process works. There's not someone looking at the totals as people go in to vote and watching them tick up one by one... People vote, they leave, and at the end of the day, the machine spits out something like "Bush 51% 127,286 - Kerry 49% 119,206". So, what's to prevent a piece of code being stuck in there that give Bush an additional percent and subtracts the same from Kerry? The vote total would be the same, everything would appear normal, just that the exit polls wouldn't agree with the counted total anymore...
And with no paper trail, you couldn't recount to be sure...
And with closed source machines, you can't have an independent team of programmers check for holes like that.

So, you just have to trust that the guy who promised to deliver the state to Bush is completely non-partisan and honest.

That said, short of a confession, there's no way to prove anything, since there was no paper trail and the machines have been wiped.

/enjoy your democracy!

"it also makes it EASIER for the 100,000 or so outsiders with the skillz to launch hacker attacks and cause fraud."

So Republicans hax0r3d teh gibson and stolez teh election?

damonkboy

So my friend is BradBlog, Capitol Hill Blue and Michaelmoore.com? ummmm, no. Every "news" org has a slant, even the AP and Reuters.

Moral_Purity go bye-bye?

memoryscreen:

Did exit pollsters have anything to gain from fraud? Who had ANYTHING to gain by committing vote fraud. DUH. You need to nurture your higher cognitive thought processes, or maybe you just lack a forebrain.

Login: moral_purity
Account created: 2005-12-06 12:32:21

do you guys really think making a new login every month makes it look like you have a bunch of people supporting your insane rantings?

it doesnt...

I'm personally of the belief that the issue is being confused, while I do not trust the security or viability of the voting products Diebold makes, or the ability to fault continually in favor of one party instead of the other, the reason the CEO stepped down is because of the flubbed revenue reporting for the ATM division and not the voting machine division.

The only question you have to ask yourself is why isn't a company that makes the machines we use to cast our votes a compitent company with a compitent CEO? It isn't an issue of political leaning. If you have faith in Diebold machines, you're not paying attention. What if the new Diebold CEO is a democrat?

You let me know when someone is convicted, ok? Until then, just stfu with all the left-wing conspiracy theories to compensate for close losses in the past two elections. Jesus H. Christ, how many recounts do you people need? Bush won - get over it. Better luck next time. At least Michael Moore will have succeeded in his "neverending quest to get Bush out of the white house" next time.

thanks for reaffirming what I just said, ya dip

GoldSpider
Capital Hill Blue isn't left-leaning. They are pretty equal in bashing both sides. If we supported them when they were ripping apart Clinton for his sex scandals then it is hard to be mad at them for exposing Bush's increased proclivity for anger.

Also, if you had RTFA you would know he wasn't there since he stated he "talk[ed] to three people present for the meeting that day and they all confirm..."

Read, think, post. Maybe throw in an extra "think" in there in your case.

You make the Right look bad.

Just curious: is there room anymore for someone who hates the Cheney Junta, despises everything they stand for including the mere possibility that they used diebold to rig an election, Iraq, and yet...

Is against welfare, doesn't care too much when someone like Tookie is executed, is pro choice, pro business, pure capitalist (capitalism the way it should be...not the inefficient market system we have including protectionism, special interest favoritisim, and social engineering via fearmongering)?

I used to call myself a republican with a small r...but anything short of rabid devotion to Faux News is castigated by the neocons as unpatriotic (quick someone post the Goering picture).

My country is very ill, apparently, and it's population has lost the will to think rationally.

moral_purity

Cue more whining of democrats who just cant face that they are still irrelavint.
You lost, get over it. save your outrage for tookie williams or something.

/honestly sick and tired of libtard whining
//still not sick of slashies!!1!1!!

the only thing worse than the way some liberals choose to whine about their poor showing rather than address their core problems is the conserva(insert childish name twist here) handle their win.

/sore winners are the lowest of the low
//every liberal remember that when the country swings back your way (with all this great republican leadership that's going down you wont have to wait too long, I think)
///If ya'll win next time around there will be many bonus points for not being a bunch of jerks about it

"when they were ripping apart Clinton for his sex scandals "

Ok so Capital Hill Blue isn't biased because they criticized Clinton's sex scandals? I'm sorry, but EVERYONE criticized his sex scandals, it was the most embarrassing thing to happen to the White House...ever (seeing how there wasn't much coverage of presidential activity in the past.)

