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(MSNBC)   Remember last week when CEOs of Exxon, Conoco, Shell and BP testified before Congress that they didn't meet with Cheney's energy task force? They were lying. Good thing they weren't under oath   (msnbc.msn.com ) divider line 426
    More: Followup  
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21249 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Nov 2005 at 9:23 AM (10 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2005-11-16 12:20:16 PM  
I'm out for a bit. ya'll have fun.

/Immaculate_Misconception
right on IM good luck collecting.
 
2005-11-16 12:24:28 PM  
It seems from the quptes up at the top:

"Sen. Stevens (R-Alaska): I shall not administer an oath today--
Sen. Cantwell (D-Washington): Mr. Chairman.
Stevens: --and we look forward to questions...Senator Cantwell?
Cantwell: Mr. Chairman, I did send you a letter signed by eight of my colleagues asking that the witnesses be placed under oath. This rare joint hearing--
Stevens: I did not yield for you to make a statement. We're ready to go. We have a statement process--
Cantwell: Mr. Chairman, I would like the committee to vote on whether we swear--
Stevens: There will be no vote. That's not in order at all. It's not part of the rules that any vote can be taken to administer an oath. It is the decision of the Chairman, and I have made that decision.
Cantwell: Mr. Chairman, I move that we swear in the witnesses.
Stevens: And I rule that out of order.
Sen. Boxer (D-California): I second the motion.
Stevens: Thank you very much. That's that last we're going to hear about that, because it's out of order."

that at least some congressmen wanted them sworn in. I am reminded of something someone else posted a couple days ago - in Florida, there were hearings about imposing liability caps on malpractice. NOT ONE of the insurance execs would testify under oath that lawsuits were the source of high malpractice insurance.They did say it when NOT under oath. And so, they got their cap, and insurance raates have gone down, right? HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
 
2005-11-16 12:24:46 PM  
I mean, like you guys seem to say so often, an innocent man has no fear of investigation, right?

Oh, snap!
 
2005-11-16 12:24:57 PM  
unexplained bacon, people don't care but not because their distracted by shiny things, but because they stopped caring.

When they see this President stick by his friends no matter how much they farked us over, they stopped caring. When they see that this administration is covered in shams, lies and half-truths, they stopped caring. On a weekly basis we see the true colors of this administration and their hidden agenda and we stop caring. When they see this president rush back from vacation to sign a bill to help Terry Shiavo, but won't lift a finger to fix SS, Health Care, Education they stopped caring. Buhs spent more time trying to make gay marriages illegal, and fighing stem cell research then he has done to get more flu vaccines this flu seaosn.

The public know this administration is doing nothing for them, and they also know that there is nothing that they can do about it.

Its not only a shame, but its tragic. The effects of this will be seen down the road, and I hope to God that Bush and this administration go down in the history books as the worst, possible administration ever...even worse then Nixon.
 
2005-11-16 12:25:30 PM  
CEOs of energy companies meeting with an Energy Task Force?!

Oh heavens, what a horrible scandal.

I'm absolutely completely totally utterly outraged that anyone on an Energy Task force would ever consult the CEOs of major energy companies!
 
2005-11-16 12:26:01 PM  
Lady J: but I didnt inhale !11111!!!!


Smoking some ganja and ripping the country off for billions are two different matters my dear retarded bush apologist.
 
2005-11-16 12:26:10 PM  
I can't wait to hear Hannity defend this. It's because of shiat like this that Americans would like to know what the hell happened during those energy policy meetings.

I'm sure any attempts to get those meeting minutes, however, will be met with "executive privelege". Bastards.
 
2005-11-16 12:27:13 PM  
Immaculate_Misconception

Since we can't trust HappyDaddy to hold up his end of the wager, I'll donate $25 to the Injured Marine Semper Fi Fund.

/Not military
//from military family (2 grandfathers, father, 1 great uncle, 2 uncles, mostly in the marines (1 grandfather in USAF, father in infantry)
///anti-war
 
2005-11-16 12:28:12 PM  
[image from webpages.charter.net too old to be available]

/am so dead
//one please
///flu vicitim... please give generously
 
2005-11-16 12:29:03 PM  
lexslamman: From what I know, the VP is not required to inform Congress in any such way of false testimony.


