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(CNS News)   In just four short years, Bush has borrowed more money from foreign governments and banks than the previous 42 presidents combined   (cnsnews.com) divider line 331
    More: Asinine  
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21124 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Nov 2005 at 9:24 PM (8 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2005-11-08 10:51:06 PM
I keep seeing posts saying Bush doesn't do the spending, Congress does. But the real story is that Congress approves spending proposed by the President. The office of the President plans that spending in advance, it's called a "budget". So the spending we have seen was planned by Bush and approved by Congress. And they didn't give him all he wanted every time to boot! And for the naysayers here are some links;

Whitehouse office of "Budget"
Bush requests Homeland Security Funding
Another "Bush requested funding"

/Looks to me like he is doin' the spending
//As I recall he also was claiming to be reducing the income "Tax Cuts"
 
2005-11-08 10:52:14 PM
Aias: Not spending = cutting program costs. Prob a good idea, but it is a mite bit tricky and unpopular and unfortunately, the egotists that are drawn to running for president are decidedly loathe to be unpopular.


Once again...we find ourselves at A Time For Choosing
 
2005-11-08 10:52:56 PM
Machtyn,

Even though Clinton had a sizable deficit figure overall, he did something that Bush looks like he will never be able to do: Balance the yearly budget.

It happens to be the first step in being able to pay off the debts.
 
2005-11-08 10:53:28 PM


some here in the US are doing OK!

/stolen from some Photoshopping farker.
 
2005-11-08 10:54:46 PM
Damn, bush runs the country like I play sim city.

/always goes bankrupt
//cheats to get more money.
 
2005-11-08 10:55:21 PM
Vote libertarian just for the sake of destroying the 2 party system

When there's 3 major parties, we'll prop up the Green party too.

We might even let the constitution party in the fun, too!

When there are too many parties for any to hold the power with a firm grip, when they're gridlocked forever, then america will really be prospere again
 
2005-11-08 10:55:37 PM
well, that's fiscal conservatism for you.
 
2005-11-08 10:58:36 PM
Cns news? whole lotta obscure news headlines the past few days.
Blue Capitol, Dailykos.
 
2005-11-08 10:58:53 PM
Machtyn:
Voodoo economics doesn't work. We tried it for 12 years, then for 4 more. It doesn't work. Stop pretending you have a farking clue how the world works because of the pet theories of long-discredited economists and look at the empirical evidence.


Sandwyrm:
I don't have numbers that far back, and don't have them segregated by source. However:
The real value (in 2004 dollars) of the actual deficit in 2004 (that is, the increase in the debt, not the "Budget Deficit") was 595 billion. In 2003, 563 billion; and in 2002 437 billion.
It was close to that in 1991, at 592 billion, and was over 500 billion in 1990 and 1992 as well. Highest under Reagan was 1985, at 491 billion.
'43, '44 and '45 were the highest, at 691, 684 and 600 billion (all 2004 dollars).
Depression deficits never topped 70 billion, adjusted. Highest WWI deficit was 137 billion, adjusted.
I doubt (but do not have numbers) that the Civil War, Reconstruction, the Revolution, or 1812 involved higher adjusted deficits.
Clinton never topped 450 billion, adjusted, and only topped 300 billion 3 of 8 years.
 
2005-11-08 11:00:08 PM
It is certainly not Bush's fault, entirely, that we are mortgaging our futures. It isn't Bush alone, but the Neo-Con asshats that he rides with, who have hijacked my damn Party, with the assistance of some very short sighted, very literal mindeded, narrow issue focused groups like the Christian Right who have all combined to get their planks on the ticket, and have done such a fine job outspending and servicing their contributors, that we are now soaking in some serious brine.

You want to get this asshat out of office? You want these asshats off the tickets? Out of the Party? Join up. Please. Vote in the primaries and get these asshats off the tickets, and help shape a new platform for the party, one that isn't designed to service a narrow band of interests that don't actually look beyond their tiny focus. While doing so, the Neo-Cons have pushed an agenda that is designed to put the nation into a world of hurt. Starve the Beast isn't just a cute slogan, and they're pushing it for all their worth, while folks look at one hand, and ignore the others.

