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(UPI)   Study shows that large groups of people are less likely to help someone in trouble in a public place. Jackie Chiles heard screaming, "Have you ever heard of a guilty bystander?"   (upi.com) divider line 98
    More: Interesting  
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4036 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Dec 2005 at 6:24 AM (9 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2005-12-06 12:08:24 AM  
This should be pretty obvious. The more people there are around, the more likely it is that people will think "someone else" will do something. It's classic crowd mentality, and virtually every human being on earth would fall into it.
 
2005-12-06 01:48:40 AM  
Naw, don't buy it. The more people around increases the odds someone with balls will step up to the plate.
 
2005-12-06 05:33:54 AM  
It's not only that the responsibility to act is shared by more people, and thus each individual feels like he/she has less resonsibility to act, it's also due to something called pluralistic ignorance, which means that in a stressful situation where we don't know what to do we look to others for clues on how to react. If everyone else is calm, you stay calm too, if no one knows how to react, then everyone will stay calm and there will be no reaction, even though they might possibly be in a dangerous situation. However, it's usually enough that one person steps up for everyone else to follow, or if the victim specifically asks one of the bystanders for help. We are only simple herd animals after all, the amount of power we have is scary.
 
2005-12-06 06:26:41 AM  
Uh, psych people have known this since the 60s.
Kitty Genovese: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitty_Genovese
 
2005-12-06 06:27:50 AM  
OLDED
 
2005-12-06 06:30:11 AM  
This is old news. It was in my psychology textbook when I was in high school.
 
2005-12-06 06:30:32 AM  
Not if I'm in the crowd. I'm Batman, baby!
 
2005-12-06 06:30:49 AM  
PopeBenedictXVI: Uh, psych people have known this since the 60s.
Kitty Genovese: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitty_Genovese


Oops, looks like I should read the comments before I add to them. ;)
 
2005-12-06 06:31:11 AM  
so like, if someone's being raped in the middle of a group...everyone just watches or what?
 
2005-12-06 06:32:18 AM  
Obvious tag trumps Interesting tag.
 
2005-12-06 06:33:33 AM  
Modern society puts a high premium on 'live and let live' and 'mind your own damn business', so I reckon people are afraid to step up sometimes cos they don't wanna look like interfering busybodies.
 
2005-12-06 06:35:13 AM  
Is this article from the seventies? In other news: velcro invented.
 
2005-12-06 06:37:18 AM  
5h4wn
Yes, actually. That exact scenario happened a few years ago, I dont remember the exact circumstances but I think it was even caught on tape.

farking sickening.
 
2005-12-06 06:38:19 AM  
5h4wn

Takes photos with their phones, is, I believe, the what you are looking for.
 
2005-12-06 06:43:11 AM  
heh I wouldn't help someone even if it were only me and him. Altruism can kiss my ass and the law very rarely, be it civil or criminal law, imposes a duty of care on a stranger. Indeed, there are a number of doctrines named specifically for the rescuer situation.
 
2005-12-06 06:44:35 AM  
I'm way too tired, but I wish someone would photoshop Kitty Genovese rising from her grave and holding a sign with the obvious tag on it.
 
2005-12-06 06:51:15 AM  
Excellent Seinfeld reference submitter



/farkode is your god
 
2005-12-06 06:54:26 AM  
mugen.,

Good Samaritan laws by state: http://www.aedhelp.com/legal/downloads/aed_legislation_summary.pdf
 
2005-12-06 06:57:37 AM  
mugen

There are lots of things we arent obliged to do, but we do them anyway, cos it's 'right' (whether you're a god-botherer or not). Wouldnt you like to think someone would help you? Or your Mum? Or your kid?
 
2005-12-06 06:57:57 AM  
Modern society puts a high premium on 'live and let live' and 'mind your own damn business'
Please don't damn the rest of us with these peculiarly American/Libertarian ideas. Out in the civilised world, many of us actually believe we should look after one another.
 
2005-12-06 07:00:19 AM  
gwowen

way to jump to the wrong conclusion. I also 'believe we should look after one another', and I'm neither a Libertarian or an American, I just believe it's no one's damn business if I'm gay, or drunk.
 
2005-12-06 07:02:34 AM  
Aias

'Good samaritan' in the context of negligence does not mean that a duty of care is imposed, but rather refers to statutory/otherwise granting of limited civil immunity where a cause of action would otherwise arise due to the acts of the rescuer in the course of providing assistance. For example, see part 8 of the Civil Liability Act (NSW), which is essentially mirrored in all Australian jurisdictions.
 
2005-12-06 07:03:43 AM  
"Please don't damn the rest of us with these peculiarly American/Libertarian ideas. Out in the civilised world, many of us actually believe we should look after one another."

