on the contrary. if the interviewer bad mouths the previous applicant, I think I've got an advantage.

If you have a difficult time understanding what the fark your future employer is saying during the interview, then trust me...it's not going to get better later.

This morning, I found a note on my desk saying we needed to discuss my client's "tubs." I have no idea what he means by that. None whatsoever.

/client is not in the tub business
//neither are we

Oooh, I can play this game! You have a bad boss if:

- your boss decreased your salary by 10% instead of laying off the employees who don't have any billable time, and you are one of the few employees who do have lots of billable time
- your boss swings in the office around 10-11AM daily, checks e-mail, then leaves for a few hourse, comes back for a bit, leaves again, without saying hello or even to check on your progress
- your boss sometimes leaves for days at a time, and no one knows where he's at, and you have a pertinent question involving a client for him, and he's not answering his cell phone
- your boss refuses to place your own money in your 401k account until you call the government to make him

Do I win?

Make sure the boss is taller than you. That way, it's easier to kiss his ass

Your boss quotes you a salary that you agree to and then you work 18-hour days for two weeks opening his business for him - getting suppliers, hiring employees, bringing in equipment, even working outside of your expertise by assisting in the construction of the store's interior. At the end of two weeks you receive payment, in cash, that is nowhere near the amount agreed to, nevermind that you just busted your ass for this clown. When pressed, your boss feigns ignorance. Having no paperwork to prove your point, you feel like a real sucker and walk away, having learned a valuable lesson.

it sounds to me like the biatch in the article, Melissa Dantz, is the problem.

i'm sure her former bosses are glad to be rid of her. i find nothing really wrong with what they were doing. first was a couple trying to survive as small fish in a huge pond, and the second was refering to a prior employee, not an applicant.

not that the submitter noticed.

Thera: your boss swings in the office around 10-11AM daily, checks e-mail, then leaves for a few hourse, comes back for a bit, leaves again, without saying hello or even to check on your progress

I wish my last boss was like that, instead of constantly looking over my shoulder and finding problems where there weren't any.

swahnhennessy

you get it in writing.. always.

If the network admin calls you for help because he messed something up while working on the server... on shrooms.

If you have to get your 15 minute breaks by calling the Dept. of Labor.

If he revokes sick days for the remaining employees after you leave because he finally figured out you were using said time off to find a new job / go to interviews

You've never operated a fork lift in your life and the boss wants you to move toxic chemicals through his warehouse. Said warehouse looks like a tornado met Sanford and Son.

Boss invites you out to lunch at a fancy restaurant and when the bill comes he THEN mentions you are paying half. Then he doesn't tip.

Boss wants you to work a 16 hour a day trade show for your normal $12/hr with no over time and he's only paying for 8 hours. Tradeshow is in NY. No per diem and you have to share a room with him.

It took a lot of punishment to be able to spot a rat fink boss, but now I can spot them in minutes.

/Kids, remember, ASK questions on your interview! You are interviewing them as well.

Or if you're on your break at a crappy job that you showed up at 7am for, and your boss looks over at you and says "What's the earliest you can be here?". I felt like saying, "8".

I worked at a co. in Brooklyn, I found a new job after working for this loser for 4 yrs. They owed me a bonus of $1000 (not in writing),I asked one of the owners: Rich can I get my bonus before I leave? 2 wks go by and nothing. I ask my last day again, he says Matt calm down its just a thousand dollars. I looked at him coldly and said "Then it shouldn't be too hard to pay me it".
This guy fuking freaked, It wasn't until one of the other partners got involved did I get my $$.
Fast-forward 4 1/2 yrs, I'm working for a competitor and he comes in for an interview, I ask what happened.. blah-blah. The director of ops asks me, is he any good?
I said "He's the plaque". He never got job, and I love the memory of that day.

Interview? If your uncle hasn't lined up the job stay home.

I interviewed at a large video game retailer based in the DFW area, and when I went in they told me that the previous applicant had just walked out one day and never came back. I pressed them on why the person would do that, and they never gave a good answer. I actually met the person later, and the place was a nightmare to work, so I'm glad they didn't think I was a good fit. Apparently they were burning through a lot of people in that position.

Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...

