Sure, why not. Meryl Streep could use work.

Ew! Ew! Can I be the jews that were called and warned?

Without going too far into conspiracy theory territory, given the ease with which the Bush Administration will either outright lie or distort things to the American public what are the chances that the story we've been given about 9-11 is what really happened?

"Wow Mr. Stone, I think this line of extra hopefuls goes all the way around the building!"

"Yes, it goes back, and to the left ... back, and to the left ... back, and to the left."

lunchinlewis: What part did they make up?

Uhm, we don't know. If we did, Occams_Electric_Razor wouldn't be asking the qeustion "what are the chances that the story we've been given about 9-11 is what really happened?"

lunchinlewis: What part did they make up?

I'd say the most likely area that would have been fabricated would have been their assertions that they had no idea an attack was going to take place. The fact that the PNAC documents calls for a new Pearl Harbor type of event to take place in order for their Middle East project to take place dovetails with this idea, so I wouldn't be surprised to find out they knew something was going to take place but underestimated.

I'd also be willing to bet money that everything we've been told about the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania is an outright lie, a myth created to give people something to rally around. Since the Bush Administration has shown a prediliction for this sort of thing - Jessica Lynch, for example - it seems pretty likely.

Since the Bush Administration has shown a prediliction for this sort of thing - Jessica Lynch...

Since you blame the Bush administration for Jessica Lynch, I think it's safe for us to take your other assumptions and beliefs about this administration with a wheelbarrow of salt.

The fact that the PNAC documents calls for a new Pearl Harbor type of event to take place in order for their Middle East project to take place dovetails with this idea

i knew i forgot something in the headline

/submitter

TheConvincingSavant: Since you blame the Bush administration for Jessica Lynch, I think it's safe for us to take your other assumptions and beliefs about this administration with a wheelbarrow of salt.

Do you remember who she is? The brave American soldier who single-handedly fought off Iraqis until she ran out of ammo, then took them on hand-to-hand only to end up in an Iraqi hospital, necessitating an armed incursion into the hospital to rescue her?

She's the woman who actually broke her leg in a truck crash, passed out, was taken to the hospital by the Iraqis, and we shot at the ambulance that tried to bring her back to U.S. forces.

Who do you think tried to turn her into a rallying point, if not the administration?

wAY TOO SOON TO FICTIONALIZE THIS.

Do you remember who she is?

I wouldn't have commented otherwise.

Who keeps giving him money to make movies? Did they not see "Alexander"? He needs to retire and just smoke tequilla, or whatever he does to get loopy these days.

Everything OCR says about the Lynch rescue is true. I even know a guy who went on the rescue mission. seriously. Let's not forget a certain NFL player for which we were all lied to about as well.

Are you a bush supporter still, lunchinlewis, or do you just hate crazy conspiracies? I'm confused.

TheConvincingSavant: Do you remember who she is?

I wouldn't have commented otherwise.

Then I just don't understand your earlier comment. Since it's clear that the entire story around her capture and rescue was a demonstrable fabrication, how does that undermine my supposition that the Bush Administration engages in such spinning? They tried to turn her into some kind of hero folks could rally around in support of the Iraq war, and reality reared its ugly head.

Occams_Electric_Razor: Without going too far into conspiracy theory territory, given the ease with which the Bush Administration will either outright lie or distort things to the American public what are the chances that the story we've been given about 9-11 is what really happened?

Keep tokin' that pipe dude. I'm sure the big bad Bush administration single-handidly boarded those planes in flight, and flew them into the buildings themselves.

Nobody can deny that 4 planes were hijacked on 9/11. Two crashed into the world trade centers, one crashed into the pentagon, and one crashed in Pennsylvania. The hijackers were Muslim extremests executing a plan by Al-Quadia. Lots of people died. Amoung them were a lot of firemen and a lot of policemen. This is a human story about two policemen who were rescued from the rubble of the world trade towers. It's not a conspiracy movie about how the great satan (Bush) collaborated with Osama.

Un-farking-believable.

It's going to be interesting to see how Oliver Stone spins this one and how much of his own politics he injects into it.

scooby111: Keep tokin' that pipe dude. I'm sure the big bad Bush administration single-handidly boarded those planes in flight, and flew them into the buildings themselves.

Did you actually see/hear me say anything akin to what you're implying in your screed against me? There's a vast gulf of difference between applying skepticism to a story being told by people who demonstrably either lie or distort, and going off on a flight of conspiracy theory fancy.

loony group like PNAC...

with loony members like Wolfowitz, Libby, Perle, Kristol? Gee...who do these people work for?

lunchinlewis: I'm anti-kook. I'm commenting on taking factual inconsistencies about Jessica Lynch and equating that with " everything we've been told about the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania is an outright lie"

The only things that were remotely true in the story we were told about Jessica Lynch were her name and that she was in the military in Iraq. Considering that everything else was completely fabricated, that's a pretty high bar you have there for judging factual inconsistencies.

I'm talking about taking and loony group like PNAC and equating them to the Bush Administration and sayin "they" knew an attack was coming.

Did you know that Paul Wolfowitz and Scooter Libby are both members of PNAC? Since much of the PNAC's membership are in, or were in, the Bush Administration, the link between the two is not as tenuous as you'd make it out to be.

As for whether or not "they" knew something revolving around planes was coming, I've always thought it was interesting that John Ashcroft knew to stop flying on commerical flights starting at the end of July 2001:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/07/26/national/main303601.shtml

As I said earlier in the thread "they" knew something was going to happen, but underestimated.

lunchinlewis: As I said earlier in the thread "they" knew something was going to happen, but underestimated.