Look at the big picture kids. It's not just about one thing or another, but a weave of policies that are designed to weaken the Fed to a point where it becomes helpless. It's done to appease an incredibly tiny faction, and if they succeed, it will take many years to undo the damage. It already is going to take many years to repair the reputation of the nation, get our troops home, repay all these ridiculous debts, get our tax structure back in line, get our spending back in line, get regulatory agencies back up to strength so that they can actually do their jobs.

This Administration is a raid on the Federal cookie jar. Not just about lining the pockets of friends now, but down the road as well. And throwing enough wrenches in the works that the Fed is going to hemorrage cash for a long while, and the folks who will have to pick up the mess are going to have to do something radical that might not be all that comfy to rectify the situation. In fact, the Starve the Beast folks are hoping that there will be enough Ditto-Heads and sheeple to raise up a stink so that the solution takes a damn long time, so that they can continue to sop up puddles of cash for quite a while.
 
2005-11-08 11:00:19 PM
Dancin_In_Anson,

Unfortunately, Reagan's rhetoric vs. the fallout of his economic policy show us two different things.
 
2005-11-08 11:00:29 PM
Say GodsTumor...

Any idea how much Micro$oft made?

Conoco?

As a margin % AND $ amount?

Compare and contrast...
 
2005-11-08 11:01:00 PM
Why dont we stop giving out billions (trillions?) in aid to countries that don't even appreicate it? Then we stop borrowing money, and it all evens out.

Oh wait, that won't work, because then the liberals will cry that we're not giving money to the African warlords anymore.
 
2005-11-08 11:01:32 PM
Aias: Unfortunately, Reagan's rhetoric vs. the fallout of his economic policy show us two different things.


Which one? The deal ha made with Congress?

You know, the one they didn't hand him?
 
2005-11-08 11:03:18 PM
Mactyn:
I think I see your confusion. The numbers posted and then graphed are the DEBT vs gdp, not the DEFICIT vs gdp. The debt carries over from President to President. You need to look at what direction the graph is moving and how fast.
 
2005-11-08 11:03:35 PM
Macr, micro, inflation, pull whatever economic buzzwords out of your ass you want the situation is this. Little Johnny (US) takes his $50 of birthday money and spends it all on firecrackers and sparklers and has fun for a week. Little Jimmy (EU or China) takes their $50 of birthday money and buys a bicycle, then gets a paper route. Within a year little Jimmy is loan sharking to Johnny so Johnny can buy more crap that goes boom. End of tale.

/economist = financial astrologer
 
2005-11-08 11:03:40 PM
SilentStrider

mike_d85: anyone feel bad now about spending those tax returns from the first Bush-go-round on a bag of funions and a Harry Potter lego set?

i spent my refund check on an xbox.

yes i actually remember it.


I made 3 car payments with it.
 
2005-11-08 11:03:52 PM
USA! USA! USA!
 
2005-11-08 11:04:12 PM
hubiestubert: It is certainly not Bush's fault, entirely,

Harry S Truman would like to have a word with you.
 
2005-11-08 11:08:06 PM
Hongcouver

Macr, micro, inflation, pull whatever economic buzzwords out of your ass you want the situation is this. Little Johnny (US) takes his $50 of birthday money and spends it all on firecrackers and sparklers and has fun for a week. Little Jimmy (EU or China) takes their $50 of birthday money and buys a bicycle, then gets a paper route. Within a year little Jimmy is loan sharking to Johnny so Johnny can buy more crap that goes boom. End of tale.

/economist = financial astrologer


But in this case little Johnny owns the bicycle shop and prints all the money, and owns the tire manufacturing plant, owns the iron ore mine, owns the steel furnace, holds all the credit on Jimmys skateboard and other toys. If little Jimmy ever cut the flow of cash to little Johnny, little Johnny would have to resort to turning tricks on the corner for a nickel. Little Jimmy is little Johnny's biach.
 
2005-11-08 11:10:51 PM
Good to see all americans pointed in one direction, toward a common goal... no... wait. lol
 
2005-11-08 11:11:54 PM
More fun figures:
The total of Clinton's inflation-adjusted deficits is 1652 billion over 8 years. Bush Sr. totaled 2109 billion over 4 years. Reagan billion over 8 years. Bush jr 1596 billion over 3 years.

