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(Some Union Guy)   Joe Six-Pack Laborer = 50 percent pay cut. Executive = 50 percent -- plus bonus, stock options and a salary increase   (today.reuters.com ) divider line
    More: Asinine  
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28325 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Oct 2005 at 6:53 AM (10 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



563 Comments   (+0 »)

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2005-10-10 08:49:41 PM  
Corporate executives make waay too much money. Even when they screw up.
 
2005-10-10 08:54:22 PM  
Without the workers the exec's wouldn't be worth much would they?
 
2005-10-10 09:00:27 PM  
I'm just drumming my fingers until someone rushes in here to justify CEO salaries and benefits and severance packages.
 
2005-10-10 09:03:19 PM  
I hate CEO salaries, I really do, but CEOs aren't as replaceable as labourers.

I still hate CEO salaries.
 
2005-10-10 09:09:57 PM  
Scum.
 
2005-10-10 09:20:28 PM  
Proof that the Republican's master economic plan is working. Make the upperclass richer while making the lower and middle classes poorer.

[image from lonbud.com too old to be available]
 
2005-10-10 09:35:58 PM  
dustman81, It is standard practice to give the execs a "please don't jump ship" bonus when a company files for chapter 11. This is to give the impression to a potential investor that the upper brass still believe that the company is salvageable.

This was happening way before Bush got in the Oval Office, and GASP!!! it even happens in other countries. Please blame Bush for the things that are really his fault, like global warming and hurricanes.
 
2005-10-10 09:43:08 PM  
GavinTheAlmighty: CEOs aren't as replaceable as labourers.

Proof plz.
 
2005-10-10 09:51:36 PM  
Flab

Please blame Bush for the things that are really his fault, like global warming and hurricanes.

Doing my part to hobble this meme, no one has ever blamed Bush for a hurricane.
 
2005-10-10 09:54:57 PM  
hitching, It's called sarcasm.
 
2005-10-10 09:59:17 PM  
Flab
hitching, It's called sarcasm.

Yeah, weren't you saying that those things were not his fault, while lampooning those silly leftists who blame him for hurricanes? That's how it came across.

And, Flab, it's called "hitchking" ;)
 
2005-10-10 10:00:41 PM  
I would like to see laws passed making mandatory a "scale of 20" rule for determining pay. As in, the highest-paid executive of any corporation can not earn more than 20 times what the lowest-paid employee receives. International employees included. It leaves plenty of room for variations all along the pay scales, forces companies to pay their workers fair salaries, cuts way back on asshat corporations breaking the backs of American workers by offshoring manufacturing jobs, and removes the ridiculous "emperor CEO" class we've allowed to form in this nation.
 
2005-10-10 10:05:45 PM  
To be somewhat fair, when many of the pension packages that were agreed to that are causing many of these problems were designed in the late sixties based on the assumption of a continuously expanding market which obviously doesn't exist today. That said, if I purchase an expensive car assuming that my salary will expand continuously and it doesn't, does that relieve my from my responsibility? No. I buck up, give up some other luxuries and meet my end of the bargain.

However, the utter disregard for working Americans is dispicable. The quest for cheap labor to improve the bottom line can, ultimately, only harm the US economy. When the middle class becomes diminished by this practice, the number of people that can afford the goods and services that the CEO's rely on for their gargantuan salaries is significantly reduced. Of course, by then it won't matter because they've already made their fortune.

/end rant
 
2005-10-10 10:07:33 PM  
very sorry about the typo in your name, hitchking, I guess my touch typing is affected by all that turkey and mashed potatoes.
 
2005-10-10 10:10:28 PM  
Seriously, isn't the main qualification for being a CEO knowing the right people? It's not like they have any skills.

/n. dynamite
 
2005-10-10 10:14:21 PM  
Bush didn't cause the hurricane. It was Rove.

and once, just once, I'd like to see the management get a paycut and the employees get a bonus.
 
