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(Yahoo)   Japan changing constitution to allow a military, meant to protect against imminent invasion of Godzilla's offspring   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 319
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18501 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Oct 2005 at 4:46 PM (8 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2005-10-30 05:47:40 PM
Data Pimp
OMG voice of reason!! can't have that now, can we?

NoImSpartacus

Thank you.
----------------------

I mean, hell, if the Japanese really wanted to take over America, they'd be making certain that we depend on them for all our electronic goodies and reliable autos, right?

right?
 
2005-10-30 05:48:02 PM
What they didn't tell us is that their military now will be composed of mechwarriors:



ZOMG DRACONIS COMBINE!!!
 
2005-10-30 05:48:53 PM



It's been 60 years. Time for another atrocity, eh daniel-san?
 
2005-10-30 05:49:30 PM
Good for them!
 
2005-10-30 05:49:45 PM
Mad_Flyer
They didn't even move toward Taiwan which is THEIRS

Like Tibet? There is no way in hell Taiwan will be assimulated into mainland China until the Chinese government undergoes major reforms, and that's exactly why they are prepping for war with Taiwan: they aren't willing to make those changes, and they don't want to wait to expand. Look at the Chinese since WW2: expansion by treaty, war, and proxy. And we're continuing to finance their oppression.

Our problem was Nixon was waaaaaaaaaay too optimistic about investment leading to democratic reform. Instead, it's fueled the war machine that has missles aimed at us, prevented economic collapse, and paid for all those shiny tanks that faced down students in 1989. China is a great example of US policy gone wrong: trading lower prices at Walmart for the continued oppression of billions of people.

Dealing financially with China has been about as wise as dealing financially with Nazi Germany pre-war. Fascist governments sitting on corrupt capitalist systems are damn, damn scarey things. (And seeing that's where our 2-party, $-motivated political system seems to be headed post-cold-war, the US definately needs some introspection as well.)

The Chinese behavior of late has lead them to interesting times. I guess they'll soon get to see if we're Dirty Harry or French.
 
2005-10-30 05:50:49 PM
hhmmm...well, lets just hope they learned their lesson...
 
2005-10-30 05:51:19 PM
Well I for one welcome our Japanese Overlords.
 
2005-10-30 05:53:31 PM
Corsair09: Japan has proven itself a remarkably dynamic and democratic nation. They have acheived everything the old militarist government wanted, via economic strength. And frankly, we could use another democratic nation stepping up to the plate to defend civilization.

And that is EXACTLY what wwe are fighting for.





And they're doing a real good job, too.
 
2005-10-30 05:54:04 PM
Plain Old Dave: The perfect answer to this is a resurrected SEATO of sorts, with Japan, India (yes, INDIA) and the Philippines as cornerstone players. In 25 years, India WILL be a superpower whether the West likes it or not. Right now, they have one of the largest armies in the world and a robust, growing economy. Seems like India is a nuclear power, as well... Japan obviously has the tech, and the PI is very US friendly and is centrally located for contingency ops in the entire Pacific region.

Good call
 
2005-10-30 05:54:36 PM
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Did I just read that the Liberal Democratic branch of govt wants a stronger military? I suppose when your neighbors are NK & China, & you're so close to the Middle East Liberalism holds a different meaning.
 
2005-10-30 05:55:40 PM
let's see, last time Japan had a standing army they were involved in a land grab for "natural resources" aka oil.

nah, I can't see Bush supporting them re-arming now.

goes against everything the man stands for.
 
2005-10-30 05:57:13 PM
Japan is essentially the Germany of Asia. And they havent been very contrite about the Second World War, at least not like the Germans. EVERYONE in Asia hates Japan. It's not just China and North Korea, but also South Koreans, Filipinos, Vietnamese, Indonesians, Malaysians, Thais, Singaporeans, etc. Even my Chinese-American roommates hate Japan. If they're going to do this, they have to do some serious image clean-up, like confront their past, apologize for their atrocities (which were at least as bad as the Germans'), and have Koizumi stop visiting that damn shrine.
 