Libertarians can believe in looking out for each other. Some of us just think it shouldn't be through the government.
 
2005-12-06 07:03:43 AM  
I can't wait to see this tested at the next Fark party. "No, waitress, I didn't try to pinch your butt. Somebody back me up on this ..."
 
2005-12-06 07:06:51 AM  
People turn to sheep in a crowd. At the local movie theater, the picture was out of focus. I waited for a couple of minutes before I realized no one was going to do anything. Every one was waiting for someone else to do something. I got up and talked to the manager and got it fixed. The next time there was a problem (the sound was garbled) I didn't wait because I knew no one else was going to complain. If I ever come across a situation where someone in trouble I will help because I know no one else will. Every one is waiting for someone else to take the lead (read responsibility).
 
2005-12-06 07:07:25 AM  
and lately they're mostly staged events to get you to forget about your wallet pocket... same as london 1820
 
2005-12-06 07:11:51 AM  
mugen.,

Some states include a provision requiring bystanders to assist if able. For instance, Minnesota's Law is twofold, the first reading,

Duty to Assist: A person at the scene of an emergency who knows that another person is exposed to or has suffered grave physical harm shall, to the extent that the person can do so without danger or peril to self or others, give reasonable assistance to the exposed person. Reasonable assistance may include obtaining or attempting to obtain aid from law enforcement or medical personnel. A person who violates this subdivision is guilty of a petty misdemeanor.
 
2005-12-06 07:13:15 AM  
I hated 1820s london, i haven't been back since.

/also Like paris in 1790s.
//Ever been to 2050s New York? freaking wierd shiat.
 
2005-12-06 07:18:07 AM  
Why should I help some other person? Most people get in trouble largely because of things THEY did. Personal responsibility, there's a concept, people! Get your SELF out of trouble, and I will do the same.

Just kidding, and I'm glad to see there's only one person here who seems to seriously think like this. >:(

An example of a Canadian "Good Samaritan" law:

http://www.qp.gov.bc.ca/statreg/stat/G/96172_01.htm

"A person who renders emergency medical services or aid to an ill, injured or unconscious person, at the immediate scene of an accident or emergency that has caused the illness, injury or unconsciousness, is not liable for damages for injury to or death of that person caused by the person's act or omission in rendering the medical services or aid unless that person is grossly negligent."

This only specifies emergency medical care, but I can't imagine someone successfully suing their rescuer if they were injured escaping from a criminal, for instance.
 
2005-12-06 07:22:24 AM  
Aias

I, fortunately, do not live in Minnesota, or any other US jurisdiction for that matter :) I can safely say that there is no duty in mine, and the courts continue to affirm the reluctance to impose any general duties 'at large'.
 
2005-12-06 07:22:58 AM  
This study obviously wasn't done in a USA Southern concealed carry state. Those boys will take any opportunity to draw Iron. A study needs to be done with crowds of rednecks to see, 1: how many will draw their weapon, and 2: what percentage will simply shoot the perpetrator, and 3: what percentage of the time will the situation break down into an orgy of the shooting, and stabbing and biting and kicking FLAVEN
 
2005-12-06 07:30:17 AM  
mugen.,

So it only covers me if someone has been in a car crash then...
It looks like the Scots have a similar law on the books as well.
 
2005-12-06 07:30:23 AM  
BigBooper
Now you wouldn't be trying to thin the numbers of said rednecks with this study would you?

/how perfectly evil.
 
2005-12-06 07:36:15 AM  
mugen.,
It looks like a few countries DO require bystanders to assist.

Belgium, Czechoslovakia, Denmark, France, Germany, Holland, Hungary, Italy, the Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Russia, Switzerland, and Turkey all impose criminal penalties for failure to engage in "easy rescue." See Alexander Rudzinski, The Duty to Rescue: A Comparative Analysis, in The Good Samaritan; John Dawson, Rewards for the Rescue of Human Life, in The Good Samaritan (surveying European legislation).

The Netherlands first incorporated the duty to rescue into legislation in 1866. In France, the failure to render easy aid to a stranger can lead to the imposition of a maximum of five years incarceration plus a fine of up to 50,000 francs. Article 63, Criminal Code (introduced by decree of June 25, 1945).
 
2005-12-06 07:41:20 AM  
Even if someone was in serious trouble through completely their own fault, you'd be a grade A asshat if you could help them and you didnt.
 
2005-12-06 07:42:58 AM  
Dubya's_Coke_Dealer

Dude if you were batman you couldn't do anything becuase you were sorrounded by a large group and you couldn't change. That why I always go by the saying "selfishness is a good trait, the best way you can help someone is to tell them to help themselves."
 