If you are a male, and If your potential boss is a woman, and she calls you "babe" in the first interview, take the job. You are guaranteed to be treated with kid gloves for at least 6 months.

If you are a female, and if your potential boss is a male, and he calls you "sweetheart" in the first interview, run like hell. You are guaranteed to be given hell if you don't put out within 2 weeks of being hired.

//just sayin'
///don't know anything

Here's a good one:

You're a newsman. A videographer.

You're in your office an hour early, from your honeymoon, and the boss tells you that there is something going across town. You get your tapes you haven't seen for a week, start rewinding them. Start gathering your gear. The boss comes around the corner two minutes later and starts screaming at you for not being at the scene yet. You casually tell him that you need tapes to run a camera, you need to see your camera after a week to rebuild it, and you came in an hour early to be on deck ready to go, on time. It is unfortunate that this happened, and you'll be ready in five minutes.

He says you're slacking off and then he damn near throws a chair at you.


-OR-

You work at a television news station in Nashville, TN, and the boss tells you that this important Johnny Cash movie coming out today is the lead at five. Then he tells you that you cannot have a photographer, and that he wants you to find a member of Johnny Cash's family in town and ask them about the movie. It's noon. You've never done the celebrity beat.

Then you sit in his office when you can't find a celebrity who may or may not be in town, and get chewed out for not finding a celebrity in three hours.

So guess who walked out on his bullshiat job last week?

For those of you who didn't RTFA:

How do you spot signs of a bad boss?

1) Is s/he breathing?


Also, I love this quote:

"The toll on my self-confidence from these bad boss experiences was tremendous,

Someone call the WAAAAAHmbulance. Welcome to the 21st century workforce, biatch.

and in retrospect, avoidable," she says.

Raise your hand if you've ever been in a position to reject a job offer for the SOLE REASON that your future boss is a jerk. I sure as hell haven't. I have more critical things to consider, like eating and paying my mortgage.

It's the way of the world: people with money can act like jerks to people who don't have money. This isn't news. They know that if you don't take the job they can get someone else to.

/that's the trouble, there's too many people without money and too few people with
//and numbers don't mean shiat unless they're after a dollar sign

Anyone else think the first chick talking on the tutor time advertisement looks like porn star Isabella Soprano?

/doesn't use the internet for porn, or anything.

Evil Otto: Raise your hand if you've ever been in a position to reject a job offer for the SOLE REASON that your future boss is a jerk. I sure as hell haven't. I have more critical things to consider, like eating and paying my mortgage.

Obviously, you haven't had one of those bosses. You would totally understand.

What if your choice was between feeding yourself and going insane when they tell you (not ask you) to do immoral things for them?

See? Don't give me that bullshiat routine about being tougher. I worked twelve hour days, almost six days a week, for a decade, in a stress zone like an air traffic controller.

I walked out when they crossed the line of my morals. No one should ever be that bad, not for a buck.

Ok. True story.

Last Wednesday I taught a great half day at public school. I ran into my principal at the end of the day, chatted about some future plans, some kids we were both concerned with, and wished her a Happy TD.

Then I get home, and in the mailbox is a letter of termination.

I was never told my teaching or other responsibilities weren't up to snuff. She never called me in to say, "This and that bother me, can we work on this?" Just a termination letter in the mail, mere hours after talking with her and her giving no hint that this was the last moment I'd be here.

Oh, and I called right up to get the courtesy of a phone call detailing what was the reason I was terminated. I re-called Monday. No response. I called the superintendent's assistant today and left a message that I really needed to speak to someone. No response nearly a week in.

It's not the loss of a job that bothers me most, it's the way this has been conducted. All I want is 2 things: accountability about how I was out of line (so many teachers complimented me!) and why I needed to be terminated, and to make arrangements to return materials I have to the school so the kids won't suffer.

So if you're applying for a music teacher job in a Massachusetts town just north of the Quabbin, beware. Admin is INCOMPETENT.

I've pretty much come to the conclusion that if my boss is female that she is going to be a bad boss.

I've had six female supervisors/managers in my life...... only one was even slightly cool. The rest were complete biatches. Something about a position of authority goes to their head or something.....

