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(Reuters)   Albania retires MiGs after years of fruitful service duiring which they killed 35 pilots and zero enemies   (today.reuters.co.uk) divider line 210
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11384 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Nov 2005 at 11:40 AM (8 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2005-11-01 12:47:22 PM
LincolnLogolas: What other aircraft can still fly after getting half a wing blown off?

Don't know how much truth there is to it, but there's a story floating around about an Israeli F-15 landing after losing an entire wing.

http://www.f-16.net/varia_article8.html
 
2005-11-01 12:49:12 PM
Smart Ass

Well, that is a problem. I do wonder why they can't use conventional ammo when attacking technologically inferior targets like Iraq. After all, giant rounds like that are going to pwn any tank Saddam could buy regardless of the presence of DU.
 
2005-11-01 12:50:24 PM
Gotta love the Foxbat. One of the fastest armed aircraft ever built

yeah, in a straight line, at high altitude. its job was to intercept supersonic bombers that we didn't build (before the b-1)
 
2005-11-01 12:51:05 PM
...just don't confuse F-22 with V-22!

 
2005-11-01 12:52:01 PM
impaler: We all know of the F-22, and it isn't even in production yet.

Numbers are hard to find (at least, I've never seen a clear tabulation), but if you piece together the numbers from globalsecurity.org, there are already aroudn 2 dozen aircraft completed. IIRC, the first active unit comes online soon (late 2005/early 2006), but I think it's mostly for training and operations (not combat).

akula: While the Russians do build nifty planes (the Mig 29 is quite good, and the SU-35 is downright impressive), their pilots are nowhere near as good as ours,

Yeah, that's the key. They can barely afford to train on current aircraft, so fancy new toys are not going to help the situation. An unskilled pilot in a miracle aircraft won't last long against a skilled pilot in an average aircraft.
 
2005-11-01 12:52:15 PM


the sled baby
 
2005-11-01 12:53:33 PM
albo

Who cares about the actual practicality? That thing exuded liquid coolness from the seams (unlike the SR-71, which exuded an equal mixture of liquid coolness and jet fuel from its seams).
 
2005-11-01 12:56:25 PM
any plane that allows you to clearly see the curvature of the earth while cruising above Mach 3 is just too damn badass for its own good.
 
2005-11-01 12:57:30 PM
Pxtl

Amen. The A-10 is the sexiest thing ever. So what vehicle is the USAF pretending will replace it again?

The F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. Same concept as the Harrier. Better control. Still won't fill the role.

General rule of air combat: If there's enough of 'em on the ground, you're gonna get hit.
 
2005-11-01 12:58:46 PM
Reeve: C model = Air superiority. There is also a 2-seater, the D model.

So no, it doesn't mean it "sucks."


Thanks for the info.

Back to my other question, at a mere $45 million, what stops Togo or Ghana or some rogue nation who doesn't like their neighbors from buying two and being king of their part of the sky? Bombng the snot out of villages they hate,etc?

Or is 10 f-4 better than 2 f-15?
 
2005-11-01 12:58:54 PM
All those early fighter jets from everyone were deathtraps, and maintance hogs too. I can't imagine what they are after 45 years of aging in the wrong hands..

I've heard the accident rates on current generation stuff is insanely low, though. They make 'em better and they're made to be eay to fly anyway. (no it's no Cessna but they're better behaved than the old stuff by far).

Anyway, didn't the last few of Nato's favorite widowmaker, i.e. the F-104 get retired only a year or two ago?
 
2005-11-01 12:59:45 PM
Leonard_Cohen writes:

Meanwhile my wife gets 12 months paid maternity leave, I get 8 months paid leave for taking care of my elderly parents, 5 weeks paid vacation and of course my free healthcare.

...and productivity suffers to the point that your companies find creative ways to export jobs. In many ways Canada is worse off than the U.S. in that regard.

Oh and one more point...Americans spend money not only for our defense, but yours, as it is in our interest to do so. You have the luxury of a powerful, friendly neighbor to the south that allows you to neglect defense spending to the point of embarrassment.

No need to thank us...my sense is you personally never will.

--h
 
2005-11-01 01:00:17 PM


Teh new hotness.

/Macross fans around here?
 
2005-11-01 01:00:20 PM
LincolnLogolas

The f4u-1 was known as the ensign eliminator. The port wing stalled first due to the massive torque and gyroscopic effect of a 13'3" prop. This was quickly rectified with the F4u-1a which had a starboard spoiler installed to get both wings to stall at the same time. After that, it was nolonger the ensign eliminator and was actually not even close to a deathtrap. It flew almost as easy as a trainer with the exception of having 2000+ hp.