I'm not claiming he has a statutory duty. But doesn't he have an ethical duty?

Oh. Right.
 
2005-11-16 12:29:03 PM  
BlindMan, don't be, umm, blind. The issue isn't that oil execs met with the task force (as mentioned sooooooooooo many times in this thread), but the issue is that OTHER orginizations were left out and the meeting was a big hush-hush.

The public have a reason to know what was discussed, and why other orginizations were left out, becuase we pay the outlandish prices. The oil companies made 10 billion in 3 months, thats asinine!

And, if this isn't a big deal why lie about? why not take a oath and tell the truth?

No answer...I thought not.
 
2005-11-16 12:29:22 PM  
Things are just going to get worse.
Get out while the borders are open!

/Costa Rica, anyone?
 
2005-11-16 12:29:49 PM  
lexslamman: Since we can't trust HappyDaddy to hold up his end of the wager, I'll donate $25 to the Injured Marine Semper Fi Fund.

Very cool.

But I think he'll pay up.

Hell, I'll even donate another $25 to them. If it were not for their help we would have probably had to declare bankruptcy last year. We were in one hell of a bind for a while there.
 
2005-11-16 12:30:48 PM  
I'm absolutely completely totally utterly outraged that anyone on an Energy Task force would ever consult the CEOs of major energy companies!

I do believe you might be missing the point. Might.
 
2005-11-16 12:32:29 PM  
ghare

Torte reform was a joke. Frivolous lawsuits were never a major threat to doctors and not a significant factor in the cost of insurance/healthcare.

You wanna drive healthcare costs down? Insure everyone so we can actually recoup our expenses from treating them. The uninsured people are normally completely unable to pay their bills, which means hospitals and providers lose oodles of money treating them, and they have to charge more for everyone else.

Another suggestion - before you make health insurance universal, cut the prices for treatment down so that insured and uninsured patients pay the same price.

The Republican Party is in bed with insurance and oil companies, and between the three of them they are systematically screwing all of the American people out of their rights, services, and money.
 
2005-11-16 12:32:53 PM  
BlindMan


CEOs of energy companies meeting with an Energy Task Force?!

Oh heavens, what a horrible scandal.

I'm absolutely completely totally utterly outraged that anyone on an Energy Task force would ever consult the CEOs of major energy companies!


Obliviously they (major energy companies) see more of a conflict of interest in it then you.
That's why they LIED about it!
 
2005-11-16 12:37:47 PM  
knobmaker

That is what is really so appalling about all of this. Not only did people in this country elect an ethically bankrupt President and Congress, but they seem not to care that their leaders have no understanding of right and wrong, and that their congressional representatives are hypocritical enough to call attention to the ethical errors made by individuals on the other side of the aisle, yet sweep the violations made by members of their own party under the proverbial rug.

That is farking disgusting.
 
2005-11-16 12:42:14 PM  
Clearly something shaky was going on if they felt they needed to deny being there, but . . .

the mere fact that major energy industry players were meeting with the government with regard to energy policy, in the abstract, is not a scandal by itself.
 
2005-11-16 12:42:17 PM  
BlindMan

Do you have any capacity for rational thought, or are you just an apologist automaton?
 
2005-11-16 12:44:28 PM  
Every day the Republican appologists grow more desperate. And it shows...
 
2005-11-16 12:46:08 PM  
Mmmmm...I love the smell of apologists in the morning. It smells like...hypocrisy.

That folks are even attempting to steer focus away, by pointing to what others have done in the past, in no way invalidates the point that this sort of closed door session is exactly what we don't want. Not from Democrats. Not from Republicans. Not from Liberitarians. Not from Socialists. Not from the Scientologist, Divine help us, if those bastiches find a way into office...