2005-10-30 05:58:59 PM
Jlop985:
If they're going to do this, they have to do some serious image clean-up, like confront their past, apologize for their atrocities (which were at least as bad as the Germans'), and have Koizumi stop visiting that damn shrine.

we have a winner.
 
2005-10-30 05:59:08 PM
vgss
*Quirks eyebrow* I hope you aren't one of the people who brings up the whole "THAT WAS IN THE PAST! WE SHOULDN'T DWELL ON IT!" When people bring up all of the horrible, nasty, downright EVIL crap the US supported in South and CEntral America during the cold war.
 
2005-10-30 05:59:11 PM

dont tread on me hypocrites
 
2005-10-30 05:59:39 PM
Aww shiat.

 
2005-10-30 06:00:35 PM
birkin

but imposing a western-style government on another kind of culture, never works if it works, is a long tedious process that costs many lives and lots of money.
 
2005-10-30 06:01:46 PM
czarangelus

I was thinking the very same. Well played, sir.

/still looking to avenge ancestors killed by the Normans
 
2005-10-30 06:01:59 PM
I don't think the article did a good job of explaining exactly how much the Japanese citizenry likes that pacifist clause. I was in Nagoya when Koizumi sent 1000 Jeitai (national defense) troops to aid in Iraq, and it seemed like the whole of Honshuu went apeshiat. They were only distributing food and water and doing some basic rebuilding, but to hear the debates running 24 hours a day on NHK... christ, it was amazing.

Attitudes really HAVE changed in Japan, and those who don't see the pacifist clause as an international offering of genuine peaceful intent (albeit originally imposed upon them by the US, yes, I know) at least accept that with the clause in place, other nations keep them very far down on the list of "Guys Who Might Need an Asskicking Pretty Soon." (IE: No ball, no dodge.)

What I mean to say is, the standard Japanese citizen embraces that pacifist clause dearly (be it wise or unwise in today's global situation), and a proposed change like this so close to finalization is sure to kick up a storm across the islands.

(Dousurebaiideshouka?)
 
2005-10-30 06:02:00 PM
I don't see the big deal here. Is anyone really worried about Japan trying to attack another country again ? Seriously ?

If anything, I'd be more worried about our inffaliable U.S. sparking the next world war by invading countries arbitrarily. Since... you know... it's already happening.
 
2005-10-30 06:02:00 PM
Prowler8:

Thank you.... The three could handle just about anything in the reigon, just look at a map of Asia. Throw in a smattering of smaller powers and Australia if they were interested and you have a US-friendly bloc in Asia and the Pac that could fight the ChiComs to a standstill. India *alone* did it back in the 60s or 70s, I think....

The Dream Team:

Japan
South Korea
The Republic of the Philippines
Taiwan
Australia
India
Pakistan
 
2005-10-30 06:04:08 PM



Lest we forget.
 
2005-10-30 06:04:14 PM
 
2005-10-30 06:07:47 PM
we (the U.S.) have plenty to answer for right now in the "flexing our muscle's for freedom" arena, but no less of an authority than Churchill thought the Japanese were not much of a threat as late as Fall 1940.

/"The Nazi's? Oh yes, very quiet folks. Make a lot of cukcoo clocks, they do."
 
2005-10-30 06:08:17 PM
Stinky Cheese
You're forgetting that Japan already has a formidable military and would be a logistical nightmare for any country to invade.

Why invade when there are other ways to bleed the enemy dry? E.g. steal their natural gas fields, put fear and doubt into their markets, flood money into their organized crime, blockade a port or two at the right times; there's lots that a nuclear power like NK and China can do to a demilitarized Japan (seriously, their self defense forces are NOT going to stop a real military).

It all hinges on the question: would America being willing to sacrifice San Francisco for Tokyo? I don't blaim the Japanese if they don't want to make that bet.