2005-10-10 10:17:14 PM  
lol

http://www.xs4all.nl/~erkooi/YL/pictpage.htm

Can someone post this image?

Most of these douchebags have sat at my bar one time or another. They spend 99% of their time figuring out how to outdo someone on a personal level rather than on worrying about the corporation.

Microsoft was once innovative. After the money flowed in and the stockholders demanded constant and predictable results they went from innovative to lame. The whole political level corporatocracy and business models instead of fostering innovation and encouraging people to do wacky and crazy things to come up with new products.

Most of these guys are arseholes. Stockholders (including myself) just have to hold fast that the facade will last another decade or two, or 20...

Don't give me that "we need to retain competant personnel so that we can salvage the company" bullshiat. Sell that to a moron who doesn't know you simply move people up the ladder to replace the detritus who jump ship and DON'T cost the company this much money.

185,000 people? They can replace these incompetant folsnot reward them for bankruptcy. From WITHIN the company. Shock/horror.
 
2005-10-10 10:30:19 PM  
trapped-in-CH and once, just once, I'd like to see the management get a paycut and the employees get a bonus.

AHAHAHAHAA! Wait, you weren't joking?

This whole delphi shiat is getting incredibly bad press in Detroit/Michigan. Utter crap. Delphi wants the union workers to go from an Average of $23.xx an hour to around $11 an hour.

Being an anti-union person, I still find the whole debacle despicable.

/workers for both Visteon and Delphi should have taken a small pay-cut 5 years ago anyways.
//after the salaried took an equal one, and upper-management took one that's double that.
 
2005-10-10 10:31:34 PM  
disgruntella: Seriously, isn't the main qualification for being a CEO knowing the right people? It's not like they have any skills.


Nonsense! They are tireless backstabbers and self-promoters.
 
2005-10-10 10:31:49 PM  
Delphi's key employee compensation plan, which requires court approval, also provides for annual cash bonuses to encourage executives to stay through its restructuring, which it plans to complete by mid-2007, Delphi said in court papers

I would have no problem with this as long as they tacked on a little rider: Executives must stay with the company for a minimum of 24 months in order to recieve their increased benefits. They must also be able to report to shareholders and to their executive board that they have improved company performance and raised shareholder stock prices by a minimum of 5% at the end of the 24 month performance period. Should they fail to do so, they forfeit any and all compensation and bonuses and are subject to immediate termination with no prejudice.

In other words - either they fix the company or they get nothing and someone else gets their job. I have no problem with rewarding talent at any level in a company. What I cannot tolerate is rewarding asshattery in the board room and people who get huge financial bonuses for running a company into the ground.
 
2005-10-10 10:36:55 PM  
Hey, it's capitalism -- suck it up!

/-:
 
2005-10-10 10:46:23 PM  
And anyone that complains about $23/hr has probably never worked on an assembly line or pulled 600+ pair cable through underground conduit in 100 degree heat.

Good thoughts, Weaver.
 
2005-10-10 11:10:42 PM  
2wheeljunkie

And anyone that complains about $23/hr has probably never worked on an assembly line or pulled 600+ pair cable through underground conduit in 100 degree heat.

You got $23/hr? Must not be a non-union state like Florida.

Ditto on the good thoughts, Weaver95. Making CEO bonuses conditional sounds better.
 
2005-10-10 11:28:24 PM  
Hate The Man.
Fight The Man.

Homie don't do that.
 
2005-10-10 11:52:38 PM  
[image from img443.imageshack.us too old to be available]

When you complain about wages the terrorists win. Corporate executives uber alles.
 
2005-10-11 12:14:30 AM  
I really can't wait for the scumbags like these people get lynched by a mob of 9-5'ers who lost everything.

Why doesn't that happen more often?
 
2005-10-11 01:29:56 AM  
GavinTheAlmighty: I hate CEO salaries, I really do, but CEOs aren't as replaceable as labourers.

Yes, they are.

They simply aren't as replaced as labourers. Croneyism (sp?), namely the incestuous board relations among companies, ensures that executives are always protected.