The point still remains that the Administration and a faction in the GOP is looking to shed blame and shed responisibility, and playing semantic games to try to preserve at least an appearance of integrity--which they're failing at miserably.

The point is still that the Administration went in as shills, to do a job for their contributors, and split the spoils of a nation that they hadn't even invaded yet--but were already busy at manufacturing the evidence and justifications to do so.

And this is right and meet how in your moral framework? How does this fit into a structure of ethics in government?

It doesn't. That it attempts to ape the justification of realpolitik is even more laughable. No, I take that back, because there is nothing funny about generating crisis to justify profits for your financial backers.

That folks are trying to defend the Administration in this is just sad. Sad that folks are willing to sell the last shred of their decency and integrity for a chance to say "Hey, at least I'm on the winning side!"

Great. The ship is holed, we're taking on financial water, but at least a few fellas in the lifeboats are doing well, are stocked up on Krystal, plenty of heating pads, and have the bulk of the food stores. That's very comforting. The folks who are paddling in the icy waters are so relieved that at least a few folks are comfy and safe. That these apologists resemble hordes of folks on their own personal floatation devices using oars and boathooks to throw back the masses who might like a chance at survival...that's even more comforting.

That the bastards who sitting in these lifeboats are the ones who blew the damn hole...that's not even ironic. It's criminal, and defending folks who have sold out the nation for their own comfort, only compounds the crime with your own wholesale loss of personal responsibility and flushing of your sense of pride and ethics down the Tid-E-Bowl.

This is why I invite folks to join the GOP. Help the folks who have recognized the elements that have hijacked the party for their own selfish interests get rid of these bastiches before they set fire to the nation, just out of spite, before they abandon her. Seriously. Help us get these idiots out of the damn party and get some sane folks back at the helm...and boot these lick-spittle apologist cheerleaders who are hoping for sops from the table the hell out as well, or at least give them some other figure to roll over and become sycophants to.
 
2005-11-16 12:48:36 PM  
That is the kind of comment that will keep the stupid people, that voted for President Bush, from moving their support to the Democrat Party

Saddly, you are correct. The dumbasses that voted for Bush are exactly the type that will vote for guy Y for the sole reason that a persond that supports guy X called them idiots.
 
2005-11-16 12:50:10 PM  
hubiestubert

I disagree. I don't think the rational, "good" republicans can win back their party from these dickheads. It is clearly time to jump ship.
 
2005-11-16 12:51:44 PM  
What is this nation coming to?

If CEOs cannot blatantly lie to Congress about their secretive dealings with the White House, then the terrorists have won!
 
2005-11-16 12:51:50 PM  
hubiestubert
Great. The ship is holed, we're taking on financial water, but at least a few fellas in the lifeboats are doing well, are stocked up on Krystal, plenty of heating pads, and have the bulk of the food stores. That's very comforting. The folks who are paddling in the icy waters are so relieved that at least a few folks are comfy and safe. That these apologists resemble hordes of folks on their own personal floatation devices using oars and boathooks to throw back the masses who might like a chance at survival...that's even more comforting.

Only one problem with your analogy: we're the ones paddling their lifeboats while they sit back sipping on the Krystal.
 
2005-11-16 12:52:39 PM  
impaler

Good - then the Republican voting bloc will be a small group of imbeciles, instead of a large group of imbeciles, fiscal conservatives, Goldwaterites, homophobes, fascists, and true believers.
 
2005-11-16 12:53:59 PM  
Great. The ship is holed, we're taking on financial water, but at least a few fellas in the lifeboats are doing well, are stocked up on Krystal, plenty of heating pads, and have the bulk of the food stores. That's very comforting. The folks who are paddling in the icy waters are so relieved that at least a few folks are comfy and safe. That these apologists resemble hordes of folks on their own personal floatation devices using oars and boathooks to throw back the masses who might like a chance at survival...that's even more comforting.

I hate the policies of this administration as much as the next guy, but this kind of hyperbole does not lend you any credibility.

You are more wealthy than well over 90% of the rest of the world's inhabitants. Statements, like yours above, seem to make light of the plight of those truly in peril.
 