Given the way we've gotten fat and happy on the dividends of "peace", post-cold-war, and given how crappy our diplomacy and posturing has been of late, I don't see how any ally could truly depend on us to go toe to toe with a nuclear power.

Again, we can't even stomach 3k citizens or 2k soldiers without getting so spastic that we seem like a dog chasing its tail.

(And I'm NOT for the War in Iraq nor the way we've handled the war on terror, in case I sound like a hawk.)
 
2005-10-30 06:08:33 PM
LemSkroob:

Don't think their ecomomy is as strong as it used to be. I remember there was the fear they would buy everything up in the world.. now it is not the case.
 
2005-10-30 06:09:28 PM
BobtheFascist: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Did I just read that the Liberal Democratic branch of govt wants a stronger military? I suppose when your neighbors are NK & China, & you're so close to the Middle East Liberalism holds a different meaning.

It's liberal in name only.
 
2005-10-30 06:09:46 PM
Jlop985, I agree with you on the shrine thing. That's just a slap in the face everytime he does it.

Not all of Asia hates Japan... it's more like all of Asia is rather uncomfortable having Japan around, considering what happened in the past and the failure of Japanese prime ministers and the Emperor to officially apologize for the military's actions.

/seriously debating whether or not loss of the pacifist clause would prompt the rest of Asia to step up, or to back down...?
 
2005-10-30 06:10:37 PM
BobtheFascist: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Did I just read that the Liberal Democratic branch of govt wants a stronger military? I suppose when your neighbors are NK & China, & you're so close to the Middle East Liberalism holds a different meaning.


A military used for defense. I realize that is probably a new concept for you guys.
 
2005-10-30 06:10:38 PM
I can't believe some people are whipping out photos of Pearl Harbor and the Rape of Nanking.
This is not a proprer argument against Japan having a military. I mean, if you're going to argue past atrocities, there isn't a nation on earth that doesn't have its share - we firebombed the holy shiat out of Dresden, and that was totally pointless. European nations wreaked holy hell in Africa every bit as nasty as what the Chinese did in China, and then there was what happened to the natives in north america.

Please understand I'm merely trying to argue for perspective.

Furthermore, Japan needs a military. North Korea isn't exactly friendly, and they've taken the liberty of lobbing a couple of warheads over Japan these last couple of years.

And, besides that, it might make China a little nervous, and I'm all for that. A nervous China is a less ballsy China.

AND - while I'm on the subject, although this is a little out of order, Pearl Harbor was not unprecipitated. When Pearl Harbor happened we had recently refused to trade oil with Japan, for all intrinsic purposes a declaration of war when we were willingly trading with the people we were at war against. We had our spheres of influence in China like all western nations, and Japan felt threatened by our hostility. In the minds of the Japanese military planners, Pearl Harbor was necessary because if they simply declared war we would have marched the whole pacific fleat out there and handed them their asses much quicker than we did. As it was, Pearl Harbor was effective, but in the longrun it didn't do them much good.
anyway - enough historical persepective (since it doesn't do a damn bit of good) I think this development is just fine, and I won't lost a bit of sleep.
 
2005-10-30 06:11:03 PM
Sad that Japan has chosen this route...but, it's their country. After 60 years, it ought to be their constitution as well.
 
2005-10-30 06:11:35 PM
Marshall Banana

Winner!
 
2005-10-30 06:11:46 PM
pardon me, willingly trading with the people they (Japan) were at war against.
 
2005-10-30 06:12:44 PM
Goodbye, peace dividend.
 
2005-10-30 06:13:16 PM
The funny thing is, Godzilla has always just been a Metaphor for America.
 
2005-10-30 06:13:56 PM
Data Pimp: Again, we can't even stomach 3k citizens or 2k soldiers without getting so spastic that we seem like a dog chasing its tail.