I still don't understand it.... but I know it's true.

Last job I got "tricked" into working for a female boss.... she didn't interview me, the guy never mentioned her...... and guess what?....... BIATCH!


/not mysoginistic
//love women
///will never work for one again though

Work or starve.

The boss isn't the problem, he is just trying to maximize his profit, that often involves treating the wages slaves like sh*t.

Voluntary employment with reduced government regulation is the solution.

NeverSaidThat: I've pretty much come to the conclusion that if my boss is female that she is going to be a bad boss.

I've had six female supervisors/managers in my life...... only one was even slightly cool. The rest were complete biatches. Something about a position of authority goes to their head or something.....

Maybe chicks just don't like you or something.

he is just trying to maximize his profit

That's the problem: Bosses like that aren't factoring in things that aren't easily given a monetary value... like employee morale.

Interviews are completely worthless when it comes to determining whether the job is right for you. Every bad manager I have had has seemed cool in the interview. After about a month you begin to realize what a big mistake you have made. You will find out your boss knows nothing, they lied about everything in the interview and they want you to start working several hours of overtime for free.

Also avoid working in IT or software development at all costs. The salaries may look enticing, but after you finish putting in 14 hour days and weekends you'll realize you are making, per hour, about as much as the toothless wonders at Wal-Mart.

krode
Maybe chicks just don't like you or something.

Boss chicks sure don't..... other chicks seem to not be completly disgusted by me.(or they hide it well)

NeverSaidThat

I've pretty much come to the conclusion that if my boss is female that she is going to be a bad boss.

Luckily, most women that I've worked for have been very professional and easy to work with, and I haven't had your bad experiences as a general rule. However, I once spent two years in a place as the only male in an office of 60+ women, and eighteen years later, the experience still gives me nightmares. Talk about high-tension environments. You could never really tell which alliance or war was in effect for a particular week, but you always knew that whatever happened, you didn't belong.

"today's buoyant job market, . . "

Obviously, she's never been to Central NY.

/average two interview invites a week
//love my gig
///but it's not where I need to be
////trapped in the Hudson Valley
(forgot to use patenthetical slashies)

r2d2atemyhomework
Interviews are completely worthless when it comes to determining whether the job is right for you.

After being the Interviewer for a couple of years now, I have decided that almost anyone can come across as SANE for a hour in an interview.
Sadly you don't realize it till things are fairly Farked up.

I work in tech.
I moved to a new job about 5 months ago, my last boss could in no way from the interview be figured as a bad boss. He was an egomaniacal bastard. I generally came to hate the job, only because of him.
Everyone knew I was looking for another job, most of them made the "I should be too" comment, but few did(one or two others were aparently).
I was the first to quit, but he expected it.
My new boss, again, I could not judge from the interview, but he is awesome. The rules(and remember we are tech workers) include: are not allowed to work over 37.5 hours in a week without prior arrangement, and good reason; are not allowed to work on a problem past midnight(I work a later shift 1-6 + 2.5h either side - so I get till 2 am) on ANY problem, even emergency, it must be handed off - even to him; on call is required, but all time is made up in lieu later(ie days off) - meaning over winter I am taking every wednesday off to go skiing - pager duty is once every 2 months.

Previous employeer had a bonus structure that encouraged techs to work 190 hours a month sometimes. After 1 year, with no complaints at all, I get a bonus that was promised me 6 months before, and 0% pay raise. Within 4 months at my new job(about a month ago) I got a pay raise - making my total increase in pay since I quit my last job - wait for it - 25%! in 4 months! Yeah, I know I was getting screwed over there.

And to top off this epic long post - I just helped poach another employee from that office to ours, and am working on convincing the rest to find other jobs too(some in my office).

/no I'm not bitter
//I route around conflict
///ohhh... slashies... elipsis...

Gone_Feral
most women that I've worked for have been very professional...

Most women I've worked WITH are great and I notice very little difference between the number of easy to get along with women and/or men.

Something about female bosses though..... like I said, I can't explain it, I just know it's there. I think it's some kind of overcompensation for society generally treating women as followers of men...... so they get in charge and treat everyone like crap.

I had one cool female boss.... she was fair to everyone and didn't need to be a biach to get done what she wanted done.