Anyone who is halfway intelligent and has a decent education in business can fill an executive position within a company. The trick is being lucky enough to make it to those echelons. Once you're up there, it's damn near impossible to fark up bad enough to come down.

Note that this doesn't apply to all companies. There are plenty of companies who truly do hire the most competent individuals to fill executive positions and who pay them fair wages for their labor.
 
2005-10-11 01:51:04 AM  
Just before the mechanics' union strike, Northwest executives gave themselves a nice bonus for running the company into the ground. They then asked the mechanics to take a pay cut, as well as a few thousand layoffs.

This sort of thing is the reason why we have a disappearing middle-class in this country. The people who are actually working their asses off every day are continually asked to take cuts, while management continually skims more off the top of their profits.
 
2005-10-11 04:27:05 AM  
Speaking of rich getting richer, that 33 cents a share is looking like a good speculative buy right about now.
 
2005-10-11 06:59:39 AM  
GavinTheAlmighty: I hate CEO salaries, I really do, but CEOs aren't as replaceable as labourers.

Can't you get some cheap CEOs from India?
 
2005-10-11 07:00:33 AM  
GWShenlong05: I'm just drumming my fingers until someone rushes in here to justify CEO salaries and benefits and severance packages.

You didn't have to wait long, now did you?
 
2005-10-11 07:02:57 AM  
Most of the working-class people who love the idea of Capitalism do so because they have a poor understanding of what makes Capitalism function.

Capitalists don't get rich or succeed by working hard. They prosper by owning and selling the work of other people. Thus, in order for Capitalism to function at all, there must always be a large group of people who serve as the engine for the Capitalist system, while never reaping many of its benefits.

If you don't mind spending your life working for someone else's edification, or don't mind using other people as fodder for your work engine, then certainly you should extol the virtues of that system. Otherwise, you might consider that some other system might be a more humane approach to keeping people moving forward as a culture.
 
2005-10-11 07:05:38 AM  
23 Enigma

Ahh, I see. You're one of the working-class who hate the idea of capitalism and do so because you have a poor understanding of capitalism.
 
2005-10-11 07:06:48 AM  
skithaus
GavinTheAlmighty: I hate CEO salaries, I really do, but CEOs aren't as replaceable as labourers.

Can't you get some cheap CEOs from India?


Your ideas interest me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter...
 
2005-10-11 07:07:50 AM  
Joe Six-pack laborer=50 percent pay cut. Executive=50 percent+ bonus, stock options and a salary increase

Yes, and...? It's called trickle-down. You folks wanted this, so why not go back to you Bible and pray some more?
 
2005-10-11 07:09:00 AM  
It's not CEO salaries as such that are the problem, it's when corrupt or underhand methods are used to artificially inflate them. If a person's work adds $X*100 million to the company's profits, there is no reason they shouldn't get $X million/year. Saying "what about the poor people" or "it's unfair" just because one person can do work worth millions while another can only do work worth thousands doesn't make earning millions inherently wrong.
 
2005-10-11 07:11:26 AM  
I liked Weaver's ideas about making these insane bonuses conditional; anything to bring back some rationality. But really, when you're best buddies with the board, what's the motivation? The barbarians are already inside the gates, making off with whatever they can finesse by the stockholders.

It's unsustainable, and the next 20 years are going to be very interesting. I can't tell if the current right-wing crazyness is gonna just accelerate us into a right-wing police state, or if there's gonna be a backlash that makes us as socialized as Sweden, but less nice about it.

I do kinda like the idea of the scale of 20, but I'd even go that an executive could earn 1000 times an employee. It's still a pay cut for a lot of these guys. And that's just sick. Look at how DamierChrysler had problems when they merged, because of the differences in executive salaries. In Europe, these exorbitant executive salaries are seen as exploitative. Over here, fark it, as long as the next episode of "The Simple Life" is still coming out.
 