How can Dylan Klebold deliver Ohio, anyway?

Born Slippy

nothing like a good Red/Blue flamewar to warm you on a cold December day



Red/Blue?

Floor humping guy = credibility

Republicans gloating in 3, 2...oh, fark, I'm too late.

Funny, the post got baleeted before the poster's identity was outed.

Almost like this was some kind of game.

H31N0US: Just curious: is there room anymore for someone who hates the Cheney Junta, despises everything they stand for including the mere possibility that they used diebold to rig an election, Iraq, and yet...

Is against welfare, doesn't care too much when someone like Tookie is executed, is pro choice, pro business, pure capitalist (capitalism the way it should be...not the inefficient market system we have including protectionism, special interest favoritisim, and social engineering via fearmongering)?

Try Libertarian, hippie.

/or Jeffersonian Republicanism, which is about the same thing.

You let me know when someone is convicted, ok? Until then, just stfu with all the left-wing conspiracy theories to compensate for close losses in the past two elections. Jesus H. Christ, how many recounts do you people need?

Hey moran, this isn't about left vs right, or Bush winning. It's about the possibility that these machines may skew an election. If that doesn't bother or concern you, you need to give your head a shake.

It's only the most important decision your country makes every four years. But you could care less whether it's done properly, or whether one man could create false results based on the party he likes?

Boojum2k: Right. Think we found the leftist equivalent of the floor-humping guy.

Nothing will ever top floor-humping guy.



Marvel as he "humps".

Hang On Voltaire
But the exit polls were wrong in EVERY state.

And those states which had the largest margins of error were using which methods for their citizens to cast their votes?

nwarlick: it was the most embarrassing thing to happen to the White House...ever


yeah Watergate was nothin compared to a blowjob...

I heard Kennedy was shot by aliens too. I read it on a blog so it must be true.

Capitol Hill Blue is a partisan hack paper, just like WND, Fox News and the Washington Times. This does not mean that if a story appears there, it is untrue, it just means you need to find a second, more reliable source to verify what you see there (try the Internets).

As an IT security professional, Diebolds systems scare the hell out of me. They are completely un-auditable. As Monthenor points out (I hate it when such an obvious idea occurs to someone else before me), we have the technology, and no one would tolerate these transaction being un-auditable (that is why cash registers were invented!), why do we tolerate it with our votes!

For what it's worth, Fahrenheit 9/11 contained no FACTUAL errors. Moores big sin is that of omission. Take his movies for what they are worth.

Maybe we can give Wally the Presidential Medal of Freedom?

TV Nation was still brilliant, even if it leaned way the hell left!

nwarlick
You let me know when someone is convicted, ok? Until then, just stfu with all the left-wing conspiracy theories to compensate for close losses in the past two elections. Jesus H. Christ, how many recounts do you people need? Bush won - get over it. Better luck next time. At least Michael Moore will have succeeded in his "neverending quest to get Bush out of the white house" next time.


you know what, i'm not done with your dumb ass yet. Unless you were being sarcastic - then you really did play off the issue as partisan and being a whiner and as being part of a general irrational complaint from the "losing side". You damned dirty idiot. When there's a conviction, let you know? How are we going to bring justice to the real issues when we have idiots like you and your television-news watching friends (DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS ALIKE, BELIEVE IT OR NOT!!!!1!11) dictating what's important in terms of what's entertaining. Diebold corporation and vote scandal can be written off as unimportant and unentertaining by the news corps because it might be hard to make good television out of something like that, other than writing it off as a partisan issue and letting truth-seeking individuals such as yourself set sail to the issue, out to sea and forgotten with your logic. Sorry friend, you're not thinking critically enough.


/television got ya down>?

Oh, how I love the sound of corporate doublespeak in the morning.

Swidarski said. "We are beginning to make progress to improve some of our performance issues, reduce our cost structure by addressing inefficiencies in our manufacturing supply chain and software development processes, and instill price discipline throughout the company."

