Manslaughter? It's just as likely to be heroism.

euthanasia > Slow painfull death

It's not rocket science people. Sometimes you have to make choices where your only two options suck. You have to choose the lesser of the sucky choices.

Crosshair: "euthanasia > Slow painfull death"

Of course.

But if someone can't end their life to avoid a slow painful death, why should they be able to end their life to avoid a slow painful death? If they can't do it for cancer, why should they be able to do it for dehydration?

I've heard they were contracted with an ambulance service that could have easily moved these people. If that is true, send them to PMITAP.

Just Ignorant: "My dad died of cancer, and he was ready to go for months."

Same with my grandfather.

ArbitraryConstant: If they can't do it for cancer, why should they be able to do it for dehydration?

The ailment isn't the point, the circumstances are. According to the article, the patients couldn't be moved. Would you rather they had been left to fester and rot away the remaining couple days of their lives in a flooded hospital that was unable to provide life support? Give me a needle full of Kevorkian's cocktail over that particular alternative any day.

This sounds like another situation of the media creating a story. Remember all the murders, rape gangs, etc etc in New Orleans? And how all of that was just rumors that turned out to be false?

Now one guy says he saw doctors with syringes, therefore they were killing people!!!! Yeah, imagine that...a doctor with a syringe.

A crime!! think of all the lost information that could have been collected while their old, information-packed brains deteriorated from dehydration and heat in a fit of babbling and dementia!!

Yeah, imagine that...a doctor with a syringe.

HaHaHa...

You've never worked in a hospital. MDs don't stick patients anymore, that is what nurses are for...

You can't have manslaughter without laughter.

They should be prosecuted for not doing it sooner.

I don't forsee any repercussions from the medical community on this.

In a post-Terry-Schiavo world...

There's no such thing as a mercy killing. Everybody must be made to live as long as possible by modern medicine. Anything else is un Godly.

(er, never mind that modern medicine plays God quite literally, keeping a body alive when it would ordinarily have died.)

If the person who was killed didn't request the killing, then it's murder, not manslaughter. If it were YOUR mother who was killed by these "doctors", you'd be screaming for blood.

Extraordinary circumstances call for extraordinary remedies. Then again, I'm from Oregon, where we are sensible and agree with Euthenasia.

Renowned transvestite sexologist

Given the circumstances, I would rather my mother die quickly and painlessly, than die slowly over a couple of days.

I can't wait for smoovement and company to step into this thread and explain to us why this is wrong. Let's not forget, this is the Democrats fault because the federal government is not supposed to look out for our private citizen's welfare and security.

WiccanThing

From what I understand to compare this with Oregon, just doesn't work. The people who were killed didn't ask the doctor to go to sleep peacefully, the doctors determined that they should die for their own good. "They needed killin" is not what Oregon signed up for.

If it is the case that doctors went around killing patients because "They were gonna die anyways", it's murder. The better alternative is to give them pain killers and let the die as peacefully as possible. Who knows maybe one person they killed might have survived. You can't make judgement like that for someone else. It's not the doctors choice to make.

The doctors had no right to do this.

We can put an animal to sleep to end its suffering, but if it is a person who has a terminal illness that we cannot cure, we can't allow them a dignified death. Instead, you must stay at the hospital, suffering and praying for death, until you bleed your families savings dry. Then you die a horrible death. Your grandchildren will be paying the bills.

Renowned transvestite sexologist,

Actually, I wasn't comparing Oregon's "Death with Dignity" statute to this situation. I was simply commenting that people in Oregon are reasonable in respect to Euthenasia.

As for it not being up to the doctor if these patients lived or died, I have to differ. The circumstances were such that these people would have died, if left in that hospital under those conditions. The doctor took an oath to "Do No Harm", which could be interpreted as "Don't Allow Those Folks To Suffer".

What would you have done in that situation? Someone had to do something, and this doctor stood up and did what was best for his patients, in his best medical judgement. I have no problem with it, given the circumstances.

WiccanThing

There is never going to be circumstance when someone is allowed to kill someone else without the person being killed requesting it. It's that simple. Look, this isn't about mercy. This isn't about "the roll of a doctor". This is about the nature of human will and the right to chose your own destiny. It will NEVER be my doctors decision as to whether I'm going to die a painful death, so they might as well kill ME for my own good. Sorry, Bzzzt, you lose that game doctor.

What would I have done? Drugged the people up so much, feeling pain wouldn't have been an issue and let nature take it's course.

Doctors should NEVER be allowed to make that decision. NEVER. If they do, regardless of their intent, they are murderer.

Renowned transvestite sexologist,

But if you drug the patients up so much that they feel no pain, isn't that very close to just plain Euthenising them outright? I believe you are walking a very thin line here.

That said, I do understand what your primary point is. Doctors should not have the power of life and death over their patients as a general rule. My point is that the circumstances in this situation were extraordinary, and as such, called for an extraordinary response. This also is walking a fine line, I know, but I do think the doctor should be held blameless in this.