2005-10-11 07:12:33 AM  
23 Enigma - You hit the nail on the head.

mugen. - Winter's coming. Please report to a barn to be sheared.
 
2005-10-11 07:14:56 AM  
For those of you in California...

NO ON 75!!!
 
2005-10-11 07:16:38 AM  
Also, allow me to point out my favorite line....

"promising substantial U.S. job and plant cuts after failing to obtain wage and benefit concessions from the United Auto Workers..."

For those who don't know, unions are pricing their labor out of the competition. More and more manufacturing jobs keep leaving heavily unionized states, while what new manufacturing jobs are created, they are created mainly in the Southeast US, where the workforce is largely non-union.

The unions were a good idea once. But now, they force the management to pay $25/hr to people who clean the bathroooms and sweep the floor. Personally, I'd rather let management pay $6-$10/hr for those jobs, and actually stay in business.
 
2005-10-11 07:16:52 AM  
[image from morbid-curiosity.com too old to be available]

Unavailable for comment
 
2005-10-11 07:18:13 AM  
shiat, I never thought I'd agree with Weaver on something.
 
2005-10-11 07:19:12 AM  
disgruntella: GavinTheAlmighty: CEOs aren't as replaceable as labourers.

Proof plz.


Stop being a moran
 
2005-10-11 07:19:30 AM  
ComicBookGuy

Sure, right after I finish my masters in finance ya farkin douche. Get a clue and stop gushing mental diarrhoea until you have even the faintest idea what you're talking about.

/hurrah for populism
 
2005-10-11 07:21:02 AM  
mugen. Sure, right after I finish my masters in finance ya farkin douche.

No-one cares.
 
2005-10-11 07:22:22 AM  
23 Enigma <- look, a real, live Marxist in the wild. Quick, someone take a photo or no one will believe we really saw one.
 
2005-10-11 07:24:06 AM  
hitchking , no one has ever blamed Bush for a hurricane.

You should spend 30 seconds on google before you make a post like that.
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0%2C1518%2C372179%2C00.h​tml

"The Bush government rejects international climate protection goals by insisting that imposing them would negatively impact the American economy. The American president is closing his eyes to the economic and human costs his land and the world economy are suffering under natural catastrophes like Katrina and because of neglected environmental policies." -- Germany's Environmental Minister, Jrgen Trittin

emphasis mine.

bottom line: why did Katrina happen? because of (bush's) neglected environmental policies. At least, that's what this guy thinks.
 
2005-10-11 07:24:16 AM  
spamdog

Yeah evidently. Where would American politics and Fark be if people were actually expected to have some understanding of the topic at hand?

/tumbleweeds roll by
 
2005-10-11 07:24:55 AM  
Yes, I bought October 5 puts on Friday and sold them for a quick 5% gain. I suppose this makes me part of the Corporate Overclass.

As long as the working man can live under the delusion that he or his children can become part of an infinitely large CEO class, this will be tolerated by Americans.

I still don't understand, though, why these wanna-be CEOs grouse about line workers wanting a living wage. Yea, for the path to true prosperity lies along the road of ever-lowering wages. If all workers would merely make $10 an hour, then surely real estate and stock prices would rise endlessly.

I like weaver95 and his ideas (for once), although raising a stock price 5% from 35c is rather easy IMO. Many of the more honest believers in capitalism are having a hard time understanding that today's capitalism is not about shareholders, but rather about enriching management at the expense of potential customers, while the institutions we hope would prevent such abuses lie asleep at the switch.

Every penny cut from the Delphi workers' pay packets is a penny taken out of local and national merchants' pockets, the local housing market, and a small amount of stock and savings are lost. How, might I ask, is this a Good Thing for America? How long will we drink the Free Trade Kool Aid?

Shawn Pickrell
Steward-in-Training
CWA Local #32035
 
2005-10-11 07:25:48 AM  
Personally, I like the CEO a U.S. financial company recently hired, who worked a $32 million no-fault walk-away clause into his contract.

Two days in to the new job...he walked.
 
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