;)
 
2005-11-01 01:00:37 PM
penis_gourd

Wow. I stand corrected. I stand corrected and amazed!
 
2005-11-01 01:02:19 PM
mcostas

Teh debt is ~8.044 Trillion $.
 
2005-11-01 01:03:39 PM
Kurohone: You mean F-19...the (Y)F-17 was Northrops competition for the F-16, which eventually became the F/A-18.

Now that you mention it, yes I think. Aviation Week (Leak) and Technology used to report on it. I would have thought they might have known, but I think maybe the F-17 was used as a Generic term for what they suspected was already flying. I was in the Nav at the time and AWT was always avialable to read, with All Hands, Navy Times, and Naval Aviation-etc.

AWT may have had an article where they blasted the Military for admiting they didn't have a aircraft that was already known to not exist. I just remember the F-17 part mostly.
I was kinda busy at the time.

We are talking about the same thing? Right?
 
2005-11-01 01:05:36 PM
impaler:We all know of the F-22, and it isn't even in production yet

Im pretty sure this is wrong, I saw them do a fly over at a football game not to long ago, since I love figher jets I was checking them out, and said to myself that two of the planes were f-18's, and two were not, and on closer inspection they looked to be f-22's.

I know this is a link to a forum, but at least it confirms my thoughts. f-22 flyover
 
2005-11-01 01:06:30 PM


Straight wings are cooler.
 
2005-11-01 01:06:31 PM
Mosey

Back to my other question, at a mere $45 million, what stops Togo or Ghana or some rogue nation who doesn't like their neighbors from buying two and being king of their part of the sky? Bombng the snot out of villages they hate,etc?

Or is 10 f-4 better than 2 f-15?


I'm not exactly sure. For one, the F-15 is more expensive to maintain and operate. Another thing is usually the contractors that build these planes are limited by the government as to what countries they can actually sell the airframes to. The countries that buy them are in turn limited to what countires, if any, they can turn around and sell them to.
 
2005-11-01 01:08:54 PM
Back to my other question, at a mere $45 million, what stops Togo or Ghana or some rogue nation who doesn't like their neighbors from buying two and being king of their part of the sky? Bombng the snot out of villages they hate,etc?

uncle sugar has to approve the sale. fighters don't go to the countries on the shiat list
 
2005-11-01 01:09:38 PM
oops, sorry Reeve
 
2005-11-01 01:11:07 PM
albo

heh, np~
 
2005-11-01 01:12:13 PM
Fnord: there are already aroudn 2 dozen aircraft completed.

I went looking for fresher numbers...

According to Wikipedia, there were 51 flyable aircraft at the end of 2004. ISTR a production rate of 1-2 per month, so that would mean around 70 aircraft now. But I found another page with an AP story from this month about the AF just recieving the 50th aircraft... I suppose the difference could be with including test aircraft, and the lag between "start of production" and "accepted by AF."
 
2005-11-01 01:13:16 PM
Hmm. That x29 russian plane looks familiar.

 
2005-11-01 01:13:46 PM
albo: uncle sugar has to approve the sale. fighters don't go to the countries on the shiat list

I feel slightly better now.

I am guessing if yo uare the only kid on your block with one of those f-15s you can do a hell of a lot more than play rock music in the cockpit to make up time and give Lou Gosset, Jr the finger.

One of those can probably destroy most of the smaller armies in the world.
 
cot
2005-11-01 01:17:17 PM
hdhale: Americans spend money not only for our defense, but yours, as it is in our interest to do so. You have the luxury of a powerful, friendly neighbor to the south that allows you to neglect defense spending to the point of embarrassment.


Yeah, because otherwise everyone on the planet would be forming a line to come over here and kick Canada in the nuts, right?

God you're an ass.
 
2005-11-01 01:18:44 PM
F-4 Phantom II; When 8 tons of any conceivable payload absolutely MUST get to the target at 1600MPH. the only reason we aren't still using them for Wild Weasels is because the test equipment was getting too expensive to maintain.
 
2005-11-01 01:18:47 PM
COBRA-LALALALALALALA!
 
2005-11-01 01:19:23 PM
St_Ides

wtf is that thing?

2fast4u

X29 is the american forward-swept-craft, and it is pretty much a dead-end project - the thing would fall apart at the sound barrier. The Russian one is the black thing which has a different name.