2005-12-06 07:43:32 AM  
It has been stated several times that this is a well known phenomenon. I think something that has added to it over the years though is the media. They have instilled in people that if you help you are likely to get shot and if you don't get shot you'll probably get sued - by the victim.

So we have the sheep mentality, but you also have the media eroding people's belief that other people are generally good and deserve to be saved.

The flipside is the obedience to authority (IE: Stanley Milgram experiments). Yet none of these tests are ever 100% - meaning we'll always have people that try to do the right thing.

If humans were completely predictable the stock market would be a lot easier to figure out ;)
 
2005-12-06 07:47:15 AM  
See this is why I wish there were people who'd actually DO something about this. I'm thinking two guys. Maybe Irish guys, cause Irish people can scrap when it comes down to it. Yeah, two Irish guys with a psycho yet cool dad. And maybe throw some Italian idiot in the middle of it.

Yeah, if only there was something like that...

/one of my favorite movies
//even if Troy Duffy is an egotistical douchebag
///keep dreaming, the sequel will never happen.
////Boondock Slashies
 
2005-12-06 07:48:19 AM  
I guess it kinda depends on the situation, doesn't it? After all, most people want to help others, but few are willing to get hurt or killed for a total stranger.
 
2005-12-06 07:51:00 AM  
this is old news, it is basic social psychology
 
2005-12-06 07:58:31 AM  
I've worked in pre-hospital care, so i got to experience this sheep effect first hand. People will just crowd around an injured person, sometimes not even SAYING anything, just looking. We were trained to bark out commands to people 'You, in the red shirt, phone an ambulance.' You can't just say 'someone phone an ambulance,' or no one will. It's damn creepy, really.

Wert, exactly. I'm always That Person now, because if i don't do it, no one will. Unless apparently, we're in the same crowd, then i guess it'll be rock, paper, scissors.
 
2005-12-06 08:02:01 AM  
Was at a coffee shop yesterday studying and someone had propped the door open and it was getting farking cold in there. For about five minutes, everyone in the place kept glancing at the door, then glancing around the room to see if anyone would close it. I finally got up to close it, and I was sitting furthest away from the door.

It's a basic collective action problem... if you assume someone else is going to act, you're better off if you keep your lazy ass in your chair.

/mugen. damn you my torts final was last year, have an insight on corporations?
//reading fark instead of studying now
 
2005-12-06 08:10:28 AM  
AirForceVet
Naw, don't buy it. The more people around increases the odds someone with balls will step up to the plate.

Actually, the larger the group the less likely someone is going to do something. People figure if others aren't doing anything, they sure as hell aren't. Google "bystander effect" for more info. :)
 
2005-12-06 08:12:55 AM  
I find the article autrocious, licrocious, and bigotrocious. That is why you are entitled to just compensation.
 
2005-12-06 08:13:24 AM  
Lady J: Modern society puts a high premium on 'live and let live' and 'mind your own damn business', so I reckon people are afraid to step up sometimes cos they don't wanna look like interfering busybodies.


mugen.: heh I wouldn't help someone even if it were only me and him. Altruism can kiss my ass and the law very rarely, be it civil or criminal law, imposes a duty of care on a stranger. Indeed, there are a number of doctrines named specifically for the rescuer situation.


Libertarian/Objectivist ideals don't say "Sit there and do nothing while another person is having their rights taken away by another." Honestly, that's like the farking high schooler reading Ayn Rand impression of the whole damn thing. You're not weakening the person by helping them in that situation, you're saving their life so they can, hopefully, go on living on their own ability.

Honestly, that's some borderline psychotic shiat man, "I wouldn't help somebody dying in the street." Alright then pal, if you don't believe in people helping people on ANY level, then you can stop living in a house somebody else built for you, stop eating food somebody else grew for you, stop using a computer and software somebody else designed and built for you, and go out and become your rugged individualist.
 
2005-12-06 08:15:31 AM  
The bulk of that post was directed toward mugen, not Lady J by the way. Her comment sort of included the whole "individual > society means nobody helping anybody" thing, but mugen was the guy who really set me off.
 
2005-12-06 08:17:24 AM  
Uhm, this study is about...oh, 30 years old, at least?
 
2005-12-06 08:22:47 AM  
[image from img360.imageshack.us too old to be available]
i would have intervened, but i was training the hottest new pet this season, the pet rock!!!eleven
 
2005-12-06 08:23:27 AM  
i agree with everyone else.... OLD HAT!! anyone who took psych 101 knows this is called Group Think and has been studied and know for years!!
 
2005-12-06 08:28:00 AM  
rhino33

Actually, groupthink is something else, namely the "group coherence before best possible solution" method of decision making. Anyone who took psych 101 knows that. :p
 
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