Anyway.... just some social commentary....

We had a new hire who's old boss called him up and assigned him more work. They threatened to withhold his last paycheck if he didn't do it.

All bosses are coonts ... that's why I stopped working for one.

I'm not kidding about this. If you want to work with computers for a living, then go into the hardware and networking side. Gain skills that require physical presence. Programming jobs are still being sent out of the country (and backfilled by cheaper H1-B's here in the US) as fast as companies can do it. And the next big wave? Sending the programming work into extremely rural areas of the US where the cost of living is far less than in the cities where the rest of the working world works. Do you want to move out to the sticks in order to get a programming job? What happens when your company lays you off?

So true...too. Look around - you don't see too many 40+ year old programmers. They have either moved off to other jobs or been pushed out the door.

same goes for a guy about his ex girlfriend

same goes for a guy about his ex girlfriend

How about my favorite to date?

You meet a guy who is there for moral support as his buddy signs up to get a job. After a while of shooting the breeze and trading notes, Mr. Moral Support looks straight at you and goes, "No. Turn around, get back in your car, and drive away. Make like you never heard of this place. You won't be happy here."

/Didn't believe him
//but he was right
///oh, holy shiat was he right. Quit before probation was up.
////Have had a friend who is a manager at a major hotel chain recommend that, now that I've found a new position, I grenade the place. A few letters to OSHA...

Hah. I've had another problem -
1)get a cool job with a cool boss. Things are going great, everyone is happy, life seems cool.

2)Some upper management shakeup happens, and suddenly your boss is in another department.

3)Your new boss comes in. Prick doesn't even say "Hi" to the employees on his first day because he's too busy schmoozing the higher-ups already. Little kiss ass.

4)Few months later, you realize that your new boss is not only a two faced little liar, but he's also a total farking moron that will lie to cover up his own incompetence. You realize that he thinks everything he does is right, with gems like:

"Managed switches are unnecessary." (WTF?)

"I never gave the OK to order that hardware" (yes, you did)

"Let's just give the CS team the cheapest PCs we can find. Never mind the fact that productivity & support costs have gone WAY down since we got them eMacs." (They get thousands of emails every day, many of them virus laden from pissed off customers. Seriously.)

"We don't need that antivirus server. Users just need to keep their antivirus software up to date. Oh, and no, you can't centrally manage it."

"WHy do we need to do backups? Users should just back everything up to the Samba server on their own!" (Developer who was on a deadline *didn't* back things up because he was really busy, thousands of hours of work lost. Project forced back weeks.)

"You need to be here earlier to support the userbase." (Regarding ONE USER that showed up at 8am.. and was one of 2 people in the company using Outlook.. (her daughter was the other one)... and she was the ONLY ONE with email problems. EVER.)

"Things with you just aren't working out any more. No, of course it's not personal..." (After months of busting my ass, coming in early to support ONE particular user, staying late, and being woefully underpaid.)

So, I was "let go" by this stupid asshat. I never wanted to fly over a desk and beat the crap out of someone so bad.

Oh well, though. I now make twice the money, and the former company turned into a ROKSO spam house.

and these people think that programmers are a dime a dozen

Hate to break it to you.. but coders are a dime a dozen. And, lets face it, you don't need to be a good coder anymore, not with todays hardware and the mentality of "code now, patch later". The truth hurts, I know. Blame the glamorization of the late 90's mentality; "be a coder, become a millionaire!!!!!!!". So, now we are stuck with people who don't see coding as an art form but as a paycheck. As a result, now coders aren't considered artists, but employees. Just like the rest of us replaceable drones. I suppose a "welcome" is in order.

/got sick of prima donna coders a while ago
//still likes 'em, though

Just another "no brainer" tip...

if the break room has suffered vandalism from weapons, heavy objects or fire.

if the break room floor has marks from the snack machines being knocked over more than once.

if the secretary asks you if you brought your own pen.

if the guy interviewing you "goes outside for a minute" alone before he sees you. (may not be a no brainer...)

if everybody is sitting around on the day they hire you.