And yes, macedon, it does indeed look familiar.
 
2005-11-01 01:19:56 PM
LincolnLogolas: My favorite: A-10

Fighter Pilots make movies, Groud Attack Pilots make History.

Although-
An A-10 did record an air-to-air "kill" during 'Gulf I'.
 
2005-11-01 01:21:43 PM
Yeah, because otherwise everyone on the planet would be forming a line to come over here and kick Canada in the nuts, right?

what, you think you're so special, so polite and inoffensive that you'd be immune to attack if the US didn't help defend you? you can barely even keep your own country from wanting to separate from the whole.
 
2005-11-01 01:24:10 PM
Yeah, apparantly the difference between us and the USSR was that we have better credit.

Well, that and the fact that the USSR no longer exists.
 
2005-11-01 01:24:27 PM
Meh

 
2005-11-01 01:24:39 PM
In the 50s/60s the Russians were said to make engines so strong and so durable, they could get a brick to fly.

Once flying, getting that brick to land was another matter entirely.
 
2005-11-01 01:25:07 PM
Paganized.

Also it takes 8 hours to change out a Phantom engine. (it has 2) when f-18 engines can be changed in 2 hours and be running again.

Phantom is proof that if you strap enough jet engine to a brick, it will fly!

I love the Phantom. A true flying big musclecar!!!

:)
 
2005-11-01 01:25:55 PM
albo: what, you think you're so special, so polite and inoffensive that you'd be immune to attack if the US didn't help defend you? you can barely even keep your own country from wanting to separate from the whole.

That is what I was thinking. If the US wasn't backing them up, Qubecistan might already exist.

You know China needs oil, and Canada has oil.
 
2005-11-01 01:28:26 PM
Smart Ass: Countdown to Mig on EBay...

Won't be the first..



No No! The MiG came free with the wiring!
 
2005-11-01 01:28:29 PM
You must think in russian.
 
2005-11-01 01:28:41 PM
Pxtl: wtf is that thing?

It's a Avro Canuck (CF-100). Canadian designed/built interceptor of the 1950s (First flew in '50), though it served in various unpgraded forms until 1981.

There aren't any left flying, unfortunately, but I love their lines.
 
2005-11-01 01:29:49 PM
Mosey

Yes, after all, we all remember how crucial American military forces were in putting down the last three violent Quebecois rebellions. Thankyou for nuking Trois Rivieres for us - we couldn't have managed it without you.
 
2005-11-01 01:31:15 PM
St_Ides

Damn, I feel stupid. I'm a Canadian, and I didn't even know Avro made anything other than the Arrow.
 
2005-11-01 01:31:32 PM
SVenus - a brick will land. It just depends on whether you want that to be a controlled landing or an impact at the end of a parabolic trajectory.
 
2005-11-01 01:31:46 PM
didn't the albanians learn anything from Wag the Dog?
 
Mu2
2005-11-01 01:34:17 PM
doesn't say how many MIGs they got, but that loss rate doesn't sound too terrible compared to the 270 out of 930 lost Starfighter F104s in Germany. Most NATO forced deploying that jet had 30+% losses.
 
2005-11-01 01:34:48 PM
Unsilent Majority

didn't the albanians learn anything from Wag the Dog?

And neither did we.

/But what does it all mean, Basil?
 
2005-11-01 01:36:28 PM
Thanks for a great thread guys, especially about the update info on the f-22's. I was due to go overseas 2 years ago, and was spending my final day at home just thinking... went out to the back 40, and an A-10 flew really low overhead (not unusual).. for some reason I waved that time and he dipped his wings, I think, to me. Made me feel kinda good. Won't forget it.
 
cot
2005-11-01 01:36:54 PM
Scoop84: Well, that and the fact that the USSR no longer exists.


Um... that was kind of the point.
 
cot
2005-11-01 01:38:27 PM
albo: what, you think you're so special, so polite and inoffensive that you'd be immune to attack if the US didn't help defend you? you can barely even keep your own country from wanting to separate from the whole.


I'm American. And it's not Canada that's special, it's us. People WOULD like to kick us in the nuts, moreso than most other western nations.
 
2005-11-01 01:41:14 PM
Togo or Ghana would also have to produce top notch pilots, costing millions of dollars in training not to mention maintenance support.

The first gulf war and the Isreali wars proved you needed efficient personnel. Simply having planes isn't good enough.

Not to mention having just one or two planes isn't going to be much of a regional threat. You need a pretty fricking large air force to dominate another country and halt ground forces.
 
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