And this supports your theory that the Bush Administration made up the 911 story how?

I never said they made the story up. My post at 2005-11-03 11:10:18 AM goes into more detail.

Short answer: the story they had no idea something was going to happen is fabrication, and what we've been told about the Pennsylvania plane is a Jessica Lynch-style myth created as a rallying point.

i think some people on here are confusing conspiracy with total incompetence.

But 9/11 didn't happen in the 60s.

Occams_Electric_Razor

Get over to the DU for some breaking news on the MIHOP/LIHOP conspiracy! Bush is toast!!!!!!!

Why, why, and thrice why does Nicholas Cage keep getting work?? Who employs that lump of crap?

"Where is... blue... faairrry?"

Mr. Scamberg. How would you like to be a jew with that name?


Very old timey Republicans (well really just Roosevelt haters) still arguing FDR "lied" us into WWII. Backdoor to war, yo. There was no Pearl Harbor invasion, or if there was, the Navy had the intelligence but FDR deliberately hid it and failed to act so he'd have a pretense to invade Europe and frustrate the Nazi's wonderful plans to liberate the Semites from their lives. Sweet thinking. Glad to see such conspiracy "thinking" didn't die, but keeps on coming back like its all brand new.

What's a Osama?

Occams_Electric_Razor: what we've been told about the Pennsylvania plane is a Jessica Lynch-style myth created as a rallying point.

How so?

The problem is that there is so much information and mis-information out there about these events that anything you do for a movie is only going to be a half-truth.

And it's too damn close to the real event for a mocumentary to be made. Hollywood should have some remote traces of standards on this one.

And Oliver Stone should have stopped making movies after "Platoon."

You want the guy that pedaled the crap fest "Natural Born Killers" to do a serious film about 9/11?

where's Tony Orlando and Dawn when you need them??

I blame the guy who admitted it on videotape TWICE, once right afterwards in a private tape to his buddies and another right before the 2004 elections that he publically released.

Even if Bush were caught on videotape bragging about 9/11 once, there would still be more evidence against Bin Laden.

Oliver Stone, like Micheal Moore, never let the truth get in the way of their movies.

superbeerchan

Thank you for actually talking about the movie. Has nobody noticed that this film is going to be boring as ALL FARK?

I mean really. "Oh look, an airplane. Time to exit in an orderly fashion. Oh shiat, the building is collapsing. Better wait here till I'm rescued, seeing as how I'm pinned under rubble."
And then we get to watch Nick Cage pinned under rubble for 2 hours. Brilliant.

What they should do is totally remake it like the Poseidon Adventure. See, when the first building crumbles to the ground, what people don't see in all the dust and confusion is that the SECOND BUILDING actually falls sideways and turns UPSIDE DOWN landing in the crater of the first building. So now the whole building's upside down and they have to crawl to the 64th floor before the jet fuel gets to them.
At first, it's a plucky group of misfits who survives the fall-- a loudmouth cook from the top of the world restaurant with a Liverpudlian accent; a black janitor 2 weeks from retirement; an unwed mother of 3 vice president of finance; a former boxer looking to get back into the ring after his 61st birthday; an adorable guinea pig; a man who has just been fired who was blinded by asbestos, and his boss who just fired him whose legs were severed by a falling filing cabinet; and Nick Cage, brilliant young stock broker and former Navy Seal candidate who dropped out at the last minute because he is afraid of water. Look for his stirring, Oscar winning scene when they reach the 77th floor olympic swimming pool. UPSIDE DOWN! The set alone cost $7 million.

Plus, it's a musical. Who can forget Nick Cage's stirring opening sung in a real New York subway to the tune of New York, New York:

Two Towers! Two Towers!
No, not those two Towers!
The Real Two Towers!
I work at the two towers!

&c.

Oliver Stone needs to smoke himself into a coma.

Occams_Electric_Razor:

Without going too far into conspiracy theory territory, given the ease with which the Bush Administration will either outright lie or distort things to the American public what are the chances that the story we've been given about 9-11 is what really happened?


You can be the guy playing the magic bullet in the tin foil hat. He's got a good musical number in the middle.

I've also heard the voice recordings from the plane that crashed into Pennsylvania. The passengers decided to try and retake the plane, and while they were doing so, the hijackers swung the plane back and forth to disorient them. When the passengers overpowered the hijackers in First Class, and started trying to bang down the door of the cockpit, one of the hijack pilots said "Shall we do it?" "Yes" "Allahu akbar."

Oh yeah, forgot the ending, the hijack pilots turned the plane upside down and flew it into the ground, thereby preventing a passenger takeover.

For those of you who believe that Flight 93 was intact when it hit the ground, the majority of the wreckage vaporized in the crash and one of its engines rolled several miles uphill, please point me to any plausible explanation of how this happened.

/I truly do want to believe

Occams_Electric_Razor, I'm sure that the Bush administration shot down TWA 800 too, right? Maybe you should make up your mind who you distrust. If its just Bush, thats groovy. If its the Gov't at large I can deal with that as well; but then maybe you should blame it all on the masons and be done with the whole thing. To simply shout "B-B-But Bush" all the time is simply insincere when you are talking about conspiracies.

bbcrackmonkey: I've also heard the voice recordings from the plane that crashed into Pennsylvania.

I am not arguing that this is a conspiracy...but if it were I dont think it would be all that difficult to make some fake recordings...