WTF?????? Never could understand what that means and I suspect those who utter it don't either.

Dubya's_Coke_Dealer

Monthenor - you think the current administration WANTS the paper trail and all that easy stuff? Truth and the Constitution do not donate to the Republican party

/not the Democratic party either.

Except that IIRC, it was the Dems who stopped Diebold from being used in recent elections here in CA. Hmm.

Touch screens with a paper trail IS easy to do. And any party that pushes so hard against that has a clear reason to do so.

"Republicans gloating in 3, 2...oh, fark, I'm too late"

Liberal conspiracy theories and whining in.....need I say it?

"yeah Watergate was nothin compared to a blowjob..."

It wasn't the blowjob, it was his purgery that turned him into a total asshat. Don't be ignorant.

Exit polls, schmexit polls.

Exit polls are skewed data. Not everyone wants to take an exit poll.

I wouldn't take an exit poll:
"Who did you vote for?"
"My vote, my business: f*ck off. It's a secret ballot for a reason. You'll find out in 12 hours or so who I voted for."

In fact, I daresay only the rabid political activists are the ones taking the exit polls. The moderates, independents, and swing voters (i.e. the ones who decided the election) aren't participating in the exit polls.

Theaetetus: Try Libertarian, hippie.

It was a rhetorical question.

/not a hippie, by a loooong shot.

First we lost the guaranteed rights to trial, an attorney, and imprisonment without torture. Now we have CEO's of voting machine companies promising to deliver elections.

At what point do we start grabbing muskets?
(I think we're past it.)

shaneo -

Yes, when there is a conviction, or even a trial with EVIDENCE pointing to voter fraud, you let me know.

Last time I checked, evidence FAR outweighed liberal conspiracy theories from farkers. It's called a justice system, and our nation relies pretty heavily on the fact that a person is innocent until proven guilty.

This is further extended to the fact that a person is INNOCENT BEFORE BEING BROUGHT UP ON CHARGES.

So how about you go find some hard evidence - rather than a site that quotes personal blogs and sells anti-bush t-shirts, and stfu.

Why aren't the liberals complaining about some other state? Because Ohio was close and liberals are bitter.

You lost twice in a row, it happens. Stop making yourselves look like paranoid asshats with no evidence conspiracy theorizing and MAYBE PEOPLE WILL VOTE FOR YOU.

bugman26
As an IT security professional, Diebolds systems scare the hell out of me. They are completely un-auditable.

Shiat. Who the hell would design a system which should be secure using Access as a database?

They are either incompetant assholes, or competent criminals.

sonnyboy11:
Touch screens with a paper trail IS easy to do. And any party that pushes so hard against that has a clear reason to do so.

Yeah... Now if only we could find a company that makes some sort of touch-screen paper-receipt device, perhaps that you'd use with a bank card, that could reprogram them for elections.

/I'm looking at you, Diebold

His resignation, and his new employment as a "consultant" to Haliburton/Bechtel/Carlyle flew past each other at the speed of light so that the transition was instantaneous.

In case anyone has considered the presence or absence of a "paper trail" as indicative of truth or fraud should pause, and consider: wouldn't a really clever person permit paper backup to forced on them over their objections (rather than suggest it)? How well this works:
1. "it must be honest - they didn't want it ('don't fling me in that briar patch')"
2. of course, now it will be more expensive
3. if the paper and electronic versions agree, no fraud exists.

Complete crap, yes? The paper will simply repeat whatever bias the software imposes on the actual count.

I see Hang On Voltaire is still spinning his alternate reality.

You use a Diebold ATM almost every day.

You are asked if you want a receipt.

Yeah, Raw Story is pretty much the NewsMax of the Left. I cringe whenever I see them sourced, even for stories like this that are verifiable elsewhere.

Resigns from company according to a blog site about insider trading.

Reglar-Roger: At what point do we start grabbing muskets?