2005-11-16 12:54:23 PM  
trueaustinite: the mere fact that major energy industry players were meeting with the government with regard to energy policy, in the abstract, is not a scandal by itself.

No, it's not.

But, if one of the topics of discussion was "Here's what each of you can expect when we take Iraq", as the map that we know was at the meetings implies, and these meetings took place long before we invaded, that would imply an incredible amount of lying on the part of the Administration in the run-up to the war, would it not?

That would be the sort of thing that You Just Can't Let Go Public, wouldn't it?

It would indicate that there was a plan from the git-go to conquer Iraq, for the benefit of a few corporations and cronies, at the expense of billions of dollars and thousands of American dead, and unknown tens of thousands of civilians.

Treasonous? High Crime? Monstrous? Inhuman?

Sure would be.

Don't you want to know?

If it was just simple profit-rigging, that would be bad enough, and some people will have earned their months in Club Fed. But if it's connected to the war in Iraq, well, we'll go down in history as one of the more evil Imperial nations, ever.

All in the name of profit.

Don't you want to know which it is, just how far some folks will go for a buck? I do.

If it's tied to the war, it is the end of the republican party.

No way they will volunteer to tell the truth.
 
2005-11-16 12:56:30 PM  
Deucednuisance

We agree.

I just want people to remain focused on the real crime, and not take the easy "teh President met with teh OILS" line and stop with that.
 
2005-11-16 12:57:17 PM  
Skleenar: You try getting your bosses to speak under oath.

And, therein lies the problem.

We are the bosses.

The assbags in Congress and the Whitehouse are our employees.

People seem to forget this.
 
2005-11-16 01:01:22 PM  
lexslamman--I have some hope still left that the party can be steered away from these asshats. Especially as things get rockier and rockier, and more and more of them are exposed.

The Neocon "revolution" is still an anomaly. That this new version is full of gross financial irresponsibility may be enough to swing folks back to the real Conservative roots that the party has traditionally had--as opposed to the radical views that the BushCo supporters espouse. It is not a Conservative agenda, and it requires so little thought, that it cannot hold for much longer.

That my daughter is going to be paying for this little bubble...that pisses me off.

That we are going to have to scrub clean our government for a while to get the stench of these asshats, that bothers me.

That we're going to have to demand better from our media--who piss me off much more than the opportunists that they allowed to go on unquestioned for so long. Their abdication of their responsibilities and then their wails of "We didn't Know!" is just disgusting. That they've allowed this myth of a "Liberal Media" to persist for so long is even more troubling. Even as a Conservative, I have never once fallen for this absurd idea. Ludicrious is what it is, and it only shows how far the media have fallen in the US.

Whining, puling maggots who lost their testicular fortitude faster than my Granny shed her knickers when my Grandpa got home from the war.
 
2005-11-16 01:03:52 PM  
ummm guys - ANYTIME you testify in front of congress, you are put under oath. The CEOS simply were not ON CAMERA, right hand raised. They objected because they didn't want that image all over television - especially if they accidentally told a lie. *cough* They were sworn in before the proceedings.
 
2005-11-16 01:06:03 PM  
I reaaaaaaaaalllly wanna be rich like these guys.
But I am starting to think that you reaaaaaalllllly have to sell your soul to Satan to get there.

/just an observation
 
2005-11-16 01:10:31 PM  
hubiestubert

I hope you are right. Though I have grown up in a family of Democrats, and I consider myself a liberal, I still steer towards a more fiscally conservative and socially liberal outlook. I don't necessarily agree that having a small central government is a good idea, I think allowing the states too much power would be disasterous as they are more incompetent than Washington, D.C. is. However, when I go back and read/listen to some of the things that Eisenhower, Goldwater, and even Nixon were saying, I find myself thinking that if I were alive back in those days, I would possibly consider myself a Republican.

The liberal media myth is laughable to me as well. The press really has fallen, though - they went from Watergate to the Judith Miller fiasco in 30 short years. The blame for that cannot be placed solely on the shoulders of the revisionist Republican leadership's strategy of attacking the press.
 