Total increase in the inflation adjusted value of the debt (in 2004 dollars) (Note: This is a different number -- adjusting past deficits for inflation increases them, adjusting past increases in the debt decreases them)
Reagan: 2191 billion over 8 years
Bush sr: 1396 billion over 4 years
Clinton: 426 billion over 8 years (inflation-adjusted value of the debt dropped his last two years)
Bush: 1253 billion over 3 years.

For comparison:
Roosevelt: Adjusted total deficit over 12 yearsm 2535 billion. Adjusted total increase in debt over 12 years, 2319 billion.
 
2005-11-08 11:15:49 PM
Silent Strider--Let's face it. You judge a man by his actions. And one of those actions, is who he chooses to roll with.

Take a look at GW's Buddies list, and then make some judgements about what kind of man he is. Not who he says he is. Not who others say he is, but the actions he takes, and those he chooses to surround himself with.

GW fails the Turing Test. He is Quayle-Bot Version 2.0, a convienent tool that can be touted, paraded, and spoon fed. It's not GW that is entirely to blame for this--but those that backed him as their ticket in. They wanted to roll in with Dan Quayle, but that didn't work out so well, so instead they found a new Boy King...
 
2005-11-08 11:18:46 PM
i'll predict the spin now...

"inflation mumbo-jumbo blah blah, war on terrorism, blah blah liberation of iraq blah blah..."
 
2005-11-08 11:23:36 PM
MacGabhain,

Any chance you'd be willing to forward a comparison that wasn't responsible for the largest infrastructure-building known to our country? Not to mention the war.
 
2005-11-08 11:26:41 PM
Don't blame me - I voted for Jesus.
 
2005-11-08 11:27:36 PM
As of today the national population is 295, 734,134. The national debt today is $8,070,350,028,231.52. Give or take a few pennies, every man, woman and child in this country now owes $27,265.00.
 
2005-11-08 11:29:35 PM
Zoulton - I think you are confusing little Johnny with his grandfather. He used to own a bicycle shop, the iron mine etc. but the old geezer discovered playing the derivatives market and doesn't own anything now. Printing money? I can print all the Hongcouver dollars I want and unless others see worth in my currency it is just so much scrap paper, sort of how the US dollar is losing investor confidence as we speak.
 
2005-11-08 11:30:53 PM
aint no fags not gettin no married, so stop queerin around, queers. get the hell out of my house, in jesus name i pray.
 
2005-11-08 11:31:56 PM
So the best argument against the national debit crisis, is that "nobody can mess with the USA because we're big and powerful"?

Well, they say pride goes before a fall. Not that I want to see the US fall, but we need to be a little more of the good neighbor than the bully.
 
2005-11-08 11:32:38 PM
Oh just checking thanks.
 
2005-11-08 11:32:41 PM

who loves you PedroWonStopVoting, not me.
 
2005-11-08 11:33:09 PM
I love how all these stories all come from some QBHG news resource... so now we arent only inventing news stories, we are inventing the agencies that "investigate" and "report" the truth...
 
2005-11-08 11:33:58 PM
Let's see... Republican president. Republican Congress. Republican SCOTUS (not germane, I know, but what the hell).... Clinton's been out of office for five years.... Damn! Who do we blame! Wait, I know! 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11



/bored
//sorry
 
2005-11-08 11:35:11 PM
aye! VOTE LIBERTARIAN!! or green... just don't vote the same two jackballs in again.. please?
 
2005-11-08 11:35:24 PM
Dancin_In_Anson


Say GodsTumor...

Any idea how much Micro$oft made?

Conoco?

As a margin % AND $ amount?

Compare and contrast...

Don't know don't care, it is the way they got it...
I don't remember Microsoft crying poor us are production is down because of a hurricane and guess what XP is now gonna cost you $500.00 a pop.
Oh look at all that money we made from price gouging...
 
2005-11-08 11:36:44 PM
Any chance you'd be willing to forward a comparison that wasn't responsible for the largest infrastructure-building known to our country? Not to mention the war.

Why? He's not discounting the seriousness of long-term deficit spending, he's simply providing the sort of perspective that neither liberals nor many true fiscal conservatives seem able to adopt in this discussion.