Had the last one happen at Protel in Lakeland FL, got hired on, did the whole QA training video and safety instructions. Worked a week and a half listening to payphone responses and checking their coin detection (and rejection) then was asked to check the incoming mail twice a day. Turns out I was hired on two days before a mexican company cancelled a 5,000 unit order - that we were already testing. Worst pickle of the whole thing was they let me go on the day the temp agency came by for drug testing, testing was after lunch, I reported to the temp office at lunch with my assignment-finished papers, then spent 4 years explaining to prospective employers that I did not walk off to avoid the test. Nightmare when you work for jerks who can't actually keep a real job, they assume you're worthless. Started woolgathering and knitted a blanket, have a nice nap!

2005-11-29 11:16:25 PM - Fark Me To Tears

To anyone who is considering becoming a programmer/analyst or "developer" as it's known these days:
So much of your post is right on target, it's kind of scary.

...don't mind having bosses who don't understand what you do (but presume to tell you how to do it anyway)...
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. Especially when something is taking longer than you estimated. ATTENTION GENIUS MANAGERS: THE WORD THERE IS **ESTIMATE** (or as you dipshiats might like to say "guesstimate"). I don't know how long it will take to write; all I can do is ESTIMATE. If I have unexpected difficulties, it's going to take me longer. I'm not psychic. If I already knew how to flawlessly write something that doesn't exist, I could do it in an hour.

And you always seem to forget to deduct that day I spent analyzing and fixing a minor client bug that came up from my original ESTIMATE. See, genius, I didn't include those higher-priority distractions in my original ESTIMATE.

BUT FOR GOD'S SAKE: when something is taking longer than expected, the solution is not to throw out WEEKS invested into the current design for some half-assed uninformed solution you slapped together in your head while we were talking on the phone. Asshat, asshat, asshat.

...and are good about stockpiling money for rainy days...
At least I have that going for me. (Case in point: I can still afford to blow $5/month to post on a free website.)

The only people in software who have any job security at all are the managers who wind up laying off programmers to keep the budget numbers in line.
In retrospect, it was dumb of me to use any forward-thinking in my design. Why should I have cared about the ability to build off of my work, when they never intended to have me around to do it?

Programming is fascinating work, but the software industry is full of non-technical people who have injected themselves into the process, usually as project managers and sometimes as IT managers, and these people think that programmers are a dime a dozen.
Well, that's what they like to pay them. If you've been around long enough to have earned some raises, they like to have you train someone else to do your job for half the price.

When they hire you, they will not pay a penny to keep you properly trained
But you are strongly encouraged to stay current "on your own time". What time would that be? I'm a full-time employee. I know! They're paying me to do nothing on my vacation. Why not use that time and money they're donating to me to take a training course?

(companies did use to pay for training in the old days)
They do encourage you sign up for 1-hour free "web tutorials". You don't have to leave the office, and they can say they paid for your training! You don't actually learn anything, but that's beside the point...

...and the moment a new technology comes along, they will dump you in a heartbeat and hire someone fresh out of school to replace you, regardless of how much institutional knowledge you've picked up.
Five years don't mean shiat. You may know VB, but do you know .NET????????? This guy fresh out of college who doesn't know jack about our product does!

Programmers used to be the most respected professionals in the IT world, and now they are treated with contempt.
And it's a 2-way street. You have no motivation to work for an employer that obviously doesn't appreciate you, so eventually, you stop caring and register an online account under the name InflatableJesus. You spend the entire day FARKing, stopping only to do the absolute bare minimum required to hold onto your shiatty job until the inevitable "elimination of your position" occurs.

Do I sound bitter? I guess I bit my tongue a lot at my former job. This post was...cathartic.

Fark Me To Tears
Programmers used to be the most respected professionals in the IT world, and now they are treated with contempt.

Programmers (and coders) have been screwed, but at least you can make a decent living as a consultant or freelance programmer. I am (was) a Network Architect. Life was good until 2002 then they hired a bunch of younger kids with associate degrees to maintain what had been built. I work in facilities management now. Not as interesting and the pay is nowhere near what I used to make. I went through old tax returns the other night. Very depressing.

/There is no such thing as a good boss
//Their only motivation is look good and keep their job
///That is the only reason they treat anyone with respect