It's too late. Your puny weapons are no match for APCs, tanks, etc. The second amendment meant something when a citizen's militia could be as well armed as the Government's troops, but now? Pretty useless.

bugman26
As an IT security professional, Diebolds systems scare the hell out of me. They are completely un-auditable. As Monthenor points out (I hate it when such an obvious idea occurs to someone else before me), we have the technology, and no one would tolerate these transaction being un-auditable (that is why cash registers were invented!), why do we tolerate it with our votes!


there it is. no paper trails, no record or source showing you that your vote counted for what it is you intended it to - a bush voter, 1 vote. a kerry voter, 1 vote. If bush won the election, then I want to understand that the nation drove itself into these circumstances. If bush didn't win the election (it wouldn't be the fist time!), then I can attribute that even more to the injustice that America is - the fact that it's someboyd we didn't intend to take office, numerically, and they're misleading what america has spoken for. I want a voting process I can have faith in, and illegally electing dems is *gasp* an equatable offense! We need justice living in the most powerful democracy on earth, and letting television dictate what's important, letting the mainstream media overlook certain important threats to our way of life and *another gasp* our freedoms! - is in no way okay. I think a good example is how some of us buy into gov't propaganda about spreading democracy and freedom and liberty....while at the same time, through the USA PATRIOT act, ours have erroded to a level that many of us are COMPLETELY unawares. So. Again, all you fun-loving entertainment-seeking television and mainstream news enthusiasts, please use your human brains and think.

love, shane

Vet_Curm
And those states which had the largest margins of error were using which methods for their citizens to cast their votes?

Ohio was within the margin error. Exit polls on the left. Real results on the right.

Florida
Kerry 51 47
Bush 49 52

Ohio
Kerry 51 49
Bush 49 51

Michigan
Kerry 52 51
Bush 46 48
Nader 1

Pennsylvania
Kerry 53 51
Bush 46 49

Iowa
Kerry 50 49
Bush 49 50

Wisconsin
Kerry 51 50
Bush 48 49
Nader 1

Minnesota
Kerry 52 51
Bush 46 48
Nader 2

New Hampshire
Kerry 54 50
Bush 44 49
Nader 1

Exit polls source
http://www.slate.com/id/2109053/

Election results source
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004

There are plenty more states that are all wrong but you can look for yourself.

Boojum2kHmm, a "news site" that has an ad selling "Anti-Bush Gifts and Gear."
Someone is gonna have at lotta useless Anti Bush inventory.
//wondering if Jeb will run for national office

Reglar: How are we going to defeat our own military? And trust me, Bush will call it up within 10 seconds of formal rebellion being declared. And all the military-types I know think Bush is a hero, war is peace, freedom is slavery, and ignorance is strenght.

kitabel: Complete crap, yes? The paper will simply repeat whatever bias the software imposes on the actual count.

No, because the paper is verified by the person voting... And then put in a lock box. If fraud is alleged, you count the total in the lock box and compare it to the computer count.

Hang On Voltaire: Do you notice that in every single example you cited, Kerry's number went down while Bush's went up?

nwarlickOk so Capital Hill Blue isn't biased because they criticized Clinton's sex scandals? I'm sorry, but EVERYONE criticized his sex scandals, it was the most embarrassing thing to happen to the White House...ever (seeing how there wasn't much coverage of presidential activity in the past.)

Watergate? Whiskey Ring? Teapot Dome? Jeffersons sex scandal? The XYZ Correspondence?


Learn your American History and Politics a little better before saying that.

I'm sorry, but EVERYONE criticized his sex scandals, it was the most embarrassing thing to happen to the White House...ever

Since when do the Neo-cons worry about how the public feels about the president? I guess it's only when the Dem's our in power? Other wise its he has a plan and its not a popularity contest

Much more embarrassing then...
Lying to go to war, outing a CIA agent, Abu Ghraib, Katrina / crony debacle...

Sparhawk.: But worse than luddites are people who just throw technology at a problem and hope it magically goes away

I blame sales people, always claiming their line "represents" the latest and greatest thing. And the buyer hears what he wants to hear, that it "is" the greatest thing...).

Or even more in(darth)sidiously, "This product is made in Ohio by Ohioans, so if the State of Ohio doesn't use it, how can we expect to sell them anywhere else?"

And the polititally-appointed official ("elected" or not, doesn't matter when the two big established churches, er. I mean parties are involved) hears "use this product or lose contributions, elections and tax dollars".