(Not to mention the incredibly, incredibly ignorant "China owns you now!" arguments from people who don't understand that China is even more reliant on the U.S. as they purchase more debt, above and beyond the 10% of their annual GDP that comes _directly_ from U.S. economic activity.)

This isn't an excuse of Bush's ridiculous deficits (or at least not all of them, I'd have a hard time faulting or being terribly concerned about,say, $200 billion a year or so), it's simply _perspective_. Failing to maintain _perspective_ and operating off ignorance and knee-jerk reactions is a great way to cause more or worse problems than the one you're trying to deal with.
 
2005-11-08 11:40:26 PM
mike_d85: anyone feel bad now about spending those tax returns from the first Bush-go-round on a bag of funions and a Harry Potter lego set?

I'd happily give that tax refund back, with interest, in exchange for a president that I can respect.
 
2005-11-08 11:47:30 PM
Crown_of_Shoes
Simple.
1. Borrow to your heart's content.
2. Use money to build bombs.
3. Bomb who you owe.


I'm intrigued by your ideas and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
 
2005-11-08 11:50:49 PM
All of you who are defending him...

Would you be saying "Oh, it's not his fault" if the president was a Democrat?
 
2005-11-08 11:51:05 PM
Dancin_In_Anson

I believe the phrase you're reaching for is "I Knew Him Not!"

/here's your $3 in dimes
 
2005-11-08 11:57:58 PM
A Strawman
Um, the picture that Flopsy is not sushi.
It's sashimi.
It's a really big difference.


Errr, did I just get Sushi Nazi'd? ;)

/knows what sashimi is
//thats still some delicious looking tuna
 
2005-11-09 12:02:27 AM
When the debt reaches some arbitrary number, everyone will instantly die, right?

Don't worry about it, we have elected officials to think for us.
 
2005-11-09 12:02:31 AM
TwistedFark: I caught this loser outside the 7-11 trying to get people to buy him a case of Coors. Leader of the free world my ass.

Congrats. You win the internet.
 
2005-11-09 12:03:18 AM
Cinema Simulated: (Not to mention the incredibly, incredibly ignorant "China owns you now!" arguments from people who don't understand that China is even more reliant on the U.S. as they purchase more debt, above and beyond the 10% of their annual GDP that comes _directly_ from U.S. economic activity.)

it isn't ignorant, it's the truth. The longer the US sells bonds to China, the more the US will rely on China and their cheap labor markets to fuel the economy of both countries. Once China makes deals with other nations to important energy and sell their goods, their dependence on the US' market will diminish, thus they won't hurt as much when they ask for their cash
 
2005-11-09 12:04:24 AM
the_gospel_of_thomas: who loves you PedroWonStopVoting, not me.

Is "hippy bull$hit" the same thing as "words that I don't hear because I'm busy NANANANANANANANA'ing them"?
 
2005-11-09 12:07:12 AM
I think some here may be missing the real point, which is that this isn't so much about deficits or the national debt, or debt as a percentage of GDP or any of that shiat, which is all bad I grant you. The real point is that this is debt held by China (and to a lesser extent Japan and a few other nations).

We're about to enter a century where China will become something of a rival - economically, if nothing else, and allowing ourselves to be beholden to them is a major strategic blunder.

We as a nation seem to have internalized short term thinking into our culture: Outsourcing, quarterly profits at the expense of long range R&D, giving our opponents financial leverage over us.
 
2005-11-09 12:11:00 AM
MacGabhain: Check the numbers I posted. Our debt/gdp is twice what it was just over 25 years ago.

I see that, and Bush brought it down since the Clinton era. But again, our Debt/GDP is actually quite average for a nation, yet lots of liberals go crazy when they see $8 trillion in debt. "OMG, that's such a big number... Bush is the worst spender. Arrggh!" It is a very large debt... but when you compare it to our GDP, it really isn't so bad. There are a lot of other countries to worry about... Japan being the worst IMHO.
 
2005-11-09 12:12:05 AM
This article needs the OBVIOUS tag. Nobody is surprised.
 
2005-11-09 12:13:56 AM
oh dear god, how i miss bill clinton. i miss those days.
 
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