That doesn't have anything to do with us being pussies, it has to do with the war being one of choice, and not of defense. There wouldn't be a lot of support for invading Antarctica either.
 
2005-10-30 06:13:58 PM

You do realise that China only war is economic. They didn't even move toward Taiwan which is THEIRS


I think the Taiwanese might beg to differ.

 
2005-10-30 06:17:01 PM
Quex
interesting, I had no idea Japan had made such a turnaround. I knew after WW2 they were sick to death of war and angry at the people who had taken them there, but that they are that committed to it is news to me.
gold star for Japan.

(I still don't sweat them having a military)
 
2005-10-30 06:17:34 PM
is this part of Project for a New Japanese Century?
 
2005-10-30 06:21:42 PM
Tom Clancy, Debt of Honour, anyone?
 
2005-10-30 06:22:00 PM
Sarcasmo: If your answer is, "That's a great notion, but the world isn't ready for that and Japan needs to protect itself..." then what you're saying is that we can militarize the world into peacefulness. And you're a retard.


so the solution to preventing violence is to disarm and allow those who wish to attack us an easy target?

YOU are the retard
 
2005-10-30 06:22:16 PM
Japanese remilitarization has been an American agenda item for years now. This is just following the plan.
 
2005-10-30 06:22:31 PM
Duke Phillips' Singing Bears:

AND - while I'm on the subject, although this is a little out of order, Pearl Harbor was not unprecipitated. When Pearl Harbor happened we had recently refused to trade oil with Japan


An arguement in FAVOR of war for oil?!?!?! On FARK!?!?!?!

/I'm comin' to join you, elizabeth
//No really, Lamont, I am
/// gurgle . . .
 
2005-10-30 06:23:28 PM
I understand why Japan thought they had to go to war. They had/have limited resources and are very twitchy about it. The problem I have is the refusal to this day to acknolwedge any culpability in WWII and Hiroshima and Nagasaki. They are all about no nukes and with good reason, but completely ignore the causes.

/"The Japanese people will eat stones before an invasion"
 
2005-10-30 06:24:18 PM
 
2005-10-30 06:24:56 PM
QuesoDelicioso writes: I think the Taiwanese might beg to differ.

As a matter of policy, not so much. Taiwan has never declared independence from the mainland. And, the United States officially recognizes Taiwan as part of China -- which is why there is no US diplomatic representative in Taipei.
 
2005-10-30 06:26:44 PM
czarangelus Is that the battle of Hastings? Are you saying that Japan should re-militarize to combat Norman aggression. Sounds good to me.
 
2005-10-30 06:28:29 PM
You know, I could be wrong, but from the phrasing in the article, it sounds a lot like they proposed the exact same thing already there.
The JSDF can currently:
1. Build itself up for the defense of Japan
2. Come to the aid of international issues (such as flood relief, aid in the middle east, etc)

The article states that the JSDF will be able to:
1. Build itself up for the defense of Japan
2. Come to the aid of international issues (such as flood reliefe, aid in the middle east, etc)

Nothing new. Reading farther down, the article talks about adding on things like weakening the separation of church and state, and setting up a military court. IMHO, it sounds a lot like they're just passing the same thing again so it sounds good, with a way to explain Koizumi's shrine visit(s) and not apologize.

And, for those who say Japan should apologize, look at it this way: If a bully demands you apologize for tripping him earlier, what will happen? He'll beat the crap out of you anyway. Now, I'm not saying that the other asian countries are bullies, I'm just saying apologizing wouldn't help at this point. I can think of at least a few people in the Koreas and China who wouldn't be satisfied, even if every Japanese person licked their shoes.

The issue, I think, America needs to be looking at, is how can we back Japan without being sucked into the issue. Let's face it; something's going to happen, and something violent, within the next 10 years.
 
2005-10-30 06:28:34 PM

lest we forget

/new cliche! new cliche!
 
2005-10-30 06:28:56 PM


lest we forget
 
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