Bottom line: The doctor did what they felt was best for the patients. At worst it was malpractice, but manslaughter? Not under the circumstances. Otherwise, they'd better be charging a whole lot of FEMA officials, due to their shoddy response to Katrina in the first place. Their inaction was much worse than this doctor's choice.

I would normally agree that people who choose to be euthanized should be allowed to choose a dignified death by peaceful injection. You own your body; it is not owned by an invisible man or the government.

However, if this horrific rumor turns out to be true, and no consent was gathered, then how is it not murder?

Otherwise, they'd better be charging a whole lot of FEMA officials, due to their shoddy response to Katrina in the first place.

If the New Orleans and Louisiana officials had been on the ball with contingency plans, they who were closest to and knew about this potential disaster for decades, then there wouldn't have been as much of an opportunity for FEMA to step in and look retarded as well.

WiccanThing

I'm sorry. It's not a general rule. The foundation of the medical profession is based off of trust. We trust our grandmothers, our fathers, our mates to these people. We trust that these people will not out right kill our wives or children. We trust that they are not murderers. There is nothing extradonary about this situation. Nothing at all.

Killing a human being is a last resort measure. It is something that is done when there are not more option, not when you're too lazy to exercise options. We "can't" move them, well might as well kill them. No sorry, bzzt, wrong doctor. Pick that farker up and carry him over your shoulder if you have to. You have NO right kill that person. None. Noone does. It's not YOUR choice WicccanThing, it's not my choice, it's not the doctors choice.

Death is a deeply personal experience, something that is best left between a person and their God(s) (or lack thereof for that matter), doctors have no right to exercise any level of control over it. NEVER. Not even in New Orleans during one of the worst national disasters to strike the United States.

Isn't life really just a "long" slow painful death?

/got nuthin'

With consent = Hero, without consent = manslaughter... but i'll guess we'll never know.

My friend's Dad died of cancer and was in agony all day every day, one time at the hospital my friend said his dad grabbed a doctors coat and yelled "Just kill me, kill me, if you wont give me the farking pills and Ill do it, turn of the machines, you're torturing me, I want to die" they never did... he died five months later in excruciating agony and had gotten to the point where he couldnt talk let alone move, he was a living corpse, who could barely roll his eyes from side to side. Kept alive against his will...

Oh the humanity.

Renowned transvestite sexologist,

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this. I'm not saying the doctor was a hero, but I also wouldn't be pressing the issue if it had been my mom or dad getting put to sleep in that hospital, if indeed that is what happened. It is possible that the doctor only administered pain killers to the patients, as you suggested as a viable option earlier, isn't it?

Just Ignorant: My dad died of cancer, and he was ready to go for months.

Happened the same way with my uncle. Real dignified death there.

I tend to agree with Wiccan Thing

Article saying that this was made up or exagreted in 3... 2... 1...

Renowned transvestite sexologist: There is never going to be circumstance when someone is allowed to kill someone else without the person being killed requesting it.



Better check again, dude.

The state does it all the time in murder cases.

As a Christian conservative, I have to admit, this is NOT what Jesus would have done. WWJD? Heal them, of course.

Doc, do your duty. If everyone had failed to do their sworn duty during the post-hurricane fiasco many more people would have died.

/n-th degree sarcasm. There should be immunity for all debatable acts committed during that time. Heck, we already forgave BushCo for drinking himself to paralysis and letting 1000's die or suffer.

"Pick that farker up and carry him over your shoulder if you have to."

IIRC these were critical patients who couldn't be moved...and there wasn't anyplace to move them to.

Remember the doc in the opening beach scene in Saving Private Ryan? I liken the NO situation to battlefield triage, where ya gotta make hard choices, and focus on the patients that might live.

Start charging docs with murder for making tough choices, expect to have fewer doctors.

I could see a handful of people giving consent,, but, 45.
Not likely.

i foresee a very long thread coming.

You know, I submitted this back when it was first reported and it never made the front page.

Asshats.

Abagadro

"I've heard they were contracted with an ambulance service that could have easily moved these people. If that is true, send them to PMITAP."

That plan fell apart within the first few hours is my undertanding.

charge FEMA with man slaughter...not the hospital employees

Killing probably-unconscious patients to "save them from pain" == murder...it's not like they're going to be able to feel pain while unconscious anyway, so let nature take its course (some may have lived).

disclaimer: if you have proof of consent (not just from relatives, but from the person), then it may be allowable.

If only they had told Bush about this sooner. He would have activated National Guard to rescue these patients quicker than you can say "Terri Schiavo ended my vacation", quicker than you can say "you don't need to wait for local authorities during a federal emergency", quicker than you can say "let's not play the blame game".

Renowned transvestite sexologist

We "can't" move them, well might as well kill them.

No. Sometimes patients can't be move by other means. They need a ambulance etc. Who gets to decide who gets left behind and who doesn't? I guess killing them on your back is better than killing them on their beds.

If Jesus wanted them to live they would be alive. The people that euthanized them were doing gods work. Done and done. Next issue.