2005-11-16 01:10:46 PM  
trueaustinite--Take a look at the jobless figures again. Take a look at how many folks are ending up in shelters, who are essentially shackled to jobs that won't get any better. Take a look at the divide between the richest 10% and the rest of the population. Take a look at the numbers of folks who've just been removed from the rolls, and just don't count any more.

This isn't hyperbole. It's an analogy. There's a difference.
 
2005-11-16 01:10:59 PM  
datasetgo
ummm guys - ANYTIME you testify in front of congress, you are put under oath.

Wrong. F. You fail. Lying to Congress is, itself, a crime, but a very different crime than perjury, which is what you're guilty of if you lie under oath. These guys were *not* under oath, as clearly stated in the article and pretty-much everywhere else.

Please do not infect fark with lies. Kthx.
 
2005-11-16 01:13:58 PM  
datasetgo: ummm guys - ANYTIME you testify in front of congress, you are put under oath.


The transcript of Stevens' refusing to place the witnesses under oath has twice been posted to this thread. TTKU.
 
2005-11-16 01:15:14 PM  
SchlingFo--Amen to that.

Our "leadership" are paid employees. And when an employee farks up, you fire them. Possibly prosecute them if they stole from you, or misappropriated goods and services. Why do we seem to be so good at busting Javier when he totes out a box of Krispy Kremes to his car, but not so much when it's one of our Congresscritters or a President. You'd think because of the stakes and the violation of trust, it would go harder for the elected official...
 
2005-11-16 01:17:46 PM  
Take a look at the jobless figures again. Take a look at how many folks are ending up in shelters, who are essentially shackled to jobs that won't get any better. Take a look at the divide between the richest 10% and the rest of the population. Take a look at the numbers of folks who've just been removed from the rolls, and just don't count any more.

That's a good monologue, but do you have any figures to support the notion that any of these things are so out of line with historical data that something more than a cyclical shift is indicated?

Are these guys corrupt? Sure. Does that equal impending doom? Probably not.
 
2005-11-16 01:20:30 PM  
brichter: "But more sadly i see an american public that simply doesn't give a shiat..."

"...what happened to awareness? what happened to the rule of law? why is your country so apathetic?"

"...again, i'm not criticizing the people on this thread - just the people that vote republican in spite of their ineptitude or the people who have the same beliefs as the democrats but stayed home on election day and most of all, the people who see this in the news and the flip back to american idol without ever raising a stink when it is so badly needed.


This is what you get when you leave generations of a country to be raised by televisions.

Apathetic commoners are a corrupt politician's (and corporation's, for that matter) wet dream. This country is that dream coming to fruition.
 
2005-11-16 01:21:59 PM  
I'll take "farktags you'll never see in another political debate" for 100, Alex.
 
2005-11-16 01:22:21 PM  
hubiestubert

I think we at least need to put them on unpaid suspension while termination is considered. And Congress too, for licensing this debacle. Lets let the Canadians run the country for a while - and give Texas back to Mexico.
 
2005-11-16 01:23:35 PM  
Its ridiculous reading all you people ranting and raving, specially american citizens. The reason is collectively we all have HUGE powers to fix this, yet, all I see happening is complaining, but no pacifism, and these corporate farks running away with money any way they can. Just observing the actions of this administration, which is continuosly farking up, lying to pretty much everone and sending the country down the crapper, is making me sick. Look around you, its time for a revolution.

"The world is dangerous not because of those who do harm, but because of
those who look at it without doing anything." - Albert Einstein
 
2005-11-16 01:24:48 PM  
trueaustinite--Doom? Not so much. Instead, we're going to be years in cleaning up this damn mess. It's going to take a long while to get things back in line, and in the mean time, we're in crappy condition to deal with real crisis, instead of manufactured ones. As a Conservative, it offends me to the core that these short sighted, greedy sumb'iches have left the nation wide open, and our people, for a lot harder times--and set the stage fro a damn sight more suffering across the globe because of these short term goals of profit for their select few.

It's poor policy. It's short sighted and dumb. And that there are folks who like to style themselves Conservatives who have hopped onto this radical revisionist bandwagon for a chance at getting some sops, just disgusts me. It offends be because it's so transparent.

The Neocon financial policy...well, it's like Madge said: Look, you're soaking in it. Right now, that's what we're doing as a nation--getting soaked.
 
2005-11-16 01:26:04 PM  
trueaustinite

Its not cyclical. If anything, we should be booming right now. Instead, we're stuck in stagflation.
 
2005-11-16 01:27:59 PM  
dhren: I'll see your Einstein and raise you a Cicero:

A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and he carries his banners openly. But the traitor moves among those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the galleys, heard in the very hall of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitorhe speaks in the accents familiar to his victims, and wears their face and their garment, and he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nationhe works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of a cityhe infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to be feared.
 
2005-11-16 01:29:34 PM  
lexslamman: Why would oil executives lie about meeting with the Veep's taskforce?

Because they were told to? And they do not want to disobey Cheney's orders? Just a guess.

And the equally disturbing follow-up:

Why would congress question them without swearing them in?


Take a look at the guy in charge of the meeting. The Republican guy from Alaska, where, without oil, Alaska would be nothing but igloos and eskimos.

The Democratic congresspeople need to openly revolt. The majority of America will back them up if they start setting fires, LITERAL fires, in the House.

/smells like corruption and conspiracy to me.

Man, if only corruption and conspiracy were the only things we had to worry about. I wouldn't mind so much if they were doing all this shiat just to make big-ass bucks for themselves, but this fiasco is causing people their lives and threatens to throw the world into turmoil.
 
2005-11-16 01:31:03 PM  
The_Pole_Of_Justice

HappyDaddy, the battles you choose speak volumes about your character. Some of the most powerful people in the World lie about a meeting with the President of the United States, and you choose to complain about the doubtfulness of theoretical integrity concerning posters on Fark. You might not defend lying to Congress, but when offered a choice between expressing outrage about it and nitpicking at (again, theoretical) opinions of posters concerning Clinton, you expose yourself for what you really are

This is absolutely my last acknowledgment of your presence. You and your kind have been a blight on my party for too long.


This liberal farker declares The_Pole_Of_Justice the winner for this thread. Not only does he speak out against the corrupt "leaders" of his party (a rare thing to hear from any conservatives/Republicans I meet today in Louisiana), but nails HappyDaddy in the quoted post. I look forward to the day that TPOJ and his kind retake the Republican party. Bring back true integrity.

HappyDaddy: hopefully you read this post, since you obviously missed the quoted portion earlier. You continue to choose not to actually confront the topic of the thread, but instead go after those that do.

And as for confronting the topic of the thread, I think it's safe to say this is a disgusting, but not unexpected occurrence. Also, Cheney had to have known they were lying in their testimony, yet remained silent. He may not have been testifying that day, but he's at least ethically and morally obligated to say they were lying. I was always taught that you can lie by saying things that are false and you can lie by not saying things that are true. Hence (pay attention HappyDaddy), Bush's people (ie. Cheney) lied about this meeting by not pointing out that his cohorts lied about attending.
 
2005-11-16 01:36:02 PM  
The First: Bottom line is Oil execs run this country along with Cheney and Rove.

But it is not the fault of Big Oil that it has this power, acquiring and using such power is in the best interests of their shareholders. Government is supposed to protect us from such abuses. This current government has taken the graft a step further than anything before, by becoming active participants in the conspiracy.

Blaming a corporate entity for being "greedy" and "crooked" is like blaming a shark for being hungry and eating. But when our elected representatives...
 
2005-11-16 01:36:51 PM  
mrexcess

I'll call you on your Cicero. I have a Lincoln:

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can excercise their constitutional right of amending it, or excercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it."

Quote advocating revolt against the Bush/Republican government from the founding figurehead of the Republican party and the greatest President in American history trumps both Cicero and Einstein. I win the hand. Wanna play again?
 
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